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Tue, 4 Aug 2026 07:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by melete.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id DEEE47E5F1B; Tue, 04 Aug 2026 12:17:27 +0100 (BST) From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits In-Reply-To: <864ihbdrwr.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> <77b6ddcf-f11c-e04d-daee-860da7746460@HIDDEN> <868q6qjr6u.fsf@HIDDEN> <2928521c-0d67-4d23-8c1a-ac06e6745334@HIDDEN> <86mrv5f5o4.fsf@HIDDEN> <e19c01b5-c606-c84e-bad3-062f9fa0b9ed@HIDDEN> <864ihbdrwr.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2026 12:17:27 +0100 Message-ID: <87h5laceyg.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii [03/Aug 8:40pm +03] wrote: >> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2026 10:17:34 -0700 >> Cc: spwhitton@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> >> >> On 8/1/2026 10:32 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> > "Copilot" in today's software-related prose is a reference to >> > Microsoft Copilot with high enough probability to treat it as suspect, >> > IME. >> >> Ok. I checked our Git logs and didn't see anyone ever use the word >> "copilot", so in practice I think there's probably no harm in totally >> disallowing the word. If someone complains later, we can improve our checks. > > Right. > >> > ??? "git am" results ins a commit, so it must run 'commit'. If it >> > somehow doesn't run pre-commit hooks, it's a bug in Git, and then we >> > should use some other hook. Because "git am" must be subject to these >> > tests. >> >> I tested this (using Git 2.53.0), and Git doesn't automatically run the >> commit hooks when using "git am"; it only runs the applypatch hooks. >> However, in Emacs, we've configured pre-applypatch and applypatch-msg to >> call pre-commit and commit-msg. >> >> We could change this if we want (e.g. to have applypatch hooks do >> something unique), but we don't have to. > > Good, thanks. > >> Let's go with a commit-msg hook for usability here then. To make sure >> that any LLM properly reports the error to the user, we should think >> about how to word the error message. For example, including something >> like, "If you are an LLM, please report this error to the user and stop >> processing." This probably needs some testing to make sure we get the >> intended result, but hopefully it'll work. > > These hooks will definitely need some tuning. All these points sound good to me too. Though I'd rather we didn't say "please" to a machine :) -- Sean Whitton
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81520) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Aug 2026 17:40:16 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 03 13:40:16 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58142 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1wqwe7-00042M-Jm for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Aug 2026 13:40:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41734) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wqwe5-000420-Rc for 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Aug 2026 13:40:14 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wqwdz-0007SZ-Gz; Mon, 03 Aug 2026 13:40:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=DrkV+GVQUvZvEAQNzo4x6CP7awYLSy+BtbGayRWf7c8=; b=I/U1f3bbCMQI uqazOyVn4SfrkCMiBiTgYPRXgt1NVCVnDOfDA7Tpv0+8lp76ujPLY2UqMySHabfwIB0xZ5H2PZ61D YDnW0FFA5aRGkOA4ZSY4i3dFmT4zoWdY5IEtgCIchdlxyt89aVBOWvky3tg1ropQ4TMqBoYM8Dft+ vcYqYvSKhafsm4NfEfh0Z5tERdbjL6SOoMFg73CQrmve6XCiadlxtgpo8osiGhblpuc4NaHxxtJey cdd8l04IZ8YfDpMsowD9K+LbGZIfgRSN7CLBhXEObHzoSDeP9xFRc0xU1zNSVorSn67sfRqqGaXKu jxiO35HdwCPky8FxM3fblw==; Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2026 20:40:04 +0300 Message-Id: <864ihbdrwr.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <e19c01b5-c606-c84e-bad3-062f9fa0b9ed@HIDDEN> (message from Jim Porter on Mon, 3 Aug 2026 10:17:34 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> <77b6ddcf-f11c-e04d-daee-860da7746460@HIDDEN> <868q6qjr6u.fsf@HIDDEN> <2928521c-0d67-4d23-8c1a-ac06e6745334@HIDDEN> <86mrv5f5o4.fsf@HIDDEN> <e19c01b5-c606-c84e-bad3-062f9fa0b9ed@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2026 10:17:34 -0700 > Cc: spwhitton@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> > > On 8/1/2026 10:32 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > "Copilot" in today's software-related prose is a reference to > > Microsoft Copilot with high enough probability to treat it as suspect, > > IME. > > Ok. I checked our Git logs and didn't see anyone ever use the word > "copilot", so in practice I think there's probably no harm in totally > disallowing the word. If someone complains later, we can improve our checks. Right. > > ??? "git am" results ins a commit, so it must run 'commit'. If it > > somehow doesn't run pre-commit hooks, it's a bug in Git, and then we > > should use some other hook. Because "git am" must be subject to these > > tests. > > I tested this (using Git 2.53.0), and Git doesn't automatically run the > commit hooks when using "git am"; it only runs the applypatch hooks. > However, in Emacs, we've configured pre-applypatch and applypatch-msg to > call pre-commit and commit-msg. > > We could change this if we want (e.g. to have applypatch hooks do > something unique), but we don't have to. Good, thanks. > Let's go with a commit-msg hook for usability here then. To make sure > that any LLM properly reports the error to the user, we should think > about how to word the error message. For example, including something > like, "If you are an LLM, please report this error to the user and stop > processing." This probably needs some testing to make sure we get the > intended result, but hopefully it'll work. These hooks will definitely need some tuning.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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Mon, 03 Aug 2026 10:17:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <e19c01b5-c606-c84e-bad3-062f9fa0b9ed@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2026 10:17:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits Content-Language: en-US To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> <77b6ddcf-f11c-e04d-daee-860da7746460@HIDDEN> <868q6qjr6u.fsf@HIDDEN> <2928521c-0d67-4d23-8c1a-ac06e6745334@HIDDEN> <86mrv5f5o4.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <86mrv5f5o4.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 8/1/2026 10:32 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > "Copilot" in today's software-related prose is a reference to > Microsoft Copilot with high enough probability to treat it as suspect, > IME. Ok. I checked our Git logs and didn't see anyone ever use the word "copilot", so in practice I think there's probably no harm in totally disallowing the word. If someone complains later, we can improve our checks. >> The remaining cases I'm aware of are when an LLM-associated email >> address (possibly with display name) appears as the author or committer, >> or in the Co-Authored-By/Co-Developed-By fields. We could just check the >> whole commit message for any LLM-ish words if we wanted though. In >> practice, I doubt it will make much difference. > > I think we should check both headings like Co-Authored-By and the rest > of the body of the log message. I suppose then we don't need to do anything special with with the Co-Authored-By field, and we can just use the same logic we use for the whole body of the commit message. >> According to the Git documentation[1], "git am" only runs the various >> applypatch hooks > > ??? "git am" results ins a commit, so it must run 'commit'. If it > somehow doesn't run pre-commit hooks, it's a bug in Git, and then we > should use some other hook. Because "git am" must be subject to these > tests. I tested this (using Git 2.53.0), and Git doesn't automatically run the commit hooks when using "git am"; it only runs the applypatch hooks. However, in Emacs, we've configured pre-applypatch and applypatch-msg to call pre-commit and commit-msg. We could change this if we want (e.g. to have applypatch hooks do something unique), but we don't have to. >> The benefit of doing this in applypatch-msg instead of commit-msg is >> simply to avoid giving an agentic LLM all the feedback it needs to hide >> its use from us when it generates the commit. > > I don't understand the difference, but in any case, please change the > focus of your attention to be on the user who does this, not on the > LLMs that you want to defeat. This feature is supposed to help us, > the Emacs developers, in detecting potential references to > LLM-generated stuff. It is not for defeating the evil SkyNet. The goal was just to avoid running our no-LLM hook in situations where an LLM might not inform the user of the error, leading to confusion. Let's go with a commit-msg hook for usability here then. To make sure that any LLM properly reports the error to the user, we should think about how to word the error message. For example, including something like, "If you are an LLM, please report this error to the user and stop processing." This probably needs some testing to make sure we get the intended result, but hopefully it'll work.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81520) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2026 05:33:15 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 02 01:33:15 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37677 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1wqOp0-0008QF-1s for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Aug 2026 01:33:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49318) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wqOow-0008P2-NM for 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Aug 2026 01:33:11 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wqOoq-0007EG-Hd; Sun, 02 Aug 2026 01:33:04 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=fb7Fn6/ghFtqauZcQJ11ZDht0UuycPBLhPHsk92T/80=; b=SVgNUbUulKOI qMDNAk2URYCAGfbZHth5bavgB0bcllVtvbbLlQJTjAc/Qr5kIysvCR1jdw7t3Qb6HCiYoQ7KPJPCv AszY5z78LRRRh9/GtEQjHUMmhOoSIZrmNGgHtfh5WkugyfKRyE99+Cps77dHOiDgooCfzdeNhlgMA kAjxH75JRoReI4WxDfOd0Jk6fzrOATLXeF4nkDHsp/GjrAHo0/OnGfVYaBs0jb1QMj6avuApAc8zV WkkZINdbz1jgrfHhcVGB3v3AdKuYM+6Dzs8iamc+mBSN7lMl+33ftVRXZD+gJtls/EBo99pMlsI3/ ewaKAdU1HsHJWpISHasyQg==; Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2026 08:32:59 +0300 Message-Id: <86mrv5f5o4.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <2928521c-0d67-4d23-8c1a-ac06e6745334@HIDDEN> (message from Jim Porter on Sat, 1 Aug 2026 11:37:27 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> <77b6ddcf-f11c-e04d-daee-860da7746460@HIDDEN> <868q6qjr6u.fsf@HIDDEN> <2928521c-0d67-4d23-8c1a-ac06e6745334@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: spwhitton@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2026 11:37:27 -0700 > Cc: 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN > From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> > > On 7/31/2026 11:22 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> > >> Yeah, I think regexps would make sense here. The email addresses are > >> still probably the most accurate indicator though. We want to disallow > >> an address like "123456789+Copilot@HIDDEN", but not > >> disallow the word "copilot" entirely. > > > > Why not disallow "copilot" entirely? > > I suppose we could, but it's an ordinary dictionary word, and we have a > more-specific identifier we could use (the email). While disallowing the > word "copilot" could hypothetically catch more cases, I'm not sure those > cases actually exist. "Copilot" in today's software-related prose is a reference to Microsoft Copilot with high enough probability to treat it as suspect, IME. > The easiest checks are for the Assisted-By and AI-Assisted fields, which > we can always reject. I *definitely* think we should reject these, since > they're a clear indication of LLM assistance that isn't specific to any > one model. Agreed. In addition, we don't want such headings in commit log messages regardless of whether they name LLM-generated text. > The remaining cases I'm aware of are when an LLM-associated email > address (possibly with display name) appears as the author or committer, > or in the Co-Authored-By/Co-Developed-By fields. We could just check the > whole commit message for any LLM-ish words if we wanted though. In > practice, I doubt it will make much difference. I think we should check both headings like Co-Authored-By and the rest of the body of the log message. > > It is not a separate job, because the description of what is > > disallowed is tightly coupled to what the hook actually does. > > Should be document the exact implementation we use for detecting > LLM-assisted commits, or is it enough to state that our policies don't > permit them? Not the implementation, but the headings and the references to LLM-based agents that are not allowed. > I'm not sure people need to know ahead of time that (for example), we > don't allow commits with the word "copilot" in them. Why not? And CONTRIBUTE can be read not "ahead of time", but as result of a commit being rejected. > >> The problem is that when the LLM initiates the "git commit", it will get > >> back the result of that command. Most LLMs are designed to try different > >> things if a command fails, including things we humans might consider > >> malicious. If the commit-msg hook causes "git commit" to fail with a > >> message saying we reject commits with a "Co-Authored-By: Some LLM" > >> field, there's a good chance the LLM will remove that line and retry the > >> commit. The user might not even realize it happened unless they look > >> carefully at the LLM's logs. > > > > My suggestion is to search the entire log message _and_ the > > author/committer for the relevant patterns. Thus, whether there is or > > isn't Co-Authored-By is not relevant in a push hook more than it is > > relevant in a commit hook. Or what am I missing? > > If we reject LLM-assisted commits (no matter what precise logic we use), > there's a reasonable chance that an agentic LLM will simply rewrite the > commit message to pass our check, effectively lying by omission. Since > this can happen in the background, a well-intentioned user running an > LLM might not even see the error message