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From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if
a display server is not available
In-Reply-To: <864if81hfn.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN>
<86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN>
<CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN>
<87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN>
<CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN>
<87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN>
<eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN>
<CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN>
<87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN>
<CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN>
<293a3beaae1bf2c423059df254f59552@HIDDEN>
<CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN>
<42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN>
<c45233ae6515a5860415999dd256f60e@HIDDEN>
<CA+TD5hg6hsEi-5puWL-BqNGhrXyF2oxjEjTxLbKT6FUAZ-xFBw@HIDDEN>
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<aa63d4e5c9a3277063cf3b8b6e587d1d@HIDDEN>
<875wzo5r9z.fsf@HIDDEN> <864if81hfn.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2026 12:13:51 +0100
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Eli Zaretskii [29/Sep 1:27pm +03] wrote:
>> From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN>
>> Cc: johan.myreen@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, luangruo@HIDDEN,
>> rudalics@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2026 10:40:56 +0100
>>
>> Jared Finder [28/Sep 8:39am -07] wrote:
>> > +The X Window System, Wayland, and Broadway windowing systems use
>> > +environment variables to tell clients where to display their windows.
>> > +The values are set by default in ordinary circumstances, when you start
>> > +a display server and run jobs locally. Only PGTK Emacs@footnote{An
>> > +Emacs bulid configured with @option{--with-pgtk}. This can be checked by
>> > +evaluating @code{(featurep 'pgtk)}.} can run on Wayland or Broadway
>> > +natively.
>>
>> Please do this inline instead of using a footnote, it's not really
>> footnote material. Or you could just xref the relevant node.
>>
>> Otherwise LGTM, though let's hear from at least Eli.
>
> Moving the test for PGTK build to a footnote was my request.
Ah okay. It seems strange for a footnote to me, but it's okay if you
prefer it.
--
Sean Whitton
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2026 13:27:08 +0300
Message-Id: <864if81hfn.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <875wzo5r9z.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Sean
Whitton on Tue, 29 Sep 2026 10:40:56 +0100)
Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if
a display server is not available
References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN>
<4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN>
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<87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN>
<CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN>
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<CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN>
<42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN>
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> From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN>
> Cc: johan.myreen@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, luangruo@HIDDEN,
> rudalics@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2026 10:40:56 +0100
>
> Jared Finder [28/Sep 8:39am -07] wrote:
> > +The X Window System, Wayland, and Broadway windowing systems use
> > +environment variables to tell clients where to display their windows.
> > +The values are set by default in ordinary circumstances, when you start
> > +a display server and run jobs locally. Only PGTK Emacs@footnote{An
> > +Emacs bulid configured with @option{--with-pgtk}. This can be checked by
> > +evaluating @code{(featurep 'pgtk)}.} can run on Wayland or Broadway
> > +natively.
>
> Please do this inline instead of using a footnote, it's not really
> footnote material. Or you could just xref the relevant node.
>
> Otherwise LGTM, though let's hear from at least Eli.
Moving the test for PGTK build to a footnote was my request.
My only other comment is that the separate sections for each of the 3
window-systems are too short, and it would be better to have them in
the same section. But I don't object to leaving them separate, if
Jared prefers that.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN>
To: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if
a display server is not available
In-Reply-To: <aa63d4e5c9a3277063cf3b8b6e587d1d@HIDDEN>
References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN>
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Jared Finder [28/Sep 8:39am -07] wrote:
> +The X Window System, Wayland, and Broadway windowing systems use
> +environment variables to tell clients where to display their windows.
> +The values are set by default in ordinary circumstances, when you start
> +a display server and run jobs locally. Only PGTK Emacs@footnote{An
> +Emacs bulid configured with @option{--with-pgtk}. This can be checked by
> +evaluating @code{(featurep 'pgtk)}.} can run on Wayland or Broadway
> +natively.
Please do this inline instead of using a footnote, it's not really
footnote material. Or you could just xref the relevant node.
Otherwise LGTM, though let's hear from at least Eli.
--
Sean Whitton
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2026 07:45:21 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 29 03:45:20 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51589 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1xBSWa-0005lR-OE for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2026 03:45:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40680) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yavor@HIDDEN>) id 1xBSWR-0005kX-Ll for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2026 03:45:11 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <yavor@HIDDEN>) id 1xBSWK-0006Bs-On; Tue, 29 Sep 2026 03:45:00 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To:From: Date; bh=Dt3BYT45at7mtoqx45dPuDtuAuxyJjdSuvNbZIiDjRw=; b=jOM1+W68P6vZea9UEMsA EpeYTy+h72qbdicBTaJIVIyQ6IyLcvtUqlbFVnhZ6GrYex4OUYwSNF31zUyqPif531MZ37YvCNdcn cWvobz23XMWUK2TFqOSdjzECm9K84W1EhN6vOvLAeCiSiT9AvOgf26fA0WcRN3sHTmqc6b0zAGhPT 06yTiOVT/wTqISx77tE0CreXjO2E1UcW0hi00oSzNkf1h2MiHCcuXIqBaJBibDNKAUS6LUn27cwH/ z98cdxVoEgtTfw2xta3xwHwXWNoznB1Vi+6cv1guQSoyU5s+hn9YuTwfNDmA/sJ7+DvRYlX2wLruh QIo6f5d2jAXfCA==; Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2026 10:44:49 +0300 Message-ID: <8733usjyby.GNU's_not_UNIX!-yavor@HIDDEN> From: Yavor Doganov <yavor@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available In-Reply-To: <86o6dg1upb.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> <87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN> <293a3beaae1bf2c423059df254f59552@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN> <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> <c45233ae6515a5860415999dd256f60e@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hg6hsEi-5puWL-BqNGhrXyF2oxjEjTxLbKT6FUAZ-xFBw@HIDDEN> <8467ef43ccb5c702f977f2cd7b525460@HIDDEN> <86ecef5laz.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgMC7NudSOAQbLK7C6uKOqVkTYzvUX1gY0Sj_7R+ZwunQ@HIDDEN> <86jyo64nkm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgLGkHBnGAJStMHkmWtcBwty-x1eqeR=G_O4GG4GbW4ow@HIDDEN> <86cxty3q94.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhAgfU6BtvXWs-LeotPZx6rJCaM1fw4gpBzxgAqSjSEgA@HIDDEN> <87o6dgepz2.GNU's_not_UNIX!-yavor@HIDDEN> <86o6dg1upb.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) SEMI-EPG/1.14.7 (Harue) FLIM-LB/1.14.9 (=?UTF-8?B?R29qxY0=?=) APEL-LB/10.8 EasyPG/1.0.0 Emacs/30.2 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MULE/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Organization: The GNU Emacs Church (Bulgarian Eparchy) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: yavor@HIDDEN, jared@HIDDEN, luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, johan.myreen@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Yavor Doganov <yavor@HIDDEN> > > Johan Myréen wrote: > > > Pgtk makes less sense than w32, ns, pc, haiku, and android because > > > those systems only have one integrated display server that does not > > > have a separate name, or at least not a well-known separate name. > > > > This is not true for the GNUstep port (HAVE_NS && NS_IMPL_GNUSTEP): > > GNUstep has a Wayland backend. Emacs works only with the cairo/X11 > > backend (something that should probably be documented in etc/PROBLEMS). > > Feel free to suggest an item for PROBLEMS, but please make sure it > starts with a description of a problem, like an error message if the > user tries to build PGTK on GNUstep or something similar. Or maybe > the right way is not to mention this in PROBLEMS, but to add an error > message in the configure script when such a combination is requested, > rather than silently ignore PGTK in that case (if that's what we do > now; I didn't check). There is some misunderstanding here. I was just questioning Johan's statement that NS assumes a system with "only one integrated display server". (I suggested mentioning in etc/PROBLEMS that the NS port of Emacs on GNUstep works *only* with the GNUstep cairo backend and this has nothing to do with this bug report; sorry for causing confusion.)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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Emacs works only with the cairo/X11 > backend (something that should probably be documented in etc/PROBLEMS). Feel free to suggest an item for PROBLEMS, but please make sure it starts with a description of a problem, like an error message if the user tries to build PGTK on GNUstep or something similar. Or maybe the right way is not to mention this in PROBLEMS, but to add an error message in the configure script when such a combination is requested, rather than silently ignore PGTK in that case (if that's what we do now; I didn't check).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2026 04:07:37 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 29 00:07:36 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47281 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1xBP7r-0001S0-0D for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2026 00:07:35 -0400 Received: from greenhill.hpalace.com ([192.155.80.58]:40528) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jared@HIDDEN>) id 1xBP7j-0001RP-B1 for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2026 00:07:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=finder.org; s=2018; t=1790654841; bh=6Rt2DlOpC8mYVpjLl5js0KvCUCdaD7evELbKv9FuYGc=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=pCyA7yKqofaSSAxLsnM23bSnY1vD1yV2AZi92Ap8kqWwSCmDtYKEaOC2cSclGhVaH cLGImvY+/NLrXtwHCw3CrjxRkclOj0e5TiHXDzSE90+8ZkDQmEEALoNPlKvrZif0NV GG5xwsrQb24u1rKdg4bJymmWaAlFkJViP8ZF13wdLkfK41yNSPx8fo4wUyR6lLDzj+ xj6jBUiVMhb90TD7gks20h096R90WeYeaeGF+U+D2En687H9KpBIPlvil8S+W1K82W XHfnCQi1nQBeEJKZu8zrNC3gmpvnaUzQBAQBdsPz93B+xcGB09/9wrLq6BZ2LeLUwe 1VTmH80cR38GA== Received: from mail.finder.org (unknown [192.155.80.58]) by greenhill.hpalace.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BB4C21B1; Tue, 29 Sep 2026 04:07:21 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2026 21:07:21 -0700 From: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> To: =?UTF-8?Q?Johan_Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hhAgfU6BtvXWs-LeotPZx6rJCaM1fw4gpBzxgAqSjSEgA@HIDDEN> References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> <87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN> <293a3beaae1bf2c423059df254f59552@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN> <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> <c45233ae6515a5860415999dd256f60e@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hg6hsEi-5puWL-BqNGhrXyF2oxjEjTxLbKT6FUAZ-xFBw@HIDDEN> <8467ef43ccb5c702f977f2cd7b525460@HIDDEN> <86ecef5laz.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgMC7NudSOAQbLK7C6uKOqVkTYzvUX1gY0Sj_7R+ZwunQ@HIDDEN> <86jyo64nkm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgLGkHBnGAJStMHkmWtcBwty-x1eqeR=G_O4GG4GbW4ow@HIDDEN> <86cxty3q94.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhAgfU6BtvXWs-LeotPZx6rJCaM1fw4gpBzxgAqSjSEgA@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <cf6f71b6744207d54a27854bd5df748e@HIDDEN> X-Sender: jared@HIDDEN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2026-09-28 01:25, Johan Myréen wrote: > There are also practical considerations: given the name of the > window-system function, > one would expect it to return the name of the windowing system, > differentiating between > X11 and Wayland. What else would it be for? This is also not just > hypothetical: since there > are some differences in the behaviour between Wayland and X11, an Elisp > programmer > could benefit from the function not returning "pgtk" in both cases. > > To sum up, I think the symbol pgtk is nonsensical for two reasons: the > name, and the > fact that the same symbol is returned by (window-system) for two > different underlying > windowing systems. The challenge here is that Emacs has lots of names for historical reasons that are awkward now. Try to explain to someone who is new to computers what "yank" and "kill" mean. (Sounds very violent!) Or "frames". Or "Meta", which means the key labeled A-L-T. Or "visiting" files, which you do by "finding" them. And that's not to talk about the names inherited from Lisp like cadadr, rplaca, nconc, ... These terms all made sense at one point in time, I'd assume. I wouldn't know, I only started using Emacs in the early 2000s with Emacs 21.3 and even at that point all the above names were already in place. Emacs was already 20 years old! Emacs has accumulated a lot of old and now awkward names specifically because it has tried to maintain backward compatibility at the Emacs Lisp source level. In this case, I think of window-system as a function / variable that should actually named display-subsystem and returns the prefix in front of the "term.c" file that is active for that frame. And from that perspective, it makes sense. (Except for 'pc which is actually in msdos.c. Oh well.) If something here is particularly confusing it can be solved via function documentation and in the Emacs / Elisp manuals. -- MJF
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2026 02:44:53 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 28 22:44:53 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33968 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1xBNps-0004yl-UP for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 22:44:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35452) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yavor@HIDDEN>) id 1xBNpp-0004yM-QO for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 22:44:50 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <yavor@HIDDEN>) id 1xBNph-0004PA-Py; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 22:44:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To:From: Date; bh=JEzht0qRdR3WPG53OQZ6dXtCnSIt2fP21XRTlfYzfaQ=; b=J/p8W+adhoViB+qgl2np aIUMbEB2Fs19OweGOf0vycQZxSvcoLYRHoFVTZSaj5nCmDS5cWac5hyI+kGGTnqkRq1czDhRf7I66 KpChiuyHNt8QFH3uFxphWylDrxtOVd7U9xSaybUlzDF2iBDxYLNlxOsomynFeWlPmg/nxnSahNQtv SYg07+AlxCQVUWhxlcQW3PddYT65Lrikn0MAr/ei97eW7PguntFEKQZ6pf90pAy1q3heNIOJRyWr6 IVjAK0a+5FrRbywm/Crn+fkoIq/7sJb7O1X37Op2bZzokvus0ncUmRRL8d5vpN1MlbAraclLNG87m og8LdaaWLr4sqQ==; Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2026 05:44:17 +0300 Message-ID: <87o6dgepz2.GNU's_not_UNIX!-yavor@HIDDEN> From: Yavor Doganov <yavor@HIDDEN> To: Johan =?UTF-8?B?TXlyw6llbg==?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hhAgfU6BtvXWs-LeotPZx6rJCaM1fw4gpBzxgAqSjSEgA@HIDDEN> References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> <87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN> <293a3beaae1bf2c423059df254f59552@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN> <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> <c45233ae6515a5860415999dd256f60e@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hg6hsEi-5puWL-BqNGhrXyF2oxjEjTxLbKT6FUAZ-xFBw@HIDDEN> <8467ef43ccb5c702f977f2cd7b525460@HIDDEN> <86ecef5laz.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgMC7NudSOAQbLK7C6uKOqVkTYzvUX1gY0Sj_7R+ZwunQ@HIDDEN> <86jyo64nkm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgLGkHBnGAJStMHkmWtcBwty-x1eqeR=G_O4GG4GbW4ow@HIDDEN> <86cxty3q94.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhAgfU6BtvXWs-LeotPZx6rJCaM1fw4gpBzxgAqSjSEgA@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) SEMI-EPG/1.14.7 (Harue) FLIM-LB/1.14.9 (=?UTF-8?B?R29qxY0=?=) APEL-LB/10.8 EasyPG/1.0.0 Emacs/30.2 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MULE/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Organization: The GNU Emacs Church (Bulgarian Eparchy) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: jared@HIDDEN, luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, eliz@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Johan Myréen wrote: > Pgtk makes less sense than w32, ns, pc, haiku, and android because > those systems only have one integrated display server that does not > have a separate name, or at least not a well-known separate name. This is not true for the GNUstep port (HAVE_NS && NS_IMPL_GNUSTEP): GNUstep has a Wayland backend. Emacs works only with the cairo/X11 backend (something that should probably be documented in etc/PROBLEMS).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Sep 2026 16:04:20 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 28 12:04:20 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43807 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1xBDpy-0000mL-KE for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 12:04:20 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:29871) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <monnier@HIDDEN>) id 1xBDpu-0000kE-4j for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 12:04:16 -0400 Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 4E35280C9F; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 12:04:08 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1790611447; bh=6OI2PXpvKVfU5USIsMZlqNjesJDC0Rhg++/yoFFRTZI=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=AaHJj2vyrP1FTRBUuZbJtCW+q8Qgmdh/1kC6qC8TuwBVTCp0aMJcB8rJAUSEKIIPB +XfoWv/pO6qATD9WTvyH3FNyoVnE0Fk/QnlMVmKXj3jMqav50c4x5iWmR0+tYgSsmJ 5NuDW+qSHShrQlEOpk6mWS/fAE3NE0rqDKp+9Qi9ZFeWIEvLZGLMMHgYdM7hzO9dXg JUkWd/3wN25XShNxxv0KjujCoqd+6Kq0l0FWRvFjKVAfGeDc67CWVpuV429mTq4Fbu S69MUJ20hN9wZdRpkTDIlGQhmg0tGmj5lfomcGMIfHszOYK70CSUdmDVXfwN+Xo71n uUJAtQO1XaSOw== Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 99E5D80796; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 12:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lechazo (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7B89A120B79; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 12:04:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> To: Johan =?windows-1252?Q?Myr=E9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hhAgfU6BtvXWs-LeotPZx6rJCaM1fw4gpBzxgAqSjSEgA@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <jwvy0clgykq.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> <87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN> <293a3beaae1bf2c423059df254f59552@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN> <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> <c45233ae6515a5860415999dd256f60e@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hg6hsEi-5puWL-BqNGhrXyF2oxjEjTxLbKT6FUAZ-xFBw@HIDDEN> <8467ef43ccb5c702f977f2cd7b525460@HIDDEN> <86ecef5laz.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgMC7NudSOAQbLK7C6uKOqVkTYzvUX1gY0Sj_7R+ZwunQ@HIDDEN> <86jyo64nkm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgLGkHBnGAJStMHkmWtcBwty-x1eqeR=G_O4GG4GbW4ow@HIDDEN> <86cxty3q94.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhAgfU6BtvXWs-LeotPZx6rJCaM1fw4gpBzxgAqSjSEgA@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2026 12:04:06 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL 0.067 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: jared@HIDDEN, luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Pgtk is not the name of a windowing system / display server, don't > you agree? Emacs is designed under the premise that we usually want to hide the detail of the underlying display, so things like `window-system` are just hacks that lets users see a small part of how the sausage is made, but that information is more about how Emacs' code is written than about what the Emacs processs interfaces with, as seen by the end user: from Emacs' point of view, the PGTK port really tries to make Emacs' redisplay code draw using GTK regardless of whether GTK itself uses X11, Wayland or any other backend GTK people may invent for it. Rather than argue whether it's more correct to describe the `window-system` as "X11", "PGTK", "Wayland" or whatnot, I recommend you think about concrete cases where this info matters and what exactly you'd like to know in those cases. AFAICT what started this whole discussion is a case where Emacs may not even be connected yet to any display and we want to know what "kind" of displays are supported by a given Emacs executable. === Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2026 08:39:46 -0700
From: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a
display server is not available
In-Reply-To: <86ecef5laz.fsf@HIDDEN>
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On 2026-09-26 22:13, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2026 18:33:26 -0700
>> From: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>
>> Cc: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii
>> <eliz@HIDDEN>,
>> Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, luangruo@HIDDEN,
>> rudalics@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>>
>> On 2026-09-26 06:12, Johan Myréen wrote:
>>
>> > On Sat, 26 Sept 2026 at 07:59, Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Attached is a patch that adds documentation of WAYLAND_DISPLAY and
>> >> BROADWAY_DISPLAY to the Emacs manual. This documents existing
>> >> behavior
>> >> independent of the new heuristic patch.
>> >
>> > Looks good to me.
>> >
>> > Maybe we could add a short paragraph on the syntax of WAYLAND_DISPLAY
>> > in C.5 Specifying the Display Name, perhaps after the third paragraph
>> > describing the syntax of DISPLAY.
>>
>> Good idea, I added sections for Wayland and Broadway. Updated diff
>> attached.
>
> Thanks. However, for better discoverability, I think it would be
> preferable to have these described in a single subsection common to
> all 3 variables.
>
>> @appendixsec Specifying the Display Name
>> @cindex display name (X Window System)
>> +@cindex display name (Wayland)
>> +@cindex display name (Broadway)
>
> It is not useful to have several index entries starting with the same
> text and pointing to the same place. So these 3 index entries should
> each one be at the place where the relevant display type is described,
> not in the same place.
>
>> +The X Window System, Wayland, and Broadway windowing systems use
>> +environment variables to tell clients where to display their windows.
>> +The values are set by default in ordinary circumstances, when you
>> start
>> +a display server and run jobs locally. Only Pgtk Emacs (built with
>> +@option{--with-pgtk}) can run on Wayland or Broadway natively.
>
> Many users have no idea how to check whether Emacs was built
> --with-pgtk,
> so we should add an explanation here how to do that, perhaps in a
> @footnote.
>
>> + You can specify the display yourself; one reason to do this is if
>> you
>> +want to log into another system and run Emacs there, and have the
>> window
>> +displayed at your local terminal. This is most common for the X
>> Window
>> +System. To specify the display name, either change the corresponding
>> +environment variable for your windowing system, or with the option
>> +@samp{-d @var{display}} or @samp{--display=@var{display}}. Here is
>> an
>> +example:
>
> We prefer @option to @samp when describing command-line options (and
> yes, I know we haven't converted all of the latter to use the former).
>
>> + Running Emacs remotely and displaying on a local display server is
>> +commonly done using the @command{waypipe} command.
>
> The 'waypipe' command should be indexed.
Updated patch attached.
