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Subject: bug#8665: automake should offer APIs to honour silent-rules verbosity from shell code in Makefiles
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From: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 22:27:42 +0200
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severity: wishlist
thanks

Hello automakers.

We all know that's not usual, for long and complex makefile rules, to
be, at least in part, unconditionally silenced (with a leading `@'), as
otherwise the noise/information ratio in the output would be too high.
Such rules usually use echo (or similar commands) to print "by hand"
relevant information that might be useful, e.g., in debugging.

In fact, some rules generated by Automake itself are written this way;
for example, various installation rules, or the rules to automatically
rebuild 'Makefile.in's from 'Makefile.am's -- let's see this last one,
to have a real-word example:

  $(srcdir)/Makefile.in: $(srcdir)/Makefile.am $(am__configure_deps)
  @for dep in $?; do \
    case '$(am__configure_deps)' in \
      *$$dep*) \
        echo ' cd $(srcdir) && $(AUTOMAKE) --gnu'; \
        $(am__cd) $(srcdir) && $(AUTOMAKE) --gnu && exit 0; \
        exit 1;; \
    esac; \
  done; \
  echo ' cd $(top_srcdir) && $(AUTOMAKE) --gnu Makefile'; \
  $(am__cd) $(top_srcdir) && $(AUTOMAKE) --gnu Makefile

The problem with such rules is that, when the 'silent-rules' option is
used, they do not respect the default or enforced verbosity; worse of all,
they have no proper way to do so, because automake does not presently
offer any API in this respect.

I thus propose we add an API of this kind.  At first, this might be as
simple as just defining two proper `AM_V_ECHO' and `AM_Q_ECHO' variables;
`AM_V_ECHO' should be `echo' when silent rules are in effect, and `:'
when they are not; viceversa for `AM_Q_ECHO'.

To give a simplified example of what I'm proposing:

  $ cat > Makefile.am <<'END'
  headers:
    @... [commands defining a shell variable `$headers']; \
     $(AM_V_ECHO) "cd somedir && generate-header --flag $$headers"; \
     $(AM_Q_ECHO) "GEN headers"; \
     cd somedir && generate-header --flag $$headers
 END
 $ autoreconf ...
 $ ./configure --disable-silent-rules
 ...
 $ make headers
 cd somedir && generate-header --flag foo.h bar.h baz.h
 $ make headers V=0
 GEN headers
 $ ./configure --enable-silent-rules
 ...
 $ make headers
 GEN headers
 $ make headers V=1
 cd somedir && generate-header --flag foo.h bar.h baz.h

Or maybe we could start being more general from the beginning, and define
a variable `AM_IS_SILENT' (say) that is defined to "yes" when silent rules
are in effect, and to "no" otherwise.

WDYT?

Regards,
  Stefano

P.S. JFTR, this report has been motivated by this other one:
     "check_JAVA does not support silent rules"
     <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=8662>

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To: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#8665: Acknowledgement (automake should offer APIs to honour
 silent-rules verbosity from shell code in Makefiles)
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References: <201105122227.43348.stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN>
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Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 20:29:02 +0000

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Message sent to owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org, bug-automake@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#8665: automake should offer APIs to honour silent-rules verbosity from shell code in Makefiles
Resent-From: Jack Kelly <jack@HIDDEN>
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Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 08:59:35 +1000
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From: Jack Kelly <jack@HIDDEN>
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Comments inline, after some snipping.

On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 6:27 AM, Stefano Lattarini
<stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN> wrote:
> -snip intro-
>
> I thus propose we add an API of this kind. =A0At first, this might be as
> simple as just defining two proper `AM_V_ECHO' and `AM_Q_ECHO' variables;
> `AM_V_ECHO' should be `echo' when silent rules are in effect, and `:'
> when they are not; viceversa for `AM_Q_ECHO'.
>
> To give a simplified example of what I'm proposing:
>
> =A0$ cat > Makefile.am <<'END'
> =A0headers:
> =A0 =A0@... [commands defining a shell variable `$headers']; \
> =A0 =A0 $(AM_V_ECHO) "cd somedir && generate-header --flag $$headers"; \
> =A0 =A0 $(AM_Q_ECHO) "GEN headers"; \
> =A0 =A0 cd somedir && generate-header --flag $$headers

If you're just echoing "GEN headers", is there any reason you can't
use $(AM_V_GEN) here? Maybe we should have a more general method of
declaring silencing variables (like the $(AM_V_GEN), but also the
others that echo 'CC' and friends. Then users who have unconventional
setups can silence things without echoing 'GEN' everywhere.