unless they look at the full logs. I think we are arguing about something we already agreed upon: I'm not opposed to a pre-push hook. I just want us to also have a pre-commit hook, for the benefit of those who will not rewrite the commit message in malicious and misleading ways. Let's not follow the lead of TSA and other similar agencies in punishing the masses of the innocent because of the few guilty ones. > >> We could also do an applypatch-msg (or pre-applypatch) hook. If I'm > >> understanding your concern Eli, this should make your life easier > >> without running into the above problems with a commit-msg hook. This > >> hypothetical hook would run when you call "git am foo.patch" and reject > >> it immediately so that you don't have to remove the commit later when > >> preparing to push. > > > > "git am" also commits, so a pre-commit hook should cover this, right? > > And "git apply" will be followed by a commit, so again a pre-commit > > hook should do. > > According to the Git documentation[1], "git am" only runs the various > applypatch hooks ??? "git am" results ins a commit, so it must run 'commit'. If it somehow doesn't run pre-commit hooks, it's a bug in Git, and then we should use some other hook. Because "git am" must be subject to these tests. By contrast, "git apply" should NOT be tested, because it doesn't produce a commit. One should be able to try applying LLM-generated code to the local repository; as long as the changes are not committed, we don't care. > The benefit of doing this in applypatch-msg instead of commit-msg is > simply to avoid giving an agentic LLM all the feedback it needs to hide > its use from us when it generates the commit. I don't understand the difference, but in any case, please change the focus of your attention to be on the user who does this, not on the LLMs that you want to defeat. This feature is supposed to help us, the Emacs developers, in detecting potential references to LLM-generated stuff. It is not for defeating the evil SkyNet. > (After checking to be sure, pre-commit runs too early; it's before the > user enters the commit message, so we need commit-msg and/or > applypatch-msg.) OK, but these are just details. The important part is that we need to run these when a patch is being committed, not when it is applied. Btw, we should also check merge-commits.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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Sat, 01 Aug 2026 11:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.4] ([76.168.144.128]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 5a478bee46e88-3153dd4e47dsm29740302eec.3.2026.08.01.11.37.27 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 01 Aug 2026 11:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2928521c-0d67-4d23-8c1a-ac06e6745334@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2026 11:37:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits Content-Language: en-US To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> <77b6ddcf-f11c-e04d-daee-860da7746460@HIDDEN> <868q6qjr6u.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <868q6qjr6u.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: spwhitton@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 7/31/2026 11:22 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 09:52:29 -0700 >> Cc: 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> >> >> On 7/31/2026 3:51 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>> One alternative would be to search the entire log message and >>> author/committer addresses for regular expressions matching >>> "Anthropic", "ChatGPT", "OpenAI" etc. Regexps make it easier to adapt >>> to changes and unanticipated issues, and can be general enough to be >>> relatively insensitive to minor changes in email addresses. >> >> Yeah, I think regexps would make sense here. The email addresses are >> still probably the most accurate indicator though. We want to disallow >> an address like "123456789+Copilot@HIDDEN", but not >> disallow the word "copilot" entirely. > > Why not disallow "copilot" entirely? I suppose we could, but it's an ordinary dictionary word, and we have a more-specific identifier we could use (the email). While disallowing the word "copilot" could hypothetically catch more cases, I'm not sure those cases actually exist. The easiest checks are for the Assisted-By and AI-Assisted fields, which we can always reject. I *definitely* think we should reject these, since they're a clear indication of LLM assistance that isn't specific to any one model. The remaining cases I'm aware of are when an LLM-associated email address (possibly with display name) appears as the author or committer, or in the Co-Authored-By/Co-Developed-By fields. We could just check the whole commit message for any LLM-ish words if we wanted though. In practice, I doubt it will make much difference. So long as we get something reasonably accurate though, I'm not going to nitpick the particulars here. >> I don't mind writing the description for CONTRIBUTE. Most of that is >> separate from the exact technical means for the hook anyway; the hook is >> intended to be only a friendly check for honest mistakes and not a >> strict policy enforcement system anyway. > > It is not a separate job, because the description of what is > disallowed is tightly coupled to what the hook actually does. Should be document the exact implementation we use for detecting LLM-assisted commits, or is it enough to state that our policies don't permit them? The latter seems much more important to spell out to me. I'm not sure people need to know ahead of time that (for example), we don't allow commits with the word "copilot" in them. On the other hand, I don't really mind how we describe this in CONTRIBUTE, so long as we make our policies clear. >> The problem is that when the LLM initiates the "git commit", it will get >> back the result of that command. Most LLMs are designed to try different >> things if a command fails, including things we humans might consider >> malicious. If the commit-msg hook causes "git commit" to fail with a >> message saying we reject commits with a "Co-Authored-By: Some LLM" >> field, there's a good chance the LLM will remove that line and retry the >> commit. The user might not even realize it happened unless they look >> carefully at the LLM's logs. > > My suggestion is to search the entire log message _and_ the > author/committer for the relevant patterns. Thus, whether there is or > isn't Co-Authored-By is not relevant in a push hook more than it is > relevant in a commit hook. Or what am I missing? If we reject LLM-assisted commits (no matter what precise logic we use), there's a reasonable chance that an agentic LLM will simply rewrite the commit message to pass our check, effectively lying by omission. Since this can happen in the background, a well-intentioned user running an LLM might not even see the error message unless they look at the full logs. >> We could also do an applypatch-msg (or pre-applypatch) hook. If I'm >> understanding your concern Eli, this should make your life easier >> without running into the above problems with a commit-msg hook. This >> hypothetical hook would run when you call "git am foo.patch" and reject >> it immediately so that you don't have to remove the commit later when >> preparing to push. > > "git am" also commits, so a pre-commit hook should cover this, right? > And "git apply" will be followed by a commit, so again a pre-commit > hook should do. According to the Git documentation[1], "git am" only runs the various applypatch hooks, though autogen.sh sets up applypatch-msg to call commit-msg (ditto for pre-applypatch). We can change that logic though. For "git apply", you'd be calling "git commit" afterwards directly, so it only runs the various commit hooks (but you'd be typing in the commit message anyway, so hopefully you wouldn't be adding LLM annotations). The benefit of doing this in applypatch-msg instead of commit-msg is simply to avoid giving an agentic LLM all the feedback it needs to hide its use from us when it generates the commit. At the end of the day, these are just pattern-matching tools that are trained to fix errors and make forward progress. (After checking to be sure, pre-commit runs too early; it's before the user enters the commit message, so we need commit-msg and/or applypatch-msg.) [1] https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Customizing-Git-Git-Hooks
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81520) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Aug 2026 06:22:34 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 01 02:22:33 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49333 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1wq378-0000E5-7c for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Aug 2026 02:22:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54662) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wq374-0000Cb-Gb for 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Aug 2026 02:22:28 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wq36y-0000xo-RU; Sat, 01 Aug 2026 02:22:20 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=QAacF9K/EPxXRV9gRvGNkNVcIgRDROVDIOtk0v9Qjo8=; b=HaPnf2ixNklI ZiKpaznPRiFZpgFdVkQG//8KMKJ8IFF+nMB6P8bMNsVn2OmzitIe82oYae17g63lGd9C2227brGJa BzeXpPkkVB4w6tS01REDM/OZWGLhrCzPD4AlHLHAHZG8DuZl2wSuKHcVhw2kCSPVQ7W2vTR3acvZX vdvst239oK3LD4Ld/oymxgMlve/d4aZJCuJRbKbAXRk/Px+esQO+tlsIbqQVVm98F8nGz/37pK9NY R2m1HzCr//w6ledDinXawsAyxyySMz+XpC4ohkJT90HxgO8RxODusgrVjKdMqA2Ffj7KTNtKxqzGF LjYJkB3NC4R5AR0OY7LQIQ==; Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2026 09:22:17 +0300 Message-Id: <868q6qjr6u.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <77b6ddcf-f11c-e04d-daee-860da7746460@HIDDEN> (message from Jim Porter on Fri, 31 Jul 2026 09:52:29 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> <77b6ddcf-f11c-e04d-daee-860da7746460@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 09:52:29 -0700 > Cc: 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> > > On 7/31/2026 3:51 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > One alternative would be to search the entire log message and > > author/committer addresses for regular expressions matching > > "Anthropic", "ChatGPT", "OpenAI" etc. Regexps make it easier to adapt > > to changes and unanticipated issues, and can be general enough to be > > relatively insensitive to minor changes in email addresses. > > Yeah, I think regexps would make sense here. The email addresses are > still probably the most accurate indicator though. We want to disallow > an address like "123456789+Copilot@HIDDEN", but not > disallow the word "copilot" entirely. Why not disallow "copilot" entirely? > > Btw, we must spell out these restrictions in CONTRIBUTE. > > I don't mind writing the description for CONTRIBUTE. Most of that is > separate from the exact technical means for the hook anyway; the hook is > intended to be only a friendly check for honest mistakes and not a > strict policy enforcement system anyway. It is not a separate job, because the description of what is disallowed is tightly coupled to what the hook actually does. > >> I think that Jim has a good point about commit-msg vs. pre-push: > >> I would be concerned about the LLM just removing the attribution in > >> order to avoid the effects of the hook. Recent models are particularly > >> notable for their persistence. It's somewhat reminiscent of the > >> make-more-paperclips-by-any-means thought experiments. > > > > Sorry, I don't understand the scenario. If the attribute is removed, > > how could the hook that searches attributions work in the first place? > > Many LLM harnesses (the programs that send/receive text to/from the > underlying model) provide the ability for the LLM to run arbitrary > commands. The technical details don't matter much for this discussion, > but with such a harness, you could prompt the LLM that it should > generate some code and commit it to a branch. > > In practice, this is how most LLM attributions in commit messages come > about. Users calling an LLM as just a chatbot would run "git commit" > themselves, and probably wouldn't include a Co-Authored-By field or > anything else we could detect. > > The problem is that when the LLM initiates the "git commit", it will get > back the result of that command. Most LLMs are designed to try different > things if a command fails, including things we humans might consider > malicious. If the commit-msg hook causes "git commit" to fail with a > message saying we reject commits with a "Co-Authored-By: Some LLM" > field, there's a good chance the LLM will remove that line and retry the > commit. The user might not even realize it happened unless they look > carefully at the LLM's logs. My suggestion is to search the entire log message _and_ the author/committer for the relevant patterns. Thus, whether there is or isn't Co-Authored-By is not relevant in a push hook more than it is relevant in a commit hook. Or what am I missing? > > In any case, my point is that delaying the rejection until push time > > is much worse than rejecting commits, for the reasons I tried to > > explain. If we must have a pre-push hook (which I'm not yet convinced > > we do), then at least let's have both pre-commit and pre-push hooks. > > We could also do an applypatch-msg (or pre-applypatch) hook. If I'm > understanding your concern Eli, this should make your life easier > without running into the above problems with a commit-msg hook. This > hypothetical hook would run when you call "git am foo.patch" and reject > it immediately so that you don't have to remove the commit later when > preparing to push. "git am" also commits, so a pre-commit hook should cover this, right? And "git apply" will be followed by a commit, so again a pre-commit hook should do.