GNU bug report logs - #19174
Wishlist/suggestion for emacs/lisp/calendar/cal-french.el

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Wishlist/suggestion for emacs/lisp/calendar/cal-french.el
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 22:01:13 +0100

The head comments of  lisp/calendar/cal-french.el give your
name and address as the maintainer of this file.

So, here is a wish item for lisp/calendar/cal-french.el.
It is implemented in my github repo :
https://github.com/jforget/emacs-lisp-cal-french

I used cal-french.el from the master branch of
https://github.com/emacs-mirror/emacs
in late October 2014.

There are 4 steps for the wish item, tagged with v1, v2, v3 and v4.
Here is a copy of the README file, showing the new features:

**** beginning of copy-paste
Changes
=======

Day Name
--------

Instead  of just  displaying  "18  Brumaire an  8  de la  Révolution",
cal-french.el now displays "Octidi 18 Brumaire an 8 de la Révolution".

Available with commit e4365c5, tag v1.

Additional Days
---------------

Displaying "Jour  du Travail de l'année  222 de la  Révolution" is not
very convenient, you cannot guess  whether this day is before or after
"Jour du Génie de l'année 222 de la Révolution".  This changes gives a
number in the 1-to-5 range (or 1-to-6 on leap years).  Additionally, I
found in  a book from the  French Revolution era that  these days bear
the same names as the other: "Primidi", "Duodi" etc.  So cal-french.el
will display:

   "Duodi 2 jour complémentaire an 222 de la Révolution, Jour du Génie"

   "Tridi 3 jour complémentaire an 222 de la Révolution, Jour du
Travail"

See http://datetime.mongueurs.net/Histoire/s-c/01-g.en.html.

In addition, when using "g f", you can now reply with the pseudo-month
"jour  complémentaire", and  then a  number  in the  1-to-5 or  1-to-6
range.

Available with commit b6dc17c, tag v2.

Feasts
------

Actually, not  only the 5 or  6 end-of-year additional  days, but also
the 360  normal days  had a feast.  So cal-french.el will  display the
feast for all days, for example:

  "Primidi 1 Vendémiaire an  223 de la Révolution, Jour du Raisin"

Of course, all feasts are available when answering to "g f".

A big disadvantage is that  the size or F<cal-french.el> inflates from
about 10 K to about 30 K.

Available with commit 6060f52, tag v3.

Feasts (second take)
--------------------

There are  two problems with  the functionality above, when  using the
calendar-french-goto-date function, triggered by "g f".

First, if the user enters a  normal (non-leap) year and then types "j"
and auto-complete twice  (tabulation), he gets a list  of 366 entries:
the pseudo-month "jour complémentaire" and  the 365 feasts for the 365
days of the year.

Second, if  the user is not  a native French-speaker (*)  he will have
trouble  sorting  masculine  and   feminine  words:  is  it  "jour  du
coriandre" or "jour de la coriandre"?

(*) and even for native  French-speakers as myself. For example, for a
long time I did the mistake with "coriandre".

The update consists of giving a list which no longer contains "jour du
raisin", "jour  de la coriandre" and  the like, but  only "raisin" and
"coriandre".

Available with commit 68384aa, tag v4.
**** end of copy-paste

Which version do you prefer to implement into Emacs? Will you clone
my Github repo or should I send you the full source or a diff output?
Or a pull request? I do not know yet how to send a pull request, but
I can learn that if necessary.

Problems and unknowns

I have tested only the multibyte version of strings, I do not know
how to activate the singlebyte option. We need to check especially
28 Fructidor jour du maïs ("mai\"s") and 18 Germinal jour de la
ciguë ("cigue\"").

Some historical sources say that "4 jour complémentaire" is "jour de
la raison", other sources say that it is "jour de l'opinion".

When choosing "jour du" vs "jour de la", I was not able to find the
word "bagarade" (26 Fructidor). I have chosen "jour de la bagarade"
because in modern French, there is a word "bigarade" for some kind
of orange and it would give "jour de la bigarade".

For version v3, if the user types "j" TAB TAB, he gets a 366-item
completion list. Performance-wise, it does not seem to be a burden for
Emacs, but you might have a different opinion. In this case, you
should adopt version v4 instead.

Best regards,

Jean Forget

Message #8 received at 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr>
Cc: 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#19174: Wishlist/suggestion for
 emacs/lisp/calendar/cal-french.el
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 14:14:48 -0500

Thanks for the code.

I'm not sure when I will get time to look at it, but I forwarded it
to http://debbugs.gnu.org/19174 so that it is more visible.