> =A0END
> =A0$ autoreconf ...
> =A0$ ./configure --disable-silent-rules
> =A0...
> =A0$ make headers
> =A0cd somedir && generate-header --flag foo.h bar.h baz.h
> =A0$ make headers V=3D0
> =A0GEN headers
> =A0$ ./configure --enable-silent-rules
> =A0...
> =A0$ make headers
> =A0GEN headers
> =A0$ make headers V=3D1
> =A0cd somedir && generate-header --flag foo.h bar.h baz.h
>
> Or maybe we could start being more general from the beginning, and define
> a variable `AM_IS_SILENT' (say) that is defined to "yes" when silent rule=
s
> are in effect, and to "no" otherwise.

If you are going to do this, is it sufficient for it to be a variable,
or does it need to be an AM_CONDITIONAL? I'm thinking a variable is
fine.

-- Jack

Message sent to owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org, bug-automake@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#8665: automake should offer APIs to honour silent-rules verbosity from shell code in Makefiles
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From: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN>
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Hello Jack, thanks for the feedback.

On Friday 13 May 2011, Jack Kelly wrote:
> Comments inline, after some snipping.
> 
> On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 6:27 AM, Stefano Lattarini
> <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN> wrote:
> > -snip intro-
> >
> > I thus propose we add an API of this kind.  At first, this might be as
> > simple as just defining two proper `AM_V_ECHO' and `AM_Q_ECHO' variables;
> > `AM_V_ECHO' should be `echo' when silent rules are in effect, and `:'
> > when they are not; viceversa for `AM_Q_ECHO'.
> >
> > To give a simplified example of what I'm proposing:
> >
> >  $ cat > Makefile.am <<'END'
> >  headers:
> >    @... [commands defining a shell variable `$headers']; \
> >     $(AM_V_ECHO) "cd somedir && generate-header --flag $$headers"; \
> >     $(AM_Q_ECHO) "GEN headers"; \
> >     cd somedir && generate-header --flag $$headers
> 
> If you're just echoing "GEN headers", is there any reason you can't
> use $(AM_V_GEN) here?
>
Well, first of all, assuming that $(AM_V_ECHO) and $(AM_Q_ECHO) aren't
available, using just $(AM_V_GEN) wouldn't be enough to silence the
"cd somedir && generate-header --flag $$headers" message echoed by the
rule above, and this clearly defies the purpose of having silent rules
in the first place.  Also in case the generation of headers uses a
timestamp file, say ".headers_timestamp" (which would probably be the
case in a real-world example), the use of $(AM_V_GEN) woul cause the
displaying of a leass appealing and IMHO slightly less clear message
"GEN .headers_timpestamp".

Also, thinking about more general situations, we might want to display
some trimmed-down versions of $headers instead of the constant string
`headers'; for example, we might want to display the number of headers
that are being generated (an information that is available only to the
shell running the rule, and not to the make process):

  $ cat > Makefile.am <<'END'
  headers:
   @...
    $(AM_V_ECHO) "cd somedir && generate-header --flag $$headers"; \
    set x $$headers && shift && $(AM_Q_ECHO) "GEN $# headers"; \
    cd somedir && generate-header --flag $$headers

The use of $(AM_V_GEN) won't allow us to do something like this in a
easy and natural way.

> Maybe we should have a more general method of
> declaring silencing variables (like the $(AM_V_GEN), but also the
> others that echo 'CC' and friends. Then users who have unconventional
> setups can silence things without echoing 'GEN' everywhere.
>
If I understand correctly what you're suggesting, then I think the current
implementation already offers what you want; see the documentation for the
'silent-rules' option at:

 <http://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/html_node/Options.html>

(I know, that is, er, "suboptimally" placed; a patch to fix this is still
pending).