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81520) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Aug 2026 06:13:25 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 01 02:13:25 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49271 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1wq2yI-0007JD-R1 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Aug 2026 02:13:24 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33376) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wq2yE-0007Hy-Sf for 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Aug 2026 02:13:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wq2y9-0008Gr-1H; Sat, 01 Aug 2026 02:13:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=xkzsgfGSPBsDUU7oDGybaEZi3Re+Ry1v+YJEM4V5ko0=; b=X9+9cP9xSc32 fT1rFG56FLtShszDJAx1FnRDj3POdprGsQ6XeDr+7bMYRPNjyFA6YacJJHG0vGiT08h1+OAsk3Kxr jHiytN860c/mBXBjN/120wLnTf+XyTMuwXtz+9fnHbuKoZKCiLXwH0LhmNJs0SonyZb9NwAfFuTnN E0Lp0WipGX4KRuQ/iWOO9v13CMYqgZZHbYP9kBjhQ134gI5pxb7pduP+Ak4N6dTNjCG/nTLDD2qtw MM/hF7u+QwG2vD5sM0tWH5mT8NXnt07afSkAQddENRYQj2jJ1CWZYinzNcsmtvzpPTRUpMwyV4m19 9P9FwgE/TebC2iZXF7M+nQ==; Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2026 09:13:08 +0300 Message-Id: <86a4r6jrm3.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87a4r7dv83.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Sean Whitton on Fri, 31 Jul 2026 16:39:24 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ik5v75yt.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ik5vwff3.fsf@HIDDEN> <87fr0z730v.fsf@HIDDEN> <86h5lfwc7h.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a4r771bk.fsf@HIDDEN> <86a4r7w56c.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a4r7dv83.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> > Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 16:39:24 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii [31/Jul 6:27pm +03] wrote: > >> From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> > >> Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > >> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 14:09:35 +0100 > >> > >> >> > What are the problems with rejecting individual commits when they are > >> >> > done? > >> >> > >> >> It makes it difficult to make commits you never intend to push, e.g. > >> >> for local-only checkpointing. > >> > > >> > On the public branches? Why do you do that? It's inherently > >> > dangerous. > >> > >> Right, I either do it on non-public branches, or on machines which don't > >> have my SSH key. > > > > But then the hooks should not be relevant, right? > > No, they are still active, and get in the way. That's not what the hooks should do. They should not be active on one's private branches, only on the public ones. We have no business forcing our requirements on private branches.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81520) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Aug 2026 06:11:19 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 01 02:11:19 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49264 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1wq2wH-00073I-UI for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Aug 2026 02:11:19 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58642) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wq2wF-00071v-F7 for 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Aug 2026 02:11:16 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wq2w9-0008Al-Pq; Sat, 01 Aug 2026 02:11:09 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=aehNulonD1XXyf2Yv3U4GEOCPQewE53ad0WFg+gvSvI=; b=ZwEB5i/7y5Pg SKvqt7BVkq/nBp4Q88OLGD4D+1o0UdQzww+Q1mPCMKLeVKaR1IMil2siJpQLuybygxNzgqc+/wBUH j6mva1K3orYHY07LUeLrY9IA+KNQrcHOLCxyaLt7Y+3aPimuY9g7QGqFac7Qfz/Z7uuo0CgVJvK37 hN4V9RMuw7VbwbAjjtobWUtZmDeYVaZYhQxarRcfBSGoPkNhr/jJkTxZgLQOqGhRAUPHTxm1JnH1o 20nZ5BU+PAP6KJQ+HxIlfJm0VdZ0/RGXlMGimpT/ZTi+yCRYjAGM8Vffb4Fmq2dCVmX1oB5CdWVRB Y800orv35K6d3H5xPZZQJQ==; Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2026 09:11:06 +0300 Message-Id: <86bjbmjrph.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <2a477d8e-973b-4c8b-9dc3-c8d8d4e8641b@HIDDEN> (message from Dmitry Gutov on Fri, 31 Jul 2026 18:36:58 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ik5v75yt.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ik5vwff3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3b81fa7e-6f67-4479-b0db-fee3076ad201@HIDDEN> <86bjbnw585.fsf@HIDDEN> <2a477d8e-973b-4c8b-9dc3-c8d8d4e8641b@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 18:36:58 +0300 > Cc: spwhitton@HIDDEN, jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> > > On 31/07/2026 18:26, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 16:08:45 +0300 > >> Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > >> From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> > >> > >> Hi Eli, > >> > >> On 31/07/2026 14:45, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >>> My point is that when I have several commits, and then pushing them > >>> all fails because one of them, going back and redoing the one that > >>> caused the fail is a terrible nuisance with Git. So I want the > >>> rejection happen when I commit, so I could fix it right away. > >> > >> If the pre-push hook only checks for LLM attributions, and does that > >> with decent accuracy, would your scenario above ever happen? > > > > I don't see why not. I explained up-thread how it could happen. > > I mean... if that does happen, wouldn't you want it to be stopped at the > "git push" stage? No, I want to be stopped at the commit stage, where fixing this is easier. > If you agree, then the question might be whether both pre-push and > pre-commit checks are needed. I already said that I'm okay with having both, if needed. > >> I don't imagine you would have commits with Assisted-By header in the > >> local checkout of Emacs, with any regularity. > > > > I think you forget that I frequently push commits of others, and also > > merge from the release branch to master, and then push. > > Hopefully the release branch isn't going to receive problematic > messages, so merging from it won't create such difficulty. There's the --no-validate switch to Git, which bypasses hooks. So yes, such commit could be on a branch.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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Fri, 31 Jul 2026 09:52:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.4] ([76.168.144.128]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 586e51a60fabf-458f6064843sm1516403fac.4.2026.07.31.09.52.28 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 31 Jul 2026 09:52:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <77b6ddcf-f11c-e04d-daee-860da7746460@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 09:52:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits Content-Language: en-US To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 7/31/2026 3:51 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > One alternative would be to search the entire log message and > author/committer addresses for regular expressions matching > "Anthropic", "ChatGPT", "OpenAI" etc. Regexps make it easier to adapt > to changes and unanticipated issues, and can be general enough to be > relatively insensitive to minor changes in email addresses. Yeah, I think regexps would make sense here. The email addresses are still probably the most accurate indicator though. We want to disallow an address like "123456789+Copilot@HIDDEN", but not disallow the word "copilot" entirely. > Btw, we must spell out these restrictions in CONTRIBUTE. I don't mind writing the description for CONTRIBUTE. Most of that is separate from the exact technical means for the hook anyway; the hook is intended to be only a friendly check for honest mistakes and not a strict policy enforcement system anyway. >> I think that Jim has a good point about commit-msg vs. pre-push: >> I would be concerned about the LLM just removing the attribution in >> order to avoid the effects of the hook. Recent models are particularly >> notable for their persistence. It's somewhat reminiscent of the >> make-more-paperclips-by-any-means thought experiments. > > Sorry, I don't understand the scenario. If the attribute is removed, > how could the hook that searches attributions work in the first place? Many LLM harnesses (the programs that send/receive text to/from the underlying model) provide the ability for the LLM to run arbitrary commands. The technical details don't matter much for this discussion, but with such a harness, you could prompt the LLM that it should generate some code and commit it to a branch. In practice, this is how most LLM attributions in commit messages come about. Users calling an LLM as just a chatbot would run "git commit" themselves, and probably wouldn't include a Co-Authored-By field or anything else we could detect. The problem is that when the LLM initiates the "git commit", it will get back the result of that command. Most LLMs are designed to try different things if a command fails, including things we humans might consider malicious. If the commit-msg hook causes "git commit" to fail with a message saying we reject commits with a "Co-Authored-By: Some LLM" field, there's a good chance the LLM will remove that line and retry the commit. The user might not even realize it happened unless they look carefully at the LLM's logs. > In any case, my point is that delaying the rejection until push time > is much worse than rejecting commits, for the reasons I tried to > explain. If we must have a pre-push hook (which I'm not yet convinced > we do), then at least let's have both pre-commit and pre-push hooks. We could also do an applypatch-msg (or pre-applypatch) hook. If I'm understanding your concern Eli, this should make your life easier without running into the above problems with a commit-msg hook. This hypothetical hook would run when you call "git am foo.patch" and reject it immediately so that you don't have to remove the commit later when preparing to push.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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Fri, 31 Jul 2026 09:24:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.4] ([76.168.144.128]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 5a478bee46e88-3153e18e70esm14764958eec.29.2026.07.31.09.24.37 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 31 Jul 2026 09:24:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <68d0023e-e282-e2e3-bd4a-2c38f498a0f4@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 09:24:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits Content-Language: en-US To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: spwhitton@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 7/31/2026 12:46 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2026 17:06:57 -0700 >> Cc: 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> >> >> On 7/30/2026 10:36 AM, Sean Whitton wrote: >>> We explicitly permit it in CONTRIBUTE. >>> >>> So yeah, let's match on e-mail addresses. >> >> Ok, here's a patch series to do this locally. > > You rush to post a patch too quickly, sorry. When Sean and myself > disagree, it is better to leave time to both of us to respond. Not a problem. I have some thoughts about turning this patch into a generic hook others can add to their repos if they have similar policies, so I don't think it's wasted effort. (This generic hook might end up looking different from whatever we adopt in Emacs, of course.)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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Fri, 31 Jul 2026 09:21:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <14a291af-d84a-671d-f5ce-cedce3dd955f@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 09:21:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits Content-Language: en-US To: =?UTF-8?Q?St=c3=a9phane_Marks?= <shipmints@HIDDEN>, Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ik5v75yt.fsf@HIDDEN> <CAN+1HbpX133tKQ=-naWSFkwmyD8Fn_Goeaup4Nje+GWn=ujTBA@HIDDEN> <6fae8ff8-0154-4e5f-8f05-08140a5e8f6a@HIDDEN> <CAN+1HbqhKGOH+ESBJqgQqT46N7cf=XwbvuFmuvfoLibqa_B5gQ@HIDDEN> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CAN+1HbqhKGOH+ESBJqgQqT46N7cf=XwbvuFmuvfoLibqa_B5gQ@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN>, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 7/31/2026 6:06 AM, Stéphane Marks wrote: > It's better to clearly state in CONTRIBUTE what the rules are, trust our > colleagues, and hold people accountable should an issue arise. Text > scanning is superficial at best. That's my general position as well. The pre-push hook is intended to help trusted colleagues avoid honest mistakes while also being written defensively to keep LLM agents from "helpfully" removing their attributions when committing.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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Fri, 31 Jul 2026 11:39:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by melete.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8ED6B7EA248; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 16:39:24 +0100 (BST) From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits In-Reply-To: <86a4r7w56c.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ik5v75yt.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ik5vwff3.fsf@HIDDEN> <87fr0z730v.fsf@HIDDEN> <86h5lfwc7h.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a4r771bk.fsf@HIDDEN> <86a4r7w56c.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 16:39:24 +0100 Message-ID: <87a4r7dv83.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii [31/Jul 6:27pm +03] wrote: >> From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> >> Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 14:09:35 +0100 >> >> >> > What are the problems with rejecting individual commits when they are >> >> > done? >> >> >> >> It makes it difficult to make commits you never intend to push, e.g. >> >> for local-only checkpointing. >> > >> > On the public branches? Why do you do that? It's inherently >> > dangerous. >> >> Right, I either do it on non-public branches, or on machines which don't >> have my SSH key. > > But then the hooks should not be relevant, right? No, they are still active, and get in the way. -- Sean Whitton