-- MJF
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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Sep 2026 12:39:36 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 28 08:39:36 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40206 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1xBAds-0007wy-8s for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 08:39:36 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49818) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1xBAdp-0007wY-NK for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 08:39:35 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1xBAdj-0001Ya-BW; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 08:39:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=DI4tU6e9X8cf0m4/v2uHUGUKhPoA8mNiTvZ8/Os4F/8=; b=dqltXXRTy8IxaAqWbIOe fD377fmELiWOQoO+4sWF0mwOK+nH8gwet4ZC4JBXlkl5Ka3GK3IT39aJDO5l3Kt1smi7N02KLOLiq kn24vHV8EHwCztaR1aHXBQMhDXTlqr5CAHmsnBt+uwG/d7EZu02rhbQDYMLne8e1GLWsbVn9UVQHV MgfhM7l8UDBPI52/kTbIXD2SX/K7GIMjDkUj1e+rQLCVkhsurxhKibZQEbTkVTdAIwueL20E83bQ8 0DvM9KCr4rWw6LeAwYw5mtiBsXUUYWRClwvEYGCBF95QT4LWyVTxjQlPdFKCc71ewZxzU5R8yyril K7uokQOtsxylJA==; Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2026 15:39:22 +0300 Message-Id: <86a4p135z9.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hgG89vjaVUrnvXmO0AP3eYkHPFJgZY5=Nn7s82ObW6CBQ@HIDDEN> (message from Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= on Mon, 28 Sep 2026 14:57:08 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> <87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN> <293a3beaae1bf2c423059df254f59552@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN> <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> <c45233ae6515a5860415999dd256f60e@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hg6hsEi-5puWL-BqNGhrXyF2oxjEjTxLbKT6FUAZ-xFBw@HIDDEN> <8467ef43ccb5c702f977f2cd7b525460@HIDDEN> <86ecef5laz.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgMC7NudSOAQbLK7C6uKOqVkTYzvUX1gY0Sj_7R+ZwunQ@HIDDEN> <86jyo64nkm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgLGkHBnGAJStMHkmWtcBwty-x1eqeR=G_O4GG4GbW4ow@HIDDEN> <86cxty3q94.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhAgfU6BtvXWs-LeotPZx6rJCaM1fw4gpBzxgAqSjSEgA@HIDDEN> <86pkxx3fih.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgG89vjaVUrnvXmO0AP3eYkHPFJgZY5=Nn7s82ObW6CBQ@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: jared@HIDDEN, luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> > Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2026 14:57:08 +0300 > Cc: jared@HIDDEN, spwhitton@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, > luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > On Mon, 28 Sept 2026 at 12:13, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote: > > Ok, so we are stuck with the pgtk "window system" forever. > > No, the "official" name of the windowing system is given by > x-server-vendor and x-server-version. > > Not on the Pgtk build — it does not define these functions. It should, though. > Adding > them is not as easy as just defining them, since some decisions have > to be made on what they should return. The comment after the > x-server-version defun says: > > "For GNU and Unix system[sic], the first 2 numbers are the version of the X > Protocol used on TERMINAL and the 3rd number is the distributor-specific > release number." > > This guidance is not applicable if there is no X server. Likewise for > x-server-vendor. This is just the doc string, and is not carved in stone: we can amend the doc string such that it makes sense on PGTK. Note that it already says nothing about the significance of the value on non-GNU, non-UNIX systems. > It depends on how significant are the differences. There are > trade-offs here: if the differences are minor, then the need to > include yet another symbol in the conditions Lisp programs need to > test will be an unnecessary nuisance, so it might be better to use the > same symbol with a small number of PGTK-specific tests where that > matters. If the differences are substantial, a new symbol does a > better job. > > By this logic the PGTK version (when run on X) and GTKX should > use the same symbol, since they are closer relative to each other > than to the Lucid and No Toolkit versions, which all return "x". I'm not sure you are right. AFAIK, the similarity is in the toolkit part, not in the low-level functionalities. If I look at the uses of 'pgtk' in frame.el, for example, I see that we call different primitives in the PGTK build than on X. > I hope you now understand the issue better. > > I have learned that these symbols have been added in an ad-hoc > fashion, and that they are more relevant to the OS platform or the > GUI toolkit used than the actual window system in use, but, for > backwards compatibility, we are stuck with them. I think you are mistaken. Once again, I invite you to study the uses of these in the implementation.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b0fd6e065c89c408" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: jared@HIDDEN, luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --000000000000b0fd6e065c89c408 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 28 Sept 2026 at 12:13, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote: > If the GUI backend for that hypothetical version behaved sufficiently > differently from any existing one, we'd invent some new symbol for it. > If not, we'd reuse the one that is the closest, and differentiate > between them "by other means". > Ok, so we are stuck with the pgtk "window system" forever. No, the "official" name of the windowing system is given by > x-server-vendor and x-server-version. > Not on the Pgtk build =E2=80=94 it does not define these functions. Adding them is not as easy as just defining them, since some decisions have to be made on what they should return. The comment after the x-server-version defun says: "For GNU and Unix system[sic], the first 2 numbers are the version of the X Protocol used on TERMINAL and the 3rd number is the distributor-specific release number." This guidance is not applicable if there is no X server. Likewise for x-server-vendor. It depends on how significant are the differences. There are > trade-offs here: if the differences are minor, then the need to > include yet another symbol in the conditions Lisp programs need to > test will be an unnecessary nuisance, so it might be better to use the > same symbol with a small number of PGTK-specific tests where that > matters. If the differences are substantial, a new symbol does a > better job. > By this logic the PGTK version (when run on X) and GTKX should use the same symbol, since they are closer relative to each other than to the Lucid and No Toolkit versions, which all return "x". I hope you now understand the issue better. I have learned that these symbols have been added in an ad-hoc fashion, and that they are more relevant to the OS platform or the GUI toolkit used than the actual window system in use, but, for backwards compatibility, we are stuck with them. --000000000000b0fd6e065c89c408 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir= =3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, 28 Sept 2026 at 12:13, Eli Zaretskii = <<a href=3D"mailto:eliz@HIDDEN">eliz@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br></div><b= lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le= ft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">If the GUI backend for that= hypothetical version behaved sufficiently<br> differently from any existing one, we'd invent some new symbol for it.<= br> If not, we'd reuse the one that is the closest, and differentiate<br> between them "by other means".<br></blockquote><div><br></div><di= v>Ok, so we are stuck with the pgtk "window system" forever.</div= ><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0= px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">No, the &= quot;official" name of the windowing system is given by<br> x-server-vendor and x-server-version.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>N= ot on the Pgtk build=C2=A0=E2=80=94 it does not define these functions. Add= ing</div><div>them is not as easy as just defining them, since some decisio= ns have</div><div>to be made on what they should return. The comment after = the</div><div>x-server-version defun=C2=A0says:</div><div></div><div><br></= div><div>"For GNU and Unix system[sic], the first 2 numbers are the ve= rsion of the X<br>Protocol used on TERMINAL and the 3rd number is the distr= ibutor-specific<br>release number."</div><div><br></div><div>This guid= ance is not applicable if there is no=C2=A0X server. Likewise for</div><div= >x-server-vendor.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty= le=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddi= ng-left:1ex">It depends on how significant are the differences.=C2=A0 There= are<br> trade-offs here: if the differences are minor, then the need to<br> include yet another symbol in the conditions Lisp programs need to<br> test will be an unnecessary nuisance, so it might be better to use the<br> same symbol with a small number of PGTK-specific tests where that<br> matters.=C2=A0 If the differences are substantial, a new symbol does a<br> better job.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div>By this logic the PGTK= version (when run on X) and=C2=A0GTKX should</div><div>use the same symbol= , since they=C2=A0are closer relative to each other</div><div><div>than to = the Lucid and No Toolkit=C2=A0versions,=C2=A0which all return "x"= .</div></div></div><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p= x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> I hope you now understand the issue better.</blockquote><div><br></div><div= >I have learned that these symbols have been added in an ad-hoc</div><div>f= ashion, and that they are more relevant to the OS platform or the</div><div= >GUI toolkit used than the actual window system in use, but, for</div><div>= backwards compatibility,=C2=A0we are stuck with them.</div><div><br></div><= /div></div> --000000000000b0fd6e065c89c408--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Sep 2026 09:13:41 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 28 05:13:41 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52755 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1xB7Qa-0002Jz-CK for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 05:13:40 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34378) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1xB7QX-0002JK-Mn for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 05:13:38 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1xB7QR-0004Tn-1T; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 05:13:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=KjRAagOt8NGBHqzlqZpWlWjAdZKueFbVErP9WeEsQTI=; b=dGBEPRd1bpnQWzFP9zy4 1Ku84Kdcc429xK8IAc1MVM03Oglw60BuD1HlaAGqfX3KYNX6dT7GKHu8b/0BUpPNXvMTHAVZD19jZ c9dn9TzVSFnPEhQ30FdCaylWXVtecuUfAD47qMtZT0pmyR8nNFsQmKJ8XHKLolfmrfxU3hBpuhjpc 309x8LvqgVtfSGe0mFHSLguELrl3zXnUTkPKJOT4XjAmxhtpqCI//TaGb6bY7It2ZEGrv1+GC4UPy Hgq3rIU22C9/RrVs6LFSRBS2Ww6MtpyL1cte5tuWDhH/yaxrlXvOgOIyNMYtWF22pli/vUN9hiJC9 jFHY2PrBWwImfQ==; Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2026 12:13:26 +0300 Message-Id: <86pkxx3fih.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hhAgfU6BtvXWs-LeotPZx6rJCaM1fw4gpBzxgAqSjSEgA@HIDDEN> (message from Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= on Mon, 28 Sep 2026 11:25:21 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> <87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN> <293a3beaae1bf2c423059df254f59552@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN> <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> <c45233ae6515a5860415999dd256f60e@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hg6hsEi-5puWL-BqNGhrXyF2oxjEjTxLbKT6FUAZ-xFBw@HIDDEN> <8467ef43ccb5c702f977f2cd7b525460@HIDDEN> <86ecef5laz.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgMC7NudSOAQbLK7C6uKOqVkTYzvUX1gY0Sj_7R+ZwunQ@HIDDEN> <86jyo64nkm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgLGkHBnGAJStMHkmWtcBwty-x1eqeR=G_O4GG4GbW4ow@HIDDEN> <86cxty3q94.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhAgfU6BtvXWs-LeotPZx6rJCaM1fw4gpBzxgAqSjSEgA@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: jared@HIDDEN, luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> > Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2026 11:25:21 +0300 > Cc: jared@HIDDEN, spwhitton@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, > luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > On Mon, 28 Sept 2026 at 08:21, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote: > > Btw, I don't understand why you consider 'pgtk' nonsensical. How does > it make less sense than 'w32' or 'haiku' or 'pc'? These names are > supposed to be functional and useful, nothing more, nothing less. And > I think they are, but feel free to explain why you dislike 'pgtk' (or > the rest of them). > > Pgtk is not the name of a windowing system / display server, don't you agree? Pgtk is > short for Portable GTK. Wayland is not something internal to GTK, but a display server > and window manager(*), comparable to X11, but written from scratch and using a > different API, a different protocol, and a somewhat different philosophy. > > If someone would write a slimmer Wayland version of Emacs, similar to the > --with-x-toolkit=no build, what would (window-system) return on that port? I think > "pgtk" would be totally out of place. If the GUI backend for that hypothetical version behaved sufficiently differently from any existing one, we'd invent some new symbol for it. If not, we'd reuse the one that is the closest, and differentiate between them "by other means". > Pgtk makes less sense than w32, ns, pc, haiku, and android because those systems > only have one integrated display server that does not have a separate name, or at least > not a well-known separate name. There's no system known as "w32", that's an Emacs invention. And "pc" is a mild joke at best, since most computers nowadays are some kind of PC. Likewise with "ns". > X11 has been recognised as a separate display server by the Emacs developers, judging > by that (window-system) returns "x" on X11. Given the explanation above, I think > Wayland also deserves equal recognition. I think you interpret these symbols in a way that we didn't intend: they are not indications of some "recognition". They are there for purely practical reasons: to allow Lisp code easily adapt itself to the different behaviors and capabilities. Nothing more, nothing less. They are somewhat related to the respective systems only to provide useful mnemonics for Lisp programmers. > There are also practical considerations: given the name of the window-system function, > one would expect it to return the name of the windowing system, differentiating between > X11 and Wayland. No, the "official" name of the windowing system is given by x-server-vendor and x-server-version. > What else would it be for? I tried to explain that above. You are invited to look up the uses of these symbols in our sources to understand this better. > This is also not just hypothetical: since there > are some differences in the behaviour between Wayland and X11, an Elisp programmer > could benefit from the function not returning "pgtk" in both cases. It depends on how significant are the differences. There are trade-offs here: if the differences are minor, then the need to include yet another symbol in the conditions Lisp programs need to test will be an unnecessary nuisance, so it might be better to use the same symbol with a small number of PGTK-specific tests where that matters. If the differences are substantial, a new symbol does a better job. Like I said: this is a purely practical decision, it has no other importance and meaning. I hope you now understand the issue better.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Sep 2026 08:51:01 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 28 04:51:00 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49230 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1xB74X-0008Sl-En for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 04:50:59 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53846) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1xB744-0008Ou-1d for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 04:50:36 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1xB73w-0002Ne-Dm; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 04:50:16 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=KJrCiVash8yF6MUS7H0xWXfdGzQ204jl/nW4bptGV7s=; b=hFEdcSAOabV3EaIfRl4u EAVUROVwN4LQ7zZJAtyeM8RF+WR7Em4Ao0pfmIkIe1oK773g1opsqQsZ5Za0+w7fIjYp2eK0dPlsq kMoRY2DINmGTK7L+sUcJ/aurZSp73+NAzais0pLzAvK+V85nAxp2W/VxIgae65SjcMKtY9xsoR0o8 SGDVXka5o53i2dmha1W1XIjBRB2y7fx+EhTzqKdcgJzYhZpsAGeKF7TGG44yA1ZXRSxQG5LKNgvBG awmoJiqjsRv7VcxRKsA+JHJVMpSlj7hfhVgaE2l3wJht9NMRgP8hgM3UGoNg0yB27Z/S2SbHnXC1P TRhZ+jI6zUdC+g==; Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2026 11:50:12 +0300 Message-Id: <86se2t3gl7.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <62afda263745519092b974b2daf12d8f@HIDDEN> (message from Jared Finder on Sun, 27 Sep 2026 22:31:00 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> <87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN> <293a3beaae1bf2c423059df254f59552@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN> <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> <c45233ae6515a5860415999dd256f60e@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hg6hsEi-5puWL-BqNGhrXyF2oxjEjTxLbKT6FUAZ-xFBw@HIDDEN> <8467ef43ccb5c702f977f2cd7b525460@HIDDEN> <86ecef5laz.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgMC7NudSOAQbLK7C6uKOqVkTYzvUX1gY0Sj_7R+ZwunQ@HIDDEN> <86jyo64nkm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgLGkHBnGAJStMHkmWtcBwty-x1eqeR=G_O4GG4GbW4ow@HIDDEN> <86cxty3q94.fsf@HIDDEN> <62afda263745519092b974b2daf12d8f@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, johan.myreen@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2026 22:31:00 -0700 > From: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> > Cc: Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN>, > spwhitton@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, luangruo@HIDDEN, > rudalics@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > On 2026-09-27 22:21, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> From: Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> > >> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2026 21:38:44 +0300 > >> Cc: jared@HIDDEN, spwhitton@HIDDEN, > >> monnier@HIDDEN, > >> luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > >> > >> On Sun, 27 Sept 2026 at 20:21, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote: > >> > >> We have a long-term plan to allow frames on different window-system > >> terminals. And even today, you can have a session in which some > >> frames are GUI frames and some are TTY frames (where window-system is > >> nil). > >> > >> The window-system variable is "terminal-local", which I presume has a > >> different value depending on in which frame it is evaluated. > > > > Actually, window-system the variable is deprecated; you should use the > > function of the same name instead. > > > >> Let's say the > >> Pgtk build is able to create both Wayland and X frames in the future. > >> Do > >> we then get rid of the silliness that the Pgtk build reports the same > >> nonsensical value "pgtk" for any type of frame? > > > > AFAIU, it will then report 'pgtk' for frames on Wayland and 'x' for X > > frames. Or maybe something else; we will blow that bridge when we > > come to it. > > > > Btw, I don't understand why you consider 'pgtk' nonsensical. How does > > it make less sense than 'w32' or 'haiku' or 'pc'? These names are > > supposed to be functional and useful, nothing more, nothing less. And > > I think they are, but feel free to explain why you dislike 'pgtk' (or > > the rest of them). > > This all seems unrelated to what I thought was the question at hand: how > a user can check if an Emacs build is a PGTK build or not so they can > know if window systems like Wayland are supported. Whether a particular > frame is a PGTK frame is an unrelated question. (Except, of course that > PGTK frames can only exist on a PGTK Emacs build, but importantly not > all frames created on a PGTK Emacs build are PGTK frames.) > > Or am I missing something? Yes, this is a tangent.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004825b9065c86cf25" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: jared@HIDDEN, luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --0000000000004825b9065c86cf25 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, 28 Sept 2026 at 08:21, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote: > Btw, I don't understand why you consider 'pgtk' nonsensical. How does > it make less sense than 'w32' or 'haiku' or 'pc'? These names are > supposed to be functional and useful, nothing more, nothing less. And > I think they are, but feel free to explain why you dislike 'pgtk' (or > the rest of them). > Pgtk is not the name of a windowing system / display server, don't you agree? Pgtk is short for Portable GTK. Wayland is not something internal to GTK, but a display server and window manager(*), comparable to X11, but written from scratch and using a different API, a different protocol, and a somewhat different philosophy. If someone would write a slimmer Wayland version of Emacs, similar to the --with-x-toolkit=no build, what would (window-system) return on that port? I think "pgtk" would be totally out of place. Pgtk makes less sense than w32, ns, pc, haiku, and android because those systems only have one integrated display server that does not have a separate name, or at least not a well-known separate name. On Windows, we could use Desktop Window Manager, but who has ever heard of that? Wayland, on the other hand, is a well-known display server separate from the OS platform, just like X11. (By the way, Wayland is not just a Linux thing, it is also used on BSD and the Windows Subsystem for Linux, WSL2.) X11 has been recognised as a separate display server by the Emacs developers, judging by that (window-system) returns "x" on X11. Given the explanation above, I think Wayland also deserves equal recognition. There are also practical considerations: given the name of the window-system function, one would expect it to return the name of the windowing system, differentiating between X11 and Wayland. What else would it be for? This is also not just hypothetical: since there are some differences in the behaviour between Wayland and X11, an Elisp programmer could benefit from the function not returning "pgtk" in both cases. To sum up, I think the symbol pgtk is nonsensical for two reasons: the name, and the fact that the same symbol is returned by (window-system) for two different underlying windowing systems. (*) To be precise: Wayland is actually only a set of protocols, just like X11 is. --0000000000004825b9065c86cf25 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir= =3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, 28 Sept 2026 at 08:21, Eli Zaretskii = <<a href=3D"mailto:eliz@HIDDEN">eliz@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br></div><b= lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le= ft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Btw, I don't understand= why you consider 'pgtk' nonsensical.=C2=A0 How does<br> it make less sense than 'w32' or 'haiku' or 'pc'?= =C2=A0 These names are<br> supposed to be functional and useful, nothing more, nothing less.=C2=A0 And= <br> I think they are, but feel free to explain why you dislike 'pgtk' (= or<br> the rest of them).<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Pgtk is not the name= of a windowing system / display server, don't you agree? Pgtk is</div>= <div>short for Portable GTK.=C2=A0Wayland is not something internal to GTK,= but a display server</div><div>and window manager(*),=C2=A0comparable to X= 11, but written from scratch and using a</div><div>different API, a differe= nt=C2=A0protocol, and a somewhat different philosophy.</div><div><br></div>= <div>If someone would write a slimmer Wayland version of Emacs, similar to= =C2=A0the</div><div>--with-x-toolkit=3Dno build, what would (window-system)= return on that port? I think</div><div>"pgtk" would be totally o= ut of place.</div><div><br></div><div>Pgtk makes less sense than w32, ns, p= c, haiku, and android because those systems</div><div>only have one integra= ted display server that does not have a separate=C2=A0name, or at least</di= v><div>not a well-known separate=C2=A0name. On Windows, we could use Deskto= p Window Manager,</div><div>but who has ever heard of=C2=A0that? Wayland, o= n the other hand, is a well-known display server</div><div>separate from th= e=C2=A0OS platform, just like X11. (By the way, Wayland is not just a Linux= </div><div>thing, it is also=C2=A0used on BSD=C2=A0and the Windows Subsyste= m for Linux, WSL2.)=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>X11 has been recognised = as a separate display server by the Emacs developers, judging</div><div>by = that (window-system) returns "x" on X11. Given the explanation ab= ove, I think=C2=A0</div><div>Wayland also deserves equal recognition.</div>= <div><br></div><div>There are also practical considerations: given the name= of the window-system function,</div><div>one=C2=A0would expect it to retur= n the name of the windowing system,=C2=A0differentiating between</div><div>= X11 and Wayland. What else would it be for? This is also not just=C2=A0hypo= thetical: since there</div><div>are some differences in the behaviour betwe= en Wayland and=C2=A0X11, an Elisp programmer</div><div>could benefit from t= he function not returning "pgtk" in both cases.</div><div><br></d= iv><div>To sum up, I think the symbol pgtk is nonsensical for two reasons: = the name, and the</div><div>fact that=C2=A0the same symbol is returned by (= window-system) for two different underlying</div><div>windowing=C2=A0system= s.</div><div><br></div><div>(*) To be precise: Wayland is actually only a s= et of protocols, just like X11 is.</div><div><br></div></div></div> --0000000000004825b9065c86cf25--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2026 08:39:23 +0300
Message-Id: <86a4p23pf8.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <a7aa3ca6fc4b40e0be0fedbec6f64870@HIDDEN> (message from Jared
Finder on Sun, 27 Sep 2026 13:29:00 -0700)
Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a
display server is not available
References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN>
<86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN>
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> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2026 13:29:00 -0700
> From: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN>,
> spwhitton@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, luangruo@HIDDEN,
> rudalics@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
> On 2026-09-27 10:21, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> >> From: Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN>
> >> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2026 18:48:59 +0300
> >> Cc: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>, spwhitton@HIDDEN,
> >> monnier@HIDDEN,
> >> luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> >>
> >> On Sun, 27 Sept 2026 at 08:13, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:
> >>
> >> > +a display server and run jobs locally. Only Pgtk Emacs (built
> >> with
> >> > +@option{--with-pgtk}) can run on Wayland or Broadway natively.
> >>
> >> Many users have no idea how to check whether Emacs was built
> >> --with-pgtk,
> >> so we should add an explanation here how to do that, perhaps in a
> >> @footnote.
> >>
> >> Running
> >> emacs --batch --eval "(message system-configuration-options)"
> >> on the command line produces an output that contains --with-pgtk if
> >> run on a Pgtk build.
> >>
> >> The window-system variable has the symbol value pgtk if running a Pgtk
> >> build of Emacs. The command M-x describe-variable window-system
> >> shows the value.
> >
> > There are these ways, and a few others. My point was that we should
> > have some of them in that place in the manual, because most users
> > nowadays don't build their own Emacs.
>
> Perhaps Emacs should report if it was built using PGTK in M-x
> emacs-version output? That would make it easier than hunting through
> the values of system-configuration-options, features, etc.