A relevant excerpt:

  You can add your own variables, so strings of your own choice are shown.
  The following snippet shows how you would define your own equivalent of
  AM_V_GEN: 
     pkg_verbose = $(pkg_verbose_$(V))
     pkg_verbose_ = $(pkg_verbose_$(AM_DEFAULT_VERBOSITY))
     pkg_verbose_0 = @echo PKG-GEN $@;
               
     foo: foo.in
         (pkg_verbose)cp $(srcdir)/foo.in $@

> >  END
> >  $ autoreconf ...
> >  $ ./configure --disable-silent-rules
> >  ...
> >  $ make headers
> >  cd somedir && generate-header --flag foo.h bar.h baz.h
> >  $ make headers V=0
> >  GEN headers
> >  $ ./configure --enable-silent-rules
> >  ...
> >  $ make headers
> >  GEN headers
> >  $ make headers V=1
> >  cd somedir && generate-header --flag foo.h bar.h baz.h
> >
> > Or maybe we could start being more general from the beginning, and define
> > a variable `AM_IS_SILENT' (say) that is defined to "yes" when silent rules
> > are in effect, and to "no" otherwise.
> 
> If you are going to do this, is it sufficient for it to be a variable,
> or does it need to be an AM_CONDITIONAL? I'm thinking a variable is
> fine.
>
Me too.  Also because verbosity of rules is expected to be overridable at
make runtime anyway (with the use of `make V=1' and `make V=0'), and
automake conditionals wouldn't play well with this.

Thanks,
  Stefano

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On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 7:30 PM, Stefano Lattarini
<stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN> wrote:
> Hello Jack, thanks for the feedback.
>
> On Friday 13 May 2011, Jack Kelly wrote:
>> Comments inline, after some snipping.
>>
>> On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 6:27 AM, Stefano Lattarini
>> <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN> wrote:
>> > -snip intro-
>> >
>> > I thus propose we add an API of this kind. =A0At first, this might be =
as
>> > simple as just defining two proper `AM_V_ECHO' and `AM_Q_ECHO' variabl=
es;
>> > `AM_V_ECHO' should be `echo' when silent rules are in effect, and `:'
>> > when they are not; viceversa for `AM_Q_ECHO'.
>> >
>> > To give a simplified example of what I'm proposing:
>> >
>> > =A0$ cat > Makefile.am <<'END'
>> > =A0headers:
>> > =A0 =A0@... [commands defining a shell variable `$headers']; \
>> > =A0 =A0 $(AM_V_ECHO) "cd somedir && generate-header --flag $$headers";=
 \
>> > =A0 =A0 $(AM_Q_ECHO) "GEN headers"; \
>> > =A0 =A0 cd somedir && generate-header --flag $$headers
>>
>> If you're just echoing "GEN headers", is there any reason you can't
>> use $(AM_V_GEN) here?
>>
> Well, first of all, assuming that $(AM_V_ECHO) and $(AM_Q_ECHO) aren't
> available, using just $(AM_V_GEN) wouldn't be enough to silence the
> "cd somedir && generate-header --flag $$headers" message echoed by the
> rule above, and this clearly defies the purpose of having silent rules
> in the first place. =A0Also in case the generation of headers uses a
> timestamp file, say ".headers_timestamp" (which would probably be the
> case in a real-world example), the use of $(AM_V_GEN) woul cause the
> displaying of a leass appealing and IMHO slightly less clear message
> "GEN .headers_timpestamp".

You do have $(AM_V_at), though. I am persuaded by your arguments for
the general case.

> Also, thinking about more general situations, we might want to display
> some trimmed-down versions of $headers instead of the constant string
> `headers'; for example, we might want to display the number of headers
> that are being generated (an information that is available only to the
> shell running the rule, and not to the make process):
>
> -snip example-

Agreed.

>> Maybe we should have a more general method of
>> declaring silencing variables (like the $(AM_V_GEN), but also the
>> others that echo 'CC' and friends. Then users who have unconventional
>> setups can silence things without echoing 'GEN' everywhere.
>>
> If I understand correctly what you're suggesting, then I think the curren=
t
> implementation already offers what you want; see the documentation for th=
e
> 'silent-rules' option at:
>
> =A0<http://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/html_node/Options.html>
>
> (I know, that is, er, "suboptimally" placed; a patch to fix this is still
> pending).
>
> A relevant excerpt:
>
> =A0You can add your own variables, so strings of your own choice are show=
n.
> =A0The following snippet shows how you would define your own equivalent o=
f
> =A0AM_V_GEN:
> =A0 =A0 pkg_verbose =3D $(pkg_verbose_$(V))
> =A0 =A0 pkg_verbose_ =3D $(pkg_verbose_$(AM_DEFAULT_VERBOSITY))
> =A0 =A0 pkg_verbose_0 =3D @echo PKG-GEN $@;
>
> =A0 =A0 foo: foo.in
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (pkg_verbose)cp $(srcdir)/foo.in $@

Yes. I think it would be nice to make a Makefile.am declaration or m4
macro to generate this, the above was what I was looking for.