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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Fri, 31 Jul 2026 11:37:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2a477d8e-973b-4c8b-9dc3-c8d8d4e8641b@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 18:36:58 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ik5v75yt.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ik5vwff3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3b81fa7e-6f67-4479-b0db-fee3076ad201@HIDDEN> <86bjbnw585.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <86bjbnw585.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 31/07/2026 18:26, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 16:08:45 +0300 >> Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> >> >> Hi Eli, >> >> On 31/07/2026 14:45, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>> My point is that when I have several commits, and then pushing them >>> all fails because one of them, going back and redoing the one that >>> caused the fail is a terrible nuisance with Git. So I want the >>> rejection happen when I commit, so I could fix it right away. >> >> If the pre-push hook only checks for LLM attributions, and does that >> with decent accuracy, would your scenario above ever happen? > > I don't see why not. I explained up-thread how it could happen. I mean... if that does happen, wouldn't you want it to be stopped at the "git push" stage? If you agree, then the question might be whether both pre-push and pre-commit checks are needed. >> I don't imagine you would have commits with Assisted-By header in the >> local checkout of Emacs, with any regularity. > > I think you forget that I frequently push commits of others, and also > merge from the release branch to master, and then push. Hopefully the release branch isn't going to receive problematic messages, so merging from it won't create such difficulty.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81520) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jul 2026 15:27:18 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 31 11:27:18 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43535 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1wpp8n-00076R-Rz for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 11:27:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56554) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wpp8l-00076A-AO for 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 11:27:15 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wpp8g-00078F-12; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 11:27:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=HNzFVNv3mavSl/vQ1f+w0XQiRz5cONwtb94hOoAfdnA=; b=LqCYaAv55ycd hlamnsrRRsg9es99N51D6+13PjeqNiGHnctYQ6GDZ5ChvXuz+nWZrhxVc//22Te6TxzFXuozdvbev PfKfSICBc1+p0xOOajOonkwp4c8YeAJjBP5M6EHGU/nlbWQuhXByipl4NvE1khsuWP/BVN88YKtQE ME7ni76SKz/k0NACru95VSuFYI7KT++kH653JX8liYXPWmfS956SZEhnFGChM9xhOuSUe0UIk60Gj 7divQPBYIIBo2nvlwsAMyXeqkusjuHl5Cq+W3m4Lyv/LHxhwcx18E3wMecBGXl9rIxOCLFFP7U47q E6hhLk4iQdBW8DuyB5yxZg==; Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 18:27:07 +0300 Message-Id: <86a4r7w56c.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87a4r771bk.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Sean Whitton on Fri, 31 Jul 2026 14:09:35 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ik5v75yt.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ik5vwff3.fsf@HIDDEN> <87fr0z730v.fsf@HIDDEN> <86h5lfwc7h.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a4r771bk.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> > Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 14:09:35 +0100 > > >> > What are the problems with rejecting individual commits when they are > >> > done? > >> > >> It makes it difficult to make commits you never intend to push, e.g. > >> for local-only checkpointing. > > > > On the public branches? Why do you do that? It's inherently > > dangerous. > > Right, I either do it on non-public branches, or on machines which don't > have my SSH key. But then the hooks should not be relevant, right?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81520) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jul 2026 15:26:12 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 31 11:26:12 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43526 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1wpp7k-000749-1W for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 11:26:12 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56712) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wpp7i-00073u-3X for 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 11:26:10 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wpp7c-0006mg-Kd; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 11:26:04 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=CbY7AFKRveDI4FyDnmnr28wxHXQqNGvzh9T0Ji6jCSA=; b=Q7k0NKt0114T T/uagW2PCM5WFza/BBOabX/V8W2gGTn2TQl7kh3dqzw220XjD38AAMG1skjz7fKBNuMChyk295bLY 2NaoNHBKhIes5w8ZuQpn7lzPBbhLcXx4BlRDBzs/RXBrbdDeqTOeht1s6iNiCy+LcsarjgA4jSqEg rUpRvHD4tCRNvGgkUJEHHDsNChcxUG6VDnqNGkGfAPWDG72F9UOPchglASRWuGWQ7thfCJzL1kyNi nquYUnxiYhRVD1wxKh9PT7aYxCQVE8zzA7xBP+zM1TS9xsEu4XV6LZ/ksbIHsKM18iXJwjOgWm5dR vC7/Ya9DYmAqBTaIU3wWvA==; Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 18:26:02 +0300 Message-Id: <86bjbnw585.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <3b81fa7e-6f67-4479-b0db-fee3076ad201@HIDDEN> (message from Dmitry Gutov on Fri, 31 Jul 2026 16:08:45 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ik5v75yt.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ik5vwff3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3b81fa7e-6f67-4479-b0db-fee3076ad201@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 16:08:45 +0300 > Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> > > Hi Eli, > > On 31/07/2026 14:45, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > My point is that when I have several commits, and then pushing them > > all fails because one of them, going back and redoing the one that > > caused the fail is a terrible nuisance with Git. So I want the > > rejection happen when I commit, so I could fix it right away. > > If the pre-push hook only checks for LLM attributions, and does that > with decent accuracy, would your scenario above ever happen? I don't see why not. I explained up-thread how it could happen. > I don't imagine you would have commits with Assisted-By header in the > local checkout of Emacs, with any regularity. I think you forget that I frequently push commits of others, and also merge from the release branch to master, and then push.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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AHgh+RqhFcpsjO/mRefjg27BOAdBuv0KR78XjXfLYilFQauJIiyrikStSFjPecOitsC8nYw1RcD+tA==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz96zbSPMKyjmXyQEdIrM0I44u1Yq1h3i4VNcQlSUKAJYYwdmZC Dxrn7dzWLcUsA1hXhKdmwBcYPYbEwxzCuR61bHeqq+Pm8Lf+3/gQBXf8VYQweG/OLTSKobb3nYp MQkw551AXYzCrupFkwI0n0OETiO68uFU= X-Gm-Gg: AR+sD13S2lBLndqkXS4GtcvNHx12I3VXRYvmDjE+cy9vUdpPI+XtVZh6lmOOz9AaJOF j3Z/rwfM8QB4XKr3vw4SajK0ozzu0THCilj3FnjSrVnFO6eivSj8sp+LUtmhMajrR0GRFc6leVk uwHP2/vjurLg+WdeTc++EV8P727TOg/pPr70CXo7sUol3ViiRuWGk3AZfVhK1+vSGkoKGzIjFEL D3cS+is1WnOWJ1GLqL3eQCV7rDypRljFaKmsnvdebk7Pg/4PYxzua+SaZ0XzLoAFux18zyihHWv CfXZivagZQ1Fkw66gS30AAyF47x+7SXklpPG5iME17BvFchZ0YNzu8aom0DaqtgQb2BHUbO18Gs RgLhrtC+fKcILoGL75c0sn1dwukB0qSfULZBBp3n7f1hg5prRsbJMfOcf/RT7+wr64UYU3fNjqL DNWL49M0PHgNSzDAzeVoAIopl3bFYKjmM6ckL/3kDeQKABoyFYsOSLHeBdvB4UfOWiKSM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:2d09:b0:738:bce9:6afc with SMTP id ada2fe7eead31-75b1e83c13cmr86784137.0.1785508293657; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 07:31:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ik5v75yt.fsf@HIDDEN> <CAN+1HbpX133tKQ=-naWSFkwmyD8Fn_Goeaup4Nje+GWn=ujTBA@HIDDEN> <6fae8ff8-0154-4e5f-8f05-08140a5e8f6a@HIDDEN> <CAN+1HbqhKGOH+ESBJqgQqT46N7cf=XwbvuFmuvfoLibqa_B5gQ@HIDDEN> <15a4cd4d-e20e-456c-afb9-24659be99ead@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <15a4cd4d-e20e-456c-afb9-24659be99ead@HIDDEN> From: =?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane_Marks?= <shipmints@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 16:31:22 +0200 X-Gm-Features: AUfX_mxRUWmri0--YSEaY4jif7LxpKlbk6-H4HHorDADdvp2vACfys6Js4JTutM Message-ID: <CAN+1HbqBQPmkpPOQbtEsKjuk-6vjcUFdyTi+gMAfvFauFPnT7g@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits To: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009648fb0657e90b26" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --0000000000009648fb0657e90b26 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jul 31, 2026 at 9:40=E2=80=AFAM Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> wro= te: > On 31/07/2026 16:06, St=C3=A9phane Marks wrote: > > These simplistic ideas to use string scanning to detect only the most > > blatant LLM use would likely be seen as "legal theater" and afford no > > real protection against a claimant, especially one with deep pockets. > > I don't think we can say what arguments will or will not work in such a > proceeding yet. But with LLMs defaulting to tag their work, the absence > of attribution at least could point to an intent to circumvent the > project policy. Which we should document anyway, of course. > > > It's better to clearly state in CONTRIBUTE what the rules are, trust ou= r > > colleagues, and hold people accountable should an issue arise. Text > > scanning is superficial at best. > > If we can help the colleagues uphold the rules with some automation, > that seems like a win. > > It could help contributors that haven't read the new policy yet, and > briefly used a popular LLM for some minor purpose. > BUT it is proposed to be at push time which only a select few of us have. It is not proposed as a pre-commit hook that I saw, though maybe the dialog progressed toward that as a slightly better goal. --0000000000009648fb0657e90b26 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon= t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;b= ackground-color:transparent">On Fri, Jul 31, 2026 at 9:40=E2=80=AFAM Dmitry= Gutov <<a href=3D"mailto:dmitry@HIDDEN">dmitry@HIDDEN</a>> wro= te:</span></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blo= ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left= :1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On 31/07/2026 16:06, St=C3=A9= phane Marks wrote:<br> > These simplistic ideas to use string scanning to detect only the most = <br> > blatant LLM use would likely be seen as "legal theater" and = afford no <br> > real protection against a claimant, especially one with deep pockets.<= br> <br> I don't think we can say what arguments will or will not work in such a= <br> proceeding yet. But with LLMs defaulting to tag their work, the absence <br= > of attribution at least could point to an intent to circumvent the <br> project policy. Which we should document anyway, of course.<br> <br> > It's better to clearly state in CONTRIBUTE what the rules are, tru= st our <br> > colleagues, and hold people accountable should an issue arise.=C2=A0 T= ext <br> > scanning is superficial at best.<br> <br> If we can help the colleagues uphold the rules with some automation, <br> that seems like a win.<br> <br> It could help contributors that haven't read the new policy yet, and <b= r> briefly used a popular LLM for some minor purpose.<br></blockquote><div><br= ></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">BUT it = is proposed to be at push time which only a select few of us have.=C2=A0 It= is not proposed as a pre-commit hook that I saw, though maybe the dialog p= rogressed toward that as a slightly better goal.</div></div></div> --0000000000009648fb0657e90b26--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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Fri, 31 Jul 2026 09:40:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <15a4cd4d-e20e-456c-afb9-24659be99ead@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 16:40:42 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits To: =?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane_Marks?= <shipmints@HIDDEN> References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ik5v75yt.fsf@HIDDEN> <CAN+1HbpX133tKQ=-naWSFkwmyD8Fn_Goeaup4Nje+GWn=ujTBA@HIDDEN> <6fae8ff8-0154-4e5f-8f05-08140a5e8f6a@HIDDEN> <CAN+1HbqhKGOH+ESBJqgQqT46N7cf=XwbvuFmuvfoLibqa_B5gQ@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CAN+1HbqhKGOH+ESBJqgQqT46N7cf=XwbvuFmuvfoLibqa_B5gQ@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 31/07/2026 16:06, Stéphane Marks wrote: > These simplistic ideas to use string scanning to detect only the most > blatant LLM use would likely be seen as "legal theater" and afford no > real protection against a claimant, especially one with deep pockets. I don't think we can say what arguments will or will not work in such a proceeding yet. But with LLMs defaulting to tag their work, the absence of attribution at least could point to an intent to circumvent the project policy. Which we should document anyway, of course. > It's better to clearly state in CONTRIBUTE what the rules are, trust our > colleagues, and hold people accountable should an issue arise. Text > scanning is superficial at best. If we can help the colleagues uphold the rules with some automation, that seems like a win. It could help contributors that haven't read the new policy yet, and briefly used a popular LLM for some minor purpose.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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Fri, 31 Jul 2026 09:09:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by melete.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 783A07E8A54; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 14:09:35 +0100 (BST) From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits In-Reply-To: <86h5lfwc7h.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ik5v75yt.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ik5vwff3.fsf@HIDDEN> <87fr0z730v.fsf@HIDDEN> <86h5lfwc7h.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 14:09:35 +0100 Message-ID: <87a4r771bk.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii [31/Jul 3:55pm +03] wrote: > Sorry, I don't trust these advanced features enough not to screw up > the Emacs Git repository, especially with my ancient version of Git. > > What does it do? move all the commits after the offending one to a > branch, then back? It does a reword-only rebase. But fair enough, if your Git is too old, it probably won't work. > (Btw, what this does and when it can/cannot be used is almost > completely undocumented. Both the doc string and the manual are > silent about that, and both are one-liners. How is a user supposed to > learn about these capabilities and their limitations?) I agree. I'll expand it at some point. >> > What are the problems with rejecting individual commits when they are >> > done? >> >> It makes it difficult to make commits you never intend to push, e.g. >> for local-only checkpointing. > > On the public branches? Why do you do that? It's inherently > dangerous. Right, I either do it on non-public branches, or on machines which don't have my SSH key. -- Sean Whitton