Users rarely if ever need this stuff, so the relevant functions and
variables exist mainly for Emacs developers and maintainers. This
case is a rare exception, and is described in an appendix for a good
reason, so let's not blow this out of proportion. I suggested to have
the description in a @footnote for the same reason.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Sep 2026 05:31:04 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 28 01:31:04 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41038 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1xB3xA-0004Gw-0n for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 01:31:04 -0400 Received: from greenhill.hpalace.com ([192.155.80.58]:41048) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jared@HIDDEN>) id 1xB3x7-0004GH-Kf for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 01:31:02 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=finder.org; s=2018; t=1790573460; bh=zbAxDZPmzIFGg9AnzmCK6Qi5FQS3nXu/5Bo8itL91w4=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=msWNkONzwb27YOsavP6TqkWVSBbxDUuo42Ltzw0Tnmq7oVk5IX86EFkc11PfLKCHA 4qrZPvu4GhIT6IKUPchp0a0Lhtmqsp6s7J6Rm3+cpH5CezgP5wjR6AKgCLVHDpC0dP zKwRXGu/2apPflM0mbsgd+h9iiLMeoUYppZ8PXZ4bQoYyIGEiv9vE5WgbT7CpZRtQ7 dP1gl3T5X1l2TE7INPiKhUZtc0zyEYrhQ1tdBqU3sIfvqyoDFRxM7MJKjb+nx8z4he zz1kQN3dZRnEcrX9hz/nE+61SI5WM54zedTyMLE51SsJEjwZj8A/anWPrSbC6cG+Xb IkqhYKfPf4vqA== Received: from mail.finder.org (unknown [192.155.80.58]) by greenhill.hpalace.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 89F2A5BD; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 05:31:00 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2026 22:31:00 -0700 From: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available In-Reply-To: <86cxty3q94.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> <87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN> <293a3beaae1bf2c423059df254f59552@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN> <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> <c45233ae6515a5860415999dd256f60e@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hg6hsEi-5puWL-BqNGhrXyF2oxjEjTxLbKT6FUAZ-xFBw@HIDDEN> <8467ef43ccb5c702f977f2cd7b525460@HIDDEN> <86ecef5laz.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgMC7NudSOAQbLK7C6uKOqVkTYzvUX1gY0Sj_7R+ZwunQ@HIDDEN> <86jyo64nkm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgLGkHBnGAJStMHkmWtcBwty-x1eqeR=G_O4GG4GbW4ow@HIDDEN> <86cxty3q94.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <62afda263745519092b974b2daf12d8f@HIDDEN> X-Sender: jared@HIDDEN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, =?UTF-8?Q?Johan_Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2026-09-27 22:21, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> >> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2026 21:38:44 +0300 >> Cc: jared@HIDDEN, spwhitton@HIDDEN, >> monnier@HIDDEN, >> luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> >> On Sun, 27 Sept 2026 at 20:21, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote: >> >> We have a long-term plan to allow frames on different window-system >> terminals. And even today, you can have a session in which some >> frames are GUI frames and some are TTY frames (where window-system is >> nil). >> >> The window-system variable is "terminal-local", which I presume has a >> different value depending on in which frame it is evaluated. > > Actually, window-system the variable is deprecated; you should use the > function of the same name instead. > >> Let's say the >> Pgtk build is able to create both Wayland and X frames in the future. >> Do >> we then get rid of the silliness that the Pgtk build reports the same >> nonsensical value "pgtk" for any type of frame? > > AFAIU, it will then report 'pgtk' for frames on Wayland and 'x' for X > frames. Or maybe something else; we will blow that bridge when we > come to it. > > Btw, I don't understand why you consider 'pgtk' nonsensical. How does > it make less sense than 'w32' or 'haiku' or 'pc'? These names are > supposed to be functional and useful, nothing more, nothing less. And > I think they are, but feel free to explain why you dislike 'pgtk' (or > the rest of them). This all seems unrelated to what I thought was the question at hand: how a user can check if an Emacs build is a PGTK build or not so they can know if window systems like Wayland are supported. Whether a particular frame is a PGTK frame is an unrelated question. (Except, of course that PGTK frames can only exist on a PGTK Emacs build, but importantly not all frames created on a PGTK Emacs build are PGTK frames.) Or am I missing something? -- MJF
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Sep 2026 05:21:40 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 28 01:21:40 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39376 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1xB3o4-00038o-2s for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 01:21:40 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56774) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1xB3o1-00038M-AU for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 01:21:38 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1xB3nu-0007nD-Nw; Mon, 28 Sep 2026 01:21:30 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=7ZkPAqPKt8WHCl6atNZnozK6KnhJecIECc0IQsU/Ltg=; b=P9BAW4MRJvPaIvrtziZn TYJ8PUikW3GemO1sL8RqhMd6RRc+pE5fanVZsPiDe1bZiflR7GtTzbCXbtYowOAd2A3F2zDnObHxa 9RcTTdtyv6k8PPUow19oNiCxvOj5tEY0JkJ9xPuOrfa3Bc28CxJ2qqjbwe1vJd4dhrJz4WDLRL3La 5kPCBwmAAawd8yywe+59A2l7oGFA2xvOSVtF6xN1QA1e3nEafCt56OR83B4TozQyUQdo1tjHW9BaZ zxnOHLnTLGlQzzSJ4LidswubW5UfwA1oAfGw+FpBOliGuGK0g8fyRirRXQekHaYVX7lvtEotp8fR0 tf0pHvTq2zm7sg==; Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2026 08:21:27 +0300 Message-Id: <86cxty3q94.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hgLGkHBnGAJStMHkmWtcBwty-x1eqeR=G_O4GG4GbW4ow@HIDDEN> (message from Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= on Sun, 27 Sep 2026 21:38:44 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> <87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN> <293a3beaae1bf2c423059df254f59552@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN> <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> <c45233ae6515a5860415999dd256f60e@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hg6hsEi-5puWL-BqNGhrXyF2oxjEjTxLbKT6FUAZ-xFBw@HIDDEN> <8467ef43ccb5c702f977f2cd7b525460@HIDDEN> <86ecef5laz.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgMC7NudSOAQbLK7C6uKOqVkTYzvUX1gY0Sj_7R+ZwunQ@HIDDEN> <86jyo64nkm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgLGkHBnGAJStMHkmWtcBwty-x1eqeR=G_O4GG4GbW4ow@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: jared@HIDDEN, luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> > Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2026 21:38:44 +0300 > Cc: jared@HIDDEN, spwhitton@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, > luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > On Sun, 27 Sept 2026 at 20:21, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote: > > We have a long-term plan to allow frames on different window-system > terminals. And even today, you can have a session in which some > frames are GUI frames and some are TTY frames (where window-system is > nil). > > The window-system variable is "terminal-local", which I presume has a > different value depending on in which frame it is evaluated. Actually, window-system the variable is deprecated; you should use the function of the same name instead. > Let's say the > Pgtk build is able to create both Wayland and X frames in the future. Do > we then get rid of the silliness that the Pgtk build reports the same > nonsensical value "pgtk" for any type of frame? AFAIU, it will then report 'pgtk' for frames on Wayland and 'x' for X frames. Or maybe something else; we will blow that bridge when we come to it. Btw, I don't understand why you consider 'pgtk' nonsensical. How does it make less sense than 'w32' or 'haiku' or 'pc'? These names are supposed to be functional and useful, nothing more, nothing less. And I think they are, but feel free to explain why you dislike 'pgtk' (or the rest of them).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2026 13:29:00 -0700
From: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a
display server is not available
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References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN>
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On 2026-09-27 10:21, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> From: Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN>
>> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2026 18:48:59 +0300
>> Cc: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>, spwhitton@HIDDEN,
>> monnier@HIDDEN,
>> luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>>
>> On Sun, 27 Sept 2026 at 08:13, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:
>>
>> > +a display server and run jobs locally. Only Pgtk Emacs (built
>> with
>> > +@option{--with-pgtk}) can run on Wayland or Broadway natively.
>>
>> Many users have no idea how to check whether Emacs was built
>> --with-pgtk,
>> so we should add an explanation here how to do that, perhaps in a
>> @footnote.
>>
>> Running
>> emacs --batch --eval "(message system-configuration-options)"
>> on the command line produces an output that contains --with-pgtk if
>> run on a Pgtk build.
>>
>> The window-system variable has the symbol value pgtk if running a Pgtk
>> build of Emacs. The command M-x describe-variable window-system
>> shows the value.
>
> There are these ways, and a few others. My point was that we should
> have some of them in that place in the manual, because most users
> nowadays don't build their own Emacs.
Perhaps Emacs should report if it was built using PGTK in M-x
emacs-version output? That would make it easier than hunting through
the values of system-configuration-options, features, etc. Emacs does
already state what version of GTK+ is used.
-- MJF
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002858a7065c7b4381" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: jared@HIDDEN, luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --0000000000002858a7065c7b4381 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sun, 27 Sept 2026 at 20:21, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote: > > We have a long-term plan to allow frames on different window-system > terminals. And even today, you can have a session in which some > frames are GUI frames and some are TTY frames (where window-system is > nil). > The window-system variable is "terminal-local", which I presume has a different value depending on in which frame it is evaluated. Let's say the Pgtk build is able to create both Wayland and X frames in the future. Do we then get rid of the silliness that the Pgtk build reports the same nonsensical value "pgtk" for any type of frame? --0000000000002858a7065c7b4381 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir= =3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, 27 Sept 2026 at 20:21, Eli Zaretskii = <<a href=3D"mailto:eliz@HIDDEN">eliz@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br></div><b= lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le= ft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br> We have a long-term plan to allow frames on different window-system<br> terminals.=C2=A0 And even today, you can have a session in which some<br> frames are GUI frames and some are TTY frames (where window-system is<br> nil).<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The window-system variable is &qu= ot;terminal-local", which I presume has a</div><div>different value de= pending on in which frame it is evaluated. Let's say the</div><div>Pgtk= build is able to create both Wayland and X frames in the future. Do</div><= div>we then get rid of the silliness that the Pgtk build reports the same</= div><div>nonsensical value "pgtk" for any type of frame?</div><di= v><br></div></div></div> --0000000000002858a7065c7b4381--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2026 20:21:45 +0300
Message-Id: <86jyo64nkm.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hgMC7NudSOAQbLK7C6uKOqVkTYzvUX1gY0Sj_7R+ZwunQ@HIDDEN>
(message from Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= on Sun, 27 Sep 2026 18:48:59
+0300)
Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a
display server is not available
References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN>
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> From: Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2026 18:48:59 +0300
> Cc: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>, spwhitton@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN,
> luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
> On Sun, 27 Sept 2026 at 08:13, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:
>
> > +a display server and run jobs locally. Only Pgtk Emacs (built with
> > +@option{--with-pgtk}) can run on Wayland or Broadway natively.
>
> Many users have no idea how to check whether Emacs was built --with-pgtk,
> so we should add an explanation here how to do that, perhaps in a
> @footnote.
>
> Running
> emacs --batch --eval "(message system-configuration-options)"
> on the command line produces an output that contains --with-pgtk if
> run on a Pgtk build.
>
> The window-system variable has the symbol value pgtk if running a Pgtk
> build of Emacs. The command M-x describe-variable window-system
> shows the value.
There are these ways, and a few others. My point was that we should
have some of them in that place in the manual, because most users
nowadays don't build their own Emacs.
> Note that the window-system variable is documented to contain the
> "Name of window system through which the selected frame is displayed."
> This is not true: the value is always pgtk, regardless of if Emacs is started
> on X or on Wayland. In the former case I would expect the value to be "x",
> and in the latter case preferably "wayland", not "pgtk" which is just the
> build type of Emacs, named after the toolkit the build is based on.
We have a long-term plan to allow frames on different window-system
terminals. And even today, you can have a session in which some
frames are GUI frames and some are TTY frames (where window-system is
nil).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2026 18:48:59 +0300
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Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a
display server is not available
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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--00000000000001c8e6065c78e490
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On Sun, 27 Sept 2026 at 08:13, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:
> > +a display server and run jobs locally. Only Pgtk Emacs (built with
> > +@option{--with-pgtk}) can run on Wayland or Broadway natively.
>
> Many users have no idea how to check whether Emacs was built --with-pgtk,
> so we should add an explanation here how to do that, perhaps in a
> @footnote.
Running
emacs --batch --eval "(message system-configuration-options)"
on the command line produces an output that contains --with-pgtk if
run on a Pgtk build.
The window-system variable has the symbol value pgtk if running a Pgtk
build of Emacs. The command M-x describe-variable window-system
shows the value.
Note that the window-system variable is documented to contain the
"Name of window system through which the selected frame is displayed."
This is not true: the value is always pgtk, regardless of if Emacs is
started
on X or on Wayland. In the former case I would expect the value to be "x",
and in the latter case preferably "wayland", not "pgtk" which is just the
build type of Emacs, named after the toolkit the build is based on.
--00000000000001c8e6065c78e490
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"lt=
r" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, 27 Sept 2026 at 08:13, Eli Zaretskii <<a=
href=3D"mailto:eliz@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">eliz@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:=
<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">> +a display=
server and run jobs locally.=C2=A0 Only Pgtk Emacs (built with<br>
> +@option{--with-pgtk}) can run on Wayland or Broadway natively.<br>
<br>
Many users have no idea how to check whether Emacs was built --with-pgtk, <=
br>
so we should add an explanation here how to do that, perhaps in a<br>
@footnote.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Running<br>emacs --batch --eval =
"(message system-configuration-options)"</div><div>on the=C2=A0co=
mmand line produces an output that contains --with-pgtk if</div><div>run on=
a Pgtk build.</div><div><br></div><div></div><div>The window-system variab=
le has the symbol value pgtk if running a Pgtk</div><div>build of Emacs. Th=
e command M-x describe-variable window-system</div><div>shows the value.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>Note that the window-system variable is documented t=
o=C2=A0contain the</div><div>"Name of window system=C2=A0through which=
the selected frame is displayed."</div><div>This is not true: the val=
ue is=C2=A0always pgtk, regardless of if Emacs is started</div><div>on X or=
on Wayland. In the former case I would expect the value to be "x"=
;,</div><div>and in the latter case preferably "wayland", not &qu=
ot;pgtk" which is just the</div><div>build type of Emacs, named after =
the toolkit the build is based on.</div><div><br></div></div></div>
</div>
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Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2026 08:13:08 +0300
Message-Id: <86ecef5laz.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <8467ef43ccb5c702f977f2cd7b525460@HIDDEN> (message from Jared
Finder on Sat, 26 Sep 2026 18:33:26 -0700)
Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a
display server is not available
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> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2026 18:33:26 -0700
> From: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>,
> Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, luangruo@HIDDEN,
> rudalics@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
> On 2026-09-26 06:12, Johan Myréen wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 26 Sept 2026 at 07:59, Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> wrote:
> >
> >> Attached is a patch that adds documentation of WAYLAND_DISPLAY and
> >> BROADWAY_DISPLAY to the Emacs manual. This documents existing
> >> behavior
> >> independent of the new heuristic patch.
> >
> > Looks good to me.
> >
> > Maybe we could add a short paragraph on the syntax of WAYLAND_DISPLAY
> > in C.5 Specifying the Display Name, perhaps after the third paragraph
> > describing the syntax of DISPLAY.
>
> Good idea, I added sections for Wayland and Broadway. Updated diff
> attached.
Thanks. However, for better discoverability, I think it would be
preferable to have these described in a single subsection common to
all 3 variables.
> @appendixsec Specifying the Display Name
> @cindex display name (X Window System)
> +@cindex display name (Wayland)
> +@cindex display name (Broadway)
It is not useful to have several index entries starting with the same
text and pointing to the same place. So these 3 index entries should
each one be at the place where the relevant display type is described,
not in the same place.
> +The X Window System, Wayland, and Broadway windowing systems use
> +environment variables to tell clients where to display their windows.
> +The values are set by default in ordinary circumstances, when you start
> +a display server and run jobs locally. Only Pgtk Emacs (built with
> +@option{--with-pgtk}) can run on Wayland or Broadway natively.
Many users have no idea how to check whether Emacs was built --with-pgtk,
so we should add an explanation here how to do that, perhaps in a
@footnote.
> + You can specify the display yourself; one reason to do this is if you
> +want to log into another system and run Emacs there, and have the window
> +displayed at your local terminal. This is most common for the X Window
> +System. To specify the display name, either change the corresponding
> +environment variable for your windowing system, or with the option
> +@samp{-d @var{display}} or @samp{--display=@var{display}}. Here is an
> +example:
We prefer @option to @samp when describing command-line options (and
yes, I know we haven't converted all of the latter to use the former).
> + Running Emacs remotely and displaying on a local display server is
> +commonly done using the @command{waypipe} command.
The 'waypipe' command should be indexed.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Sep 2026 01:33:30 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 26 21:33:30 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42966 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1xAdlh-0001tx-PW for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2026 21:33:30 -0400 Received: from greenhill.hpalace.com ([192.155.80.58]:35192) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jared@HIDDEN>) id 1xAdlf-0001tp-T1 for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2026 21:33:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=finder.org; s=2018; t=1790472806; bh=PmC2/0eHgqlxEJZjcAZ/jiQ09ZiaqNZvRxPOD93yUUg=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=yG8kgXVTHlKyYJsb6uKLpZCnOiBsB5T62KiX6/d4vfHNDroryPkKWJLmT/SJeu5L9 lIGUdfGO9BwRIcaXdDHMuAtBt6f9aqaNzo2Mou/tBan2bOkM0U6jVprw/Ss47tU06r 9Sc0qpB280vTBLUSdRSv1EXkBfBJJdy+e2h0Zhm4031sIZg5gjZ1Xt2a9f4IH+xJhe haK2F7qk4B7k3/KyHxcofCDTKuFyzTIushMh0xOFtKCLFUyDgLwCnSIdlKqVvGgfyY f429OqLGBUsxC2+LdTI8mF+rKgqS373fCVMbR3chsa5flC3PXO3ygzSQT7qZ+RkWfO VYalhK2/HLfIg== Received: from mail.finder.org (unknown [192.155.80.58]) by greenhill.hpalace.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D40D65BD; Sun, 27 Sep 2026 01:33:26 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2026 18:33:26 -0700 From: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> To: =?UTF-8?Q?Johan_Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hg6hsEi-5puWL-BqNGhrXyF2oxjEjTxLbKT6FUAZ-xFBw@HIDDEN> References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> <87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN> <293a3beaae1bf2c423059df254f59552@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN> <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> <c45233ae6515a5860415999dd256f60e@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hg6hsEi-5puWL-BqNGhrXyF2oxjEjTxLbKT6FUAZ-xFBw@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <8467ef43ccb5c702f977f2cd7b525460@HIDDEN> X-Sender: jared@HIDDEN Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_fc37363addae0cc648477fef077301bc" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=_fc37363addae0cc648477fef077301bc Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed On 2026-09-26 06:12, Johan Myréen wrote: > On Sat, 26 Sept 2026 at 07:59, Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> wrote: > >> Attached is a patch that adds documentation of WAYLAND_DISPLAY and >> BROADWAY_DISPLAY to the Emacs manual. This documents existing >> behavior >> independent of the new heuristic patch. > > Looks good to me. > > Maybe we could add a short paragraph on the syntax of WAYLAND_DISPLAY > in C.5 Specifying the Display Name, perhaps after the third paragraph > describing the syntax of DISPLAY. Good idea, I added sections for Wayland and Broadway. 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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available To: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a200a5065c62966a" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --000000000000a200a5065c62966a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, 26 Sept 2026 at 07:59, Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> wrote: > > Attached is a patch that adds documentation of WAYLAND_DISPLAY and > BROADWAY_DISPLAY to the Emacs manual. This documents existing behavior > independent of the new heuristic patch. Looks good to me. Maybe we could add a short paragraph on the syntax of WAYLAND_DISPLAY in C.5 Specifying the Display Name, perhaps after the third paragraph describing the syntax of DISPLAY. --000000000000a200a5065c62966a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"lt= r" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, 26 Sept 2026 at 07:59, Jared Finder <<a = href=3D"mailto:jared@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">jared@HIDDEN</a>>= wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px = 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br> Attached is a patch that adds documentation of WAYLAND_DISPLAY and <br> BROADWAY_DISPLAY to the Emacs manual.=C2=A0 This documents existing behavio= r <br> independent of the new heuristic patch.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Loo= ks good to me.</div><div><br></div><div>Maybe we could add a short paragrap= h on the syntax of WAYLAND_DISPLAY in C.5 Specifying the Display Name, perh= aps=C2=A0after the third paragraph describing the syntax of DISPLAY.</div><= br></div></div> </div> --000000000000a200a5065c62966a--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Sep 2026 04:59:25 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 26 00:59:25 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34354 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1xAKVR-0004DC-1D for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2026 00:59:25 -0400 Received: from greenhill.hpalace.com ([192.155.80.58]:34500) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jared@HIDDEN>) id 1xAKVO-0004Co-BD for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2026 00:59:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=finder.org; s=2018; t=1790398761; bh=6/MzRZ/1kk8DeYIFp708zCFSEjGptcAh3L975SR6eqM=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=M4jETx0I5tiWtxlx6ucVpYAB9w8CDpTpU6cBfRD8sAjYHUA62sc1EGCNeIAZpmAt4 aZEVN804+HFa/uV0xFi1Vi/jVIG9UDewoBE2+DXFHPnoiXIfuqYMhn25awr3zxlbh9 5WQ2TtljC5VP5nGzPPKjM8Aa1zjO4RHjIc8rb6QnT9jl03MRJnhYU2eVe/f3JehOG+ ki//Rm5NvwbuRmv94GykWfcSWzVLtqPViONb+ygNt+kGk/l2/aRJq5GO0hUsH309ah cT/kgkIfGP7OC7A6GFdLkGslC24VXtD3KmEVOVJMSg43zgZ/dTmYqIvrLoD7DUCXQQ gMoX1WYd25/Rw== Received: from mail.finder.org (unknown [192.155.80.58]) by greenhill.hpalace.