-- Jack

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On Friday 13 May 2011, Jack Kelly wrote:

> [snip]
>
> >> Maybe we should have a more general method of
> >> declaring silencing variables (like the $(AM_V_GEN), but also the
> >> others that echo 'CC' and friends. Then users who have unconventional
> >> setups can silence things without echoing 'GEN' everywhere.
> >>
> > If I understand correctly what you're suggesting, then I think the current
> > implementation already offers what you want; see the documentation for the
> > 'silent-rules' option at:
> >
> >  <http://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/html_node/Options.html>
> >
> > (I know, that is, er, "suboptimally" placed; a patch to fix this is still
> > pending).
> >
> > A relevant excerpt:
> >
> >  You can add your own variables, so strings of your own choice are shown.
> >  The following snippet shows how you would define your own equivalent of
> >  AM_V_GEN:
> >     pkg_verbose = $(pkg_verbose_$(V))
> >     pkg_verbose_ = $(pkg_verbose_$(AM_DEFAULT_VERBOSITY))
> >     pkg_verbose_0 = @echo PKG-GEN $@;
> >
> >     foo: foo.in
> >         (pkg_verbose)cp $(srcdir)/foo.in $@
> 
> Yes. I think it would be nice to make a Makefile.am declaration or m4
> macro to generate this,
>
I agree.  The above idiom seems easy enough to automatize.  I'm not sure
what the best syntax for this new feature would be, tough.

> the above was what I was looking for.
>
> -- Jack
> 

Regards,
  Stefano

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Reviving and oldish bug report (and CC:ing the Automake list now).

Reference: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=8665>

I wrote:
>
> A relevant excerpt [from the manual]:
>
>  You can add your own variables, so strings of your own choice are shown.
>  The following snippet shows how you would define your own equivalent of
>  AM_V_GEN:
>     pkg_verbose = $(pkg_verbose_$(V))
>     pkg_verbose_ = $(pkg_verbose_$(AM_DEFAULT_VERBOSITY))
>     pkg_verbose_0 = @echo PKG-GEN $@;
>     foo: foo.in
>         (pkg_verbose)cp $(srcdir)/foo.in $@

Jack Kelly replied:
>
> Yes. I think it would be nice to make a Makefile.am declaration or m4
> macro to generate this,

To which I replied:
>
> I agree.  The above idiom seems easy enough to automatize.  I'm not sure
> what the best syntax for this new feature would be, tough.

It could be something as simple as this maybe:

  AM_QUIET_PKG = PKG-GEN

which would output in the generated Makefile.in:

  AM_V_PKG = $(pkg_verbose_@AM_V@)
  am__V_PKG_ = $(pkg_verbose_@AM_DEFAULT_V@)
  am__V_PKG_0 = @echo $(AM_QUIET_PKG) $@;

so that an usage like:

  foo: foo.in
          $(AM_V_PKG)cp $(srcdir)/foo.in $@

in Makefile.am will produce at runtime:

  $ make foo V=0
  PKG-GEN foo

  $ make foo V=1
  cp ./foo.in foo

WDYT?

Regards,
  Stefano

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[Resurrecting an old thread]

Reference: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=8665>

Hi Jack, automakers, sorry for the shameful delay.

This patch series (for maint) should take care of the "easy" part of
the bug, i.e., define a make variable that can be used from within the
make recipes to determine whether make is being run in verbose mode
(as with "make V=1") or quiet mode (as with "make V=0").

I will push by tomorrow if there is no objection.

Regards,
  Stefano

Stefano Lattarini (3):
  refactor: &define_verbose_var: accept a third optional argument
  refactor: silent rules handling (a little)
  silent: new $(AM_V_P) variable, tell if we're running in silent mode

 NEWS                          |    6 +++
 automake.in                   |   46 ++++++++++++-----
 doc/automake.texi             |   18 ++++++-
 t/list-of-tests.mk            |    1 +
 t/silent-obsolescent-warns.sh |   71 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 t/silent6.sh                  |  110 +++++++++++++++++++----------------------
 6 files changed, 180 insertions(+), 72 deletions(-)
 create mode 100755 t/silent-obsolescent-warns.sh

-- 
1.7.9.5

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This is only required by future changes.

* automake.in (define_verbose_var): Accept a third optional argument,
specifying the value to assign to the given make variable when silent
rules are disabled.