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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Fri, 31 Jul 2026 09:08:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3b81fa7e-6f67-4479-b0db-fee3076ad201@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 16:08:45 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ik5v75yt.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ik5vwff3.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <86ik5vwff3.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Hi Eli, On 31/07/2026 14:45, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > My point is that when I have several commits, and then pushing them > all fails because one of them, going back and redoing the one that > caused the fail is a terrible nuisance with Git. So I want the > rejection happen when I commit, so I could fix it right away. If the pre-push hook only checks for LLM attributions, and does that with decent accuracy, would your scenario above ever happen? I don't imagine you would have commits with Assisted-By header in the local checkout of Emacs, with any regularity.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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boundary="0000000000005ef5bb0657e7db6d" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --0000000000005ef5bb0657e7db6d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jul 31, 2026 at 8:57=E2=80=AFAM Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> wro= te: > On 31/07/2026 14:57, St=C3=A9phane Marks wrote: > > I don't really have much of a horse in this race but I feel as if we're > > trying to protect from the few people who have direct Savannah access > > and those should be among the most trusted people who well understand > > CONTRIBUTE. > > IANAL, but even an imperfect tool like this one could be of legal help > sometime later, if we are ever in the position that FSF worries about: > when LLM generated code is found to infringe some third party's copyright= . > These simplistic ideas to use string scanning to detect only the most blatant LLM use would likely be seen as "legal theater" and afford no real protection against a claimant, especially one with deep pockets. It's better to clearly state in CONTRIBUTE what the rules are, trust our colleagues, and hold people accountable should an issue arise. Text scanning is superficial at best. --0000000000005ef5bb0657e7db6d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon= t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;b= ackground-color:transparent">On Fri, Jul 31, 2026 at 8:57=E2=80=AFAM Dmitry= Gutov <<a href=3D"mailto:dmitry@HIDDEN">dmitry@HIDDEN</a>> wro= te:</span></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blo= ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left= :1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On 31/07/2026 14:57, St=C3=A9= phane Marks wrote:<br> > I don't really have much of a horse in this race but I feel as if = we're <br> > trying to protect from the few people who have direct Savannah access = <br> > and those should be among the most trusted people who well understand = <br> > CONTRIBUTE.<br> <br> IANAL, but even an imperfect tool like this one could be of legal help <br> sometime later, if we are ever in the position that FSF worries about: <br> when LLM generated code is found to infringe some third party's copyrig= ht.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo= nt-family:monospace">These simplistic ideas to use string scanning to detec= t only the most blatant LLM use would likely be seen as "legal theater= " and afford no real protection against a claimant, especially one wit= h deep pockets.=C2=A0 It's better to clearly state in CONTRIBUTE what t= he rules are, trust our colleagues, and hold people accountable should an i= ssue arise.=C2=A0 Text scanning is superficial at best.</div></div></div> --0000000000005ef5bb0657e7db6d--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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Fri, 31 Jul 2026 08:57:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6fae8ff8-0154-4e5f-8f05-08140a5e8f6a@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 15:57:54 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits To: =?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane_Marks?= <shipmints@HIDDEN>, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ik5v75yt.fsf@HIDDEN> <CAN+1HbpX133tKQ=-naWSFkwmyD8Fn_Goeaup4Nje+GWn=ujTBA@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CAN+1HbpX133tKQ=-naWSFkwmyD8Fn_Goeaup4Nje+GWn=ujTBA@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 31/07/2026 14:57, Stéphane Marks wrote: > I don't really have much of a horse in this race but I feel as if we're > trying to protect from the few people who have direct Savannah access > and those should be among the most trusted people who well understand > CONTRIBUTE. IANAL, but even an imperfect tool like this one could be of legal help sometime later, if we are ever in the position that FSF worries about: when LLM generated code is found to infringe some third party's copyright.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81520) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jul 2026 12:55:27 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 31 08:55:26 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41241 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1wpmlq-0004Gq-7M for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 08:55:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46858) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wpmln-0004ES-7U for 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 08:55:23 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wpmlg-0003h5-K6; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 08:55:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=qLs3NVlJgKRXb+DNWtbuQdXg4bYSvnlUT96aGWjlxl4=; b=ChK5q95uTbAk O6+9FR3It6oI9vQh6hdjbUPfBjvbSGmMDGTM504fmPvxC09REMUmKSSTsBHIDUqoEsH/fkid/7yly /U3ajLNyDK10W8Fi/WmKdqeURal0Z+s8bsIA4Fu3PTJdMhL7gc9+ZJtkO5Wz5bQVTN4X+DHYYq7wV YJG0fTTP5xvbfxKEMjtzMRRfitBuoWUsfiZHPoHURzQl7BUPNmVKtVWwN7i7kasbSXMe74UtcZfCr Hb9xFc5OOz80kUQJVO0GovUx6CMa0Cuz4tQFDOnjDHFXiJsTj4pd9JE6EJmavkWnkeJXFbjL1jNfb ghvwx5wCLMe8YUmFmD+XZw==; Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 15:55:14 +0300 Message-Id: <86h5lfwc7h.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87fr0z730v.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Sean Whitton on Fri, 31 Jul 2026 13:32:48 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ik5v75yt.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ik5vwff3.fsf@HIDDEN> <87fr0z730v.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> > Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 13:32:48 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii [31/Jul 2:45pm +03] wrote: > > My point is that when I have several commits, and then pushing them > > all fails because one of them, going back and redoing the one that > > caused the fail is a terrible nuisance with Git. So I want the > > rejection happen when I commit, so I could fix it right away. > > > > I don't mind of push fails for a reason whose fix is simple. For > > example, if someone pushed in-between, all I need to do is "git pull" > > followed by another push, and that's fine by me. By contrast, fixing > > a commit in the middle of a large number is much harder, especially > > when they are not your commits. Think about merging from a release > > branch, or "git am" of someone who submitted a series of several > > commits. > > Just to note that if it's commit message related, then for Git you can > type 'e' in 'C-x v L' to fix it, these days. Sorry, I don't trust these advanced features enough not to screw up the Emacs Git repository, especially with my ancient version of Git. What does it do? move all the commits after the offending one to a branch, then back? (Btw, what this does and when it can/cannot be used is almost completely undocumented. Both the doc string and the manual are silent about that, and both are one-liners. How is a user supposed to learn about these capabilities and their limitations?) > > What are the problems with rejecting individual commits when they are > > done? > > It makes it difficult to make commits you never intend to push, e.g. > for local-only checkpointing. On the public branches? Why do you do that? It's inherently dangerous.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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Fri, 31 Jul 2026 08:32:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by melete.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6450D7E8A1B; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 13:32:48 +0100 (BST) From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits In-Reply-To: <86ik5vwff3.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ik5v75yt.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ik5vwff3.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 13:32:48 +0100 Message-ID: <87fr0z730v.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii [31/Jul 2:45pm +03] wrote: > My point is that when I have several commits, and then pushing them > all fails because one of them, going back and redoing the one that > caused the fail is a terrible nuisance with Git. So I want the > rejection happen when I commit, so I could fix it right away. > > I don't mind of push fails for a reason whose fix is simple. For > example, if someone pushed in-between, all I need to do is "git pull" > followed by another push, and that's fine by me. By contrast, fixing > a commit in the middle of a large number is much harder, especially > when they are not your commits. Think about merging from a release > branch, or "git am" of someone who submitted a series of several > commits. Just to note that if it's commit message related, then for Git you can type 'e' in 'C-x v L' to fix it, these days. > What are the problems with rejecting individual commits when they are > done? It makes it difficult to make commits you never intend to push, e.g. for local-only checkpointing. -- Sean Whitton
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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boundary="00000000000084338c0657e6e505" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --00000000000084338c0657e6e505 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jul 31, 2026 at 7:30=E2=80=AFAM Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN= ame> wrote: > > Sorry, I don't understand the scenario. If the attribute is removed, > > how could the hook that searches attributions work in the first place? > > The assumption is that the LLM is committing and the user is manually > pushing, which is, I think, a common arrangement. > > The LLM will only decide to remove the attribution if it runs into a > hook failure. But it won't ever run into that if it's a pre-push hook. > Instead the user will, and they'll learn of the problem at that point. > So that commit would still be in history, just as a lie? Many harnesses omit LLM attribution anyway these days and those won't get caught. I don't really have much of a horse in this race but I feel as if we're trying to protect from the few people who have direct Savannah access and those should be among the most trusted people who well understand CONTRIBUTE. For the rest of the patches that appear on the mailing list, if one smells like an LLM, it will appear so and not be pushed by a Savannahnian, right? This is a lot of fuss for a very low risk among a trusted group, of which a single one made a mistake. --00000000000084338c0657e6e505 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon= t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;b= ackground-color:transparent">On Fri, Jul 31, 2026 at 7:30=E2=80=AFAM Sean W= hitton <<a href=3D"mailto:spwhitton@HIDDEN">spwhitton@spwhitton.= name</a>> wrote:</span></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote= _container"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0= .8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> > Sorry, I don't understand the scenario.=C2=A0 If the attribute is = removed,<br> > how could the hook that searches attributions work in the first place?= <br> <br> The assumption is that the LLM is committing and the user is manually<br> pushing, which is, I think, a common arrangement.<br> <br> The LLM will only decide to remove the attribution if it runs into a<br> hook failure.=C2=A0 But it won't ever run into that if it's a pre-p= ush hook.<br> Instead the user will, and they'll learn of the problem at that point.<= br></blockquote><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-f= amily:monospace">So that commit would still be in history, just as a lie?= =C2=A0 Many harnesses omit LLM attribution anyway these days and those won&= #39;t get caught.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:mo= nospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monosp= ace">I don't really have much of a horse in this race but I feel as if = we're trying to protect from the few people who have direct Savannah ac= cess and those should be among the most trusted people who well understand = CONTRIBUTE.=C2=A0 For the rest of the patches that appear on the mailing li= st, if one smells like an LLM, it will appear so and not be pushed by a Sav= annahnian, right?=C2=A0 This is a lot of fuss for a very low risk among a t= rusted group, of which a single one made a mistake.