Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org
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Full text available.Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org
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Full text available.Received: (at 51893) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Nov 2021 21:14:28 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 16 16:14:28 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59334 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mn5me-00068i-3X for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 16:14:28 -0500 Received: from outbound.soverin.net ([116.202.126.228]:40013) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <alan@HIDDEN>) id 1mn5mb-00068I-VN; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 16:14:27 -0500 Received: from smtp.soverin.net (unknown [10.10.3.24]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by outbound.soverin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C6F71D8; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 21:14:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.soverin.net (smtp.soverin.net [159.69.232.138]) by soverin.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=idiocy.org; s=soverin; t=1637097258; bh=t/dHd7vMFfUhMdH799lfaLgFkjJz0wZD4GJtw2x9sig=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=hUKgyOtQi3h7Is33OVjqZNQ87S2co/bRcKNZ/Oxm8hyFPA/XL7B8A8ryMk2XBLx52 yejHpnGUmpr/vAkqzatv43FLCDLGLSocxpFz9xvPsRT5FZMfVGnvBEtVhgFFB02oo2 OYOv/rZzhD9J3VLByudtAp+5usZVollcegztAEpo3caIEqg0ifQI2DbxyTlKeWCwP9 rME71wUG16vNZTdgZev20aGFQ5RpoepGWihjoPJQnmypJ6YA5+anbc0puzeE4qxK2P quqGFPvtN2gSUPLcfqiYTEZmdGSoT1sF4+aPQ775vi2WmnUbWX8+3F2Wusc8DCtmAa fRigDBk6rn+ew== Received: from alan by faroe.holly.idiocy.org with local (Exim 4.95-RC2) (envelope-from <alan@HIDDEN>) id 1mn5mT-000Pxb-9M; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 21:14:17 +0000 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 21:14:17 +0000 From: Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN> To: Andreas Diener <Andreas-Diener@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#51893: thoughts about keys Message-ID: <YZQfKbWCPzYu8YAp@HIDDEN> Mail-Followup-To: Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN>, Andreas Diener <Andreas-Diener@HIDDEN>, 51893 <at> debbugs.gnu.org References: <trinity-8c187c8d-d854-49f2-881d-80ec376a56d5-1637052919611@3c-app-webde-bap04> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <trinity-8c187c8d-d854-49f2-881d-80ec376a56d5-1637052919611@3c-app-webde-bap04> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51893 Cc: 51893 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) package emacs merge 51893 5206 thankyou On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 09:55:19AM +0100, Andreas Diener wrote: > Dear Madam or Sir, > > first: I am from Germany and not a foreign language correspondence clerk, so please excuse my "not so nice" english. I > hope you will understand my text (and my issue). > I saw your email-adress on the gnu-emacs-site and I thought, you may be interested in a comment from a kind of frustrated > "almost-Emacs-user". > > My setting: as mentioned I am from Germany so I work with german keyboard-layout (on Mac), Emacs is 27.2. I am not a > software engineer and I don't write programm code but "prosa" and at times I use LaTeX. To make notes I like to work with > a "slim" editor and simple txt-files with which I can work later on. > Looking around I recently stumbled over Vim and Emacs and I am impressed how powerful these programs are. And perhaps for > me it is not really necessary to work with such advanced programms, I think it is beneficial to know them (and > additional: very interesting and although not so easy to handle I think that's part of the fun). > > Now: the Emacs seems not to be usable for me because of one thing (so far): on a german keyboard there are several > important charakters only available in combination with "normal" keys and the ALT-key (= Meta-key in Emacs). In Emacs > there are key bindings with the ALT-key and that's ok, but all the special characters (e.g. \, |, [, ], {, }, @, ~, „ “ > etc.), which I need kind of frequently (among others for LaTeX) are not available here. > And I think that's kind of distressing, because the CMD-key (Mac) or Window-key, which seems to be on every keyboard > these days, is directly next to the ALT-key and not used at all. > > So the thing seems this to me: even I'd like to explore the Emacs more I am afraid I have to leave it as a serious > option. This is a duplicate of 5206 et al. Unfortunately it's a question of defaults and there doesn't seem to be a satisfactory solution. If you're sure you never want to use the bindings on cmd, which correspond with macOS shortcuts, you can put something like: (setq ns-alternate-modifier 'none ns-command-modifier 'meta) in your init.el. There are other options which are described in the "Mac / GNUstep Customization" section of the manual. -- Alan Third
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#51893
; Package emacs
