GNU logs - #5206, boring messages


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Subject: bug#5206: OPTION key combinations using international keyboards in the NEXTSTEP versions of Emacs don't work
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Hey!

I've been working on Emacs for some time now, and recently I started =
using the Mac OS X user interface instead of the X windowing system.
But there is one problem: I'm using a Norwegian keyboard, and to use =
characters like |, [, ], {, } and a few other characters I need to use =
either the OPTION or SHIFT+OPTION keys. In the NEXTSTEP version of Emacs =
the OPTION key is defined as the meta key.

OPTION+7 =3D |
OPTION+8 =3D [
OPTION+9 =3D ]
SHIFT+OPTION+7 =3D \
SHIFT+OPTION+8 =3D {
SHIFT+OPTION+9 =3D }

When I press the OPTION+7 keys, the vertical bar should appear as seen =
in the list above, but insted nothing happens until I press an other =
key, in this case I used the A key, and "aaaaaaa" appears. When I press =
the SHIFT+OPTION+7 keys, the word "system" appears. This problem only =
applies to the NEXTSTEP version - the terminal and X window versions =
work as they should.

Best regards,=20
Anders=




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From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (Emacs bug Tracking System)
To: Anders Bolt-Evensen <a-bolt@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#5206: Acknowledgement (OPTION key combinations using
 international keyboards in the NEXTSTEP versions of Emacs don't work)
Message-ID: <handler.5206.B.12606995373741.ack@HIDDEN>
References: <88AF87D3-853F-44C6-9737-E654DD4C54F1@HIDDEN>
X-Emacs-PR-Message: ack 5206
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Reply-To: 5206 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 10:25:05 +0000

Thank you for filing a new bug report with Emacs.

This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message
has been received.

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to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system.

--=20
5206: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D5206
Emacs Bug Tracking System
Contact help-debbugs@HIDDEN with problems


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Anders Bolt-Evensen skrev 2009-12-13 11.18:
> Hey!
>
> I've been working on Emacs for some time now, and recently I started using the Mac OS X user interface instead of the X windowing system.
> But there is one problem: I'm using a Norwegian keyboard, and to use characters like |, [, ], {, } and a few other characters I need to use either the OPTION or SHIFT+OPTION keys. In the NEXTSTEP version of Emacs the OPTION key is defined as the meta key.
>
> OPTION+7 = |
> OPTION+8 = [
> OPTION+9 = ]
> SHIFT+OPTION+7 = \
> SHIFT+OPTION+8 = {
> SHIFT+OPTION+9 = }
>
> When I press the OPTION+7 keys, the vertical bar should appear as seen in the list above, but insted nothing happens until I press an other key, in this case I used the A key, and "aaaaaaa" appears. When I press the SHIFT+OPTION+7 keys, the word "system" appears. This problem only applies to the NEXTSTEP version - the terminal and X window versions work as they should.
>

The defaults used for Emacs is really bad, it makes Emacs almost unusable for 
any text input if you have a non-english keyboard.

Here is what I do as a workaround:

M-x customize-group <return> ns <return>

Scroll down a bit and you see
NS Command Modifier: [Value Menu] super
...
NS Alternate modifier: [Value Menu] meta

If you change those so that command is meta and alternate modifier is No 
modifier you can then use Alt as ususal (i.e. Alt 7 gives | as normal) and use 
the Command-key as meta.

I don't understand why there is a default mapping from Command-key to super. 
Super is very little used and many binding seems to be duplicates of other 
bindings.

	Jan D.




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From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (Emacs bug Tracking System)
To: Jan =?UTF-8?Q?Dj=C3=A4rv?= <jan.h.d@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#5206: Info received (bug#5206: OPTION key combinations using
 international keyboards in	the NEXTSTEP versions of Emacs don't work)
Message-ID: <handler.5206.B.126077775710788.ackinfo@HIDDEN>
References: <4B25F10C.4080706@HIDDEN>
X-Emacs-PR-Message: ack-info 5206
X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs
Reply-To: 5206 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 08:10:06 +0000

Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding
this bug report.

This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message
has been received.

Your message is being forwarded to the package maintainers and other
interested parties for their attention; they will reply in due course.

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If you wish to submit further information on this problem, please
send it to 5206 <at> debbugs.gnu.org.

Please do not send mail to help-debbugs@HIDDEN unless you wish
to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system.

--=20
5206: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D5206
Emacs Bug Tracking System
Contact help-debbugs@HIDDEN with problems


Message sent to bug-submit-list@HIDDEN, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>:


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Anders Bolt-Evensen skrev 2009-12-13 11.18:
> Hey!
>
> I've been working on Emacs for some time now, and recently I started using the Mac OS X user interface instead of the X windowing system.
> But there is one problem: I'm using a Norwegian keyboard, and to use characters like |, [, ], {, } and a few other characters I need to use either the OPTION or SHIFT+OPTION keys. In the NEXTSTEP version of Emacs the OPTION key is defined as the meta key.
>
> OPTION+7 = |
> OPTION+8 = [
> OPTION+9 = ]
> SHIFT+OPTION+7 = \
> SHIFT+OPTION+8 = {
> SHIFT+OPTION+9 = }
>
> When I press the OPTION+7 keys, the vertical bar should appear as seen in the list above, but insted nothing happens until I press an other key, in this case I used the A key, and "aaaaaaa" appears. When I press the SHIFT+OPTION+7 keys, the word "system" appears. This problem only applies to the NEXTSTEP version - the terminal and X window versions work as they should.
>

The defaults used for Emacs is really bad, it makes Emacs almost unusable for 
any text input if you have a non-english keyboard.