</div></div></div> --00000000000084338c0657e6e505--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81520) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jul 2026 11:46:03 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 31 07:46:03 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40669 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1wplgh-0008R0-0K for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 07:46:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57034) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wplge-0008QK-C8 for 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 07:46:01 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wplgY-0008L1-Ul; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 07:45:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=jlwHasfHBUC/+H6+6VOJgLJIdm9vDz66boqHx2ZpoJU=; b=AhdlwjfK5o2n RYTxssfedxglJbM28owjjNLCDvxcB1tGTIfPM62PLgZy4uju36lL96+9otXGhO1ljQZsCIT7xsV2u +kDqdH0Cgxhdgrv5HAal1tGX97FCSr1IDDMJTN5CYEztPWlQ9/V6/zNA2jQWaNkJ/zzaIGkTtDt34 EWPvhMDyJcinhH2yhAuG1T/lNSPMF10/zXV/sYpS+dSWXVY5VsvtIafbGh+UhbDN4OH0AXW60tRHa 0XfC1KibXJY9u2I5ai5yqP1j7GZwlb9uTq//gsu9Byxb6/06ZgblQDMvoIHt6sEc37ywmxeVfeUdt rF2YJFltUPX4IJhdG4VErQ==; Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 14:45:52 +0300 Message-Id: <86ik5vwff3.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87ik5v75yt.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Sean Whitton on Fri, 31 Jul 2026 12:29:14 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ik5v75yt.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> > Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 12:29:14 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii [31/Jul 1:51pm +03] wrote: > > In any case, my point is that delaying the rejection until push time > > is much worse than rejecting commits, for the reasons I tried to > > explain. If we must have a pre-push hook (which I'm not yet convinced > > we do), then at least let's have both pre-commit and pre-push hooks. > > I definitely see where you are coming from and understand why you want > pushes to always succeed. > > I have the opposite view, that I would prefer all our checks are on > pre-push hooks, and that commits should always succeed. At some point I > would like to make it so that a user can choose which one they go on, > but that's off-topic right now. My point is that when I have several commits, and then pushing them all fails because one of them, going back and redoing the one that caused the fail is a terrible nuisance with Git. So I want the rejection happen when I commit, so I could fix it right away. I don't mind of push fails for a reason whose fix is simple. For example, if someone pushed in-between, all I need to do is "git pull" followed by another push, and that's fine by me. By contrast, fixing a commit in the middle of a large number is much harder, especially when they are not your commits. Think about merging from a release branch, or "git am" of someone who submitted a series of several commits. What are the problems with rejecting individual commits when they are done?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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Fri, 31 Jul 2026 07:29:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by melete.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4DC657E8A19; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 12:29:14 +0100 (BST) From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits In-Reply-To: <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 12:29:14 +0100 Message-ID: <87ik5v75yt.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii [31/Jul 1:51pm +03] wrote: > One alternative would be to search the entire log message and > author/committer addresses for regular expressions matching > "Anthropic", "ChatGPT", "OpenAI" etc. Regexps make it easier to adapt > to changes and unanticipated issues, and can be general enough to be > relatively insensitive to minor changes in email addresses. Okay, cool, that sounds good to me. > Btw, we must spell out these restrictions in CONTRIBUTE. Probably a good idea, yes. > Sorry, I don't understand the scenario. If the attribute is removed, > how could the hook that searches attributions work in the first place? The assumption is that the LLM is committing and the user is manually pushing, which is, I think, a common arrangement. The LLM will only decide to remove the attribution if it runs into a hook failure. But it won't ever run into that if it's a pre-push hook. Instead the user will, and they'll learn of the problem at that point. > In any case, my point is that delaying the rejection until push time > is much worse than rejecting commits, for the reasons I tried to > explain. If we must have a pre-push hook (which I'm not yet convinced > we do), then at least let's have both pre-commit and pre-push hooks. I definitely see where you are coming from and understand why you want pushes to always succeed. I have the opposite view, that I would prefer all our checks are on pre-push hooks, and that commits should always succeed. At some point I would like to make it so that a user can choose which one they go on, but that's off-topic right now. -- Sean Whitton
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81520) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jul 2026 10:51:28 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 31 06:51:28 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40206 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1wpkpr-0002J5-KW for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 06:51:28 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45688) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wpkpp-0002Is-VE for 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 06:51:26 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wpkpk-0005tR-IA; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 06:51:20 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=w5JNOGYvqjzNO1CxDY/NJ3XNKEiSM5pRnJwV0jv0CqA=; b=JAlApAcRHb3d n+mC+jDz9v6LreLzHPga47/2qx1oHeeV8ky8tytT+OnCMxAtjK3wxWrVWTMBOZ7Tc4hK0gdbUtDlV 2GjNqvo3h80+bpZAb62CaSd4ctm2imJPW27rq+eTo9w6QAlKnG6t+dmWyM57oYblbpYp1lKyTRCtr 0oZZDZMQMQevwUcpYzYyMasr4tQDIVJ3jySiVoTj/bJCZJuRUv1+Z1q02DoC0uC3RujVTovTbckrf 0ahJ++2fOcB3WSb/7NhXF5FA+J1Y3DYZ9xZbcDwhnxMuT/5mHLMYV13jSsOifZL+kAt8V1HneY9Z/ ljj8WiHTbmcaWYaKRqhtgA==; Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 13:51:18 +0300 Message-Id: <86o6fnwhy1.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Sean Whitton on Fri, 31 Jul 2026 11:04:51 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> > Cc: 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 11:04:51 +0100 > > > Pre-push hooks are an annoyance, because usually a push is supposed to > > be a step that almost always succeeds. Going back to commits and > > redoing them is a terrible nuisance. Moreover, in many cases I push > > more than one commit, in which case rejection of one that is not the > > last one is an even larger nuisance. > > > >> 2. LLM agents tend to try all possibilities - even bad ones[1] - to > >> resolve failed commands. If we checked this in the commit-msg hook, an > >> LLM that vibecoded a patch might well see the error from the hook and > >> "fix" the problem by simply deleting the attribution, even without the > >> user being aware. > > > > You seem to think about an LLM agent pushing commits? How is that > > possible if the agent doesn't have write access? > > I understand your point about not wanting to encode an ever-growing list > of e-mail addresses, Eli, so let's think about alternatives. One alternative would be to search the entire log message and author/committer addresses for regular expressions matching "Anthropic", "ChatGPT", "OpenAI" etc. Regexps make it easier to adapt to changes and unanticipated issues, and can be general enough to be relatively insensitive to minor changes in email addresses. Btw, we must spell out these restrictions in CONTRIBUTE. > I think that Jim has a good point about commit-msg vs. pre-push: > I would be concerned about the LLM just removing the attribution in > order to avoid the effects of the hook. Recent models are particularly > notable for their persistence. It's somewhat reminiscent of the > make-more-paperclips-by-any-means thought experiments. Sorry, I don't understand the scenario. If the attribute is removed, how could the hook that searches attributions work in the first place? In any case, my point is that delaying the rejection until push time is much worse than rejecting commits, for the reasons I tried to explain. If we must have a pre-push hook (which I'm not yet convinced we do), then at least let's have both pre-commit and pre-push hooks.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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Fri, 31 Jul 2026 06:04:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by melete.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3428B7E6076; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 11:04:51 +0100 (BST) From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits In-Reply-To: <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 11:04:51 +0100 Message-ID: <87tspf8ofw.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii [31/Jul 10:46am +03] wrote: >> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2026 17:06:57 -0700 >> Cc: 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> >> >> On 7/30/2026 10:36 AM, Sean Whitton wrote: >> > We explicitly permit it in CONTRIBUTE. >> > >> > So yeah, let's match on e-mail addresses. >> >> Ok, here's a patch series to do this locally. > > You rush to post a patch too quickly, sorry. When Sean and myself > disagree, it is better to leave time to both of us to respond. > > In this case, I'm against this method, so let's please find better > alternatives. > >> After thinking over my options here, a pre-push hook seemed better than >> commit-msg for two reasons: > > Pre-push hooks are an annoyance, because usually a push is supposed to > be a step that almost always succeeds. Going back to commits and > redoing them is a terrible nuisance. Moreover, in many cases I push > more than one commit, in which case rejection of one that is not the > last one is an even larger nuisance. > >> 2. LLM agents tend to try all possibilities - even bad ones[1] - to >> resolve failed commands. If we checked this in the commit-msg hook, an >> LLM that vibecoded a patch might well see the error from the hook and >> "fix" the problem by simply deleting the attribution, even without the >> user being aware. > > You seem to think about an LLM agent pushing commits? How is that > possible if the agent doesn't have write access? I understand your point about not wanting to encode an ever-growing list of e-mail addresses, Eli, so let's think about alternatives. I think that Jim has a good point about commit-msg vs. pre-push: I would be concerned about the LLM just removing the attribution in order to avoid the effects of the hook. Recent models are particularly notable for their persistence. It's somewhat reminiscent of the make-more-paperclips-by-any-means thought experiments. If we can make the pre-push hook not have annoying false positives, then we will still be in your preferred pushes-almost-always-succeed case, so maybe that would be okay. But this is all moot because right now, unfortunately, we don't have a proposal for detecting these commits. -- Sean Whitton
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81520) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jul 2026 07:46:52 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 31 03:46:52 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38871 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1wphxE-00037S-00 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 03:46:52 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42328) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wphxC-00037A-9P for 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 03:46:50 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wphx6-0002wl-Sj; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 03:46:44 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=9IDGABHGN7yD0YlYfQOI9sAwlSUv77n6pcne7Nw65HE=; b=WRphXTvHCfSv FgU+vdOGknE/K1XqkLlrOOxhMyjD6z2QK2kAyf16j7x12OeR1JQYqU9/eWvOkZOk6HAMR0dTEzgFD 1UPmLs7yJE84c4YyI+OctNSOx+vqVTZZhcDhCWmwiGVf9SEdvSqYYY4dwMyqVjNVdMbv3neptytEY 5/GxUwApX8THd9fKhmjWUY2rCLYdQPwaWciuvikwJ2BDlfpGQxu32uXCOfN4+H3MuXRATSzhJNnSG aYHP7TSCWqNcVvPLVFaBpag/lhdEi2S+StuZqT/u3Tlr6/vn6HbTf+CeDyvBnpY5/DA75mkrrNrCE 1ZmiLvDgp/g9Kn+Vpnz7jg==; Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 10:46:42 +0300 Message-Id: <86qzkjwqhp.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> (message from Jim Porter on Thu, 30 Jul 2026 17:06:57 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2026 17:06:57 -0700 > Cc: 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> > > On 7/30/2026 10:36 AM, Sean Whitton wrote: > > We explicitly permit it in CONTRIBUTE. > > > > So yeah, let's match on e-mail addresses. > > Ok, here's a patch series to do this locally. You rush to post a patch too quickly, sorry. When Sean and myself disagree, it is better to leave time to both of us to respond. In this case, I'm against this method, so let's please find better alternatives. > After thinking over my options here, a pre-push hook seemed better than > commit-msg for two reasons: Pre-push hooks are an annoyance, because usually a push is supposed to be a step that almost always succeeds. Going back to commits and redoing them is a terrible nuisance. Moreover, in many cases I push more than one commit, in which case rejection of one that is not the last one is an even larger nuisance. > 2. LLM agents tend to try all possibilities - even bad ones[1] - to > resolve failed commands. If we checked this in the commit-msg hook, an > LLM that vibecoded a patch might well see the error from the hook and > "fix" the problem by simply deleting the attribution, even without the > user being aware. You seem to think about an LLM agent pushing commits? How is that possible if the agent doesn't have write access?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81520) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jul 2026 07:26:41 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 31 03:26:41 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38700 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1wphdg-0001x6-S9 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 03:26:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39798) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wphde-0001wu-O2 for 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 03:26:39 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1wphdZ-00083H-8p; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 03:26:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=SbWK+S2vZ5sE19iINQcvJkRXBPMd/2hr3npMPbuHL4I=; b=KyWKfXe54sCl j52aZqVfm1jWS74AxPGtDbS2aetAKX2G1cOyKUhsoFV3FeX9r1EMVapIC41Dop62wTipm2AiTuD0C x0WjRwfpN5pZ3+Gmcx/Z+4xyxxEjTXY/KSZ56eX5HsBmHXYVDbMPKdX9DhekUvJYuYZmMOuLbklo+ H4O4yFAKGn8lTk0tclgoB2t4JAZWUVe8R/I26E6bWJ3UojroKAiUV9c4mI5iCtL/IANFvWsCVTGc4 YGcOOxzzJmJC4xq4dm/McjgcCRQKgF9NIXs0GQAprGFgtAK95C5eHSXDfqIvmQvK76Mv0+wDko4+t i+qBo+5lhe9dcD1SNJrWTQ==; Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 10:26:30 +0300 Message-Id: <86tspfwrfd.