Message #11 received at 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr>
Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>, 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#19174: Wishlist/suggestion for
 emacs/lisp/calendar/cal-french.el
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 04:00:24 +0200

Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr> writes:

> The head comments of  lisp/calendar/cal-french.el give your
> name and address as the maintainer of this file.
>
> So, here is a wish item for lisp/calendar/cal-french.el.
> It is implemented in my github repo :
> https://github.com/jforget/emacs-lisp-cal-french

(I'm going through old bug reports that unfortunately got no response at
the time.)

Could you send these changes as a patch to the debbugs address for
easier review?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #14 received at 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>, 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#19174: Wishlist/suggestion for
 emacs/lisp/calendar/cal-french.el
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2021 21:32:28 +0200

Le 28/05/2021 à 04:00, Lars Ingebrigtsen a écrit :
> Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr> writes:
> 
>> The head comments of  lisp/calendar/cal-french.el give your
>> name and address as the maintainer of this file.
>>
>> So, here is a wish item for lisp/calendar/cal-french.el.
>> It is implemented in my github repo :
>> https://github.com/jforget/emacs-lisp-cal-french
> 
> (I'm going through old bug reports that unfortunately got no response at
> the time.)
> 
> Could you send these changes as a patch to the debbugs address for
> easier review?
> 
I can send you a patch ("diff -u" or plain "diff"), but it
will be a patch versus Emacs version 25.1.1, which is installed
on my machine.

I have taken a peek at the current version. I have seen that
there was a huge overhaul of the single-vs-multi-byte issue
in version 28.1. Backporting this overhaul into my version
is a big endeavour and will need much time.

Sending a patch showing the difference between *my* 25.1 version
and *your* 28.1 version would be counterproductive.

So are you interested by a patch for version 25.1 only?

Thank you for your interest,

Jean Forget

Message #17 received at 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr>
Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>, 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#19174: Wishlist/suggestion for
 emacs/lisp/calendar/cal-french.el
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2021 11:34:06 +0200

Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr> writes:

> So are you interested by a patch for version 25.1 only?

Sure.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #20 received at 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>, 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#19174: Wishlist/suggestion for
 emacs/lisp/calendar/cal-french.el
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2021 19:47:50 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Le 08/06/2021 à 11:34, Lars Ingebrigtsen a écrit :
> Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr> writes:
> 
>> So are you interested by a patch for version 25.1 only?
> 
> Sure.
> 
Here it is.

Jean

[cal-french.el.patch (text/x-patch, attachment)]

Message #23 received at 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr>
Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>, 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#19174: Wishlist/suggestion for
 emacs/lisp/calendar/cal-french.el
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2021 12:07:33 +0200

Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr> writes:

>>> So are you interested by a patch for version 25.1 only?
>> Sure.
> Here it is.

Thanks.  This is too big to install in Emacs without assigning a
copyright to the FSF.  Would you be willing to do so?

If so, the form below is how to get started.


Please email the following information to assign <at> gnu.org, and we
will send you the assignment form for your past and future changes.

Please use your full legal name (in ASCII characters) as the subject
line of the message.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
REQUEST: SEND FORM FOR PAST AND FUTURE CHANGES

[What is the name of the program or package you're contributing to?]
Emacs

[Did you copy any files or text written by someone else in these changes?
Even if that material is free software, we need to know about it.]

[Do you have an employer who might have a basis to claim to own
your changes?  Do you attend a school which might make such a claim?]

[For the copyright registration, what country are you a citizen of?]

[What year were you born?]

[Please write your email address here.]

[Please write your postal address here.]

[Which files have you changed so far, and which new files have you written
so far?]

Message #28 received at 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Mattias Engdegård <mattiase <at> acm.org>
To: Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr>
Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>,
 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#19174: Wishlist/suggestion for 
 emacs/lisp/calendar/cal-french.el
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2021 16:11:58 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/html, inline)]

[cal-french-updated.diff (application/octet-stream, attachment)]

Message #31 received at 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr>
To: Mattias Engdegård <mattiase <at> acm.org>
Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>,
 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#19174: Wishlist/suggestion for
 emacs/lisp/calendar/cal-french.el
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 07:40:23 +0200

Le 09/06/2021 à 16:11, Mattias Engdegård a écrit :
> I was curious about what the changes would entail, so I took the liberty 
> to adapt the patch to master; diff attached. (Sorry if I duplicated 
> someone's work.)
> 
> The addition of individual day names is obviously an improvement. As for 
> the rest, you should probably explain and defend them (which is not as 
> terrible as it sounds; we just want to know the reason).
> 
> For example, should the complementary days really be shown with day 
> numbers and day-of-week names, as they don't really belong to a week or 
> month? Shouldn't days, months etc be written in lower case since that's 
> the convention for French?
> 