Here is what I do as a workaround:

M-x customize-group <return> ns <return>

Scroll down a bit and you see
NS Command Modifier: [Value Menu] super
...
NS Alternate modifier: [Value Menu] meta

If you change those so that command is meta and alternate modifier is No 
modifier you can then use Alt as ususal (i.e. Alt 7 gives | as normal) and use 
the Command-key as meta.

I don't understand why there is a default mapping from Command-key to super. 
Super is very little used and many binding seems to be duplicates of other 
bindings.

	Jan D.



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From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (Emacs bug Tracking System)
To: Jan =?UTF-8?Q?Dj=C3=A4rv?= <jan.h.d@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#5206: Info received (bug#5206: OPTION key combinations using
 international keyboards in	the NEXTSTEP versions of Emacs don't work)
Message-ID: <handler.5206.B5206.126077774910781.ackinfo@HIDDEN>
References: <4B25F10C.4080706@HIDDEN>
X-Emacs-PR-Message: ack-info 5206
X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs
Reply-To: 5206 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 08:10:09 +0000

Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding
this bug report.

This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message
has been received.

Your message is being forwarded to the package maintainers and other
interested parties for their attention; they will reply in due course.

Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s):
 Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>

If you wish to submit further information on this problem, please
send it to 5206 <at> debbugs.gnu.org.

Please do not send mail to help-debbugs@HIDDEN unless you wish
to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system.

--=20
5206: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D5206
Emacs Bug Tracking System
Contact help-debbugs@HIDDEN with problems


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From: Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN>
References: <88AF87D3-853F-44C6-9737-E654DD4C54F1@HIDDEN>
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 21:50:37 +0100
In-Reply-To: <88AF87D3-853F-44C6-9737-E654DD4C54F1@HIDDEN> (Anders
 Bolt-Evensen's message of "Sun, 13 Dec 2009 11:18:38 +0100")
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Anders Bolt-Evensen <a-bolt@HIDDEN> writes:

> Hey!
>
> I've been working on Emacs for some time now, and recently I started using the Mac OS X user interface instead of the X windowing system.
> But there is one problem: I'm using a Norwegian keyboard, and to use characters like |, [, ], {, } and a few other characters I need to use either the OPTION or SHIFT+OPTION keys. In the NEXTSTEP version of Emacs the OPTION key is defined as the meta key.
>
> OPTION+7 = |
> OPTION+8 = [
> OPTION+9 = ]
> SHIFT+OPTION+7 = \
> SHIFT+OPTION+8 = {
> SHIFT+OPTION+9 = }
>
> When I press the OPTION+7 keys, the vertical bar should appear as seen
> in the list above, but insted nothing happens until I press an other
> key, in this case I used the A key, and "aaaaaaa" appears. When I
> press the SHIFT+OPTION+7 keys, the word "system" appears. This problem
> only applies to the NEXTSTEP version - the terminal and X window
> versions work as they should.

Hi, one way round this is to unset the right-option key in Emacs so
left-option works as meta and right-option will behave as "normal":

(setq ns-right-alternate-modifier (quote none))

If you don't like that, there are all sorts of other ways you could
rebind keys.

Emacs has behaved this way for a long time so I get the feeling it's
unlikely the default behaviour is going to be changed. I don't know what
a good alternate default would be as not having a meta key makes Emacs
kind of hard to use and I don't consider the escape key a decent
alternative. Does anyone else have an opinion? Is this a non-bug?
-- 
Alan Third




Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:


X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#5206: OPTION key combinations using international keyboards in the NEXTSTEP versions of Emacs don't work
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From: Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN>
References: <88AF87D3-853F-44C6-9737-E654DD4C54F1@HIDDEN>
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 21:50:37 +0100
In-Reply-To: <88AF87D3-853F-44C6-9737-E654DD4C54F1@HIDDEN> (Anders
 Bolt-Evensen's message of "Sun, 13 Dec 2009 11:18:38 +0100")
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Anders Bolt-Evensen <a-bolt@HIDDEN> writes:

> Hey!
>
> I've been working on Emacs for some time now, and recently I started using the Mac OS X user interface instead of the X windowing system.
> But there is one problem: I'm using a Norwegian keyboard, and to use characters like |, [, ], {, } and a few other characters I need to use either the OPTION or SHIFT+OPTION keys. In the NEXTSTEP version of Emacs the OPTION key is defined as the meta key.
>
> OPTION+7 = |
> OPTION+8 = [
> OPTION+9 = ]
> SHIFT+OPTION+7 = \
> SHIFT+OPTION+8 = {
> SHIFT+OPTION+9 = }
>
> When I press the OPTION+7 keys, the vertical bar should appear as seen
> in the list above, but insted nothing happens until I press an other
> key, in this case I used the A key, and "aaaaaaa" appears. When I
> press the SHIFT+OPTION+7 keys, the word "system" appears. This problem
> only applies to the NEXTSTEP version - the terminal and X window
> versions work as they should.

Hi, one way round this is to unset the right-option key in Emacs so
left-option works as meta and right-option will behave as "normal":

(setq ns-right-alternate-modifier (quote none))

If you don't like that, there are all sorts of other ways you could
rebind keys.

Emacs has behaved this way for a long time so I get the feeling it's
unlikely the default behaviour is going to be changed. I don't know what
a good alternate default would be as not having a meta key makes Emacs
kind of hard to use and I don't consider the escape key a decent
alternative. Does anyone else have an opinion? Is this a non-bug?
-- 
Alan Third




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merge 5011 5206




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severity 5011 wishlist




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merge 24729 5011




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package emacs
severity 51893 wishlist
merge 51893 5011
thankyou


-- 
Alan Third





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