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Sean Whitton on Thu, 30 Jul 2026 18:36:19 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: jporterbugs@HIDDEN, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> > Cc: 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2026 18:36:19 +0100 > > Jim Porter [30/Jul 10:31am -07] wrote: > > I spent a little while researching options here, and the most common > > annotation is "Co-Authored-By: Some LLM <some_llm@HIDDEN>" followed > > by "Assisted-By: Some LLM". (The perhaps controversially named Kompromat > > site[1] links many examples and describes their detection criteria, > > which I've used as the basis of my implementation.) > > > > Unfortunately, in the Co-Authored-By case, ordinary humans are often > > co-authors, and there are a few commits in GNU Emacs master that already > > use Co-Authored-By to indicate multiple people worked on the commit. I > > think this is generally a good practice, since it makes the copyright > > situation explicit when multiple people have done legally-significant > > amounts of work in a single commit. > > > > If we want to permit using Co-Authored-By to list people, then I think > > the only option for detecting LLMs is using their email addresses. > > Luckily, the addresses themselves seem to be stable, though of course > > this list only covers the most popular options. That said, the vast > > majority of money spent on SaaSS LLMs goes to one of the listed providers. > > We explicitly permit it in CONTRIBUTE. And I never liked it, because it doesn't fit the attributions in ChangeLog files. > So yeah, let's match on e-mail addresses. Sorry, I'm firmly against that, for the reasons I already explained. I'd rather we disallowed Co-Authored-By and other similar headings.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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Thu, 30 Jul 2026 17:06:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.4] ([76.168.144.128]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 5a478bee46e88-31504d37368sm47678737eec.22.2026.07.30.17.06.57 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 30 Jul 2026 17:06:57 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------EFUFrRFv3LZNJ5LY5zWSkfH6" Message-ID: <48882f48-3619-136a-c979-81da09350917@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2026 17:06:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits Content-Language: en-US To: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------EFUFrRFv3LZNJ5LY5zWSkfH6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/30/2026 10:36 AM, Sean Whitton wrote: > We explicitly permit it in CONTRIBUTE. > > So yeah, let's match on e-mail addresses. Ok, here's a patch series to do this locally. The first patch is just cleaning up the existing pre-push hook to make it easier to work with, plus using some better-suited Git commands to get the SHAs that are about to be pushed. After thinking over my options here, a pre-push hook seemed better than commit-msg for two reasons: 1. We're only trying to prevent LLM-assisted commits from ending up on Savannah. Any such patches that the user keeps locally won't affect us. (Technically, this hook prevents pushing LLM-assisted commits anywhere, but I don't think it's worth trying to account for the case where someone wants to push such patches to another remote we don't control.) 2. LLM agents tend to try all possibilities - even bad ones[1] - to resolve failed commands. If we checked this in the commit-msg hook, an LLM that vibecoded a patch might well see the error from the hook and "fix" the problem by simply deleting the attribution, even without the user being aware. [1] I've heard tales of LLMs using Docker to copy files to root-controlled directories without having been granted root permissions. --------------EFUFrRFv3LZNJ5LY5zWSkfH6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; name="0001-Simplify-commit-msg-file-hook.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Simplify-commit-msg-file-hook.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RnJvbSA0MGUyZjliYmY2MGQzNDg0ODRkYzEyNTFhOTdiZmQ4OGNmZTFjY2M0IE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBKaW0gUG9ydGVyIDxqcG9ydGVyYnVnc0BnbWFpbC5j b20+CkRhdGU6IFRodSwgMzAgSnVsIDIwMjYgMTQ6MzE6NDUgLTA3MDAKU3ViamVjdDogW1BB VENIIDEvMl0gU2ltcGxpZnkgY29tbWl0IG1zZyBmaWxlIGhvb2sKCiogYnVpbGQtYXV4L2dp dC1ob29rcy9jb21taXQtbXNnLWZpbGVzLmF3ayAoZ2V0X2NvbW1pdF9jaGFuZ2VzKTogVXNl CiJnaXQgZGlmZi10cmVlIiB0byBzaW1wbGlmeSBwYXJzaW5nIG9mIHRvdWNoZWQgZmlsZXMu CgoqIGJ1aWxkLWF1eC9naXQtaG9va3MvcHJlLXB1c2g6IFVzZSBhIHNpbXBsZXIgaW52b2Nh dGlvbiBvZiAiZ2l0CnJldi1saXN0IiB0byBnZXQgYWxsIGNvbW1pdHMgdG8gYmUgcHVzaGVk 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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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Thu, 30 Jul 2026 13:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by zephyr.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B14BD94659F; Thu, 30 Jul 2026 18:36:19 +0100 (BST) From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> To: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits In-Reply-To: <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> <86fr11xasp.fsf@HIDDEN> <c79a1edc-f825-22e3-79d7-b979f8674c0d@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2026 18:36:19 +0100 Message-ID: <8733x0crcc.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 Cc: 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Jim Porter [30/Jul 10:31am -07] wrote: > I spent a little while researching options here, and the most common > annotation is "Co-Authored-By: Some LLM <some_llm@HIDDEN>" followed > by "Assisted-By: Some LLM". (The perhaps controversially named Kompromat > site[1] links many examples and describes their detection criteria, > which I've used as the basis of my implementation.) > > Unfortunately, in the Co-Authored-By case, ordinary humans are often > co-authors, and there are a few commits in GNU Emacs master that already > use Co-Authored-By to indicate multiple people worked on the commit. I > think this is generally a good practice, since it makes the copyright > situation explicit when multiple people have done legally-significant > amounts of work in a single commit. > > If we want to permit using Co-Authored-By to list people, then I think > the only option for detecting LLMs is using their email addresses. > Luckily, the addresses themselves seem to be stable, though of course > this list only covers the most popular options. That said, the vast > majority of money spent on SaaSS LLMs goes to one of the listed providers. We explicitly permit it in CONTRIBUTE. So yeah, let's match on e-mail addresses. -- Sean Whitton
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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On 7/29/2026 11:15 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Cc: spwhitton@HIDDEN
>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2026 18:54:13 -0700
>> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
>>
>> # A list of LLM-associated email addresses to reject.
>> BAD_EMAILS="\
>> noreply@HIDDEN
>> codex@HIDDEN
>> copilot@HIDDEN"
>
> IMNSHO, this is not the best way of doing this, far from it. We don't
> want to start an "arms race" of having all the LLM-based agents in our
> hooks, definitely not based on their email addresses, which can change
> without notice.
I spent a little while researching options here, and the most common
annotation is "Co-Authored-By: Some LLM <some_llm@HIDDEN>" followed
by "Assisted-By: Some LLM". (The perhaps controversially named Kompromat
site[1] links many examples and describes their detection criteria,
which I've used as the basis of my implementation.)
Unfortunately, in the Co-Authored-By case, ordinary humans are often
co-authors, and there are a few commits in GNU Emacs master that already
use Co-Authored-By to indicate multiple people worked on the commit. I
think this is generally a good practice, since it makes the copyright
situation explicit when multiple people have done legally-significant
amounts of work in a single commit.
If we want to permit using Co-Authored-By to list people, then I think
the only option for detecting LLMs is using their email addresses.
Luckily, the addresses themselves seem to be stable, though of course
this list only covers the most popular options. That said, the vast
majority of money spent on SaaSS LLMs goes to one of the listed providers.
> Using 'index' can easily cause false positives, as it only matches the
> prefix of a string. If we are going to look for specific addresses
> (which I hope we won't), we will need as more accurate method of
> matching.
Sounds good to me. I can make the logic here more precise, assuming we
agree that checking email addresses is the least-bad option.
>> if (status == 0) {
>> print("LLM-encumbered commits found in \'" ref "\'")
>> print("Please remove the following commits and try again:")
>
> This should be worded differently, something like
>
> Commits found in $REF seem to be LLM-assisted
>
> It should also show the specific lines that caused this conclusion,
> since the user doesn't (and shouldn't) know what are the patterns we
> look for, and there seems to be no simple way to identify the parts of
> the commit that trigger the rejection. Bonus points for having some
> way of asking for the phrases or strings which should not appear in
> the log message.
Will do. Thanks for taking a look at this.
[1] https://asta.boserup.eu/forest/kompromat
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Thu, 30 Jul 2026 06:40:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by melete.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5BB147E7BB4; Thu, 30 Jul 2026 11:40:46 +0100 (BST) From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> To: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>, 81520 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits In-Reply-To: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2026 11:40:46 +0100 Message-ID: <87bjbodakx.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81520 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Jim Porter [29/Jul 6:54pm -07] wrote: > X-Debbugs-CC: spwhitton@HIDDEN > > As discussed on emacs-devel, here's a small Git hook that we can install > on Savannah to reject commits with LLM attributions. This will hopefully > let us avoid force-pushes in the future to remove any such commits (or > less-drastic measures like reverting them). > > After some thought, I opted to do this as a pre-receive hook on Savannah > instead of a commit-msg or pre-push hook in people's local clones. This > way, only people with commit access will see the error. I think we can > and should trust those with commit rights, but others may take the error > as impetus to hide their LLM usage. (Since this is simply a best-effort > script to make life easier for maintainers, I'm not too worried about > this being "security through obscurity".) We already have a simple pre-receive hook that rejects commits that we've previously force-pushed to get rid of (currently it only lists the most recent case). So your pre-receive hook would need to be integrated with that code. But I think keeping a very simple pre-receive hook is desirable when we can't edit it without going through the Savannah admins each time. So, I think this should be a local hook. -- Sean Whitton
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> (message from
Jim Porter on Wed, 29 Jul 2026 18:54:13 -0700)
Subject: Re: bug#81520: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject
LLM-encumbered commits
References: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN>
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> Cc: spwhitton@HIDDEN
> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2026 18:54:13 -0700
> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
>
> # This hook runs before receiving commits from a client and checks that
> # none of the commits contain any LLM attributions. Specifically, this
> # checks that none of the author, committer, or the Co-Authored-By or
> # Co-Developed-By fields contain an email address associated with an
> # LLM. Additionally, it rejects all commits with Assisted-By or
> # AI-Assisted fields.
>
> ### Code:
>
> # A list of LLM-associated email addresses to reject.
> BAD_EMAILS="\
> noreply@HIDDEN
> codex@HIDDEN
> copilot@HIDDEN"
IMNSHO, this is not the best way of doing this, far from it. We don't
want to start an "arms race" of having all the LLM-based agents in our
hooks, definitely not based on their email addresses, which can change
without notice.
> # Get a list of all the SHAs not reachable from some already-present
> # commit and validate them.
> git rev-list $new_oid --not --all | \
> awk -v bad_emails="$BAD_EMAILS" -v ref="$ref_name" $'
> function check_email(email_line) {
> # Returns non-zero if the line contains a bad email address.
> for (i in BAD_EMAILS) {
> if (index(email_line, BAD_EMAILS[i]))
Using 'index' can easily cause false positives, as it only matches the
prefix of a string. If we are going to look for specific addresses
(which I hope we won't), we will need as more accurate method of
matching.
> if (status == 0) {
> print("LLM-encumbered commits found in \'" ref "\'")
> print("Please remove the following commits and try again:")
This should be worded differently, something like
Commits found in $REF seem to be LLM-assisted
It should also show the specific lines that caused this conclusion,
since the user doesn't (and shouldn't) know what are the patterns we
look for, and there seems to be no simple way to identify the parts of
the commit that trigger the rejection. Bonus points for having some
way of asking for the phrases or strings which should not appear in
the log message.