Several years ago, somebody gave me a PDF file giving historical
events for each day of the French Revolutionary calendar.
I converted it to HTML and here is the result (English version):

http://datetime.mongueurs.net/Histoire/tit/titre-g.en.html

When you read the pages for the additional days, you see that
they are printed with a day number and a day-of-week name. See

http://datetime.mongueurs.net/Histoire/s-c/01-g.en.html

About lower case vs upper case: The French convention for
Revolutionary names may be different from the French convention
for Gregorian names. Most often, the revolutionary month names
and day names are printed with an initial capital letter.
Yet, there are exceptions. See the front page (link above)
which mentions the "9 floréal an 7" with a lower case "f".

See the links from

https://metacpan.org/pod/DateTime::Calendar::FrenchRevolutionary#Internet

(sorry, my email program has split the URL in two lines).

Jean Forget

Message #34 received at 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr>
To: assign <at> gnu.org
Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>,
 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: JEAN FORGET
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 07:56:11 +0200

Le 09/06/2021 à 12:07, Lars Ingebrigtsen a écrit :
> Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr> writes:
> 
>>>> So are you interested by a patch for version 25.1 only?
>>> Sure.
>> Here it is.
> 
> Thanks.  This is too big to install in Emacs without assigning a
> copyright to the FSF.  Would you be willing to do so?
> 
> If so, the form below is how to get started.
> 
> 
> Please email the following information to assign <at> gnu.org, and we
> will send you the assignment form for your past and future changes.
> 
> Please use your full legal name (in ASCII characters) as the subject
> line of the message.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> REQUEST: SEND FORM FOR PAST AND FUTURE CHANGES
> 
[What is the name of the program or package you're contributing to?]
Emacs

[Did you copy any files or text written by someone else in these changes?
Even if that material is free software, we need to know about it.]

The list of feasts was generated from Perl programs in
https://github.com/jforget/French-Revolution-calendar-utilities
and
https://github.com/jforget/DateTime-Calendar-FrenchRevolutionary

The origin of these names is
https://archive.org/details/decretdelaconven00fran_41
(with the help of Gérald Sédrati-Dinet).

[Do you have an employer who might have a basis to claim to own
your changes?  Do you attend a school which might make such a claim?]

No

[For the copyright registration, what country are you a citizen of?]

France

[What year were you born?]

1961

[Please write your email address here.]

J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr

[Please write your postal address here.]
Jean Forget
23 rue d'Essling
F-92400 Courbevoie

[Which files have you changed so far, and which new files have you written
so far?]

lisp/calendar/cal-french.el

Message #37 received at 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Mattias Engdegård <mattiase <at> acm.org>
To: Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr>
Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>,
 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#19174: Wishlist/suggestion for
 emacs/lisp/calendar/cal-french.el
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 11:09:14 +0200

10 juni 2021 kl. 07.40 skrev Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr>:

> http://datetime.mongueurs.net/Histoire/tit/titre-g.en.html
> 
> When you read the pages for the additional days, you see that
> they are printed with a day number and a day-of-week name.

Thank you, that is a primary source! Of course we know little about the context: it may have been written that way for sake of a uniform presentation. However, being no scholar of the republican calendar I will leave that judgement to you.

> About lower case vs upper case: The French convention for
> Revolutionary names may be different from the French convention
> for Gregorian names. Most often, the revolutionary month names
> and day names are printed with an initial capital letter.
> Yet, there are exceptions. See the front page (link above)
> which mentions the "9 floréal an 7" with a lower case "f".

Yes, it is a fair assumption that the usage conventions were less rigid in those days, and it can have been a matter of whether the words occurred in a title or in running text. The (French) Wikipédia article uses predominantly lower case but it obviously follows modern conventions. Again, your call.

Feel free to base your changes on my previously posted diff, but give it a good read-through so that the changes are indeed exactly those that you intended. Also, we'd be happy if you wrote some tests; test/lisp/calendar/cal-french-tests.el would be a suitable place.