Signed-off-by: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN>
---
 automake.in |   25 ++++++++++++++++---------
 1 file changed, 16 insertions(+), 9 deletions(-)

diff --git a/automake.in b/automake.in
index 5cf5a2c..5d777c1 100644
--- a/automake.in
+++ b/automake.in
@@ -1138,15 +1138,19 @@ sub verbose_private_var ($)
     return 'am__v_' . $name;
 }
 
-# define_verbose_var (NAME, VAL)
-# ------------------------------
-# For 'silent-rules' mode, setup VAR and dispatcher, to expand to VAL if silent.
-sub define_verbose_var ($$)
-{
-    my ($name, $val) = @_;
+# define_verbose_var (NAME, VAL-IF-SILENT, [VAL-IF-VERBOSE])
+# ----------------------------------------------------------
+# For 'silent-rules' mode, setup VAR and dispatcher, to expand to
+# VAL-IF-SILENT if silent, to VAL-IF-VERBOSE (defaulting to empty)
+# if not.
+sub define_verbose_var ($$;$)
+{
+    my ($name, $silent_val, $verbose_val) = @_;
+    $verbose_val = '' unless defined $verbose_val;
     my $var = verbose_var ($name);
     my $pvar = verbose_private_var ($name);
     my $silent_var = $pvar . '_0';
+    my $verbose_var = $pvar . '_1';
     if (option 'silent-rules')
       {
 	# For typical 'make's, 'configure' replaces AM_V (inside @@) with $(V)
@@ -1155,10 +1159,13 @@ sub define_verbose_var ($$)
 	# See AM_SILENT_RULES in m4/silent.m4.
 	define_variable ($var, '$(' . $pvar . '_@'.'AM_V'.'@)', INTERNAL);
 	define_variable ($pvar . '_', '$(' . $pvar . '_@'.'AM_DEFAULT_V'.'@)', INTERNAL);
-	Automake::Variable::define ($silent_var, VAR_AUTOMAKE, '', TRUE, $val,
-				    '', INTERNAL, VAR_ASIS)
+        Automake::Variable::define ($silent_var, VAR_AUTOMAKE, '', TRUE,
+                                    $silent_val, '', INTERNAL, VAR_ASIS)
 	  if (! vardef ($silent_var, TRUE));
-      }
+        Automake::Variable::define ($verbose_var, VAR_AUTOMAKE, '', TRUE,
+                                    $verbose_val, '', INTERNAL, VAR_ASIS)
+	  if (! vardef ($verbose_var, TRUE));
+}
 }
 
 # Above should not be needed in the general automake code.
-- 
1.7.9.5

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Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 16:52:40 +0200
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* automake.in (handle_languages): Move definition of $(AM_V_GEN)
variable ...
(define_verbose_tagvar): ... and of '$(AM_V_at)' variable ...
(handle_silent): ... in this new subroutine.
(generate_makefile): Call it.

Signed-off-by: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN>
---
 automake.in |   14 ++++++++++----
 1 file changed, 10 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-)

diff --git a/automake.in b/automake.in
index 5d777c1..722a202 100644
--- a/automake.in
+++ b/automake.in
@@ -1206,7 +1206,6 @@ sub define_verbose_tagvar ($)
     if (option 'silent-rules')
       {
 	define_verbose_var ($name, '@echo "  '. $name . ' ' x (8 - length ($name)) . '" $@;');
-	define_verbose_var ('at', '@');
       }
 }
 
@@ -1233,6 +1232,14 @@ sub define_verbose_libtool ()
     return verbose_flag ('lt');
 }
 
+sub handle_silent ()
+{
+    return unless option 'silent-rules';
+    # *Always* provide the user with 'AM_V_GEN' for 'silent-rules' mode.
+    define_verbose_tagvar ('GEN');
+    define_verbose_var ('at', '@');
+}
+
 
 ################################################################
 
@@ -1590,9 +1597,6 @@ sub handle_languages
 	  unless defined $done{$languages{'c'}};
 	define_linker_variable ($languages{'c'});
       }
-
-    # Always provide the user with 'AM_V_GEN' for 'silent-rules' mode.
-    define_verbose_tagvar ('GEN');
 }
 
 
@@ -8153,6 +8157,8 @@ sub generate_makefile ($$)
   handle_programs;
   handle_scripts;
 
+  handle_silent;
+
   # These must be run after all the sources are scanned.  They
   # use variables defined by &handle_libraries, &handle_ltlibraries,
   # or &handle_programs.
-- 
1.7.9.5

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Addresses part of automake bug#8665.

