X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#13601: mv should not silently lose file extended attributes Resent-From: jf@HIDDEN Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.13601.B.135965969624910 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: report 13601 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 13601 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: <bug-coreutils@HIDDEN> Received: via spool by submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B.135965969624910 (code B ref -1); Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:15:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jan 2013 19:14:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58013 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1U0zb6-0006Tj-9p for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:14:56 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50892) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <jf@HIDDEN>) id 1U0zTp-0006Ip-V3 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:07:26 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <jf@HIDDEN>) id 1U0zT6-00043m-Pr for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:06:42 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:42485) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <jf@HIDDEN>) id 1U0zT6-00043b-N7 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:06:40 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34011) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <jf@HIDDEN>) id 1U0zT5-0003fj-PQ for bug-coreutils@HIDDEN; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:06:40 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <jf@HIDDEN>) id 1U0zT4-00043F-N9 for bug-coreutils@HIDDEN; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:06:39 -0500 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr ([2a01:e0c:1:1599::13]:53938) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <jf@HIDDEN>) id 1U0zT3-00042Q-UY for bug-coreutils@HIDDEN; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:06:38 -0500 Received: from y.dockes.com (unknown [82.227.105.245]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D59514C8037 for <bug-coreutils@HIDDEN>; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 20:06:31 +0100 (CET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <20746.49334.569751.252972@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 20:06:30 +0100 X-Mailer: VM 8.1.0 under 23.4.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) From: jf@HIDDEN X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:14:54 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) When moving a file having extended attributes to a target filesystem wh= ich does not support them (e.g. an NFS mount), the attributes are silently lost. I think that mv should not complete the move in this case, as the curre= nt behaviour leads to silent and unexpected data loss. Ideally, this behaviour should be controlled by an option, but I think = that the default should be to refuse to lose data. mv version: mv (GNU coreutils) 8.13 Checked on Ubuntu 12.04 (probably not relevant). Regards, J.F. Dock=E8s
Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.428 (Entity 5.428) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System) To: jf@HIDDEN Subject: bug#13601: Acknowledgement (mv should not silently lose file extended attributes) Message-ID: <handler.13601.B.135965969624910.ack <at> debbugs.gnu.org> References: <20746.49334.569751.252972@HIDDEN> X-Gnu-PR-Message: ack 13601 X-Gnu-PR-Package: coreutils Reply-To: 13601 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:15:03 +0000 Thank you for filing a new bug report with debbugs.gnu.org. This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message has been received. Your message is being forwarded to the package maintainers and other interested parties for their attention; they will reply in due course. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): bug-coreutils@HIDDEN If you wish to submit further information on this problem, please send it to 13601 <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Please do not send mail to help-debbugs@HIDDEN unless you wish to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system. --=20 13601: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D13601 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@HIDDEN with problems
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#13601: mv should not silently lose file extended attributes Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2013 00:27:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.13601.B13601.135967840523477 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13601 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: jf@HIDDEN Cc: 13601 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13601-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B13601.135967840523477 (code B ref 13601); Fri, 01 Feb 2013 00:27:02 +0000 Received: (at 13601) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Feb 2013 00:26:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58262 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1U14Sq-00066c-GG for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:26:44 -0500 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:10812) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <P@HIDDEN>) id 1U14Sn-00066T-ES for 13601 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:26:42 -0500 Received: from int-mx02.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (int-mx02.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.12]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r110PtIu022938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:25:55 -0500 Received: from [10.36.116.54] (ovpn-116-54.ams2.redhat.com [10.36.116.54]) by int-mx02.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r110PqF2017999 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:25:54 -0500 Message-ID: <510B0B90.805@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2013 00:25:52 +0000 From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120615 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20746.49334.569751.252972@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <20746.49334.569751.252972@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 10.5.11.12 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mx1.redhat.com id r110PtIu022938 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) On 01/31/2013 07:06 PM, jf@HIDDEN wrote: > > When moving a file having extended attributes to a target filesystem wh= ich > does not support them (e.g. an NFS mount), the attributes are silently > lost. > > I think that mv should not complete the move in this case, as the curre= nt > behaviour leads to silent and unexpected data loss. > > Ideally, this behaviour should be controlled by an option, but I think = that > the default should be to refuse to lose data. > > mv version: mv (GNU coreutils) 8.13 > Checked on Ubuntu 12.04 (probably not relevant). The previous discussion on that was at: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-coreutils/2009-04/threads.html#0017= 4 and the corresponding diagnostics supression patch at: http://git.sv.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=3Dcoreutils.git;a=3Dcommit;h=3D941bd48 I'm inclined to agree there should be some diagnostics. Perhaps we could output diagnostics as normal, but only try the operation once that gives ENOTSUP? thanks, P=E1draig.