Message #40 received at 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr>
To: Mattias Engdegård <mattiase <at> acm.org>
Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>,
 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#19174: Wishlist/suggestion for
 emacs/lisp/calendar/cal-french.el
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 07:55:10 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Le 10/06/2021 à 11:09, Mattias Engdegård a écrit :
> 10 juni 2021 kl. 07.40 skrev Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr>:
> 
>> http://datetime.mongueurs.net/Histoire/tit/titre-g.en.html
>>
>> When you read the pages for the additional days, you see that
>> they are printed with a day number and a day-of-week name.
> 
> Thank you, that is a primary source! Of course we know little about the context: it may have been written that way for sake of a uniform presentation. However, being no scholar of the republican calendar I will leave that judgement to you.
> 
>> About lower case vs upper case: The French convention for
>> Revolutionary names may be different from the French convention
>> for Gregorian names. Most often, the revolutionary month names
>> and day names are printed with an initial capital letter.
>> Yet, there are exceptions. See the front page (link above)
>> which mentions the "9 floréal an 7" with a lower case "f".
> 
> Yes, it is a fair assumption that the usage conventions were less rigid in those days, and it can have been a matter of whether the words occurred in a title or in running text. The (French) Wikipédia article uses predominantly lower case but it obviously follows modern conventions. Again, your call.
> 
> Feel free to base your changes on my previously posted diff, but give it a good read-through so that the changes are indeed exactly those that you intended. Also, we'd be happy if you wrote some tests; test/lisp/calendar/cal-french-tests.el would be a suitable place.
> 

About tests: I am much more used to Perl usages and habits than Lisp.
So the attached Emacs-Lisp file behaves like a Perl module test file.
I have not yet looked at what a real E-Lisp test file looks like.

About lower case vs caps: in my previous message, I have forgotten
to mention another reason I used caps. As I am more a programmer than
an historian, I have opted for ease of programming (not for me, but
for Emacs users). It is easy to convert a capitalized string to
lowercase, it is more difficult to convert a lowercase string to
capitalised, especially with composite words such as "jour de la
Pomme de terre" or "jour du Laurier-thym". If I provide capitalised
strings, the Emacs user can choose between doing nothing and getting
a capitalised string or doing a basic and easy "to-lower" transformation
and getting a lowercase string.

About reading your posted diff: I have not had the time to read it
for now. Also, I may install a recent Emacs version on a virtual
machine, apply your diff and check that it works.

Jean Forget

[verif-calfrench.el (text/x-emacs-lisp, attachment)]

Message #43 received at 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Mattias Engdegård <mattiase <at> acm.org>
To: Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr>
Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>,
 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#19174: Wishlist/suggestion for
 emacs/lisp/calendar/cal-french.el
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 12:29:22 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

15 juni 2021 kl. 07.55 skrev Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr>:

> About tests: I am much more used to Perl usages and habits than Lisp.
> So the attached Emacs-Lisp file behaves like a Perl module test file.
> I have not yet looked at what a real E-Lisp test file looks like.

That's fine, nobody expects you to know that! Attached is your test translated into the standard style; it would go in `lisp/test/calendar/cal-french-tests.el`.

> It is easy to convert a capitalized string to
> lowercase, it is more difficult to convert a lowercase string to
> capitalised, especially with composite words such as "jour de la
> Pomme de terre" or "jour du Laurier-thym".

That's perfectly reasonable.

[cal-french-tests.el (application/octet-stream, attachment)]

Message #46 received at 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Mattias Engdegård <mattiase <at> acm.org>
Cc: Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr>, Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>,
 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#19174: Wishlist/suggestion for
 emacs/lisp/calendar/cal-french.el
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 15:58:23 +0200

Mattias Engdegård <mattiase <at> acm.org> writes:

> That's fine, nobody expects you to know that! Attached is your test
> translated into the standard style; it would go in
> `lisp/test/calendar/cal-french-tests.el`.

OK, then we just have to wait for Jean's copyright paperwork to
complete, and then we can push the patch (and test cases) to Emacs 28, I
guess...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #49 received at 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Mattias Engdegård <mattiase <at> acm.org>
Cc: Jean Forget <J2N-FORGET <at> orange.fr>, Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>,
 19174 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#19174: Wishlist/suggestion for
 emacs/lisp/calendar/cal-french.el
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 15:27:47 +0200

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> Mattias Engdegård <mattiase <at> acm.org> writes:
>
>> That's fine, nobody expects you to know that! Attached is your test
>> translated into the standard style; it would go in
>> `lisp/test/calendar/cal-french-tests.el`.
>
> OK, then we just have to wait for Jean's copyright paperwork to
> complete, and then we can push the patch (and test cases) to Emacs 28, I
> guess...

And the paperwork was completed a month ago, so I've now pushed Jean's
patch with Mattias' changes to the trunk.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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