* automake.in (handle_silent): Define a new make variable '$(AM_V_P)',
that expands to a shell conditional that can be used in make recipes to
determine whether they are being run in silent mode or not.  The choice
of the name derives from the LISP convention of appending the letter
'P' to denote a predicate (see also "the '-P' convention" in the Jargon
File); we do so for lack of a better convention.
* t/automake.texi, NEWS: Document the new variable.
* t/silent6.sh: Adjust and extend.  Move out the checks that didn't
actually deal with user extension of silent rules ...
* t/silent-obsolescent-warns.sh: ... into this test (bound to be
removed once 'maint' is merged into the 'master' branch).
* t/list-of-tests.mk: Add the new test.

Signed-off-by: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN>
---
 NEWS                          |    6 +++
 automake.in                   |    7 +++
 doc/automake.texi             |   18 ++++++-
 t/list-of-tests.mk            |    1 +
 t/silent-obsolescent-warns.sh |   71 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 t/silent6.sh                  |  110 +++++++++++++++++++----------------------
 6 files changed, 154 insertions(+), 59 deletions(-)
 create mode 100755 t/silent-obsolescent-warns.sh

diff --git a/NEWS b/NEWS
index cf45836..bced15f 100644
--- a/NEWS
+++ b/NEWS
@@ -60,6 +60,12 @@ New in 1.12.2:
     input file.  Such a warning will also be present in the next
     Autoconf version (2.70).
 
+* Silent rules support:
+
+  - A new predefined $(AM_V_P) make variable is provided; it expands
+    to a shell conditional that can be used in recipes to know whether
+    make is being run in silent or verbose mode.
+
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
 New in 1.12.1:
diff --git a/automake.in b/automake.in
index 722a202..53bed2f 100644
--- a/automake.in
+++ b/automake.in
@@ -1235,6 +1235,13 @@ sub define_verbose_libtool ()
 sub handle_silent ()
 {
     return unless option 'silent-rules';
+    # Define "$(AM_V_P)", expanding to a shell conditional that can be
+    # used in make recipes to determine whether we are being run in
+    # silent mode or not.  The choice of the name derives from the LISP
+    # convention of appending the letter 'P' to denote a predicate (see
+    # also "the '-P' convention" in the Jargon File); we do so for lack
+    # of a better convention.
+    define_verbose_var ('P', 'false', ':');
     # *Always* provide the user with 'AM_V_GEN' for 'silent-rules' mode.
     define_verbose_tagvar ('GEN');
     define_verbose_var ('at', '@');
diff --git a/doc/automake.texi b/doc/automake.texi
index 939fe44..1b57cd8 100644
--- a/doc/automake.texi
+++ b/doc/automake.texi
@@ -10966,15 +10966,31 @@ limitation should go away with time.
 @vindex @code{AM_DEFAULT_VERBOSITY}
 @vindex @code{AM_V}
 @vindex @code{AM_DEFAULT_V}
-To extend the silent mode to your own rules, you have two choices:
+To extend the silent mode to your own rules, you have few choices:
 