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1CECA5CB; Sat, 26 Sep 2026 04:59:21 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2026 21:59:20 -0700 From: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> To: =?UTF-8?Q?Johan_Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available In-Reply-To: <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> <87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN> <293a3beaae1bf2c423059df254f59552@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN> <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <c45233ae6515a5860415999dd256f60e@HIDDEN> X-Sender: jared@HIDDEN Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_d271d47870e23bd465059ee0f8de3efe" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=_d271d47870e23bd465059ee0f8de3efe Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed On 2026-09-23 08:30, Jared Finder wrote: > On 2026-09-23 07:38, Johan Myréen wrote: > >> I guess the NEWS entry should be brief and focus on what's new in the >> release. Which got me thinking that the Emacs manual should perhaps be >> updated to reflect this change. I suggest making changes to at least >> appendices C.2 Initial Options, C.4 Environment Variables, and C.5 >> Specifying the Display Name. > > That's a good idea. WAYLAND_DISPLAY is already mentioned in C.4 and > adding DISPLAY and BROADWAY_DISPLAY next to it makes sense to me. > Similarly, adding mentions of WAYLAND_DISPLAY and BROADWAY_DISPLAY to > C.5 seems appropriate. Attached is a patch that adds documentation of WAYLAND_DISPLAY and BROADWAY_DISPLAY to the Emacs manual. This documents existing behavior independent of the new heuristic patch. -- MJF --=_d271d47870e23bd465059ee0f8de3efe Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/x-diff; name=info-docs.diff Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=info-docs.diff; size=3239 ZGlmZiAtLWdpdCBhL2RvYy9lbWFjcy9jbWRhcmdzLnRleGkgYi9kb2MvZW1hY3MvY21kYXJncy50 ZXhpCmluZGV4IDU1YmYzYzZiOGNjLi5lYjZlYzkzYTBkZCAxMDA2NDQKLS0tIGEvZG9jL2VtYWNz L2NtZGFyZ3MudGV4aQorKysgYi9kb2MvZW1hY3MvY21kYXJncy50ZXhpCkBAIC0yMzcsOCArMjM3 LDkgQEAgSW5pdGlhbCBPcHRpb25zCiBAaXRlbXggLS1kaXNwbGF5PUB2YXJ7ZGlzcGxheX0KIEBv cGluZGV4IC0tZGlzcGxheQogQGNpbmRleCBkaXNwbGF5IGZvciBFbWFjcyBmcmFtZQotVXNlIHRo ZSBYIFdpbmRvdyBTeXN0ZW0gYW5kIHVzZSB0aGUgZGlzcGxheSBuYW1lZCBAdmFye2Rpc3BsYXl9 IHRvIG9wZW4KLXRoZSBpbml0aWFsIEVtYWNzIGZyYW1lLiAgQHhyZWZ7RGlzcGxheSBYfSwgZm9y IG1vcmUgZGV0YWlscy4KK1VzZSBhIGdyYXBoaWNhbCB3aW5kb3dpbmcgc3lzdGVtIHN1Y2ggYXMg WCBXaW5kb3cgU3lzdGVtLCBXYXlsYW5kLCBvcgorQnJvYWR3YXkgYW5kIHVzZSB0aGUgZGlzcGxh eSBuYW1lZCBAdmFye2Rpc3BsYXl9IHRvIG9wZW4gdGhlIGluaXRpYWwKK0VtYWNzIGZyYW1lLiAg QHhyZWZ7RGlzcGxheSBYfSwgZm9yIG1vcmUgZGV0YWlscy4KIAogQGl0ZW0gLW53CiBAb3BpbmRl eCAtbncKQEAgLTI0Niw5ICsyNDcsOSBAQCBJbml0aWFsIE9wdGlvbnMKIEBvcGluZGV4IC0tbm8t d2luZG93LXN5c3RlbQogQGNpbmRleCBkaXNhYmxlIHdpbmRvdyBzeXN0ZW0KIERvbid0IGNvbW11 bmljYXRlIGRpcmVjdGx5IHdpdGggdGhlIHdpbmRvdyBzeXN0ZW0sIGRpc3JlZ2FyZGluZyB0aGUK LUBlbnZ7RElTUExBWX0gZW52aXJvbm1lbnQgdmFyaWFibGUgZXZlbiBpZiBpdCBpcyBzZXQuICBU aGlzIG1lYW5zIHRoYXQKLUVtYWNzIHVzZXMgdGhlIHRlcm1pbmFsIGZyb20gd2hpY2ggaXQgd2Fz IGxhdW5jaGVkIGZvciBhbGwgaXRzIGRpc3BsYXkKLWFuZCBpbnB1dC4KK0BlbnZ7RElTUExBWX0s IEBlbnZ7V0FZTEFORF9ESVNQTEFZfSwgYW5kIEBlbnZ7QlJPQURXQVlfRElTUExBWX0KK2Vudmly b25tZW50IHZhcmlhYmxlcyBldmVuIGlmIGFueSBhcmUgc2V0LiAgVGhpcyBtZWFucyB0aGF0IEVt YWNzIHVzZXMKK3RoZSB0ZXJtaW5hbCBmcm9tIHdoaWNoIGl0IHdhcyBsYXVuY2hlZCBmb3IgYWxs IGl0cyBkaXNwbGF5IGFuZCBpbnB1dC4KIAogQGNpbmRleCBiYXRjaCBtb2RlCiBAaXRlbSAtYmF0 Y2gKQEAgLTgyMiwxMCArODIzLDYgQEAgTWlzYyBWYXJpYWJsZXMKIHRoZSBuZXR3b3JrIGxpYnJh cnkgYXQgc3RhcnR1cCwgaW5zdGVhZCBvZiB3YWl0aW5nIHVudGlsIHRoZSBmaXJzdAogdGltZSBp dCBpcyByZXF1aXJlZC4KIAotQGl0ZW0gV0FZTEFORF9ESVNQTEFZCi1QZ3RrIEVtYWNzIChidWls dCB3aXRoIEBvcHRpb257LS13aXRoLXBndGt9KSBjYW4gcnVuIG9uIFdheWxhbmQgbmF0aXZlbHku Ci1AZW52e1dBWUxBTkRfRElTUExBWX0gc3BlY2lmaWVzIHRoZSBjb25uZWN0aW9uIHRvIHRoZSBj b21wb3NpdG9yLgotCiBAaXRlbSBlbWFjc19kaXIKIE9uIE1TLVdpbmRvd3MsIEBlbnZ7ZW1hY3Nf ZGlyfSBpcyBhIHNwZWNpYWwgZW52aXJvbm1lbnQgdmFyaWFibGUsIHdoaWNoCiBpbmRpY2F0ZXMg dGhlIGZ1bGwgcGF0aCBvZiB0aGUgZGlyZWN0b3J5IGluIHdoaWNoIEVtYWNzIGlzIGluc3RhbGxl ZC4KQEAgLTg5NCwxNCArODkxLDI0IEBAIE1TLVdpbmRvd3MgUmVnaXN0cnkKIEBub2RlIERpc3Bs YXkgWAogQGFwcGVuZGl4c2VjIFNwZWNpZnlpbmcgdGhlIERpc3BsYXkgTmFtZQogQGNpbmRleCBk aXNwbGF5IG5hbWUgKFggV2luZG93IFN5c3RlbSkKK0BjaW5kZXggZGlzcGxheSBuYW1lIChXYXls YW5kKQorQGNpbmRleCBkaXNwbGF5IG5hbWUgKEJyb2Fkd2F5KQogQGNpbmRleCBAZW52e0RJU1BM QVl9IGVudmlyb25tZW50IHZhcmlhYmxlCi0KLSAgVGhlIGVudmlyb25tZW50IHZhcmlhYmxlIEBl bnZ7RElTUExBWX0gdGVsbHMgYWxsIFggY2xpZW50cywKLWluY2x1ZGluZyBFbWFjcywgd2hlcmUg dG8gZGlzcGxheSB0aGVpciB3aW5kb3dzLiAgSXRzIHZhbHVlIGlzIHNldCBieQotZGVmYXVsdCBp biBvcmRpbmFyeSBjaXJjdW1zdGFuY2VzLCB3aGVuIHlvdSBzdGFydCBhbiBYIHNlcnZlciBhbmQg cnVuCi1qb2JzIGxvY2FsbHkuICBZb3UgY2FuIHNwZWNpZnkgdGhlIGRpc3BsYXkgeW91cnNlbGY7 IG9uZSByZWFzb24gdG8gZG8KLXRoaXMgaXMgaWYgeW91IHdhbnQgdG8gbG9nIGludG8gYW5vdGhl ciBzeXN0ZW0gYW5kIHJ1biBFbWFjcyB0aGVyZSwKLWFuZCBoYXZlIHRoZSB3aW5kb3cgZGlzcGxh eWVkIGF0IHlvdXIgbG9jYWwgdGVybWluYWwuCitAY2luZGV4IEBlbnZ7V0FZTEFORF9ESVNQTEFZ fSBlbnZpcm9ubWVudCB2YXJpYWJsZQorQGNpbmRleCBAZW52e0JST0FEV0FZX0RJU1BMQVl9IGVu dmlyb25tZW50IHZhcmlhYmxlCisKKyAgVGhlIFggV2luZG93IFN5c3RlbSwgV2F5bGFuZCwgYW5k IEJyb2Fkd2F5IHdpbmRvd2luZyBzeXN0ZW1zIHVzZQorZW52aXJvbm1lbnQgdmFyaWFibGVzIHRv IHRlbGwgY2xpZW50cyB3aGVyZSB0byBkaXNwbGF5IHRoZWlyIHdpbmRvd3MuCitUaGUgWCBXaW5k b3cgc3lzdGVtIHVzZXMgdGhlIGVudmlyb25tZW50IHZhcmlhYmxlIEBlbnZ7RElTUExBWX0sIFdh eWxhbmQKK3VzZXMgQGVudntXQVlMQU5EX0RJU1BMQVl9LCBhbmQgQnJvYWR3YXkgdXNlcyBAZW52 e0JST0FEV0FZX0RJU1BMQVl9LgorVGhlIHZhbHVlcyBhcmUgc2V0IGJ5IGRlZmF1bHQgaW4gb3Jk aW5hcnkgY2lyY3Vtc3RhbmNlcywgd2hlbiB5b3Ugc3RhcnQKK2EgZGlzcGxheSBzZXJ2ZXIgYW5k IHJ1biBqb2JzIGxvY2FsbHkuICBPbmx5IFBndGsgRW1hY3MgKGJ1aWx0IHdpdGgKK0BvcHRpb257 LS13aXRoLXBndGt9KSBjYW4gcnVuIG9uIFdheWxhbmQgb3IgQnJvYWR3YXkgbmF0aXZlbHkuCisK K1lvdSBjYW4gc3BlY2lmeSB0aGUgZGlzcGxheSB5b3Vyc2VsZjsgb25lIHJlYXNvbiB0byBkbyB0 aGlzIGlzIGlmIHlvdQord2FudCB0byBsb2cgaW50byBhbm90aGVyIHN5c3RlbSBhbmQgcnVuIEVt YWNzIHRoZXJlLCBhbmQgaGF2ZSB0aGUgd2luZG93CitkaXNwbGF5ZWQgYXQgeW91ciBsb2NhbCB0 ZXJtaW5hbC4gIFRoaXMgaXMgbW9zdCBjb21tb24gZm9yIHRoZSBYIFdpbmRvdworU3lzdGVtLgog CiAgIEBlbnZ7RElTUExBWX0gaGFzIHRoZSBzeW50YXgKIEBzYW1we0B2YXJ7aG9zdH06QHZhcntk aXNwbGF5fS5AdmFye3NjcmVlbn19LCB3aGVyZSBAdmFye2hvc3R9IGlzIHRoZQo= --=_d271d47870e23bd465059ee0f8de3efe--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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Thu, 24 Sep 2026 06:10:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by athena.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 58A46282B22; Thu, 24 Sep 2026 11:10:16 +0100 (BST) From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> To: Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hjBrLzewQckDZ55aeL7MsgyXf459xe_iUUz83xDyxo9hw@HIDDEN> References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> <87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN> <293a3beaae1bf2c423059df254f59552@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN> <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTsGK13gJPjH1J_F6phCK7JGGd5-1Uu2TTLT2jpxcGbQ@HIDDEN> <86ld8rb5y6.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjLyN-udUZB=PZbmqpt46ynEtf=iu_GDMQBhv64LbKn1Q@HIDDEN> <87ik3vasqh.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjBrLzewQckDZ55aeL7MsgyXf459xe_iUUz83xDyxo9hw@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2026 11:10:16 +0100 Message-ID: <87v77v9czb.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>, Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Johan Myr=C3=A9en [24/Sep 12:49pm +03] wrote: > Den tors 24 sep. 2026 12.44Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> skrev: > >> >> I just realised though that I don't think you have signed the copyright >> papers. Is that something you're willing to do? >> > > I signed and sent the PDF file to the FSF two days ago. I don't know if it > is "online" yet. You'll get mail about it. Please ping this thread then. --=20 Sean Whitton
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2026 10:09:35 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 24 06:09:35 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47699 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1x9gOV-00089g-Az for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 Sep 2026 06:09:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59682) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1x9gOT-000890-7b for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 Sep 2026 06:09:34 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1x9gON-0007Yf-8M; Thu, 24 Sep 2026 06:09:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=9va2gfPpEGfERMxvT0OV2OTCsZtqX4WI0pjE5LS8zpg=; b=iunou2nEa7QroFfutI6J 5WaEPE9HRyB1iYE8ETlAKWUu5dbVTt11IZmDnGpmyNfz0HKJnCpfX9+TV1OUzL1s9ReaE35XDCVup L+rlwyZkNZBL2k2Xyxf16j57GECuQ7whi9fDN9gkXvZETeT85B5SZtp256ozbJZZaGSBg8CsYHXJ4 3s2Pd2Ce2esqGVNueNMYoY6SoKrY5Sqys8eR8vX8eBXsIQq83NsiymOa8+ai6vIZeX3H5Hmi404Jh Aa68uztZj/aww/atP+LFRQbKUZqShy4sOhe8heHgLWRhZroBYLGTiLHdHSnih32j9OvMqmfn09kCR wDNaywSvKOasVA==; Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2026 13:09:23 +0300 Message-Id: <86a4p79d0s.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hjBrLzewQckDZ55aeL7MsgyXf459xe_iUUz83xDyxo9hw@HIDDEN> (message from Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= on Thu, 24 Sep 2026 12:49:55 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> <87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN> <293a3beaae1bf2c423059df254f59552@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN> <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTsGK13gJPjH1J_F6phCK7JGGd5-1Uu2TTLT2jpxcGbQ@HIDDEN> <86ld8rb5y6.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjLyN-udUZB=PZbmqpt46ynEtf=iu_GDMQBhv64LbKn1Q@HIDDEN> <87ik3vasqh.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjBrLzewQckDZ55aeL7MsgyXf459xe_iUUz83xDyxo9hw@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: jared@HIDDEN, luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2026 12:49:55 +0300 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>, > Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, > martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > Den tors 24 sep. 2026 12.44Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> skrev: > > I just realised though that I don't think you have signed the copyright > papers. Is that something you're willing to do? > > I signed and sent the PDF file to the FSF two days ago. I don't know if it is "online" yet. It isn't, and won't be until you receive another email with the PDF counter-signed by the FSF.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available To: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000361334065c37860c" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>, Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --000000000000361334065c37860c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Den tors 24 sep. 2026 12.44Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> skrev: > > I just realised though that I don't think you have signed the copyright > papers. Is that something you're willing to do? > I signed and sent the PDF file to the FSF two days ago. I don't know if it is "online" yet. Johan --000000000000361334065c37860c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"auto"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D= "gmail_attr">Den tors 24 sep. 2026 12.44Sean Whitton <<a href=3D"mailto:= spwhitton@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">spwhitton@sp= whitton.name</a>> skrev:</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D= "margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <br> I just realised though that I don't think you have signed the copyright= <br> papers.=C2=A0 Is that something you're willing to do?<br></blockquote><= /div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I signed and sent = the PDF file to the FSF two days ago. I don't know if it is "onlin= e" yet.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Johan</div>= <div dir=3D"auto"><br></div></div> --000000000000361334065c37860c--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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Thu, 24 Sep 2026 05:44:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by athena.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A0F51282B0F; Thu, 24 Sep 2026 10:44:38 +0100 (BST) From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> To: Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hjLyN-udUZB=PZbmqpt46ynEtf=iu_GDMQBhv64LbKn1Q@HIDDEN> References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> <87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN> <293a3beaae1bf2c423059df254f59552@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN> <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTsGK13gJPjH1J_F6phCK7JGGd5-1Uu2TTLT2jpxcGbQ@HIDDEN> <86ld8rb5y6.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjLyN-udUZB=PZbmqpt46ynEtf=iu_GDMQBhv64LbKn1Q@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2026 10:44:38 +0100 Message-ID: <87ik3vasqh.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, jared@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Johan Myr=C3=A9en [24/Sep 9:37am +03] wrote: > Attached is the sixth and hopefully last version of the patch. My wish is > that this version could be released "into the wild." Looks good. I just realised though that I don't think you have signed the copyright papers. Is that something you're willing to do? --=20 Sean Whitton
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000f32525065c34d40d" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: jared@HIDDEN, luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --000000000000f32525065c34d40d Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f32524065c34d40b" --000000000000f32524065c34d40b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Attached is the sixth and hopefully last version of the patch. My wish is that this version could be released "into the wild." Let's see if we get into a situation like in https://xkcd.com/1172/. --000000000000f32524065c34d40b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Attached is the sixth and hopefully last version of t= he patch. My wish is</div><div>that=C2=A0this version=C2=A0could be release= d "into the wild."</div><div><br></div><div>Let's see if we g= et into a situation like in=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://xkcd.com/1172/">https:/= /xkcd.com/1172/</a>.</div><div><br></div></div> --000000000000f32524065c34d40b-- --000000000000f32525065c34d40d Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset="US-ASCII"; name="pgtk-display-fix6.diff" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pgtk-display-fix6.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <f_muf5gwjw0> X-Attachment-Id: f_muf5gwjw0 ZGlmZiAtLWdpdCBhL2V0Yy9ORVdTIGIvZXRjL05FV1MKaW5kZXggNGEwYzIxMzc3ZTguLjBlMzM5 ZDE5NDExIDEwMDY0NAotLS0gYS9ldGMvTkVXUworKysgYi9ldGMvTkVXUwpAQCAtMzEsNiArMzEs MTQgQEAgYXBwbGllcywgYW5kIHBsZWFzZSBhbHNvIHVwZGF0ZSBkb2NzdHJpbmdzIGFzIG5lZWRl ZC4KIEVtYWNzIG5vdyBzdXBwb3J0cyB0aGUgJ0ttc2NvbicgdGVybWluYWwgZW11bGF0b3IgYXZh aWxhYmxlIG9uIEdOVS9MaW51eAogc3lzdGVtcy4KIAorKiogTmV3IGhldXJpc3RpYyBmb3IgY2hv b3NpbmcgdGhlIGRpc3BsYXkgbW9kZS4KK1RoZSBQR1RLIGJ1aWxkIG9mIEVtYWNzIHN0YXJ0cyBp biB0ZXh0IGNvbnNvbGUgbW9kZSBpZiB0aGUgZW52aXJvbm1lbnQKK3ZhcmlhYmxlIFhER19TRVNT SU9OX1RZUEUgaGFzIHRoZSB2YWx1ZSAidHR5IiBhbmQgdGhlIERJU1BMQVksCitXQVlMQU5EX0RJ U1BMQVksIGFuZCBCUk9BRFdBWV9ESVNQTEFZIHZhcmlhYmxlcyBhcmUgYWxsIHVuc2V0LgorUHJl dmlvdXNseSwgRW1hY3Mgd291bGQgdHJ5IHRvIG9wZW4gYSBncmFwaGljYWwgd2luZG93IGluIHNp dHVhdGlvbnMKK3doZW4gdGhlIHVzZXIgd2FzIG5vdCBleHBlY3RpbmcgaXQuICBQYXNzIC1udyBv ciAtLWRpc3BsYXkgb24gdGhlCitjb21tYW5kIGxpbmUgdG8gb3ZlcnJpZGUgdGhlIGhldXJpc3Rp Yy4KKwogDAogKiBDaGFuZ2VzIGluIEVtYWNzIDMyLjEKIApkaWZmIC0tZ2l0IGEvc3JjL2Rpc3Bu ZXcuYyBiL3NyYy9kaXNwbmV3LmMKaW5kZXggZGQ3OTljNjJkMDIuLjQ1ODdlYmUyZTQxIDEwMDY0 NAotLS0gYS9zcmMvZGlzcG5ldy5jCisrKyBiL3NyYy9kaXNwbmV3LmMKQEAgLTcyOTksNiArNzI5 OSwyMyBAQCBpbml0X2Rpc3BsYXlfaW50ZXJhY3RpdmUgKHZvaWQpCiAjZW5kaWYKIAogI2lmZGVm IEhBVkVfUEdUSworICAvKiBJZiBYREdfU0VTU0lPTl9UWVBFID09ICJ0dHkiIGFuZCBub25lIG9m IHRoZSBkaXNwbGF5IHZhcmlhYmxlcyBhcmUKKyAgICAgc2V0LCBhc3N1bWUgYSBncmFwaGljYWwg ZGlzcGxheSBpcyB1bmF2YWlsYWJsZSwgdW5sZXNzIHRoZSBkaXNwbGF5CisgICAgIGlzIHNwZWNp ZmllZCBvbiB0aGUgY29tbWFuZCBsaW5lLiAgKi8KKyAgaWYgKCEgaW5oaWJpdF93aW5kb3dfc3lz dGVtICYmICEgZGlzcGxheV9hcmcpCisgICAgeworICAgICAgY2hhciAqc2Vzc2lvbl90eXBlID0g Z2V0ZW52ICgiWERHX1NFU1NJT05fVFlQRSIpOworICAgICAgY2hhciAqZGlzcGxheSA9IGdldGVu diAoIkRJU1BMQVkiKTsKKyAgICAgIGNoYXIgKndheWxhbmRfZGlzcGxheSA9IGdldGVudiAoIldB WUxBTkRfRElTUExBWSIpOworICAgICAgY2hhciAqYnJvYWR3YXlfZGlzcGxheSA9IGdldGVudiAo IkJST0FEV0FZX0RJU1BMQVkiKTsKKworICAgICAgaWYgKHNlc3Npb25fdHlwZSAhPSAwICYmIHN0 cmNtcCAoc2Vzc2lvbl90eXBlLCAidHR5IikgPT0gMAorCSAgJiYgISAoZGlzcGxheSAhPSAwICYm ICpkaXNwbGF5ICE9IDApCisJICAmJiAhICh3YXlsYW5kX2Rpc3BsYXkgIT0gMCAmJiAqd2F5bGFu ZF9kaXNwbGF5ICE9IDApCisJICAmJiAhIChicm9hZHdheV9kaXNwbGF5ICE9IDAgJiYgKmJyb2Fk d2F5X2Rpc3BsYXkgIT0gMCkpCisJaW5oaWJpdF93aW5kb3dfc3lzdGVtID0gMTsKKyAgICB9CisK ICAgaWYgKCFpbmhpYml0X3dpbmRvd19zeXN0ZW0gJiYgIXdpbGxfZHVtcF9wICgpKQogICAgIHsK ICAgICAgIFZpbml0aWFsX3dpbmRvd19zeXN0ZW0gPSBRcGd0azsK --000000000000f32525065c34d40d--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2026 04:59:29 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 24 00:59:29 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47364 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1x9bYN-0002Ix-Nz for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 Sep 2026 00:59:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33132) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1x9bYK-0002Hz-Jr for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 Sep 2026 00:59:26 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1x9bYE-0008C2-Ck; Thu, 24 Sep 2026 00:59:18 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=bXaz0XBytI0+v49/TgoLsBDVf3WPlYAzVFpjzlSFRJs=; b=b3wpVX5HQipcFwh0qx7Q 4kVzKmDN+nn0YL47APTnrYOXUbgbtCYPS7xvMg3nTZDozXPRZFhTuttOGJeMhu0/4pg8/qfEsHIFG 8xGB+WZBrXc4Lh6Qm4V0WZIng+Sx0L/vxRfuoyGxec066kPqRZmbx6hzOSf+2v23sud5HvlDzl/Ra aqw+sRNifQb0VOMfM3WPcIuH/JhSIOZFzk+eovXs/LnX9vD6Aztu2XPcecf+ING7qNI2GF5ZuHKOf MZEaRI96GyycAAy54LBV2CgOHICIPhZlyq81kIrYXxrcX1C1wiPkctalB8eVx7wwhRbdnnzUzMWy3 eC36ThURogHGMQ==; Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2026 07:59:13 +0300 Message-Id: <86ld8rb5y6.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hiTsGK13gJPjH1J_F6phCK7JGGd5-1Uu2TTLT2jpxcGbQ@HIDDEN> (message from Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= on Wed, 23 Sep 2026 20:29:07 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> <87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN> <293a3beaae1bf2c423059df254f59552@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN> <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTsGK13gJPjH1J_F6phCK7JGGd5-1Uu2TTLT2jpxcGbQ@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: jared@HIDDEN, luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> > Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2026 20:29:07 +0300 > Cc: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, > Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, > 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > On Wed, 23 Sept 2026 at 18:30, Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> wrote: > > On 2026-09-23 07:38, Johan Myréen wrote: > > > On Wed, 23 Sept 2026 at 07:13, Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> wrote: > > > >> I think we should also mention in the NEWS file how to display this > >> functionality by passing --display on the command line. > > > > I'm not sure what you mean. In what way would you use --display on the > > command line > > demonstrate what the change does? Could you give an example? > > I was thinking the NEWS would tell users what to do if the heuristic did > the wrong thing. Something like this at the end: > > Pass -nw or --display on the command line to disable this heuristic. > > I guess you meant to say "disable this functionality" instead of "display". > That confused me. How about > > Pass -nw or --display on the command line to override this heuristic. > > On the other hand, that's not news: the -nw and --display options have > been available for a long time and always had the last say. The sentence > also gives the impression that we don't fully trust the change that has > been made. > > What are others' thoughts about this? When we make changes in behavior that could in some cases cause unwanted results, it's a good idea to tell in NEWS how to overcome those unwanted results. It's true that these options always did what they will continue doing (and I personally always use -nw when I want a TTY session, even if I invoke Emacs on a system that cannot possibly show a GUI frame), but mentioning them in this context cannot do any harm, while it could help someone who bumps into this new behavior and is pissed by it, a mood when looking up the solution in our manuals might not be a favorable task.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2026 04:41:33 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 24 00:41:33 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43256 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1x9bH2-0008Pj-Q9 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 Sep 2026 00:41:33 -0400 Received: from greenhill.hpalace.com ([192.155.80.58]:43348) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jared@HIDDEN>) id 1x9bH0-0008PD-NZ for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 Sep 2026 00:41:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=finder.org; s=2018; t=1790224889; bh=CjLphXBZKNLU0TVaDOmmu5tgTHU1Dn6/9sq3Kjjx4pU=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=oQ6uviyKy28WnbX0gRxqm+2Kzdg1cDG+WojaE299D9UAY50hQigtKzKZBQrpUWO0w gXitSi5Rura8o2OaoiSSNxSC9xevWfEZtf0UhPVoP8Obc0eY5f9Rdh8kbW5/g3+I7S j1dHwxddV73q1km8qcCc5TeIvPdQVXh5A6AE8QsrN8yBy5vDgmEOYsde9LT23LsICu bLQb54KXeBvkyAkunqHuR1fakW7A5FpceEHk4/U7ENGAZhUAoHtZmqRFAQCFoMr6Vi b0zjRz1JteSvEDYMzv6vZobkl+5s4g+ugN2m0od4jYpC6i+pQQS/8ke1ZgAafIu07M btv2YTVjd0XlA== Received: from mail.finder.org (unknown [192.155.80.58]) by greenhill.hpalace.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5226B621; Thu, 24 Sep 2026 04:41:29 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2026 21:41:29 -0700 From: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> To: =?UTF-8?Q?Johan_Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hiTsGK13gJPjH1J_F6phCK7JGGd5-1Uu2TTLT2jpxcGbQ@HIDDEN> References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> <87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN> <293a3beaae1bf2c423059df254f59552@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN> <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTsGK13gJPjH1J_F6phCK7JGGd5-1Uu2TTLT2jpxcGbQ@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <d37aa5858dce58dbf9b7b004fc1bd71d@HIDDEN> X-Sender: jared@HIDDEN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2026-09-23 10:29, Johan Myréen wrote: > On Wed, 23 Sept 2026 at 18:30, Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> wrote: >> >> I was thinking the NEWS would tell users what to do if the heuristic >> did >> the wrong thing. Something like this at the end: >> >> Pass -nw or --display on the command line to disable this heuristic. > > I guess you meant to say "disable this functionality" instead of > "display". > That confused me. How about > > Pass -nw or --display on the command line to override this heuristic. Sorry about the confusion. That sounds fine to me. > On the other hand, that's not news: the -nw and --display options have > been available for a long time and always had the last say. The > sentence > also gives the impression that we don't fully trust the change that has > been made. > > What are others' thoughts about this? When reading NEWS I find it helpful when the entry mentions related controls even if they are not new. But open to other structures here. -- MJF