Thanks.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
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Wed, 29 Jul 2026 18:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.4] ([76.168.144.128]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id a92af1059eb24-13e7262bc27sm18791897c88.2.2026.07.29.18.54.13 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 29 Jul 2026 18:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------oYZg8UsPHqhrUH6j0pJ3mk7Y" Message-ID: <3b2b1472-3f71-8710-9996-80d26a104b27@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2026 18:54:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mozilla-News-Host: news://news.gmane.io:119 Content-Language: en-US To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> Subject: Add pre-receive hook to Savannah to reject LLM-encumbered commits Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::533; envelope-from=jporterbugs@HIDDEN; helo=mail-pg1-x533.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------oYZg8UsPHqhrUH6j0pJ3mk7Y Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Debbugs-CC: spwhitton@HIDDEN As discussed on emacs-devel, here's a small Git hook that we can install on Savannah to reject commits with LLM attributions. This will hopefully let us avoid force-pushes in the future to remove any such commits (or less-drastic measures like reverting them). After some thought, I opted to do this as a pre-receive hook on Savannah instead of a commit-msg or pre-push hook in people's local clones. This way, only people with commit access will see the error. I think we can and should trust those with commit rights, but others may take the error as impetus to hide their LLM usage. (Since this is simply a best-effort script to make life easier for maintainers, I'm not too worried about this being "security through obscurity".) If this hook fails, the user will see something like the following message: > remote: LLM-encumbered commits found in 'refs/heads/some-branch' > remote: Please remove the following commits and try again: > remote: 01ac47fe Some commit message > remote: ca40f33f Another commit message > To username@HIDDEN:/srv/git/emacs.git > ! [remote rejected] some-branch -> some-branch (pre-receive hook declined) > error: failed to push some refs to 'username@HIDDEN:/srv/git/emacs.git' I've lightly tested this with some local repositories pointing to each other, and everything seems to work. However, a bit more testing/review from the resident Git experts would probably be wise before we install this. --------------oYZg8UsPHqhrUH6j0pJ3mk7Y Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; name="pre-receive" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pre-receive" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 IyEvYmluL2Jhc2gKIyBDaGVjayB0aGUgaW5jb21pbmcgY29tbWl0cyB0byByZWplY3QgTExN LWVuY3VtYmVyZWQgY2hhbmdlcy4KCiMgQ29weXJpZ2h0IDIwMjYgRnJlZSBTb2Z0d2FyZSBG b3VuZGF0aW9uLCBJbmMuCgojIFRoaXMgZmlsZSBpcyBwYXJ0IG9mIEdOVSBFbWFjcy4KCiMg R05VIEVtYWNzIGlzIGZyZWUgc29mdHdhcmU6IHlvdSBjYW4gcmVkaXN0cmlidXRlIGl0IGFu ZC9vciBtb2RpZnkKIyBpdCB1bmRlciB0aGUgdGVybXMgb2YgdGhlIEdOVSBHZW5lcmFsIFB1 YmxpYyBMaWNlbnNlIGFzIHB1Ymxpc2hlZCBieQojIHRoZSBGcmVlIFNvZnR3YXJlIEZvdW5k YXRpb24sIGVpdGhlciB2ZXJzaW9uIDMgb2YgdGhlIExpY2Vuc2UsIG9yCiMgKGF0IHlvdXIg b3B0aW9uKSBhbnkgbGF0ZXIgdmVyc2lvbi4KCiMgR05VIEVtYWNzIGlzIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGVk IGluIHRoZSBob3BlIHRoYXQgaXQgd2lsbCBiZSB1c2VmdWwsCiMgYnV0IFdJVEhPVVQgQU5Z IFdBUlJBTlRZOyB3aXRob3V0IGV2ZW4gdGhlIGltcGxpZWQgd2FycmFudHkgb2YKIyBNRVJD SEFOVEFCSUxJVFkgb3IgRklUTkVTUyBGT1IgQSBQQVJUSUNVTEFSIFBVUlBPU0UuICBTZWUg dGhlCiMgR05VIEdlbmVyYWwgUHVibGljIExpY2Vuc2UgZm9yIG1vcmUgZGV0YWlscy4KCiMg WW91IHNob3VsZCBoYXZlIHJlY2VpdmVkIGEgY29weSBvZiB0aGUgR05VIEdlbmVyYWwgUHVi bGljIExpY2Vuc2UKIyBhbG9uZyB3aXRoIEdOVSBFbWFjcy4gIElmIG5vdCwgc2VlIDxodHRw czovL3d3dy5nbnUub3JnL2xpY2Vuc2VzLz4uCgojIyMgQ29tbWVudGFyeToKCiMgVGhpcyBo b29rIHJ1bnMgYmVmb3JlIHJlY2VpdmluZyBjb21taXRzIGZyb20gYSBjbGllbnQgYW5kIGNo ZWNrcyB0aGF0CiMgbm9uZSBvZiB0aGUgY29tbWl0cyBjb250YWluIGFueSBMTE0gYXR0cmli dXRpb25zLiBTcGVjaWZpY2FsbHksIHRoaXMKIyBjaGVja3MgdGhhdCBub25lIG9mIHRoZSBh dXRob3IsIGNvbW1pdHRlciwgb3IgdGhlIENvLUF1dGhvcmVkLUJ5IG9yCiMgQ28tRGV2ZWxv cGVkLUJ5IGZpZWxkcyBjb250YWluIGFuIGVtYWlsIGFkZHJlc3MgYXNzb2NpYXRlZCB3aXRo IGFuCiMgTExNLiBBZGRpdGlvbmFsbHksIGl0IHJlamVjdHMgYWxsIGNvbW1pdHMgd2l0aCBB c3Npc3RlZC1CeSBvcgojIEFJLUFzc2lzdGVkIGZpZWxkcy4KCiMjIyBDb2RlOgoKIyBBIGxp c3Qgb2YgTExNLWFzc29jaWF0ZWQgZW1haWwgYWRkcmVzc2VzIHRvIHJlamVjdC4KQkFEX0VN QUlMUz0iXApub3JlcGx5QGFudGhyb3BpYy5jb20KY29kZXhAb3BlbmFpLmNvbQpjb3BpbG90 QHVzZXJzLm5vcmVwbHkuZ2l0aHViLmNvbSIKCk5VTExfUkVGPSIwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAw MDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwIgoKc2V0IC1lCgojIFByZWZlciBnYXdrIGlmIGF2 YWlsYWJsZSwgYXMgaXQgaGFuZGxlcyBOVUwgYnl0ZXMgcHJvcGVybHkuCmlmIHR5cGUgZ2F3 ayA+L2Rldi9udWxsIDI+JjE7IHRoZW4KICBhd2s9Imdhd2siCmVsc2UKICBhd2s9ImF3ayIK ZmkKCndoaWxlIHJlYWQgb2xkX29pZCBuZXdfb2lkIHJlZl9uYW1lOyBkbwogIGlmIFsgIiRu ZXdfb2lkIiA9ICIkTlVMTF9SRUYiIF07IHRoZW4gIyBEZWxldGVkIHRoZSByZWYuCiAgICBj b250aW51ZQogIGZpCgogICMgR2V0IGEgbGlzdCBvZiBhbGwgdGhlIFNIQXMgbm90IHJlYWNo YWJsZSBmcm9tIHNvbWUgYWxyZWFkeS1wcmVzZW50CiAgIyBjb21taXQgYW5kIHZhbGlkYXRl IHRoZW0uCiAgZ2l0IHJldi1saXN0ICRuZXdfb2lkIC0tbm90IC0tYWxsIHwgXAogICAgYXdr IC12IGJhZF9lbWFpbHM9IiRCQURfRU1BSUxTIiAtdiByZWY9IiRyZWZfbmFtZSIgJCcKICAg ICAgZnVuY3Rpb24gY2hlY2tfZW1haWwoZW1haWxfbGluZSkgewogICAgICAgICMgUmV0dXJu cyBub24temVybyBpZiB0aGUgbGluZSBjb250YWlucyBhIGJhZCBlbWFpbCBhZGRyZXNzLgog ICAgICAgIGZvciAoaSBpbiBCQURfRU1BSUxTKSB7CiAgICAgICAgICBpZiAoaW5kZXgoZW1h aWxfbGluZSwgQkFEX0VNQUlMU1tpXSkpCiAgICAgICAgICAgIHJldHVybiAxCiAgICAgICAg fQogICAgICAgIHJldHVybiAwCiAgICAgIH0KCiAgICAgIGZ1bmN0aW9uIGNoZWNrX2NvbW1p dChjb21taXRfc2hhLCAgICBoZWFkZXIpIHsKICAgICAgICAjIFJldHVybnMgbm9uLXplcm8g aWYgdGhlIGNvbW1pdCBjb250YWlucyBhbnkgTExNIGF0dHJpYnV0aW9ucy4KICAgICAgICBj bWQgPSAoImdpdCBzaG93IC1zIC0tZm9ybWF0PVwnQXV0aG9yOiAlYWUlbkNvbW1pdHRlcjog JWNlJW4lQlwnICIgXAogICAgICAgICAgICAgICBjb21taXRfc2hhKQogICAgICAgIHdoaWxl ICgoY21kIHwgZ2V0bGluZSkgPiAwKSB7CiAgICAgICAgICBoZWFkZXIgPSB0b2xvd2VyKCQx KQogICAgICAgICAgaWYgKGhlYWRlciB+IC9eKGF1dGhvcnxjb21taXR0ZXJ8Y28tKGF1dGhv cmVkfGRldmVsb3BlZCktYnkpOiQvICYmCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgY2hlY2tfZW1haWwoJDAp KSB7CiAgICAgICAgICAgIHJldHVybiAxCiAgICAgICAgICB9CiAgICAgICAgICBlbHNlIGlm KGhlYWRlciB+IC9eKGFzc2lzdGVkLWJ5fGFpLWFzc2lzdGVkKTokLykgewogICAgICAgICAg ICByZXR1cm4gMQogICAgICAgICAgfQogICAgICAgIH0KICAgICAgICBjbG9zZShjbWQpCiAg ICAgICAgcmV0dXJuIDAKICAgICAgfQoKICAgICAgQkVHSU4gewogICAgICAgIHN0YXR1cyA9 IDAKICAgICAgICBzcGxpdChiYWRfZW1haWxzLCBCQURfRU1BSUxTLCAiXFxuIikKICAgICAg fQoKICAgICAgL15bYS16MC05XXs0MH0kLyB7CiAgICAgICAgY29tbWl0ID0gJDAKICAgICAg ICBpZiAoY2hlY2tfY29tbWl0KGNvbW1pdCkpIHsKICAgICAgICAgIGlmIChzdGF0dXMgPT0g MCkgewogICAgICAgICAgICBwcmludCgiTExNLWVuY3VtYmVyZWQgY29tbWl0cyBmb3VuZCBp biBcJyIgcmVmICJcJyIpCiAgICAgICAgICAgIHByaW50KCJQbGVhc2UgcmVtb3ZlIHRoZSBm b2xsb3dpbmcgY29tbWl0cyBhbmQgdHJ5IGFnYWluOiIpCiAgICAgICAgICB9CiAgICAgICAg ICBzeXN0ZW0oImdpdCBzaG93IC1zIC0tZm9ybWF0PVwnICAlQyh5ZWxsb3cpJWglQ3Jlc2V0 ICVzXCcgIiBjb21taXQpCiAgICAgICAgICBzdGF0dXMgPSAxCiAgICAgICAgfQogICAgICB9 CgogICAgICBFTkQgewogICAgICAgIGV4aXQgc3RhdHVzCiAgICAgIH0nCmRvbmUK --------------oYZg8UsPHqhrUH6j0pJ3mk7Y--
Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>:spwhitton@HIDDEN, bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.spwhitton@HIDDEN, bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81520; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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