 @itemize @bullet
+
 @item
 You can use the predefined variable @code{AM_V_GEN} as a prefix to
 commands that should output a status line in silent mode, and
 @code{AM_V_at} as a prefix to commands that should not output anything
 in silent mode.  When output is to be verbose, both of these variables
 will expand to the empty string.
+
+@item
+You can silence a recipe unconditionally with @code{@@}, and then use
+the predefined variable @code{AM_V_P} to know whether make is being run
+in silent or verbose mode, adjust the verbose information your recipe
+displays accordingly:
+
+@example
+generate-headers:
+        @set -e; \
+        ... [commands defining a shell variable '$headers'] ...; \
+        if $(AM_V_P); then set -x; else echo " GEN   [headers]"; fi; \
+        rm -f $$headers && generate-header --flags $$headers
+@end example
+
 @item
 You can add your own variables, so strings of your own choice are shown.
 The following snippet shows how you would define your own equivalent of
diff --git a/t/list-of-tests.mk b/t/list-of-tests.mk
index 446157c..7d7e88e 100644
--- a/t/list-of-tests.mk
+++ b/t/list-of-tests.mk
@@ -976,6 +976,7 @@ t/silent6.sh \
 t/silent7.sh \
 t/silent8.sh \
 t/silent9.sh \
+t/silent-obsolescent-warns.sh \
 t/silentcxx.sh \
 t/silentcxx-gcc.sh \
 t/silentf77.sh \
diff --git a/t/silent-obsolescent-warns.sh b/t/silent-obsolescent-warns.sh
new file mode 100755
index 0000000..a95f118
--- /dev/null
+++ b/t/silent-obsolescent-warns.sh
@@ -0,0 +1,71 @@
+#!/bin/sh
+# Copyright (C) 2009-2012 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
+#
+# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
+# it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
+# the Free Software Foundation; either version 2, or (at your option)
+# any later version.
+#
+# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
+# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
+# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
+# GNU General Public License for more details.
+#
+# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
+# along with this program.  If not, see <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/>.
+
+# Some checks about silent-rules mode and warnings.
+
+. ./defs || Exit 1
+
+cat >>configure.ac <<'EOF'
+AM_SILENT_RULES
+AC_OUTPUT
+EOF
+
+cat > Makefile.am <<'EOF'
+my_verbose = $(my_verbose_$(V))
+my_verbose_ = $(my_verbose_$(AM_DEFAULT_VERBOSITY))
+my_verbose_0 = @echo " PKG-GEN    $@";
+foo: foo.in
+	$(my_verbose)cp $(srcdir)/foo.in $@
+EOF
+
+$ACLOCAL
+$AUTOMAKE --add-missing
+
+cat > configure.ac <<'END'
+AC_INIT([silent6], [1.0])
+AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([-Wall])
+AC_CONFIG_FILES([Makefile])
+END
+
+rm -rf autom4te*.cache
+$ACLOCAL
+AUTOMAKE_fails
+grep 'my_verbose_\$(V.*non-POSIX ' stderr
+$AUTOMAKE -Wno-error
+
+# AM_SILENT_RULES should turn off the warning.
+echo 'AM_SILENT_RULES' >> configure.ac
+rm -rf autom4te*.cache
+$ACLOCAL
+$AUTOMAKE
+grep 'AM_V_GEN' Makefile.in
+$AUTOMAKE --force -Wno-all -Wportability
+grep 'AM_V_GEN' Makefile.in
+
+# The 'silent-rules' option to AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE should work likewise.
+cat > configure.ac <<'END'
+AC_INIT([silent6], [1.0])
+AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([silent-rules])
+AC_CONFIG_FILES([Makefile])
+END
+rm -rf autom4te*.cache
+$ACLOCAL
+$AUTOMAKE
+grep 'AM_V_GEN' Makefile.in
+$AUTOMAKE --force -Wno-all -Wportability
+grep 'AM_V_GEN' Makefile.in
+
+:
diff --git a/t/silent6.sh b/t/silent6.sh
index 280d25a..1d67a0c 100755
--- a/t/silent6.sh
+++ b/t/silent6.sh
@@ -20,15 +20,33 @@
 
 cat >>configure.ac <<'EOF'
 AM_SILENT_RULES
+AC_CONFIG_FILES([sub/Makefile])
 AC_OUTPUT
 EOF
 
-cat > Makefile.am <<'EOF'
+# We delegate all the work to the subdir makefile.  This is done
+# to ensure any command-line setting of $(V) gets correctly passed
+# down to recursive make invocations.
+echo SUBDIRS = sub > Makefile.am
+
+mkdir sub
+cat > sub/Makefile.am <<'EOF'
 my_verbose = $(my_verbose_$(V))
 my_verbose_ = $(my_verbose_$(AM_DEFAULT_VERBOSITY))
-my_verbose_0 = @echo GEN $@;
+my_verbose_0 = @echo " XGEN    $@";
+
+all-local: foo gen-headers
 
-all-local: foo
+list = 0 1 2
+.PHONY: gen-headers
+gen-headers:
+	@headers=`for i in $(list); do echo sub/$$i.h; done`; \
+	if $(AM_V_P); then set -x; else \
+	  echo " GEN     [headers]"; \
+	fi; \
+	rm -f $$headers || exit 1; \
+## Only fake header generation.
+	: generate-header --flags $$headers
 
 foo: foo.in
 	$(my_verbose)cp $(srcdir)/foo.in $@
@@ -36,72 +54,48 @@ EXTRA_DIST = foo.in
 CLEANFILES = foo
 EOF
 