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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AKwUvBw3pP8STz0Q8bOZ2CjMA69T/AHLaHW5eXkNPOQ5FDootYo22Y1etWIsjU3yLq0OfUBW9ZLuLQ==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AFuF++lZk8v2e4SosmDnNixHDziOI2IUW7SBoers8aAh9FuADxHvfy0o U0QXKbHvZ8DDmj6htUdZ0Mx5KxVU83FOWyETboEmVxn7yZgPQbX+DubDBKs8N7JXBFl0mmRBHFh KMsTxIIH4pB1ovqHkKUQ1zneTZJeadeM= X-Gm-Gg: AYBFou3/38D64LV2GreP4iT+ceSd/akWWVWkk/5TS7fe5dbsey9BekDNHwxejPGKy8W 944VosT4fkKstwO15acI5kiL0PumAX9Gz6NbyrgjFWfI22jc43vNvkIcHs/U4Ae3gj7/TuXbtJ7 mH39eeEo15epq3VMmyW+VIXVU7KcYK9BDBI9zavulAxw73mqgGP0/8x0tCZIiwfyab4b0Bz0bqD T3CHVD7mXwAcK48LsWCMt2rRLrdL/w0LOWNDrKC/BEsFqM2Viovq3IZjnM4qtZSqF8C97hlADJU x1/L3unb5ti9u0p1N9UNYkxoQrIKFSa2Gzk3Na2zsRR2iHEPYJDoO6+IWA/H7nzQiHer7mek36T aJKapJ5Zv8UJGFbd1yVao X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5f95:0:b0:530:cf10:8a97 with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-532eadce007mr49395511cf.38.1790184559401; Wed, 23 Sep 2026 10:29:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> <87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN> <293a3beaae1bf2c423059df254f59552@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN> <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Johan_Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2026 20:29:07 +0300 X-Gm-Features: AcwNN1XcROu6MgmzDD3mXAGd_RAVehtjmD1mzkLttvPwAVPjR6JQ1EifBvK7cps Message-ID: <CA+TD5hiTsGK13gJPjH1J_F6phCK7JGGd5-1Uu2TTLT2jpxcGbQ@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available To: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bedd5f065c29d2f9" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --000000000000bedd5f065c29d2f9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 23 Sept 2026 at 18:30, Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> wrote: > On 2026-09-23 07:38, Johan Myr=C3=A9en wrote: > > > On Wed, 23 Sept 2026 at 07:13, Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> wrote: > > > >> I think we should also mention in the NEWS file how to display this > >> functionality by passing --display on the command line. > > > > I'm not sure what you mean. In what way would you use --display on the > > command line > > demonstrate what the change does? Could you give an example? > > I was thinking the NEWS would tell users what to do if the heuristic did > the wrong thing. Something like this at the end: > > Pass -nw or --display on the command line to disable this heuristic. I guess you meant to say "disable this functionality" instead of "display". That confused me. How about Pass -nw or --display on the command line to override this heuristic. On the other hand, that's not news: the -nw and --display options have been available for a long time and always had the last say. The sentence also gives the impression that we don't fully trust the change that has been made. What are others' thoughts about this? --000000000000bedd5f065c29d2f9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir= =3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, 23 Sept 2026 at 18:30, Jared Finder &= lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jared@HIDDEN">jared@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br><= /div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo= rder-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On 2026-09-23 07:38,= Johan Myr=C3=A9en wrote:<br> <br> > On Wed, 23 Sept 2026 at 07:13, Jared Finder <<a href=3D"mailto:jare= d@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">jared@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br> > <br> >> I think we should also mention in the NEWS file how to display thi= s<br> >> functionality by passing --display on the command line.<br> > <br> > I'm not sure what you mean. In what way would you use --display on= the <br> > command line<br> > demonstrate what the change does? Could you give an example?<br> <br> I was thinking the NEWS would tell users what to do if the heuristic did <b= r> the wrong thing. Something like this at the end:<br> <br> Pass -nw or --display on the command line to disable this heuristic.</block= quote><div><br></div><div>I guess you meant to say "disable this funct= ionality" instead of "display".</div><div>That confused me. = How about</div><div><br></div><div>Pass -nw or --display on the command lin= e to override this heuristic.</div><div><br></div><div>On the other hand, t= hat's not news: the -nw and --display options have</div><div>been avail= able for a long time and always had the last say. The sentence</div><div>al= so gives the impression that=C2=A0we don't fully trust the change that = has</div><div>been made.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>What are others' th= oughts about this?</div><div><br></div></div></div> --000000000000bedd5f065c29d2f9--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Sep 2026 15:44:46 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 23 11:44:45 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34903 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1x9P9F-0006J1-Jw for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Sep 2026 11:44:45 -0400 Received: from greenhill.hpalace.com ([192.155.80.58]:41970) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jared@HIDDEN>) id 1x9P97-0006HT-5t for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Sep 2026 11:44:37 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=finder.org; s=2018; t=1790178271; bh=deogYXdfu0Xv2sgEUpIlJ8iFqQBMchZLZhLyQ0oTLqI=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=ryXYQNY/i5E7b3hOifQ63ToTlOlmE+isL2jFBO1dmI6e82p6BBfe/lWtDJLzets4z SgT/pPY0F1L5ekMWklNvhrRc7VRCCxd59gL0VLZ7GcD2XrsJukg6dm9lC5Iv5tq0zM N9ml2wYplXxDxfXrOAT8tz2gE1Va5gRiBDb+qTXbYpQRHozhmZ86wcgSEFxDW+DC4V HUUXq2kt7RvwUm15k74b70x/DUD0gZmjHDqDXE4Dpbeq0Np2hwGRUXvMLHP0iM8iN6 6RCNQ/PLjiLc9XqCN+quegEn29nlbMh0xtl99QyO71xT2DeMtrM3HHpul/Z5mB5mMc o1PYmJkAEgCXA== Received: from mail.finder.org (unknown [192.155.80.58]) by greenhill.hpalace.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B4C6F656; Wed, 23 Sep 2026 15:44:31 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2026 08:44:31 -0700 From: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> To: =?UTF-8?Q?Johan_Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available In-Reply-To: <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> <87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN> <293a3beaae1bf2c423059df254f59552@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN> <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <1efa0af04e9332255a30804ea85e2d17@HIDDEN> X-Sender: jared@HIDDEN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2026-09-23 08:30, Jared Finder wrote: > On 2026-09-23 07:38, Johan Myréen wrote: >> On Wed, 23 Sept 2026 at 07:13, Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> wrote: >> >>> I think we should also mention in the NEWS file how to display this >>> functionality by passing --display on the command line. >> >> I'm not sure what you mean. In what way would you use --display on the >> command line >> demonstrate what the change does? Could you give an example? > > I was thinking the NEWS would tell users what to do if the heuristic > did the wrong thing. Something like this at the end: > > Pass -nw or --display on the command line to disable this heuristic. > >> I guess the NEWS entry should be brief and focus on what's new in the >> release. Which got me thinking that the Emacs manual should perhaps be >> updated to reflect this change. I suggest making changes to at least >> appendices C.2 Initial Options, C.4 Environment Variables, and C.5 >> Specifying the Display Name. > > That's a good idea. WAYLAND_DISPLAY is already mentioned in C.4 and > adding DISPLAY and BROADWAY_DISPLAY next to it makes sense to me. > Similarly, adding mentions of WAYLAND_DISPLAY and BROADWAY_DISPLAY to > C.5 seems appropriate. One other thought -- the Display X, Font X, Colors X, etc. sections apply to graphical displays in general, not just X. Should we update their names to something like Display (Graphical), Font (Graphical), etc.? I can create a separate patch. -- MJF
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Sep 2026 15:30:38 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 23 11:30:37 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59863 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1x9Ova-0004Hh-Bz for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Sep 2026 11:30:37 -0400 Received: from greenhill.hpalace.com ([192.155.80.58]:57000) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jared@HIDDEN>) id 1x9OvS-0004Fe-Ab for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Sep 2026 11:30:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=finder.org; s=2018; t=1790177424; bh=pF4MyVz4/ko6tDARrZ0d+Wq5xLAtHrxVdDkVNoYwvls=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=bjj1/eUdUQo6QjIjgYlKXjbk707pA4hoZhcNomu5Ov2AntjIXgXxzp2aQ3Co5fUtj S/8CXbe5KDOKITir6ASQyKG2VvXq7Q3IZxAG5YMy+5zU4qPngQmWDfJZAVNVin8Lwp IYYuB+Njk2v0gb7rmB1up2l8aJ7gdb9ElMBSLA7Jv+9AOpwi3J8KO/kHgcvQsEH5FQ 4PMKyTb4N7RUdWfgHvZ+lCWN9/NNIIedqtRRUk3Ybr43dcauTHtOONxs9guaOEo9CC 4Jf852BR9u9zFBKyFe0YROZtIgOGOsUOhSQvVx/npt5A9LMat9a0bDaSIt5EK8ZTtI kNGRQZjdCXnCw== Received: from mail.finder.org (unknown [192.155.80.58]) by greenhill.hpalace.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C8958656; Wed, 23 Sep 2026 15:30:24 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2026 08:30:24 -0700 From: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> To: =?UTF-8?Q?Johan_Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN> References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> <87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN> <293a3beaae1bf2c423059df254f59552@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgY3B_k0UPZ8YCOViSkp8979A5NOHhLK_b1vaY-y+o=iA@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <42e8b0d054facf52e49d2db6cb713f32@HIDDEN> X-Sender: jared@HIDDEN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2026-09-23 07:38, Johan Myréen wrote: > On Wed, 23 Sept 2026 at 07:13, Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> wrote: > >> I think we should also mention in the NEWS file how to display this >> functionality by passing --display on the command line. > > I'm not sure what you mean. In what way would you use --display on the > command line > demonstrate what the change does? Could you give an example? I was thinking the NEWS would tell users what to do if the heuristic did the wrong thing. Something like this at the end: Pass -nw or --display on the command line to disable this heuristic. > I guess the NEWS entry should be brief and focus on what's new in the > release. Which got me thinking that the Emacs manual should perhaps be > updated to reflect this change. I suggest making changes to at least > appendices C.2 Initial Options, C.4 Environment Variables, and C.5 > Specifying the Display Name. That's a good idea. WAYLAND_DISPLAY is already mentioned in C.4 and adding DISPLAY and BROADWAY_DISPLAY next to it makes sense to me. Similarly, adding mentions of WAYLAND_DISPLAY and BROADWAY_DISPLAY to C.5 seems appropriate. -- MJF
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available To: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001671aa065c2771db" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --0000000000001671aa065c2771db Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, 23 Sept 2026 at 07:13, Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> wrote: > I think we should also mention in the NEWS file how to display this > functionality by passing --display on the command line. I'm not sure what you mean. In what way would you use --display on the command line demonstrate what the change does? Could you give an example? I guess the NEWS entry should be brief and focus on what's new in the release. Which got me thinking that the Emacs manual should perhaps be updated to reflect this change. I suggest making changes to at least appendices C.2 Initial Options, C.4 Environment Variables, and C.5 Specifying the Display Name. --0000000000001671aa065c2771db Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir= =3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, 23 Sept 2026 at 07:13, Jared Finder &= lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jared@HIDDEN">jared@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br><= /div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px= 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I t= hink we should also mention in the NEWS file how to display this <br> functionality by passing --display on the command line.</blockquote><div><b= r></div><div>I'm not sure what you mean. In what=C2=A0way would you use= --display on the command line</div><div>demonstrate what the change does? = Could you give an example?</div><div><br></div><div>I guess the NEWS entry = should be brief and focus on what's new in the release. Which got me th= inking that the Emacs manual should perhaps be updated to reflect this chan= ge. I suggest making changes to at least appendices C.2 Initial Options, C.= 4 Environment Variables, and C.5=C2=A0Specifying the Display Name.</div><br= ></div></div> --0000000000001671aa065c2771db--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Sep 2026 04:13:26 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 23 00:13:26 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58153 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1x9EMH-0002CY-CF for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Sep 2026 00:13:25 -0400 Received: from greenhill.hpalace.com ([192.155.80.58]:40276) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jared@HIDDEN>) id 1x9EMD-0002C2-8p for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Sep 2026 00:13:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=finder.org; s=2018; t=1790136800; bh=J10rtmykDIkVODgQfQfJukhB+xz2TK13PiwNUJXnyFw=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=O94jw5NASeR141bYqzLQqOe4lrR74lFSs6Stue2UDzxQLybub6UmlZLK48jvw/dG+ 9CWaLTweKw+mGvemCuDrIM1xXwtCDRVIn3H0gPbeQr8utmztQ+7xe6UDWNcuw/lAzt rL5h2fpKdXcdOkUEWEip0nY1OjJlUJyGVsp7MjAsU77wcdNHS/wou+QpF4+K7uDkoP SHv47vw7jeIC7HoN606MF5PyeNIqRDlXmYQ75I8I1dfUQUyELU0W26mG4FTBo0+94h 6rnoFh526LAMAL5fuEoBgy8hYMyocy50VuSwVnh7p2U87KTX74CaDtiCU1jXVMoWl8 HBHMjj30Wabzw== Received: from mail.finder.org (unknown [192.155.80.58]) by greenhill.hpalace.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2385E621; Wed, 23 Sep 2026 04:13:20 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2026 21:13:19 -0700 From: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> To: =?UTF-8?Q?Johan_Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN> References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> <87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiaLbph4GtwLNK6nDG7sqNXdOi7HvLrRnB7JELSpBrdwQ@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <293a3beaae1bf2c423059df254f59552@HIDDEN> X-Sender: jared@HIDDEN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2026-09-22 11:41, Johan Myréen wrote: > On Tue, 22 Sept 2026 at 12:50, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> > wrote: > >> One minor point of style is that when there is a single statement as >> the >> body of an if, we prefer not to wrap it in curly braces. >> >> Otherwise I think this patch is ready, but let's document the new >> behaviour in NEWS? > > Attached is version 5 of the patch, which removes the extra curly > braces and > includes a very preliminary draft of a NEWS entry describing the > change. Looking > forward to the discussion. :) I think we should also mention in the NEWS file how to display this functionality by passing --display on the command line. -- MJF
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available To: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000fcfe62065c16b7c4" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>, luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --000000000000fcfe62065c16b7c4 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fcfe5e065c16b7c2" --000000000000fcfe5e065c16b7c2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, 22 Sept 2026 at 12:50, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> wrote: > One minor point of style is that when there is a single statement as the > body of an if, we prefer not to wrap it in curly braces. > > Otherwise I think this patch is ready, but let's document the new > behaviour in NEWS? Attached is version 5 of the patch, which removes the extra curly braces and includes a very preliminary draft of a NEWS entry describing the change. Looking forward to the discussion. :) --000000000000fcfe5e065c16b7c2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote g= mail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, 22 Sept= 2026 at 12:50, Sean Whitton <<a href=3D"mailto:spwhitton@HIDDEN= ">spwhitton@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gma= il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,2= 04,204);padding-left:1ex"> One minor point of style is that when there is a single statement as the<br= > body of an if, we prefer not to wrap it in curly braces.<br> <br> Otherwise I think this patch is ready, but let's document the new<br> behaviour in NEWS?</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Attached is version 5 of= the patch, which removes the extra curly braces and</div><div>includes a v= ery preliminary draft of a NEWS entry describing the change. Looking</div><= div>forward to the discussion. :)</div></div></div> --000000000000fcfe5e065c16b7c2-- --000000000000fcfe62065c16b7c4 Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset="US-ASCII"; name="pgtk-display-fix5.diff" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pgtk-display-fix5.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <f_mud0mz1r0> X-Attachment-Id: f_mud0mz1r0 ZGlmZiAtLWdpdCBhL2V0Yy9ORVdTIGIvZXRjL05FV1MKaW5kZXggMWNiMDQ3MDgwYWEuLjMzYTM3 MmFkYzM3IDEwMDY0NAotLS0gYS9ldGMvTkVXUworKysgYi9ldGMvTkVXUwpAQCAtMzEsNiArMzEs MTMgQEAgYXBwbGllcywgYW5kIHBsZWFzZSBhbHNvIHVwZGF0ZSBkb2NzdHJpbmdzIGFzIG5lZWRl ZC4KIEVtYWNzIG5vdyBzdXBwb3J0cyB0aGUgJ0ttc2NvbicgdGVybWluYWwgZW11bGF0b3IgYXZh aWxhYmxlIG9uIEdOVS9MaW51eAogc3lzdGVtcy4KIAorKiogTmV3IGhldXJpc3RpYyBmb3IgY2hv b3NpbmcgdGhlIGRpc3BsYXkgbW9kZS4KK1RoZSBQR1RLIGJ1aWxkIG9mIEVtYWNzIHN0YXJ0cyBp biB0ZXh0IGNvbnNvbGUgbW9kZSBpZiB0aGUgZW52aXJvbm1lbnQKK3ZhcmlhYmxlIFhER19TRVNT SU9OX1RZUEUgaGFzIHRoZSB2YWx1ZSAidHR5IiBhbmQgdGhlIERJU1BMQVksCitXQVlMQU5EX0RJ U1BMQVksIGFuZCBCUk9BRFdBWV9ESVNQTEFZIHZhcmlhYmxlcyBhcmUgYWxsCit1bnNldC4gIFBy ZXZpb3VzbHksIEVtYWNzIHdvdWxkIHRyeSB0byBvcGVuIGEgZ3JhcGhpY2FsIHdpbmRvdyBpbgor c2l0dWF0aW9ucyB3aGVuIHRoZSB1c2VyIHdhcyBub3QgZXhwZWN0aW5nIGl0LgorCiAMCiAqIENo YW5nZXMgaW4gRW1hY3MgMzIuMQogCmRpZmYgLS1naXQgYS9zcmMvZGlzcG5ldy5jIGIvc3JjL2Rp c3BuZXcuYwppbmRleCBkZDc5OWM2MmQwMi4uNDU4N2ViZTJlNDEgMTAwNjQ0Ci0tLSBhL3NyYy9k aXNwbmV3LmMKKysrIGIvc3JjL2Rpc3BuZXcuYwpAQCAtNzI5OSw2ICs3Mjk5LDIzIEBAIGluaXRf ZGlzcGxheV9pbnRlcmFjdGl2ZSAodm9pZCkKICNlbmRpZgogCiAjaWZkZWYgSEFWRV9QR1RLCisg IC8qIElmIFhER19TRVNTSU9OX1RZUEUgPT0gInR0eSIgYW5kIG5vbmUgb2YgdGhlIGRpc3BsYXkg dmFyaWFibGVzIGFyZQorICAgICBzZXQsIGFzc3VtZSBhIGdyYXBoaWNhbCBkaXNwbGF5IGlzIHVu YXZhaWxhYmxlLCB1bmxlc3MgdGhlIGRpc3BsYXkKKyAgICAgaXMgc3BlY2lmaWVkIG9uIHRoZSBj b21tYW5kIGxpbmUuICAqLworICBpZiAoISBpbmhpYml0X3dpbmRvd19zeXN0ZW0gJiYgISBkaXNw bGF5X2FyZykKKyAgICB7CisgICAgICBjaGFyICpzZXNzaW9uX3R5cGUgPSBnZXRlbnYgKCJYREdf U0VTU0lPTl9UWVBFIik7CisgICAgICBjaGFyICpkaXNwbGF5ID0gZ2V0ZW52ICgiRElTUExBWSIp OworICAgICAgY2hhciAqd2F5bGFuZF9kaXNwbGF5ID0gZ2V0ZW52ICgiV0FZTEFORF9ESVNQTEFZ Iik7CisgICAgICBjaGFyICpicm9hZHdheV9kaXNwbGF5ID0gZ2V0ZW52ICgiQlJPQURXQVlfRElT UExBWSIpOworCisgICAgICBpZiAoc2Vzc2lvbl90eXBlICE9IDAgJiYgc3RyY21wIChzZXNzaW9u X3R5cGUsICJ0dHkiKSA9PSAwCisJICAmJiAhIChkaXNwbGF5ICE9IDAgJiYgKmRpc3BsYXkgIT0g MCkKKwkgICYmICEgKHdheWxhbmRfZGlzcGxheSAhPSAwICYmICp3YXlsYW5kX2Rpc3BsYXkgIT0g MCkKKwkgICYmICEgKGJyb2Fkd2F5X2Rpc3BsYXkgIT0gMCAmJiAqYnJvYWR3YXlfZGlzcGxheSAh PSAwKSkKKwlpbmhpYml0X3dpbmRvd19zeXN0ZW0gPSAxOworICAgIH0KKwogICBpZiAoIWluaGli aXRfd2luZG93X3N5c3RlbSAmJiAhd2lsbF9kdW1wX3AgKCkpCiAgICAgewogICAgICAgVmluaXRp YWxfd2luZG93X3N5c3RlbSA9IFFwZ3RrOwo= --000000000000fcfe62065c16b7c4--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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Tue, 22 Sep 2026 05:50:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by athena.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6D0A6282AD4; Tue, 22 Sep 2026 10:50:19 +0100 (BST) From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> To: Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN>, Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hjd0q9677CPQ-8e=Ncy_d2VbLoNy6JSm1gEMzsQeEVFzw@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2026 10:50:19 +0100 Message-ID: <87y0cteht0.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Johan Myr=C3=A9en [22/Sep 9:56am +03] wrote: > On Tue, 22 Sept 2026 at 00:41, Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> wrote: > >> >> A minor comment on the patch, is there a reason this isn't in the >> existing HAVE_PGTK block a few lines lower? > > > I merged the two blocks. I also realized I had forgotten to check the val= ue > of display_arg, which is true when the display has been specified on the > command line. In that case it is assumed the user knows best and no chang= es > are done. > > Regarding Sean's earlier question about NULL vs 0: I copied the style used > earlier in the HAVE_X_WINDOWS block. Technically using 0 is valid C, but I > get that using NULL could help readability when comparing pointers. A thi= rd > alternative is to use "! display". I have no strong feelings about this, > and can change the style if you want. Thanks. I don't think we have a 0 vs NULL preference, actually. One minor point of style is that when there is a single statement as the body of an if, we prefer not to wrap it in curly braces. Otherwise I think this patch is ready, but let's document the new behaviour in NEWS? --=20 Sean Whitton
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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Tue, 22 Sep 2026 05:43:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by athena.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 77BBD282ABC; Tue, 22 Sep 2026 10:43:33 +0100 (BST) From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> To: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available In-Reply-To: <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2026 10:43:33 +0100 Message-ID: <871palfwoq.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, johan.myreen@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Jared Finder [21/Sep 2:41pm -07] wrote: > On 2026-09-21 08:53, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>> From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> >>> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, jared@HIDDEN, >>> luangruo@HIDDEN, >>> rudalics@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >>> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2026 16:17:47 +0100 >>> >>> > Attached is a new diff which checks for empty-valued variables, too. >>> >>> Possibly this should use egetenv not getenv >> >> Do we really want the value to be affected by process-environment and >> the frame parameters? If we don't, then getenv is exactly right. > > I don't think this should depend on Lisp state at all. The existing > logic in HAVE_X_WINDOWS uses getenv and I expect this to do the same. I was thinking it might possibly be helpful to let the user override it from Lisp. But if we think that could lead to the heuristic giving wrong results when the user doesn't intend that, getenv is fine. -- Sean Whitton
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available To: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000d87d32065c0cdf86" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --000000000000d87d32065c0cdf86 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d87d2f065c0cdf84" --000000000000d87d2f065c0cdf84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, 22 Sept 2026 at 00:41, Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> wrote: > > A minor comment on the patch, is there a reason this isn't in the > existing HAVE_PGTK block a few lines lower? I merged the two blocks. I also realized I had forgotten to check the value of display_arg, which is true when the display has been specified on the command line. In that case it is assumed the user knows best and no changes are done. Regarding Sean's earlier question about NULL vs 0: I copied the style used earlier in the HAVE_X_WINDOWS block. Technically using 0 is valid C, but I get that using NULL could help readability when comparing pointers. A third alternative is to use "! display". I have no strong feelings about this, and can change the style if you want. While I was fine-tuning the code I also changed the name of the wl_display variable to wayland_display, for clarity and to be in line with broadway_display. Attached is the fourth version of the patch. --000000000000d87d2f065c0cdf84 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmai= l_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, 22 Sept 2026 at 00:4= 1, Jared Finder <<a href=3D"mailto:jared@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">j= ared@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s= tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pad= ding-left:1ex"><br> A minor comment on the patch, is there a reason this isn't in the <br> existing HAVE_PGTK block a few lines lower?</blockquote><div><br></div><div= >I merged the two blocks. I also realized I had forgotten to check the valu= e of display_arg, which is true when the display has been specified on the = command line. In that case it is assumed=C2=A0the user knows best and no ch= anges are done.</div><div><br></div><div>Regarding Sean's earlier quest= ion about NULL vs 0: I copied the style used earlier in the HAVE_X_WINDOWS = block. Technically using 0 is valid C, but I get=C2=A0that using NULL could= help readability when comparing pointers. A third alternative is to use &q= uot;! display". I have no strong feelings about this, and can change t= he style if you want.</div><div><br></div><div>While I was fine-tuning the = code I also changed the name of the wl_display variable to wayland_display,= for clarity and to be in line with broadway_display.</div><div><br></div><= div>Attached is the fourth version of the patch.</div><div></div></div></di= v> </div> --000000000000d87d2f065c0cdf84-- --000000000000d87d32065c0cdf86 Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset="US-ASCII"; name="pgtk-display-fix4.diff" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pgtk-display-fix4.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <f_mucbh7dp0> X-Attachment-Id: f_mucbh7dp0 ZGlmZiAtLWdpdCBhL3NyYy9kaXNwbmV3LmMgYi9zcmMvZGlzcG5ldy5jCmluZGV4IGRkNzk5YzYy ZDAyLi4zZTE3MmI0MGQzMiAxMDA2NDQKLS0tIGEvc3JjL2Rpc3BuZXcuYworKysgYi9zcmMvZGlz cG5ldy5jCkBAIC03Mjk5LDYgKzcyOTksMjUgQEAgaW5pdF9kaXNwbGF5X2ludGVyYWN0aXZlICh2 b2lkKQogI2VuZGlmCiAKICNpZmRlZiBIQVZFX1BHVEsKKyAgLyogSWYgWERHX1NFU1NJT05fVFlQ RSA9PSAidHR5IiBhbmQgbm9uZSBvZiB0aGUgZGlzcGxheSB2YXJpYWJsZXMgYXJlCisgICAgIHNl dCwgYXNzdW1lIGEgZ3JhcGhpY2FsIGRpc3BsYXkgaXMgdW5hdmFpbGFibGUsIHVubGVzcyB0aGUg ZGlzcGxheQorICAgICBpcyBzcGVjaWZpZWQgb24gdGhlIGNvbW1hbmQgbGluZS4gICovCisgIGlm ICghIGluaGliaXRfd2luZG93X3N5c3RlbSAmJiAhIGRpc3BsYXlfYXJnKQorICAgIHsKKyAgICAg IGNoYXIgKnNlc3Npb25fdHlwZSA9IGdldGVudiAoIlhER19TRVNTSU9OX1RZUEUiKTsKKyAgICAg IGNoYXIgKmRpc3BsYXkgPSBnZXRlbnYgKCJESVNQTEFZIik7CisgICAgICBjaGFyICp3YXlsYW5k X2Rpc3BsYXkgPSBnZXRlbnYgKCJXQVlMQU5EX0RJU1BMQVkiKTsKKyAgICAgIGNoYXIgKmJyb2Fk d2F5X2Rpc3BsYXkgPSBnZXRlbnYgKCJCUk9BRFdBWV9ESVNQTEFZIik7CisKKyAgICAgIGlmIChz ZXNzaW9uX3R5cGUgIT0gMCAmJiBzdHJjbXAgKHNlc3Npb25fdHlwZSwgInR0eSIpID09IDAKKwkg ICYmICEgKGRpc3BsYXkgIT0gMCAmJiAqZGlzcGxheSAhPSAwKQorCSAgJiYgISAod2F5bGFuZF9k aXNwbGF5ICE9IDAgJiYgKndheWxhbmRfZGlzcGxheSAhPSAwKQorCSAgJiYgISAoYnJvYWR3YXlf ZGlzcGxheSAhPSAwICYmICpicm9hZHdheV9kaXNwbGF5ICE9IDApKQorCXsKKwkgIGluaGliaXRf d2luZG93X3N5c3RlbSA9IDE7CisJfQorICAgIH0KKwogICBpZiAoIWluaGliaXRfd2luZG93X3N5 c3RlbSAmJiAhd2lsbF9kdW1wX3AgKCkpCiAgICAgewogICAgICAgVmluaXRpYWxfd2luZG93X3N5 c3RlbSA9IFFwZ3RrOwo= --000000000000d87d32065c0cdf86--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Sep 2026 21:42:10 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 21 17:42:09 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32850 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1x8lm0-00055k-Fg for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Sep 2026 17:42:09 -0400 Received: from greenhill.hpalace.com ([192.155.80.58]:42380) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jared@HIDDEN>) id 1x8lls-00054J-HI for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Sep 2026 17:42:00 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=finder.org; s=2018; t=1790026915; bh=YZBXmKi3/Km5/nspVETm/zNqSMCkPtdQV4lixn0TQ74=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=PuFFNkioCYsXsA638XduNscQFCho5F4FRDWIg0hO5LUXHleWswlslYd6Z84gPokmw H1AqC2Syr9bRXUWPWnaZX1XPRnYzrNTLsST2oYzxJrHnFKJZAqNFHeWhTWtR0jMGBB FefpBhpUWHJbTnOmyj9qlASIfvxFzfiX4oKh2lsFjYpqh0VxctBCjXoOh94/KzBAW2 EYSPG/qVudfG8f5WCIMI+l4mtDQ/eSgKMiBZKGc4nCJdUJopSur7qKCK0p7433Qs47 w6NdMrfZwO2FRGPF59YbDHwDpYMsU3QT2c4S+3QAeCCmPMZ5/Yh8eathrV+ECgQqjD /AgBIMeNNFKnA== Received: from mail.finder.org (unknown [192.155.80.58]) by greenhill.hpalace.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1BFB36FB; Mon, 21 Sep 2026 21:41:55 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2026 14:41:54 -0700 From: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available In-Reply-To: <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <eb3c17e5d0ff6fc70c38c583614f90f0@HIDDEN> X-Sender: jared@HIDDEN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, johan.myreen@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2026-09-21 08:53, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, jared@HIDDEN, >> luangruo@HIDDEN, >> rudalics@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2026 16:17:47 +0100 >> >> > Attached is a new diff which checks for empty-valued variables, too. >> >> Possibly this should use egetenv not getenv > > Do we really want the value to be affected by process-environment and > the frame parameters? If we don't, then getenv is exactly right. I don't think this should depend on Lisp state at all. The existing logic in HAVE_X_WINDOWS uses getenv and I expect this to do the same. A minor comment on the patch, is there a reason this isn't in the existing HAVE_PGTK block a few lines lower? -- MJF