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#13601: mv should not silently lose file extended attributes Resent-From: jf@HIDDEN Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2013 07:01:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.13601.B13601.135970202332467 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13601 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> Cc: 13601 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 13601-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B13601.135970202332467 (code B ref 13601); Fri, 01 Feb 2013 07:01:01 +0000 Received: (at 13601) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Feb 2013 07:00:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58507 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1U1Abm-0008Rc-Nn for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Feb 2013 02:00:23 -0500 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr ([212.27.42.4]:49726) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <jf@HIDDEN>) id 1U1Abj-0008RQ-2t for 13601 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Feb 2013 02:00:21 -0500 Received: from y.dockes.com (unknown [82.227.105.245]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D595B4C80EE; Fri, 1 Feb 2013 07:59:25 +0100 (CET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <20747.26572.404731.568669@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 07:59:24 +0100 In-Reply-To: <510B0B90.805@HIDDEN> References: <20746.49334.569751.252972@HIDDEN> <510B0B90.805@HIDDEN> X-Mailer: VM 8.1.0 under 23.4.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) From: jf@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) P=E1draig Brady writes: > On 01/31/2013 07:06 PM, jf@HIDDEN wrote: > > > > When moving a file having extended attributes to a target filesyst= em which > > does not support them (e.g. an NFS mount), the attributes are sile= ntly > > lost. > > > > I think that mv should not complete the move in this case, as the = current > > behaviour leads to silent and unexpected data loss. > > > > Ideally, this behaviour should be controlled by an option, but I t= hink that > > the default should be to refuse to lose data. > > > > mv version: mv (GNU coreutils) 8.13 > > Checked on Ubuntu 12.04 (probably not relevant). >=20 > The previous discussion on that was at: > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-coreutils/2009-04/threads.html= #00174 > and the corresponding diagnostics supression patch at: > http://git.sv.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=3Dcoreutils.git;a=3Dcommit;h=3D941bd= 48 >=20 > I'm inclined to agree there should be some diagnostics. > Perhaps we could output diagnostics as normal, but only > try the operation once that gives ENOTSUP? >=20 > thanks, > P=E1draig. Hi, I should have guessed that this was not the first time this came up, bu= t I could not find another bug report. Here is what I think in a bit more detail: extended attributes could be= very useful, but people won't use them as long as commands treat them a= s discardable data. They are as precious as main file data (think tagging= for example, a lot of effort). In my opinion the default for 'mv' should be to not complete the operat= ion if it would lose data from the source:=20 - This is consistent with 'dangerous' uses of 'mv' which may sometim= es clobber the target but *never* lose the source. - This is just plain common sense, as most people are not aware of subtle filesystem differences, and, for example, will mostly not k= now that NFS does not support extended attributes. You should not have= to be a filesystem expert to use the command line safely. Completing the move and printing an error message is just adding insult= to injury: the data is gone and the message indicates that 'mv' should have known not to do it but did it anyway ! 'cp' does not present the s= ame issue as as the original is still there. If there is a strong reason not to implement this behaviour (I can only= imagine some POSIXy compliance issue), there should at the very least e= xist a non-default option for 'mv' to behave in this way, like -i will preve= nt clobbering a target. One possibility would be to overload -i (not an optimal approach). People could then alias the option into their common= usage or not. I would prefer the first approach, with -f to force the move for exampl= e. I should add for the record that I have been using a command line since= 1986 (Unix v7). This current behaviour in 'mv' hurts both my rationalit= y and a sense of style which had some time to form... Regards, Jean-Fran=E7ois Dock=E8s
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