-: >foo.in
+: > sub/foo.in
 
 $ACLOCAL
 $AUTOMAKE --add-missing
 $AUTOCONF
 
-./configure --enable-silent-rules
-$MAKE >stdout || { cat stdout; Exit 1; }
-cat stdout
-grep '^ *GEN foo *$' stdout
-grep 'cp ' stdout && Exit 1
+do_check ()
+{
+  case ${1-} in
+    --silent) silent=:;;
+    --verbose) silent=false;;
+    *) fatal_ "do_check(): incorrect usage";;
+  esac
+  shift
+  $MAKE clean
+  $MAKE ${1+"$@"} >output 2>&1 || { cat output; Exit 1; }
+  sed 's/^/  /' output
+  if $silent; then
+    $FGREP 'cp ' output && Exit 1
+    $FGREP 'generate-header' output && Exit 1
+    $FGREP 'rm -f' output && Exit 1
+    grep '[012]\.h' output && Exit 1
+    grep '^ XGEN    foo$' output
+    grep '^ GEN     \[headers\]$' output
+  else
+    $FGREP 'GEN ' output && Exit 1
+    $FGREP 'cp ./foo.in foo' output
+    $FGREP "rm -f sub/0.h sub/1.h sub/2.h" output
+    $FGREP "generate-header --flags sub/0.h sub/1.h sub/2.h" output
+  fi
+}
 
-$MAKE clean
-$MAKE V=1 >stdout || { cat stdout; Exit 1; }
-cat stdout
-grep 'GEN ' stdout && Exit 1
-grep 'cp \.*/foo\.in foo' stdout
+./configure --enable-silent-rules
+do_check --silent
+do_check --verbose V=1
 
 $MAKE distclean
 
 ./configure --disable-silent-rules
-$MAKE >stdout || { cat stdout; Exit 1; }
-cat stdout
-grep 'GEN ' stdout && Exit 1
-grep 'cp \.*/foo\.in foo' stdout
-
-$MAKE clean
-$MAKE V=0 >stdout || { cat stdout; Exit 1; }
-cat stdout
-grep '^ *GEN foo *$' stdout
-grep 'cp ' stdout && Exit 1
+do_check --verbose
+do_check --silent V=0
 
 $MAKE distclean
 
-$sleep
-# Things should also work with -Wall in AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE.
-cat > configure.ac <<'END'
-AC_INIT([silent6], [1.0])
-AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([-Wall])
-AC_CONFIG_FILES([Makefile])
-END
-
-$ACLOCAL
-AUTOMAKE_fails
-$AUTOMAKE -Wno-error
-
-# AM_SILENT_RULES should turn off the warning.
-$sleep
-echo 'AM_SILENT_RULES' >> configure.ac
-$ACLOCAL
-$AUTOMAKE
-grep 'AM_V_GEN' Makefile.in
-$AUTOMAKE --force -Wno-all -Wportability
-grep 'AM_V_GEN' Makefile.in
-
-# The 'silent-rules' option to AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE should work likewise.
-$sleep
-cat > configure.ac <<'END'
-AC_INIT([silent6], [1.0])
-AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([silent-rules])
-AC_CONFIG_FILES([Makefile])
-END
-$ACLOCAL
-$AUTOMAKE
-grep 'AM_V_GEN' Makefile.in
-$AUTOMAKE --force -Wno-all -Wportability
-grep 'AM_V_GEN' Makefile.in
-
 :
-- 
1.7.9.5

Message sent to bug-automake@HIDDEN:

X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#8665: [PATCH 0/3] Determine whether silent rules are active from inside a make recipe
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Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 10:18:28 +0200
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On 06/11/2012 04:52 PM, Stefano Lattarini wrote:
> [Resurrecting an old thread]
> 
> Reference: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=8665>
> 
> Hi Jack, automakers, sorry for the shameful delay.
> 
> This patch series (for maint) should take care of the "easy" part of
> the bug, i.e., define a make variable that can be used from within the
> make recipes to determine whether make is being run in verbose mode
> (as with "make V=1") or quiet mode (as with "make V=0").
> 
> I will push by tomorrow if there is no objection.
> 
> Regards,
>   Stefano
> 
> Stefano Lattarini (3):
>   refactor: &define_verbose_var: accept a third optional argument
>   refactor: silent rules handling (a little)
>   silent: new $(AM_V_P) variable, tell if we're running in silent mode
> 
>  NEWS                          |    6 +++
>  automake.in                   |   46 ++++++++++++-----
>  doc/automake.texi             |   18 ++++++-
>  t/list-of-tests.mk            |    1 +
>  t/silent-obsolescent-warns.sh |   71 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>  t/silent6.sh                  |  110 +++++++++++++++++++----------------------
>  6 files changed, 180 insertions(+), 72 deletions(-)
>  create mode 100755 t/silent-obsolescent-warns.sh
> 
Pushed.

Regards,
  Stefano

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