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Sep 2026 15:54:07 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 21 11:54:06 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55986 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1x8gLF-0003v5-62 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Sep 2026 11:54:06 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40984) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1x8gL8-0003t7-Uv for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Sep 2026 11:54:01 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1x8gL2-0001Uq-68; Mon, 21 Sep 2026 11:53:52 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=ZwMYb2NUflffFm3RhBHZ+n9sqeKgzUubKwIjdEJGUz8=; b=Icsmqb6vbLLl Oz34V8moM+X0ZXWGgPZA5cFOIpwgy7Wkha9n+FZC/c/O5/5oGU5kNS4oTK/O9UsZNM4A1/iJ2Vvsj SeBPBCZQteYM/AtXoia6iDzjhRY/UcuZEfcowgno+p2q7eH7BRHzUOE+H829SaRH0pcCLbw6zfwLu DD+FPfr8OGkmOH0jL6nccx78vQB/K6RPj1nSo+7jKByBWAn8rahJB3W1na6Rh1ILmsPsnJ5nbLV6f jWsCbMnHwAj63PV6l1vxP8pECHBjIuoh/wufsLiThk6DYd0pGE5+fLMUFCEtZbTZmEOFo7s//NbY5 Ldt7us44j13742c4UGu6TA==; Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2026 18:53:45 +0300 Message-Id: <86fqz2eh2u.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN>, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Sean Whitton on Mon, 21 Sep 2026 16:17:47 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, jared@HIDDEN, johan.myreen@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, jared@HIDDEN, luangruo@HIDDEN, > rudalics@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2026 16:17:47 +0100 > > > Attached is a new diff which checks for empty-valued variables, too. > > Possibly this should use egetenv not getenv Do we really want the value to be affected by process-environment and the frame parameters? If we don't, then getenv is exactly right.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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Mon, 21 Sep 2026 11:17:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by athena.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4835F282AAD; Mon, 21 Sep 2026 16:17:47 +0100 (BST) From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> To: Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhuDAzm+K7hcMN7+g+68XOTPpm7FSpYmiZ6w57ri+1=jg@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2026 16:17:47 +0100 Message-ID: <87pky6fxb8.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, jared@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Johan Myr=C3=A9en [21/Sep 3:41pm +03] wrote: > On Mon, 21 Sept 2026 at 12:55, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> > wrote: > > >> > (This patch does not yet check for empty-valued display >> > variables, which I guess should be regarded as equivalent to missing >> > variables.) >> >> Yes. >> > > Attached is a new diff which checks for empty-valued variables, too. Possibly this should use egetenv not getenv, and is should probably use NULL not 0 to mean the env var is not set at all? --=20 Sean Whitton
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available To: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000224607065bfd946b" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, jared@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --000000000000224607065bfd946b Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000224606065bfd9469" --000000000000224606065bfd9469 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, 21 Sept 2026 at 12:55, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> wrote: > > (This patch does not yet check for empty-valued display > > variables, which I guess should be regarded as equivalent to missing > > variables.) > > Yes. > Attached is a new diff which checks for empty-valued variables, too. --000000000000224606065bfd9469 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"lt= r" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, 21 Sept 2026 at 12:55, Sean Whitton <<a = href=3D"mailto:spwhitton@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">spwhitton@spwhit= ton.name</a>> wrote:</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu= ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20= 4);padding-left:1ex">> (This patch does not yet check for empty-valued d= isplay<br> > variables, which I guess should be regarded as equivalent to missing<b= r> > variables.)<br> <br> Yes.<br></blockquote><div><br></div>Attached is a new diff which checks for= empty-valued variables, too.</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br></div></d= iv> </div> --000000000000224606065bfd9469-- --000000000000224607065bfd946b Content-Type: text/x-patch; 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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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Mon, 21 Sep 2026 05:55:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by athena.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 318872810FD; Mon, 21 Sep 2026 10:55:46 +0100 (BST) From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> To: Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhPfNDX1GVU6LBbTR1AYx-1BJD1=OQdreectk_n_F7DJw@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2026 10:55:46 +0100 Message-ID: <87fqz3gc7x.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, jared@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Johan Myr=C3=A9en [21/Sep 11:39am +03] wrote: > On Mon, 21 Sept 2026 at 08:27, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote: > >> Can we please play the devil's advocate and think about possible cases >> where the above logic would fail to produce the correct/expected >> results? >> > > Sure. Good idea. > > The condition for triggering the new behaviour is that the environment > variable XDG_SESSION_TYPE is set to "tty", and all the *DISPLAY variables > are unset. All other cases result in the current behavior. > > An interesting case is when the user does not use a display manager, but > logs in on the Linux console and starts a Wayland compositor manually from > the command line. This starts a graphical environment, so the expectation > is that Emacs would put a graphical frame on the screen. > > In the virtual console from which the compositor is started, the > XDG_SESSION_TYPE is set to "tty" (at least on my Arch PC), so a problemat= ic > case would be if the compositor forgets to change the XDG_SESSION_TYPE so > that it still has the value "tty". If the compositor additionally would n= ot > set any display variable, then the new logic would fail, and we would for= ce > Emacs to go into text mode. > > I have done some tests by logging in on the virtual console (with runlevel > set to "multi-user", i.e. no display server) and starting two different > compositors from the command line. > > 1. Sway > Sway changes the XDG_SESSION_TYPE to "wayland" and also sets the > WAYLAND_DISPLAY variable. > > 2. Weston > Weston does not change the XDG_SESSION_TYPE variable from its old value > "tty", but does set the WAYLAND_DISPLAY variable. This means Weston gets > one strike, but is not out. > > An interesting detail is that both compositors set WAYLAND_DISPLAY to > "wayland-1", which means the variable must be set, because the default > "wayland-0" does not work. According to Google, at least Weston does this > when started this way "to prevent naming conflicts when multiple Wayland > compositors or display sessions run simultaneously on the same machine." > The search results also mention that "wayland-0 is usually reserved for t= he > main desktop session or the first running display server." Though, > during my test, there was no main desktop session or other display server > running. > > These two compositors only represent a small fraction of the available > Wayland compositors, so more testing would be needed to assess the risk of > breaking things. Thanks. As a Wayland user who has done a certain amount of scripting with things like XDG_SESSION_TYPE, I think this analysis is sufficient. Let's check GNOME and KDE, but otherwise I think it would be a bad bug in the compositor for it not to set XDG_SESSION_TYPE. > (This patch does not yet check for empty-valued display > variables, which I guess should be regarded as equivalent to missing > variables.) Yes. --=20 Sean Whitton
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0000000000004eb56c065bfa30d9" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, jared@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --0000000000004eb56c065bfa30d9 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004eb56a065bfa30d7" --0000000000004eb56a065bfa30d7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, 21 Sept 2026 at 08:27, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote: > Can we please play the devil's advocate and think about possible cases > where the above logic would fail to produce the correct/expected > results? > Sure. Good idea. The condition for triggering the new behaviour is that the environment variable XDG_SESSION_TYPE is set to "tty", and all the *DISPLAY variables are unset. All other cases result in the current behavior. An interesting case is when the user does not use a display manager, but logs in on the Linux console and starts a Wayland compositor manually from the command line. This starts a graphical environment, so the expectation is that Emacs would put a graphical frame on the screen. In the virtual console from which the compositor is started, the XDG_SESSION_TYPE is set to "tty" (at least on my Arch PC), so a problematic case would be if the compositor forgets to change the XDG_SESSION_TYPE so that it still has the value "tty". If the compositor additionally would not set any display variable, then the new logic would fail, and we would force Emacs to go into text mode. I have done some tests by logging in on the virtual console (with runlevel set to "multi-user", i.e. no display server) and starting two different compositors from the command line. 1. Sway Sway changes the XDG_SESSION_TYPE to "wayland" and also sets the WAYLAND_DISPLAY variable. 2. Weston Weston does not change the XDG_SESSION_TYPE variable from its old value "tty", but does set the WAYLAND_DISPLAY variable. This means Weston gets one strike, but is not out. An interesting detail is that both compositors set WAYLAND_DISPLAY to "wayland-1", which means the variable must be set, because the default "wayland-0" does not work. According to Google, at least Weston does this when started this way "to prevent naming conflicts when multiple Wayland compositors or display sessions run simultaneously on the same machine." The search results also mention that "wayland-0 is usually reserved for the main desktop session or the first running display server." Though, during my test, there was no main desktop session or other display server running. These two compositors only represent a small fraction of the available Wayland compositors, so more testing would be needed to assess the risk of breaking things. I guess we should first have a precise implementation of the logic, > since the above is just an idea, and actual code was not posted yet? > I posted a preliminary patch in the bug report, but I noticed now that it has a bug. A new patch is attached to this message. The patch adds 20 lines to src/dispnew.c. (This patch does not yet check for empty-valued display variables, which I guess should be regarded as equivalent to missing variables.) --0000000000004eb56a065bfa30d7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quot= e"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, 21 Sept 2026 at 08:27, Eli= Zaretskii <<a href=3D"mailto:eliz@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">eliz@HIDDEN= rg</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi= n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex= ">Can we please play the devil's advocate and think about possible case= s<br> where the above logic would fail to produce the correct/expected<br> results?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Sure. Good idea.</div><div><br= ></div><div>The condition for triggering the new behaviour is that the envi= ronment variable XDG_SESSION_TYPE is set to "tty", and all the *D= ISPLAY variables are unset. All other cases result in the current behavior.= </div><div><br></div><div>An interesting case is when the user does not use= a display manager, but logs in on the Linux console and starts a Wayland c= ompositor manually from the command line. This starts a graphical environme= nt, so the expectation is that Emacs would put a graphical frame on the scr= een.</div><div><br></div><div>In the virtual console from which the composi= tor is started, the XDG_SESSION_TYPE is set to "tty" (at least on= my Arch PC), so a problematic case would be if the compositor forgets to c= hange the XDG_SESSION_TYPE so that it still has the value "tty". = If the compositor additionally would not set any display variable, then the= new logic would fail, and we would force Emacs to go into text mode.</div>= <div><br></div><div>I have done some tests by logging in on the virtual con= sole (with runlevel set to "multi-user", i.e. no display server) = and starting two different compositors from the command line.</div><div><br= ></div><div>1. Sway</div><div>Sway changes the XDG_SESSION_TYPE to "wa= yland" and also sets the WAYLAND_DISPLAY variable.</div><div><br></div= ><div>2. Weston</div><div>Weston does not change the XDG_SESSION_TYPE varia= ble from its old value "tty", but does set the WAYLAND_DISPLAY va= riable. This means Weston gets one strike, but is not out.</div><div><br></= div><div>An interesting detail is that both compositors set WAYLAND_DISPLAY= to "wayland-1", which means the variable must be set, because th= e default "wayland-0" does not work. According to Google, at leas= t Weston does this when started this way "to prevent naming conflicts = when multiple Wayland compositors or display sessions run simultaneously on= the same machine." The search results also mention that "wayland= -0 is usually reserved for the main desktop session or the first running di= splay server." Though, during=C2=A0my test, there was no main desktop = session or other display server running.</div><div><br></div><div>These two= compositors only represent a small fraction of the available Wayland compo= sitors, so more testing would be needed to assess the risk of breaking thin= gs.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0= px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> I guess we should first have a precise implementation of the logic,<br> since the above is just an idea, and actual code was not posted yet?<br></b= lockquote><div><br></div><div>I posted a preliminary patch in the bug repor= t, but I noticed now that it has a bug. A new patch is attached to this mes= sage. The patch adds 20 lines to src/dispnew.c. (This patch does not yet ch= eck for empty-valued display variables, which I guess should be regarded as= equivalent to missing variables.)</div><div></div><div><br></div><div></di= v></div></div> </div> </div> --0000000000004eb56a065bfa30d7-- --0000000000004eb56c065bfa30d9 Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset="US-ASCII"; name="pgtk-display-fix2.diff" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pgtk-display-fix2.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <f_muazhv5b0> X-Attachment-Id: f_muazhv5b0 ZGlmZiAtLWdpdCBhL3NyYy9kaXNwbmV3LmMgYi9zcmMvZGlzcG5ldy5jCmluZGV4IGRkNzk5YzYy ZDAyLi5kODYxNmRjMzAzYSAxMDA2NDQKLS0tIGEvc3JjL2Rpc3BuZXcuYworKysgYi9zcmMvZGlz cG5ldy5jCkBAIC03MjczLDYgKzcyNzMsMjYgQEAgaW5pdF9kaXNwbGF5X2ludGVyYWN0aXZlICh2 b2lkKQogICAgIH0KICNlbmRpZiAvKiBIQVZFX1hfV0lORE9XUyAqLwogCisjaWZkZWYgSEFWRV9Q R1RLCisgIC8qIElmIGJvdGggdGhlIERJUFNMQVkgYW5kIFdBWUxBTkRfRElTUExBWSBlbnZpcm9u bWVudAorICAgKiB2YXJpYWJsZXMgYXJlIHVuc2V0LCBhc3N1bWUgYSBncmFwaGljYWwgZGlzcGxh eQorICAgKiBpcyB1bmF2YWlsYWJsZS4KKyAgICovCisgIGlmICghaW5oaWJpdF93aW5kb3dfc3lz dGVtKQorICAgIHsKKyAgICAgIGNoYXIgKmRpc3BsYXkgPSBnZXRlbnYgKCJESVNQTEFZIik7Cisg ICAgICBjaGFyICp3bF9kaXNwbGF5ID0gZ2V0ZW52ICgiV0FZTEFORF9ESVNQTEFZIik7CisgICAg ICBjaGFyICpicm9hZHdheV9kaXNwbGF5ID0gZ2V0ZW52ICgiQlJPQURXQVlfRElTUExBWSIpOwor ICAgICAgY2hhciAqc2Vzc2lvbl90eXBlID0gZ2V0ZW52ICgiWERHX1NFU1NJT05fVFlQRSIpOwor CisgICAgICBpZiAoc3RyY21wIChzZXNzaW9uX3R5cGUsICJ0dHkiKSA9PSAwCisJICAmJiAhIGRp c3BsYXkgJiYgISB3bF9kaXNwbGF5ICYmICEgYnJvYWR3YXlfZGlzcGxheSkKKwl7CisJICBpbmhp Yml0X3dpbmRvd19zeXN0ZW0gPSAxOworCX0KKyAgICB9CisjZW5kaWYgLyogSEFWRV9QR1RLICov CisKICNpZmRlZiBIQVZFX0FORFJPSUQKICAgaWYgKCFpbmhpYml0X3dpbmRvd19zeXN0ZW0gJiYg YW5kcm9pZF9pbml0X2d1aSkKICAgICB7Cg== --0000000000004eb56c065bfa30d9--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Sep 2026 05:28:01 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 21 01:28:01 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37012 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1x8WZM-00044m-Vy for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Sep 2026 01:28:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59810) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1x8WZK-00043g-1K for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Sep 2026 01:27:58 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1x8WZD-00012x-3f; Mon, 21 Sep 2026 01:27:52 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=AcIzyjqU9vZ4IIMCeZ5HI28p3hPY3QtMxUG+3ZLlfi4=; b=SUApGxB5bLrIX6Ab719a AVPNINRiV6uqFcElSDMd7fkdjrttthZB8j8mWMo11ErCVrxrHISbVG3Mp3S7nlt/sATfI8HZWgvRr o5uAXe75rhsyizAX2S/qxrq0LXZYT/ve69TCcFCc8yB1aZxSLYB+m0JJMWbLgGlQhX7+X01y8wBnX h5rgKheAPeYCJVeRu8QSMxUMTgJup7aIL+ZquNAjNBAt0rJQDt567czPGSqtbgfnyaYFqa3rS6Cwj NfDKVi/NeHxayegesPcKHX1y85sT75c+Nc5zL1JvzPFqEjYeZxTXeARF2kx8zdfPgA9uC5G5EkdP4 tZH2boHLL7KnhQ==; Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2026 08:27:48 +0300 Message-Id: <86ecenfa23.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> (message from Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= on Sun, 20 Sep 2026 21:53:35 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, jared@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> > Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2026 21:53:35 +0300 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, > 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN > > Based on above, what I'd propose is we do logic something like the > following: If XDG_SESSION_TYPE is set to "tty" and DISPLAY, > WAYLAND_DISPLAY, and BROADWAY_DISPLAY are all unset, then fallback to > tty mode. Otherwise, keep the current behavior. This would fix the SSH > use case, keep paths like waypipe and X forwarding working, and keep the > current behavior on non-systemd platforms. > > As I have already said, I support this proposal. It is an improvement to the current situation, and it does not rule > out the idea of probing the display server. The variable check would catch the obvious case where a text > interface should be chosen (session type "tty" and no display variables set). If the check does not result in a > match, continue with the probe, which would have the benefit of avoiding the exit in gtk_init() if no display > server can be contacted. Can we please play the devil's advocate and think about possible cases where the above logic would fail to produce the correct/expected results? I guess we should first have a precise implementation of the logic, since the above is just an idea, and actual code was not posted yet?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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AKwUvBzT25CBcYJpCl9gR5DZcVLvu1ZBZbKNP4gWRxqiBOwgeg9bT/wHFjZDDKEvV8uFEAV3JziMpA==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AFuF++lhm11swpRdMvQKCiiNNgOjXO4LVrSqOJKXrA9pUGjludj4Luds L/LWunctUZ5Nb+y+nPaONcvW7Idj+cKBVBNJMZB325Dq7fxy/kCICHV7xluhok5UOYhZYA+e0bc G2mEqXd+Tr7eTjrwZeWl/jzDaaVVK79o= X-Gm-Gg: AYBFou2IgXbn9x3xEMAH0+ejbgCfchzUqhXqZH1VdDxf29sQzErceiqDxifaesiTJOs sT68ONPJEvSiJPDns7DDn1uS8OpUHWpTJtoXaYaXb+AVXEmnHX9JPkSKXEm421EuOE8ShiWzpLh WsTD8wmliHQEjj246kjWbHQpScLE5Pp/8h0zxujVYK0SDGc+4En+2d1kTl0LHAx0S7Ev6BMMItT YCDbfga1bPhRN58QsenuyobkBe83GHEg4ehhGOK1hCqwom9CEv86A69QUxWp6qqVe/iIsLEwxvg SWcnyMFLkq+duk6zuSq8ugkIm6HeszR1MWpcDqBxLpvDa9ykOS1svaXGLwOTnd+bl1JMH/xmMpW zz9EJmajrmA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:458d:b0:939:1864:343e with SMTP id af79cd13be357-93bf5731951mr705601685a.40.1789930428767; Sun, 20 Sep 2026 11:53:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Johan_Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2026 21:53:35 +0300 X-Gm-Features: AcwNN1UJ0bvRXhW05nKsNk1Zhha7CPGRgxsCMtmYTeFnLrvwjz5YHQ8BFpizXOU Message-ID: <CA+TD5hiTX63YoHZXUgoq-R9fGw_1Z1ETZ5fqbCOf21kgZW8O6Q@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available To: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000061239f065beea731" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --00000000000061239f065beea731 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Based on above, what I'd propose is we do logic something like the > following: If XDG_SESSION_TYPE is set to "tty" and DISPLAY, > WAYLAND_DISPLAY, and BROADWAY_DISPLAY are all unset, then fallback to > tty mode. Otherwise, keep the current behavior. This would fix the SSH > use case, keep paths like waypipe and X forwarding working, and keep the > current behavior on non-systemd platforms. > As I have already said, I support this proposal. It is an improvement to the current situation, and it does not rule out the idea of probing the display server. The variable check would catch the obvious case where a text interface should be chosen (session type "tty" and no display variables set). If the check does not result in a match, continue with the probe, which would have the benefit of avoiding the exit in gtk_init() if no display server can be contacted. Doing just the probing is unsatisfactory, since it fails to do what the user expects in at least the ssh case, and also locally if the user has switched to a text mode virtual console, but the graphical session is left running on another virtual console. In the latter case no display variables are set, but the default "wayland-0" socket can still be found, and Emacs is launched on the hidden GUI virtual console. --00000000000061239f065beea731 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquo= te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px = solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Based on above, what I'd propo= se is we do logic something like the <br> following: If XDG_SESSION_TYPE is set to "tty" and DISPLAY, <br> WAYLAND_DISPLAY, and BROADWAY_DISPLAY are all unset, then fallback to <br> tty mode.=C2=A0 Otherwise, keep the current behavior.=C2=A0 This would fix = the SSH <br> use case, keep paths like waypipe and X forwarding working, and keep the <b= r> current behavior on non-systemd platforms.<br></blockquote><div><br></div>A= s I have already said, I support this proposal. It is an improvement to the= current situation, and it does not rule out the idea of probing the displa= y server. The variable check would=C2=A0catch the obvious case where a text= interface should be chosen (session type "tty" and no display va= riables set). If the check does not result in a match, continue with the pr= obe, which would have the benefit of avoiding the exit in gtk_init() if no = display server can be contacted.</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote= _container"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">Doin= g just the probing is unsatisfactory, since it fails to do what the user ex= pects in at least the ssh case, and also locally if the user has switched t= o a text mode virtual console, but the graphical session is left running on= another virtual console. In the latter case no display variables are set, = but the default "wayland-0" socket can still be found, and Emacs = is launched on the hidden GUI virtual console.