.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Nov 2021 14:27:14 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 16 09:27:13 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57581 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mmzQX-0000D3-95 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 09:27:13 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:54872) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <Andreas-Diener@HIDDEN>) id 1mmuFQ-00019C-SA for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 03:55:25 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58250) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <Andreas-Diener@HIDDEN>) id 1mmuFQ-0004wN-Kt for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 03:55:24 -0500 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.12]:45623) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <Andreas-Diener@HIDDEN>) id 1mmuFO-0004p9-F6 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 03:55:24 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1637052919; bh=2Cm7w41ubuHvIfosPMXiga5M7KwPOlQD8NR/oZo+XLE=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Subject:Date; b=AHIfR8MToglXSUt//DFdGQZuzSpc/KlgmA2KhZ1pzEbghj56BrsczlBItMF9KrDsn X0bYHtxldmPg820IimBMBgXL6sakoftrIK3RzanJfJRSmFt40P1h5KF25ANBxzUpwe JpsQo+CuC7rnuDclTTtzIo+xukMCObwjKiWpVmzo= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from [134.3.140.252] ([134.3.140.252]) by web-mail.web.de (3c-app-webde-bap04.server.lan [172.19.172.4]) (via HTTP); Tue, 16 Nov 2021 09:55:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <trinity-8c187c8d-d854-49f2-881d-80ec376a56d5-1637052919611@3c-app-webde-bap04> From: Andreas Diener <Andreas-Diener@HIDDEN> To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Subject: thoughts about keys Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 09:55:19 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:S6kQLRgzJc4k2HNQ906StGUbEPsP67wx82w6ebN583XZgmCZ15av7tSj++JSg2AMDXv5A G57UR/JDphLdSiUjw9P+f+/Ur5g2Nj5M8Xkr4A86EO8HAUu88LN2nMuYwJxjuobk8CWonw8T7hjl ssN1LG7mTNxPruk49bFIn9X/QcZW5G7tecZyf3tajP7qYHhDhdX5y9hAbG4xksOvfAEZGLe1Ha8L +tgK2oOebaLuGQfA6ovp2haUkaTLYBx6xLARlVzSyKorZjGH9wCWmjOEEf9S8ohO3WjxysRDp4Jm q8= X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:iGmpBrRz6Hw=:RGmAQCO0zScoBhOwTLsuvM x5rgyhLrY+IDXMKdpVwKWjIMgrfXQIso3d7CjNM9lJ9ohq5MnCfxo7OFkiFJBLBLJ5VqncPZV XaEDUst/zSODts7zRMu/X1R7z3lEMrvSURS2uVLkqA9kDn5eg6otJQQncfK2/blCbjaoR/aPS JLNbFWL9G9wOOdVjgEMtQlrXCvlemXur3hdBdyBl81M42b3jvHNsMo1UZX61Tw41NKXXZHtCG FbsU8s5oYV6JiXzarj56D61H585Otu+BqXgkL7JPF+Gkns/Av9ql/P5s897WidwbVg4IH1Clq CgyXz7jlLGGArfaRk9fiI4446IlU9i/fnYT0875n6YUzGSNnvVxRnvW+CbLXAvpA13h996hOf OKQmwmk/ZXT6MI/7ewd4DJbJdIl/Lu8i7OGPOK54HCMGmJnq0/p5qM52qu9L+flQbxEIINvZL WHWDnYuqf5jeOBlbZUhJGpNeUlZTHPBK+KslUSN0WxmD7P9U3KhihqmKhV43oBotK1SABsGZ1 OSw1uSPgPASxdAWqRiOuvYMFvhoVQbYhg1XvibaAqsOxf5pyQIpWX7hCy5jo2d2E17wrXriWt hvtcGuQ8zdVtEx7brk5qElnfP+Iroobse0FRtGBMPaeytqacY4C5rjn6LZBuSSQzVLUDdEIr1 8sWkGzsFL6G+oZ0fZmRB/qv3LttQWh+DQl1WdhCdJEAhm1Co5EmwKIYQU84pl1FQ3PNTgTFnZ /oefbgM3ar5Y0X0w1ko3liRqh/iTCK/lxaEpvabd5OzTGv1iBpAxDSljP21aLPKkVELMJyg6D PgOpUb3 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.12; envelope-from=Andreas-Diener@HIDDEN; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_score: -0.0 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DEAR_SOMETHING=1.973, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Dear Madam or Sir, first: I am from Germany and not a foreign language correspondence clerk, so please excuse my "not so nice" english. I hope you will understand my text (and my issue). I saw your email-adress on the g [...] Content analysis details: (1.8 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.7 DEAR_SOMETHING BODY: Contains 'Dear (something)' 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (andreas-diener[at]web.de) 0.9 SPF_FAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (fail) [SPF failed: Please see http://www.openspf.org/Why?s=mfrom; id=andreas-diener%40web.de; ip=209.51.188.17; r=debbugs.gnu.org] -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record 0.1 MIME_HTML_ONLY BODY: Message only has text/html MIME parts 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -2.3 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, medium trust [209.51.188.17 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [209.51.188.17 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 1.3 SPOOFED_FREEMAIL No description available. X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 09:27:11 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) <html><head></head><body><div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;"><div>Dear Madam or Sir,</div> <div> </div> <div>first: I am from Germany and not a foreign language correspondence clerk, so please excuse my "not so nice" english. I hope you will understand my text (and my issue).<br/> I saw your email-adress on the gnu-emacs-site and I thought, you may be interested in a comment from a kind of frustrated "almost-Emacs-user".</div> <div> </div> <div>My setting: as mentioned I am from Germany so I work with german keyboard-layout (on Mac), Emacs is 27.2. I am not a software engineer and I don't write programm code but "prosa" and at times I use LaTeX. To make notes I like to work with a "slim" editor and simple txt-files with which I can work later on.<br/> Looking around I recently stumbled over Vim and Emacs and I am impressed how powerful these programs are. And perhaps for me it is not really necessary to work with such advanced programms, I think it is beneficial to know them (and additional: very interesting and although not so easy to handle I think that's part of the fun).</div> <div> </div> <div>Now: the Emacs seems not to be usable for me because of one thing (so far): on a german keyboard there are several important charakters only available in combination with "normal" keys and the ALT-key (= Meta-key in Emacs). In Emacs there are key bindings with the ALT-key and that's ok, but all the special characters (e.g. \, |, [, ], {, }, @, ~, „ “ etc.), which I need kind of frequently (among others for LaTeX) are not available here.<br/> And I think that's kind of distressing, because the CMD-key (Mac) or Window-key, which seems to be on every keyboard these days, is directly next to the ALT-key and not used at all.</div> <div> </div> <div>So the thing seems this to me: even I'd like to explore the Emacs more I am afraid I have to leave it as a serious option.</div> <div><br/> hope you find this an interesting note from a noob,<br/> best regards</div> <div>Andreas Diener</div></div></body></html>
Andreas Diener <Andreas-Diener@HIDDEN>
:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#51893
; Package emacs
.
Full text available.
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