</div><div class=3D"gmail_quo= te gmail_quote_container"><br></div></div> --00000000000061239f065beea731--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Sep 2026 04:52:49 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 20 00:52:49 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51205 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1x89Xj-0008In-Nb for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Sep 2026 00:52:49 -0400 Received: from greenhill.hpalace.com ([192.155.80.58]:48412) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jared@HIDDEN>) id 1x89Xf-0008I5-RA for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Sep 2026 00:52:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=finder.org; s=2018; t=1789879962; bh=6v9NRrQ+ac7lcTNV0Fgt5KiBNnXSY2pb3kwAXDZJg5E=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=1C5u+kFyw1krR8L7Z4dF4Ox4Fmc2eoVH4k7xTA1qVBG4mFNqDvoN8uW8Cy/epu71M 2y4c3vVIXpMxf9PsyhG6Wi5TmZBAfY1yk2cFbOjihv7Z0WvrxljTJp49i3QyfjUNIC ceZm0eymmw5Kf3cwZHY4jiMoGxQZUV/PaUDJDetJz+Qw1zlZw5rqvt+QT1hWZusudN JuyfRB2F+SkF2v3syTacGLPf3LqM/Jh49edsdCBQXejnjGLrO2QBxOsM77RvAJjBT6 lM+qRfkZBUBPEzJNmIu4+Ahk95k7uKaHzH4qF0drthE1rztqbkdPr0X7JlvcZPyreJ gHO3URS8G6hug== Received: from mail.finder.org (unknown [192.155.80.58]) by greenhill.hpalace.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BC548675; Sun, 20 Sep 2026 04:52:42 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2026 21:52:42 -0700 From: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available In-Reply-To: <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <4dd0a587b70c0fe92cb8355b6be2f52b@HIDDEN> X-Sender: jared@HIDDEN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, =?UTF-8?Q?Johan_Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2026-09-19 07:37, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> >> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2026 17:09:00 +0300 >> Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, >> jared@HIDDEN, spwhitton@HIDDEN >> >> There are no other variables, at least not used by Gtk/Gdk. >> >> But having read up on Wayland, I must admit I was wrong about one bit. >> Although I have always seen the >> WAYLAND_DISPLAY variable set, the base case is that the Wayland >> display name is "wayland-0". This can be >> overridden using the WAYLAND_DISPLAY variable. I said "the >> specification expects the WAYLAND_DISPLAY >> environment variable to be set", but this is clearly not true, and >> there may be systems that don't set the variable. >> >> So you remember correctly that this was the reason Emacs can't decide >> to use a tty frame if there is no >> WAYLAND_DISPLAY. >> >> Jared's idea to use the absence of WAYLAND_DISPLAY iff >> XDG_SESSION_TYPE == tty could still work, >> though. If there is a XDG_SESSION_TYPE, and its value is "tty", then >> Emacs could deduce we are in a text-only >> environment. On the other hand, this decision should be taken only if >> both WAYLAND_DISPLAY and DISPLAY >> are not set, because in an ssh shell the session type is "tty", but we >> might still want to use X forwarding or >> Waypipe. > > So ultimately, the only reasonable way is to try to connect, and fall > back in case of failure, if we can pull that trick. But how do we do > that without risking inadvertently opening the display on the wrong > machine (remote instead of local or vice versa)? I think XDG_SESSION_TYPE, if set, is the best signal we have. Systemd based systems will set XDG_SESSION_TYPE to tty for Linux virtual console or ssh sessions, and to x11 or wayland for graphical sessions. Non systemd based systems probably don't set it, though I don't have such a system around to test it. Also, from an earlier email: > Can we also collect information about other environment variables that > act like WAYLAND_DISPLAY, but are not called that? I think that was > the reason against using that variable: IOW, we didn't want to have a > case where some other variable is used, and Emacs mistakenly decides > to show the TTY frame because there's no WAYLAND_DISPLAY. But that > means there must exist other variables which play that role on the > various compositors. My understanding is that there are a few such environment variables that are relevant to GTK: * GDK_BACKEND -- this forces what backends are attempted and supported * DISPLAY -- the X11 one * WAYLAND_DISPLAY -- the wayland one * BROADWAY_DISPLAY -- the broadway (website embedding) one MacOS, Win32, and Android do not have relevant environment variables. This is an exhaustive list of all the backends GTK has currently. Based on above, what I'd propose is we do logic something like the following: If XDG_SESSION_TYPE is set to "tty" and DISPLAY, WAYLAND_DISPLAY, and BROADWAY_DISPLAY are all unset, then fallback to tty mode. Otherwise, keep the current behavior. This would fix the SSH use case, keep paths like waypipe and X forwarding working, and keep the current behavior on non-systemd platforms. -- MJF
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Sep 2026 14:37:18 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 19 10:37:18 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42995 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1x7wBp-0006eq-BE for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2026 10:37:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36782) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1x7wBm-0006eI-DG for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2026 10:37:15 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1x7wBf-00028U-OW; Sat, 19 Sep 2026 10:37:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=oNSRkynaVJTpcStcSqY62ERPNPKX1iYg+lPVGhGb9jE=; b=gTn3uxL1E2fJeB7qwtd9 0O9teXj6CT4dNMwd8c0yGw3YtzuPtc1Pd31IeKr15li/j0JN8Yoih90p39OxJSDTPdaesct6hN6zQ +jiLaXVnIDPeaIkB/E34Lytxe+p2elmRGQYkpGDXRjzoEpnzgW0ufXByq90dTHOOt2p1rkl/O3hE7 VaYRAFJ3lFG8aLs8uG7w5OkgiY3KhWfO+UywTUzjvINNzwGscIpKnqLM0vtVjKS0n9crTeyii96mh j1HBxdKnKAAVrT5nrvoyKSMn3vZU9PAYPidxoQw367Ob08b4bsN+KJrRslQBH1F57m4Bdz+aV+ApB dq047off6z6lpg==; Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2026 17:37:02 +0300 Message-Id: <86pky9gve9.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> (message from Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= on Sat, 19 Sep 2026 17:09:00 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hgbF2qciWXQy7iT-hjqbgFS=BP92sLWfw7oVrvBwn8Upg@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, jared@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> > Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2026 17:09:00 +0300 > Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, > jared@HIDDEN, spwhitton@HIDDEN > > There are no other variables, at least not used by Gtk/Gdk. > > But having read up on Wayland, I must admit I was wrong about one bit. Although I have always seen the > WAYLAND_DISPLAY variable set, the base case is that the Wayland display name is "wayland-0". This can be > overridden using the WAYLAND_DISPLAY variable. I said "the specification expects the WAYLAND_DISPLAY > environment variable to be set", but this is clearly not true, and there may be systems that don't set the variable. > > So you remember correctly that this was the reason Emacs can't decide to use a tty frame if there is no > WAYLAND_DISPLAY. > > Jared's idea to use the absence of WAYLAND_DISPLAY iff XDG_SESSION_TYPE == tty could still work, > though. If there is a XDG_SESSION_TYPE, and its value is "tty", then Emacs could deduce we are in a text-only > environment. On the other hand, this decision should be taken only if both WAYLAND_DISPLAY and DISPLAY > are not set, because in an ssh shell the session type is "tty", but we might still want to use X forwarding or > Waypipe. So ultimately, the only reasonable way is to try to connect, and fall back in case of failure, if we can pull that trick. But how do we do that without risking inadvertently opening the display on the wrong machine (remote instead of local or vice versa)?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b6a0ce065bd68fbc" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, jared@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --000000000000b6a0ce065bd68fbc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, 19 Sept 2026 at 15:18, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote: > Can we also collect information about other environment variables that > act like WAYLAND_DISPLAY, but are not called that? I think that was > the reason against using that variable: IOW, we didn't want to have a > case where some other variable is used, and Emacs mistakenly decides > to show the TTY frame because there's no WAYLAND_DISPLAY. But that > means there must exist other variables which play that role on the > various compositors. > There are no other variables, at least not used by Gtk/Gdk. But having read up on Wayland, I must admit I was wrong about one bit. Although I have always seen the WAYLAND_DISPLAY variable set, the base case is that the Wayland display name is "wayland-0". This can be overridden using the WAYLAND_DISPLAY variable. I said "the specification expects the WAYLAND_DISPLAY environment variable to be set", but this is clearly not true, and there may be systems that don't set the variable. So you remember correctly that this was the reason Emacs can't decide to use a tty frame if there is no WAYLAND_DISPLAY. Jared's idea to use the absence of WAYLAND_DISPLAY iff XDG_SESSION_TYPE == tty could still work, though. If there is a XDG_SESSION_TYPE, and its value is "tty", then Emacs could deduce we are in a text-only environment. On the other hand, this decision should be taken only if both WAYLAND_DISPLAY and DISPLAY are not set, because in an ssh shell the session type is "tty", but we might still want to use X forwarding or Waypipe. I will now go sit in the corner and keep my mouth shut. Johan --000000000000b6a0ce065bd68fbc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><= /div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"= gmail_attr">On Sat, 19 Sept 2026 at 15:18, Eli Zaretskii <<a href=3D"mai= lto:eliz@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">eliz@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:</div><div>= =C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0= .8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> Can we also collect information about other environment variables that<br> act like WAYLAND_DISPLAY, but are not called that?=C2=A0 I think that was<b= r> the reason against using that variable: IOW, we didn't want to have a<b= r> case where some other variable is used, and Emacs mistakenly decides<br> to show the TTY frame because there's no WAYLAND_DISPLAY.=C2=A0 But tha= t<br> means there must exist other variables which play that role on the<br> various compositors.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>There are no other= variables, at least not used by Gtk/Gdk.</div><div><br></div><div>But havi= ng read up on Wayland, I must admit I was wrong about one bit. Although I h= ave always seen the WAYLAND_DISPLAY variable set, the base case is that the= Wayland display name is "wayland-0". This can be overridden usin= g the WAYLAND_DISPLAY variable. I said "the specification=C2=A0expects= the WAYLAND_DISPLAY environment variable to be set", but this is clea= rly not true, and there may be systems that don't set the variable.</di= v><div><br></div>So you remember correctly that this was the reason Emacs c= an't decide to use a tty frame if there is no WAYLAND_DISPLAY.</div><di= v class=3D"gmail_quote"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">Jared's id= ea to use the absence of WAYLAND_DISPLAY iff XDG_SESSION_TYPE =3D=3D tty co= uld still work, though. If there is a XDG_SESSION_TYPE, and its value is &q= uot;tty", then Emacs could deduce we are in a text-only environment. O= n the other hand, this decision should be taken only if both WAYLAND_DISPLA= Y and DISPLAY are not set, because in an ssh shell the session type is &quo= t;tty", but we might still want to use X forwarding or Waypipe.</div><= div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">I will now g= o sit in the corner and keep my mouth shut.</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"= >Johan</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br></div></div> </div> </div> --000000000000b6a0ce065bd68fbc--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Sep 2026 12:19:03 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 19 08:19:03 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47458 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1x7u22-0007ST-1N for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2026 08:19:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36048) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1x7u1z-0007Rc-J3 for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2026 08:19:00 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1x7u1s-00017U-VN; Sat, 19 Sep 2026 08:18:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=5eXik8wJNK3Xha11p8ir26gH3kgtGZ/IHBgtupJX4MU=; b=dV6OyTYSQP5Jk3IjOX5Q ukruURMiDWep0erQPEmQ1+oQrYbQwr41AlrA6b2dktT2J/x8EQriddRBFZRUcKy67mnczHYxauE/Y eG3lydU5MPaPwyVIL0Y74Wm8MJVorE2bwWyYC4TzMQGrABB+/nP3UXK6AvuCmRLHc+U9PwW0EQRiu aOCOliDB/L7V0OZwfdS37+POJ50uQaUqT0zDEbusUHJsr4cGcggAENX+ifMvFvgtlTl6eydFZoy6d 6vZxmSEeyV+7GjUVu3/EBCQ+8xJSBz39LPtqle5tXYnyZNLroXkAwamzhW7SC8fnod2RAJgypAvZ2 1W36mluYXGYmiQ==; Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2026 15:18:49 +0300 Message-Id: <86se35h1sm.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> (message from Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= on Sat, 19 Sep 2026 14:06:47 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hhtj06WngKf9uWsGFUpBxOARWO++nstj3wdoXUZvcOdQg@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, jared@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> > Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2026 14:06:47 +0300 > Cc: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, > Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> > > Having slept on this, here's my fresh thought on this. > > All the bugs mentioned (72303, 63555, 65886, and this bug) are related to the fact that Emacs opens a GUI > frame or bails out when trying to do so, when the user did not want a GUI frame. All these problems stem from > that GTK too eagerly is trying to open a GUI frame, ultimately trying the fallback socket "wayland-0". > > Because of the wayland-0 fallback, there is no way to use the WAYLAND_DISPLAY variable to convey the > information that the user does not want to use a GUI frame, by deleting the variable. The resistance to get rid > of the wayland-0 fallback rests on that it is an established mechanism, and backward compatibility should be > preserved. However, I think the fallback is a mistake, and that in 99% of the cases it is applied it is not doing > what the user wanted it to do. That is, in most cases it tries to open a connection to a display server that is not > there, or the user expects a text interface instead. Since the specification expects the WAYLAND_DISPLAY > environment variable to be set, I don't think very many rely on the fallback behaviour. > > I noted that there was a discussion on the freedesktop.org wayland-devel mailing list about the wayland-0 > default, and it was considered harmful enough for somebody to post a patch to get rid of it: > https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/wayland-devel/2015-May/022203.html However, this patch was later > reverted. > > This problem is deeper than just failing to fall back to a text interface. Consider using plain ssh (no X forwarding > or Waypipe) to login to a remote host, and starting Emacs on the command line. Whoops, the Emacs frame may > end up being shown on the remote host's display. This happens even if X forwarding is used. When PGTK > Emacs is started on the command line in the ssh shell, with the expectation of it being displayed on the local > host's screen (because of the X forwarding), what happens is that the Emacs frame is displayed as a Wayland > app on the remote host's screen! I think this could easily be seen as a security issue. > > I don't think there is an ideal solution to this problem, so my proposal is a compromise where the wayland-0 > fallback is effectively removed, by mandating the use of the WAYLAND_DISPLAY and DISPLAY variables by > falling back to text mode if both of them are missing. This is what my patch implements. The check for the > variables could also be gated behind a check for XDG_SESSION_TYPE=="tty", as proposed by Jared Finder. Can we also collect information about other environment variables that act like WAYLAND_DISPLAY, but are not called that? I think that was the reason against using that variable: IOW, we didn't want to have a case where some other variable is used, and Emacs mistakenly decides to show the TTY frame because there's no WAYLAND_DISPLAY. But that means there must exist other variables which play that role on the various compositors. Or what am I missing?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f991eb065bd403a2" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>, Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --000000000000f991eb065bd403a2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Having slept on this, here's my fresh thought on this. All the bugs mentioned (72303, 63555, 65886, and this bug) are related to the fact that Emacs opens a GUI frame or bails out when trying to do so, when the user* did not *want a GUI frame. All these problems stem from that GTK too eagerly is trying to open a GUI frame, ultimately trying the fallback socket "wayland-0". Because of the wayland-0 fallback, there is no way to use the WAYLAND_DISPLAY variable to convey the information that the user does not want to use a GUI frame, by deleting the variable. The resistance to get rid of the wayland-0 fallback rests on that it is an established mechanism, and backward compatibility should be preserved. However, I think the fallback is a mistake, and that in 99% of the cases it is applied it is not doing what the user wanted it to do. That is, in most cases it tries to open a connection to a display server that is not there, or the user expects a text interface instead. Since the specification expects the WAYLAND_DISPLAY environment variable to be set, I don't think very many rely on the fallback behaviour. I noted that there was a discussion on the freedesktop.org wayland-devel mailing list about the wayland-0 default, and it was considered harmful enough for somebody to post a patch to get rid of it: https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/wayland-devel/2015-May/022203.html However, this patch was later reverted. This problem is deeper than just failing to fall back to a text interface. Consider using plain ssh (no X forwarding or Waypipe) to login to a remote host, and starting Emacs on the command line. Whoops, the Emacs frame may end up being shown on the remote host's display. This happens even if X forwarding is used. When PGTK Emacs is started on the command line in the ssh shell, with the expectation of it being displayed on the local host's screen (because of the X forwarding), what happens is that the Emacs frame is displayed as a Wayland app on the remote host's screen! I think this could easily be seen as a security issue. I don't think there is an ideal solution to this problem, so my proposal is a compromise where the wayland-0 fallback is effectively removed, by mandating the use of the WAYLAND_DISPLAY and DISPLAY variables by falling back to text mode if both of them are missing. This is what my patch implements. The check for the variables could also be gated behind a check for XDG_SESSION_TYPE=="tty", as proposed by Jared Finder. --000000000000f991eb065bd403a2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Having slept on this, here's my = fresh thought on this.</div><div><br></div><div>All the bugs mentioned (723= 03,=C2=A063555,=C2=A065886, and this bug) are related to the fact that Emac= s opens a GUI frame or bails out when trying to do so, when the user<b> did= not </b>want a GUI frame. All these problems stem from that GTK too eagerl= y is trying to open a GUI frame, ultimately trying the fallback socket &quo= t;wayland-0".</div><div><br></div><div>Because of the wayland-0 fallba= ck, there is no way to use the WAYLAND_DISPLAY variable to convey the infor= mation that the user does not want to use a GUI frame, by deleting the vari= able. The resistance to get rid of the wayland-0 fallback rests on that it = is an established mechanism, and backward compatibility should=C2=A0be pres= erved. However, I think the fallback is a mistake, and that in 99% of the c= ases it is applied it is not doing what the user wanted it to do. That is, = in most cases it tries to open a connection to a display server that is not= there, or the user expects a text interface instead. Since the specificati= on expects the WAYLAND_DISPLAY environment variable to be set, I don't = think very many rely on the fallback behaviour.</div><div><br></div><div>I = noted that there was a discussion on the <a href=3D"http://freedesktop.org"= target=3D"_blank">freedesktop.org</a> wayland-devel mailing list about the= wayland-0 default, and it was considered harmful enough for somebody to po= st a patch to get rid of it:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://lists.freedesktop.org/= archives/wayland-devel/2015-May/022203.html">https://lists.freedesktop.org/= archives/wayland-devel/2015-May/022203.html</a> However, this patch was lat= er reverted.</div><div><br></div><div>This problem is deeper than just fail= ing to fall back to a text interface. Consider using plain ssh (no X forwar= ding or Waypipe) to login to a remote host, and starting Emacs on the comma= nd line. Whoops, the Emacs frame may end up being shown on the remote host&= #39;s display. This happens even if X forwarding is used. When PGTK Emacs i= s started on the command line in the ssh shell, with the expectation of it = being displayed on the local host's screen (because of the X forwarding= ), what happens is that the Emacs frame is displayed as a Wayland app on th= e remote host's screen! I think this could easily=C2=A0be seen as a sec= urity issue.</div><div><br></div><div>I don't think there is an ideal s= olution to this problem, so my proposal is a compromise where the wayland-0= fallback is effectively removed, by mandating the use of the WAYLAND_DISPL= AY and DISPLAY variables by falling back to text mode if both of them are m= issing. This is what my patch implements. The check for the variables could= also be gated behind a check for XDG_SESSION_TYPE=3D=3D"tty", as= proposed by Jared Finder.</div><div><br></div><div></div></div> </div> --000000000000f991eb065bd403a2--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009bde5c065bd2930f" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --0000000000009bde5c065bd2930f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, 19 Sept 2026 at 08:11, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote: > > An > > even more conservative heuristic would be something like "fallback to > > tty only if XDG_SESSION_TYPE is tty and no *_DISPLAY variable is set". > > This would properly catch my ssh'ing use case as well as the waypipe use > > case. > > How is this better than an explicit -nw, may I ask? Not every system > has XDG_SESSION_TYPE defined. > It is a conservative heuristic: it helps the users who have XDG_SESSION_TYPE defined, and makes no difference for those who don't have it defined. XDG_SESSION_TYPE is nearly ubiquitous on modern Linux systems. --0000000000009bde5c065bd2930f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"lt= r" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, 19 Sept 2026 at 08:11, Eli Zaretskii <<a= href=3D"mailto:eliz@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">eliz@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:= <br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8= ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">> An <br> > even more conservative heuristic would be something like "fallbac= k to <br> > tty only if XDG_SESSION_TYPE is tty and no *_DISPLAY variable is set&q= uot;.=C2=A0 <br> > This would properly catch my ssh'ing use case as well as the waypi= pe use <br> > case.<br> <br> How is this better than an explicit -nw, may I ask?=C2=A0 Not every system<= br> has XDG_SESSION_TYPE defined.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It is a c= onservative heuristic: it helps the users who have XDG_SESSION_TYPE defined= , and makes no difference for those who don't have it defined. XDG_SESS= ION_TYPE is nearly ubiquitous on modern Linux systems.</div><div><br></div>= </div></div> </div> --0000000000009bde5c065bd2930f--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Sep 2026 05:11:56 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 19 01:11:56 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42314 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1x7nMg-0006zM-Pn for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2026 01:11:56 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59792) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1x7nMd-0006y7-4q for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2026 01:11:52 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1x7nMX-0005fv-4V; Sat, 19 Sep 2026 01:11:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=THSpUtX2yl3hNVvB5qAY/cxTC/tahpNKsUIMaktnP4Q=; b=o+JEewDA+jSVxn+vH0R9 qat6nYTZ6UXyLz466NCrPJOw3iR65Xq0nodB+qved7o7sKtk/56LIRSeM7j4bGsASm3NcCuquZd2Z RlLlVzkaUup/luEGFY7ZJ5o+iOBtql36ujUMtAvR0azqcjD9HhvsbSgzGyjEesBUAJhl/8YWvjNZ5 YxIA0cIB8MPr6Nn9zstOtjpTgrnho5YdkyYc4O5aoz1Aak135muallI9jFRmpF134JF447F0fvgpr oWOZEJTNJquRjVbpfuhiZ7FXeB9vfotQLZAHYRvkdElho9fmOCKOtwVuiZMds0zDTJmZM5uKtr0HK pq94r7JPjGXhtw==; Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2026 08:11:42 +0300 Message-Id: <86zexdj04x.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <41f68fb19c311d0889823ce90a555211@HIDDEN> (message from Jared Finder on Fri, 18 Sep 2026 21:07:21 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <868q4yjzej.fsf@HIDDEN> <41f68fb19c311d0889823ce90a555211@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, johan.myreen@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2026 21:07:21 -0700 > From: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> > Cc: Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN>, > luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, > spwhitton@HIDDEN > > On 2026-09-18 09:29, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> From: Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> > >> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2026 18:52:34 +0300 > >> Cc: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>, > >> 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, > >> Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>, Sean Whitton > >> <spwhitton@HIDDEN> > >> > >> and exit. This is a byproduct of GTK's not providing any means of > >> probing for a display connection before committing to opening one, > >> and > >> cannot be addressed by Emacs. Rather, users must expressly request > >> a > >> text mode session: > >> > >> Ok, the patch was made on the assumption that the WAYLAND_DISPLAY is > >> universal. Waypipe at least sets the > >> variable on the server side. It is known that at least GTK apps don't > >> need the variable, but I was not aware that > >> some software was relying on this behaviour. Not using the > >> WAYLAND_DISPLAY variable means a default value > >> of "wayland-0" is used, which is not always right, as can be seen in > >> bug 53969. > >> > >> OK, If we can't use that heuristic, I think we can do what the GTK/X > >> port does: probe if a display server > >> answers. This should be possible by changing the call to gtk_init to > >> gtk_init_check, which does not call exit, but > >> returns false if the connection fails. If the function returns false, > >> we can fall back to text mode. > > > > I think last time this was suggested, the conclusion was that the > > initialization happens too late for the fallback to betaken. But if > > you find a way of doing that, I think it will be acceptable. > > > > Thanks. > > Calling gtk_init_check() won't work or my use case, which is ssh'ing > into a machine that I can also locally log into. When ssh'd in, DISPLAY > and WAYLAND_DISPLAY are unset unless I use X forwarding or waypipe. An > even more conservative heuristic would be something like "fallback to > tty only if XDG_SESSION_TYPE is tty and no *_DISPLAY variable is set". > This would properly catch my ssh'ing use case as well as the waypipe use > case. How is this better than an explicit -nw, may I ask? Not every system has XDG_SESSION_TYPE defined.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Sep 2026 04:07:41 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 19 00:07:40 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51215 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1x7mMR-0004Vv-2v for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2026 00:07:40 -0400 Received: from greenhill.hpalace.com ([192.155.80.58]:43888) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jared@HIDDEN>) id 1x7mME-0004SM-ON for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2026 00:07:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=finder.org; s=2018; t=1789790841; bh=uqBYhbbwlNQ6N4sME2bbRavAT+zU9qkt8eGtvTkj2jQ=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=Hwz8TWOrw58SK/LAzVx1yWpx4PGQOErdCwipLqMMNygNCvkIkj7ecJLmRdBkN8H+4 6BTrFS8MdZlXv1O2iIsJD58pSSL0b0TLZqP/QP6ZWelnc7ySQfnNozL6HelB1PYfKv Tzoipafwp76YIiwe/Ya4eosyYNz7AZerOgonETQ+8Jhwb/Gebnd/kUb6CY6fPNWVLk W1ihJBnMEA4PbEPrwPObUYQIMfQwSlvt4+DLmjOrW6mrl5rYebtUob3rBdAc4fh/lu FU63bd/DwZtBF/uLWcb5oci6+kU/MCkerxoIivdTIngipejwmTFEf6Qt0HIEnoqSSY s5NQgFhs8XMBw== Received: from mail.finder.org (unknown [192.155.80.58]) by greenhill.hpalace.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3F879654; Sat, 19 Sep 2026 04:07:21 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2026 21:07:21 -0700 From: Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available In-Reply-To: <868q4yjzej.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> <868q4yjzej.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <41f68fb19c311d0889823ce90a555211@HIDDEN> X-Sender: jared@HIDDEN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, =?UTF-8?Q?Johan_Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2026-09-18 09:29, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> >> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2026 18:52:34 +0300 >> Cc: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>, >> 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, >> Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>, Sean Whitton >> <spwhitton@HIDDEN> >> >> and exit. This is a byproduct of GTK's not providing any means of >> probing for a display connection before committing to opening one, >> and >> cannot be addressed by Emacs. Rather, users must expressly request >> a >> text mode session: >> >> Ok, the patch was made on the assumption that the WAYLAND_DISPLAY is >> universal. Waypipe at least sets the >> variable on the server side. It is known that at least GTK apps don't >> need the variable, but I was not aware that >> some software was relying on this behaviour. Not using the >> WAYLAND_DISPLAY variable means a default value >> of "wayland-0" is used, which is not always right, as can be seen in >> bug 53969. >> >> OK, If we can't use that heuristic, I think we can do what the GTK/X >> port does: probe if a display server >> answers. This should be possible by changing the call to gtk_init to >> gtk_init_check, which does not call exit, but >> returns false if the connection fails. If the function returns false, >> we can fall back to text mode. > > I think last time this was suggested, the conclusion was that the > initialization happens too late for the fallback to betaken. But if > you find a way of doing that, I think it will be acceptable. > > Thanks. Calling gtk_init_check() won't work or my use case, which is ssh'ing into a machine that I can also locally log into. When ssh'd in, DISPLAY and WAYLAND_DISPLAY are unset unless I use X forwarding or waypipe. An even more conservative heuristic would be something like "fallback to tty only if XDG_SESSION_TYPE is tty and no *_DISPLAY variable is set". This would properly catch my ssh'ing use case as well as the waypipe use case. -- MJF
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Sep 2026 16:30:11 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 18 12:30:11 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58831 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1x7bTX-0003il-7S for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Sep 2026 12:30:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34058) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1x7bTT-0003eb-E1 for 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Sep 2026 12:30:09 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1x7bTN-0001N8-Bo; Fri, 18 Sep 2026 12:30:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=1TO7E29uhpRZzyWkw6tZFhmWnYByOr6OUoGVPnLRYJk=; b=Ggp3ThuCyFNFXwg4FnDR T0PUDawXzrb312/qzZEgfo6MvXEfVhzguXn5tolEesfqF1nlhM37Weg89TcS70CNMw/E7XqJvXwp/ sOpj7lgeAO/MjimAuQBxgxDGadHUdIxF8xhiS1n4S4n2XDS20GoWR+4LBPJZ8nLje6LXzUnL8W2R4 OICDYh6mzWplk0BhXwv3muSjTcnuV68gQ+l1NkGCLrxu0GqX+R7iTgO6vAw9KcSOmY7god6m5fAdB JE5hlG+0VdxiwKwr/zh5zWJVfBUTw6mRX/QPQxY4u9lNL2DqEEbhfBpHDf6oV1K+01nOAX5/LPk9U cPjYvMWymNicuQ==; Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2026 19:29:56 +0300 Message-Id: <868q4yjzej.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> (message from Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= on Fri, 18 Sep 2026 18:52:34 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> <86bj9uk2l2.fsf@HIDDEN> <CA+TD5hj6zaeh8kTQqjqq45SL45KampEo_rEpDfB=W9wRv=aatA@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, rudalics@HIDDEN, jared@HIDDEN, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, spwhitton@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> > Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2026 18:52:34 +0300 > Cc: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, > Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> > > and exit. This is a byproduct of GTK's not providing any means of > probing for a display connection before committing to opening one, and > cannot be addressed by Emacs. Rather, users must expressly request a > text mode session: > > Ok, the patch was made on the assumption that the WAYLAND_DISPLAY is universal. Waypipe at least sets the > variable on the server side. It is known that at least GTK apps don't need the variable, but I was not aware that > some software was relying on this behaviour. Not using the WAYLAND_DISPLAY variable means a default value > of "wayland-0" is used, which is not always right, as can be seen in bug 53969. > > OK, If we can't use that heuristic, I think we can do what the GTK/X port does: probe if a display server > answers. This should be possible by changing the call to gtk_init to gtk_init_check, which does not call exit, but > returns false if the connection fails. If the function returns false, we can fall back to text mode. I think last time this was suggested, the conclusion was that the initialization happens too late for the fallback to betaken. But if you find a way of doing that, I think it will be acceptable. Thanks.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000320a6b065bc3e436" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 Cc: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>, Jared Finder <jared@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --000000000000320a6b065bc3e436 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > and exit. This is a byproduct of GTK's not providing any means of > probing for a display connection before committing to opening one, and > cannot be addressed by Emacs. Rather, users must expressly request a > text mode session: > Ok, the patch was made on the assumption that the WAYLAND_DISPLAY is universal. Waypipe at least sets the variable on the server side. It is known that at least GTK apps don't need the variable, but I was not aware that some software was relying on this behaviour. Not using the WAYLAND_DISPLAY variable means a default value of "wayland-0" is used, which is not always right, as can be seen in bug 53969. OK, If we can't use that heuristic, I think we can do what the GTK/X port does: probe if a display server answers. This should be possible by changing the call to gtk_init to gtk_init_check, which does not call exit, but returns false if the connection fails. If the function returns false, we can fall back to text mode. --000000000000320a6b065bc3e436 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote cl= ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid= rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> =C2=A0 and exit.=C2=A0 This is a byproduct of GTK's not providing any m= eans of<br> =C2=A0 probing for a display connection before committing to opening one, a= nd<br> =C2=A0 cannot be addressed by Emacs.=C2=A0 Rather, users must expressly req= uest a<br> =C2=A0 text mode session:<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Ok, the patch= was made on the assumption that the WAYLAND_DISPLAY is universal. Waypipe = at least sets the variable on the server side. It is known that at least GT= K apps don't need the variable, but I was not aware that some software = was relying on this behaviour. Not using the WAYLAND_DISPLAY variable means= a default value of "wayland-0" is used, which is not always righ= t, as can be seen in bug 53969.</div><div><br></div><div>OK, If we can'= t use that heuristic, I think we can do what the GTK/X port does: probe if = a display server answers. This should be possible by changing the call to g= tk_init to gtk_init_check, which does not call exit, but returns false if t= he connection fails. If the function returns false, we can fall back to tex= t mode.</div><div><br></div></div></div> </div> --000000000000320a6b065bc3e436--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN>, Po Lu
<luangruo@HIDDEN>, martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN>
(message from Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= on Fri, 18 Sep 2026 18:03:49
+0300)
Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50;
PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not
available
References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN>
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> From: Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN>
> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2026 18:03:49 +0300
>
> The PGTK build of Emacs does not fall back to text mode when a display server is
> not available; instead it exits with the following warning:
>
> (emacs:657): Gtk-WARNING **: 10:01:36.730: cannot open display:
>
> To reproduce the bug, switch to a non-GUI environment. For example,
> on a Linux host with systemd, switch to a non-graphics "runlevel"
>
> systemctl isolate multi-user.target
>
> Log in on the (text mode) console and start emacs (without the -nw option).
This is known, and our original announcement of the PGTK build
mentions that (see etc/NEWS.29).
> The bug is caused by the call to gtk_init() in src/pgtkterm.c. The gtk_init function
> calls gtk_init_check, which tries to open a connection to open a display. When this
> fails, gtk_init_check returns false to get_init, which prints a warning and does an exit(1).
>
> The GTK/X build also calls gtk_init, but only if a connection to the X server succeeds
> before calling gtk_init. The check is done using the function x_display_ok in src/xterm.c.
> If the check fails, gtk_init is not called at all. The check is possible because the GTK/X port
> can talk directly to the X server, bypassing GTK.
>
> After some discussion on emacs-devel Jared Finder and I came to the conclusion
> that a good solution would be to unconditionally fall back to text mode if both the
> DISPLAY and WAYLAND_DISPLAY are unset. See:
>
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2026-09/msg00220.html
>
> I have attached a patch implementing Jared's idea.
Wasn't this solution already considered, and we for some reason
decided not to take it? We have this in PROBLEMS:
** Whether a display server is available cannot be automatically detected.
When started with no arguments from a text terminal and in an
environment where no display server is specified, Emacs will print:
$ emacs
(emacs:3988): Gtk-WARNING **: 19:19:10.887: cannot open display:
and exit. This is a byproduct of GTK's not providing any means of
probing for a display connection before committing to opening one, and
cannot be addressed by Emacs. Rather, users must expressly request a
text mode session:
$ emacs -nw
[...]
And a bit of Git forensics points to bug#72303, and through that to
bug#63555 and bug#65886. It seems the problem is that WAYLAND_DISPLAY
is not universally used or something? Anyway, please be sure to read
these past discussions, so as not to discover what we already
discovered and discussed there.
Po Lu and Martin, any insights or comments?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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Fri, 18 Sep 2026 11:10:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by athena.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CF9D5282AD9; Fri, 18 Sep 2026 16:10:00 +0100 (BST) From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> To: Johan =?utf-8?Q?Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN>, 81891 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#81891: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available In-Reply-To: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> References: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2026 16:10:00 +0100 Message-ID: <87cxuaiojb.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81891 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Johan Myr=C3=A9en [18/Sep 6:03pm +03] wrote: > The PGTK build of Emacs does not fall back to text mode when a display > server is > not available; instead it exits with the following warning: > > (emacs:657): Gtk-WARNING **: 10:01:36.730: cannot open display: > > To reproduce the bug, switch to a non-GUI environment. For example, > on a Linux host with systemd, switch to a non-graphics "runlevel" > > systemctl isolate multi-user.target > > Log in on the (text mode) console and start emacs (without the -nw option= ). > > The bug is caused by the call to gtk_init() in src/pgtkterm.c. The gtk_in= it > function > calls gtk_init_check, which tries to open a connection to open a display. > When this > fails, gtk_init_check returns false to get_init, which prints a warning a= nd > does an exit(1). > > The GTK/X build also calls gtk_init, but only if a connection to the X > server succeeds > before calling gtk_init. The check is done using the function x_display_ok > in src/xterm.c. > If the check fails, gtk_init is not called at all. The check is possible > because the GTK/X port > can talk directly to the X server, bypassing GTK. > > After some discussion on emacs-devel Jared Finder and I came to the > conclusion > that a good solution would be to unconditionally fall back to text mode if > both the > DISPLAY and WAYLAND_DISPLAY are unset. See: > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2026-09/msg00220.html > > I have attached a patch implementing Jared's idea. Someone in the other thread raised the point that Wayland does not require WAYLAND_DISPLAY to be set, right? Doesn't that rule out a fix as simple as the one posted here? --=20 Sean Whitton
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
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Fri, 18 Sep 2026 08:04:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: =?UTF-8?Q?Johan_Myr=C3=A9en?= <johan.myreen@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2026 18:03:49 +0300 X-Gm-Features: AcwNN1UetGFLwSrf6P5EXh3xNW_tkNInG0VNdw30QxRvlGAzAYLeSsm_wCz65tw Message-ID: <CA+TD5hiDey4cqqcHade1sF9AwgvMtNP5AVTnOs2diLnGKaZouw@HIDDEN> Subject: 32.0.50; PGTK Emacs fails to fall back to text UI if a display server is not available To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000e9002e065bc33559" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:34::11; envelope-from=johan.myreen@HIDDEN; helo=mail-qk2-x11.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: The PGTK build of Emacs does not fall back to text mode when a display server is not available; instead it exits with the following warning: (emacs:657): Gtk-WARNING **: 10:01:36.730: cannot open display: Content analysis details: (2.0 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [2001:470:142:0:0:0:0:17 listed in] [list.dnswl.org] 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 1.0 FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD 'From' gmail.com does not match 'Received' headers 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (johan.myreen[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) --000000000000e9002e065bc33559 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e9002c065bc33557" --000000000000e9002c065bc33557 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The PGTK build of Emacs does not fall back to text mode when a display server is not available; instead it exits with the following warning: (emacs:657): Gtk-WARNING **: 10:01:36.730: cannot open display: To reproduce the bug, switch to a non-GUI environment. For example, on a Linux host with systemd, switch to a non-graphics "runlevel" systemctl isolate multi-user.target Log in on the (text mode) console and start emacs (without the -nw option). The bug is caused by the call to gtk_init() in src/pgtkterm.c. The gtk_init function calls gtk_init_check, which tries to open a connection to open a display. When this fails, gtk_init_check returns false to get_init, which prints a warning and does an exit(1). The GTK/X build also calls gtk_init, but only if a connection to the X server succeeds before calling gtk_init. The check is done using the function x_display_ok in src/xterm.c. If the check fails, gtk_init is not called at all. The check is possible because the GTK/X port can talk directly to the X server, bypassing GTK. After some discussion on emacs-devel Jared Finder and I came to the conclusion that a good solution would be to unconditionally fall back to text mode if both the DISPLAY and WAYLAND_DISPLAY are unset. See: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2026-09/msg00220.html I have attached a patch implementing Jared's idea. In GNU Emacs 32.0.50 (build 2, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.52, cairo version 1.18.4) of 2026-09-18 built on aspire Repository revision: d814eb2a8defe811b9cc0b0a67616f953aad1a66 Repository branch: master System Description: Arch Linux Configured using: 'configure --with-pgtk 'CFLAGS=-g3 -O0'' Configured features: ACL CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GPM GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG LCMS2 LIBOTF LIBSYSTEMD LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PGTK PNG RSVG SECCOMP SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP XIM GTK3 ZLIB Important settings: value of $LC_TIME: fi_FI.UTF8 value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Lisp Interaction Minor modes in effect: lispy-mode: t magit-auto-revert-mode: t server-mode: t global-ligature-mode: t ligature-mode: t dap-tooltip-mode: t dap-ui-many-windows-mode: t dap-ui-controls-mode: t dap-ui-mode: t dap-auto-configure-mode: t dap-mode: t treemacs-filewatch-mode: t treemacs-follow-mode: t treemacs-git-mode: t treemacs-fringe-indicator-mode: t override-global-mode: t which-key-mode: t yas-minor-mode: t save-place-mode: t recentf-mode: t pixel-scroll-precision-mode: t tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t eldoc-mode: t show-paren-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t window-divider-mode: t minibuffer-nonselected-mode: t minibuffer-regexp-mode: t line-number-mode: t indent-tabs-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t Load-path shadows: /home/jem/.config/emacs/elpa/transient-20251118.1611/transient hides /usr/local/share/emacs/32.0.50/lisp/transient /home/jem/.config/emacs/elpa/bind-key-20230203.2004/bind-key hides /usr/local/share/emacs/32.0.50/lisp/bind-key /home/jem/.config/emacs/elpa/which-key-20240620.2145/which-key hides /usr/local/share/emacs/32.0.50/lisp/which-key /home/jem/.config/emacs/elpa/use-package-20230426.2324/use-package hides /usr/local/share/emacs/32.0.50/lisp/use-package/use-package /home/jem/.config/emacs/elpa/use-package-20230426.2324/use-package-bind-key hides /usr/local/share/emacs/32.0.50/lisp/use-package/use-package-bind-key /home/jem/.config/emacs/elpa/use-package-20230426.2324/use-package-jump hides /usr/local/share/emacs/32.0.50/lisp/use-package/use-package-jump /home/jem/.config/emacs/elpa/use-package-20230426.2324/use-package-lint hides /usr/local/share/emacs/32.0.50/lisp/use-package/use-package-lint /home/jem/.config/emacs/elpa/use-package-20230426.2324/use-package-delight hides /usr/local/share/emacs/32.0.50/lisp/use-package/use-package-delight /home/jem/.config/emacs/elpa/use-package-20230426.2324/use-package-core hides /usr/local/share/emacs/32.0.50/lisp/use-package/use-package-core /home/jem/.config/emacs/elpa/use-package-20230426.2324/use-package-ensure hides 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quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>The PGTK build of E= macs does not fall back to text mode when a display server is</div><div>not= available; instead=C2=A0it exits with the following warning:</div><div><di= v><br></div>(emacs:657): Gtk-WARNING **: 10:01:36.730: cannot open display:= <br><br></div><div>To reproduce the bug, switch to a non-GUI environment. F= or example,</div><div>on a Linux host with systemd, switch to a non-graphic= s "runlevel"</div><div><br></div><div>systemctl isolate multi-use= r.target</div><div><br></div><div>Log in on the (text mode) console and sta= rt emacs (without the -nw option).</div><div><br></div><div>The bug is caus= ed by the call to gtk_init() in src/pgtkterm.c. The gtk_init function</div>= <div>calls gtk_init_check, which tries to open a connection to open a displ= ay. When this</div><div>fails, gtk_init_check returns false to get_init, wh= ich prints a warning and does an exit(1).</div><div><br></div><div>The GTK/= X build also calls gtk_init, but only if a connection to the X server succe= eds</div><div>before calling gtk_init. The=C2=A0check is done using the fun= ction x_display_ok in src/xterm.c.</div><div>If the check=C2=A0fails, gtk_i= nit is not called at all. The check is possible because the GTK/X port</div= ><div>can talk directly to the X server, bypassing GTK.</div><div><br></div= ><div>After some discussion on emacs-devel Jared Finder and I came to the c= onclusion</div><div>that=C2=A0a good solution would be to unconditionally f= all back to text mode if both the</div><div>DISPLAY and WAYLAND_DISPLAY are= unset. See:</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://lists.gnu.org/arch= ive/html/emacs-devel/2026-09/msg00220.html">https://lists.gnu.org/archive/h= tml/emacs-devel/2026-09/msg00220.html</a></div><div><br></div><div>I have a= ttached a patch implementing Jared's idea.</div><div><br></div><div><br= >In GNU Emacs 32.0.50 (build 2, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version<br>=C2=A0= 3.24.52, cairo version 1.18.4) of 2026-09-18 built on aspire<br>Repository = revision: d814eb2a8defe811b9cc0b0a67616f953aad1a66<br>Repository branch: ma= ster<br>System Description: Arch Linux<br><br>Configured using:<br>=C2=A0&#= 39;configure --with-pgtk 'CFLAGS=3D-g3 -O0''<br><br>Configured = features:<br>ACL CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GPM GSETTINGS HARF= BUZZ JPEG<br>LCMS2 LIBOTF LIBSYSTEMD LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY INO= TIFY<br>PDUMPER PGTK PNG RSVG SECCOMP SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF<br>TOOLKIT= _SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP XIM GTK3 ZLIB<br><br>Important settings:<br>= =C2=A0 value of 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Johan Myréen <johan.myreen@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81891; Package emacs.
Full text available.
GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham,
1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd,
1994-97 Ian Jackson.