Assaf Gordon <assafgordon@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org
.
Full text available.Received: (at 13601) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Feb 2013 07:00:23 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 01 02:00:23 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58507 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1U1Abm-0008Rc-Nn for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Feb 2013 02:00:23 -0500 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr ([212.27.42.4]:49726) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <jf@HIDDEN>) id 1U1Abj-0008RQ-2t for 13601 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Feb 2013 02:00:21 -0500 Received: from y.dockes.com (unknown [82.227.105.245]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D595B4C80EE; Fri, 1 Feb 2013 07:59:25 +0100 (CET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <20747.26572.404731.568669@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 07:59:24 +0100 To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?P=E1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#13601: mv should not silently lose file extended attributes In-Reply-To: <510B0B90.805@HIDDEN> References: <20746.49334.569751.252972@HIDDEN> <510B0B90.805@HIDDEN> X-Mailer: VM 8.1.0 under 23.4.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) From: jf@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13601 Cc: 13601 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) P=E1draig Brady writes: > On 01/31/2013 07:06 PM, jf@HIDDEN wrote: > > > > When moving a file having extended attributes to a target filesyst= em which > > does not support them (e.g. an NFS mount), the attributes are sile= ntly > > lost. > > > > I think that mv should not complete the move in this case, as the = current > > behaviour leads to silent and unexpected data loss. > > > > Ideally, this behaviour should be controlled by an option, but I t= hink that > > the default should be to refuse to lose data. > > > > mv version: mv (GNU coreutils) 8.13 > > Checked on Ubuntu 12.04 (probably not relevant). >=20 > The previous discussion on that was at: > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-coreutils/2009-04/threads.html= #00174 > and the corresponding diagnostics supression patch at: > http://git.sv.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=3Dcoreutils.git;a=3Dcommit;h=3D941bd= 48 >=20 > I'm inclined to agree there should be some diagnostics. > Perhaps we could output diagnostics as normal, but only > try the operation once that gives ENOTSUP? >=20 > thanks, > P=E1draig. Hi, I should have guessed that this was not the first time this came up, bu= t I could not find another bug report. Here is what I think in a bit more detail: extended attributes could be= very useful, but people won't use them as long as commands treat them a= s discardable data. They are as precious as main file data (think tagging= for example, a lot of effort). In my opinion the default for 'mv' should be to not complete the operat= ion if it would lose data from the source:=20 - This is consistent with 'dangerous' uses of 'mv' which may sometim= es clobber the target but *never* lose the source. - This is just plain common sense, as most people are not aware of subtle filesystem differences, and, for example, will mostly not k= now that NFS does not support extended attributes. You should not have= to be a filesystem expert to use the command line safely. Completing the move and printing an error message is just adding insult= to injury: the data is gone and the message indicates that 'mv' should have known not to do it but did it anyway ! 'cp' does not present the s= ame issue as as the original is still there. If there is a strong reason not to implement this behaviour (I can only= imagine some POSIXy compliance issue), there should at the very least e= xist a non-default option for 'mv' to behave in this way, like -i will preve= nt clobbering a target. One possibility would be to overload -i (not an optimal approach). People could then alias the option into their common= usage or not. I would prefer the first approach, with -f to force the move for exampl= e. I should add for the record that I have been using a command line since= 1986 (Unix v7). This current behaviour in 'mv' hurts both my rationalit= y and a sense of style which had some time to form... Regards, Jean-Fran=E7ois Dock=E8s
bug-coreutils@HIDDEN
:bug#13601
; Package coreutils
.
Full text available.Received: (at 13601) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Feb 2013 00:26:45 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 31 19:26:45 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58262 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1U14Sq-00066c-GG for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:26:44 -0500 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:10812) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <P@HIDDEN>) id 1U14Sn-00066T-ES for 13601 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:26:42 -0500 Received: from int-mx02.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (int-mx02.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.12]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r110PtIu022938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:25:55 -0500 Received: from [10.36.116.54] (ovpn-116-54.ams2.redhat.com [10.36.116.54]) by int-mx02.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r110PqF2017999 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:25:54 -0500 Message-ID: <510B0B90.805@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2013 00:25:52 +0000 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E1draig_Brady?= <P@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120615 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jf@HIDDEN Subject: Re: bug#13601: mv should not silently lose file extended attributes References: <20746.49334.569751.252972@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <20746.49334.569751.252972@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 10.5.11.12 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mx1.redhat.com id r110PtIu022938 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13601 Cc: 13601 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) On 01/31/2013 07:06 PM, jf@HIDDEN wrote: > > When moving a file having extended attributes to a target filesystem wh= ich > does not support them (e.g. an NFS mount), the attributes are silently > lost. > > I think that mv should not complete the move in this case, as the curre= nt > behaviour leads to silent and unexpected data loss. > > Ideally, this behaviour should be controlled by an option, but I think = that > the default should be to refuse to lose data. > > mv version: mv (GNU coreutils) 8.13 > Checked on Ubuntu 12.04 (probably not relevant). The previous discussion on that was at: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-coreutils/2009-04/threads.html#0017= 4 and the corresponding diagnostics supression patch at: http://git.sv.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=3Dcoreutils.git;a=3Dcommit;h=3D941bd48 I'm inclined to agree there should be some diagnostics. Perhaps we could output diagnostics as normal, but only try the operation once that gives ENOTSUP? thanks, P=E1draig.
bug-coreutils@HIDDEN
:bug#13601
; Package coreutils
.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jan 2013 19:14:56 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 31 14:14:56 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58013 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1U0zb6-0006Tj-9p for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:14:56 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50892) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <jf@HIDDEN>) id 1U0zTp-0006Ip-V3 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:07:26 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <jf@HIDDEN>) id 1U0zT6-00043m-Pr for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:06:42 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:42485) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <jf@HIDDEN>) id 1U0zT6-00043b-N7 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:06:40 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34011) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <jf@HIDDEN>) id 1U0zT5-0003fj-PQ for bug-coreutils@HIDDEN; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:06:40 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <jf@HIDDEN>) id 1U0zT4-00043F-N9 for bug-coreutils@HIDDEN; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:06:39 -0500 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr ([2a01:e0c:1:1599::13]:53938) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <jf@HIDDEN>) id 1U0zT3-00042Q-UY for bug-coreutils@HIDDEN; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:06:38 -0500 Received: from y.dockes.com (unknown [82.227.105.245]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D59514C8037 for <bug-coreutils@HIDDEN>; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 20:06:31 +0100 (CET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <20746.49334.569751.252972@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 20:06:30 +0100 To: <bug-coreutils@HIDDEN> Subject: mv should not silently lose file extended attributes X-Mailer: VM 8.1.0 under 23.4.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) From: jf@HIDDEN X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:14:54 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) When moving a file having extended attributes to a target filesystem wh= ich does not support them (e.g. an NFS mount), the attributes are silently lost. I think that mv should not complete the move in this case, as the curre= nt behaviour leads to silent and unexpected data loss. Ideally, this behaviour should be controlled by an option, but I think = that the default should be to refuse to lose data. mv version: mv (GNU coreutils) 8.13 Checked on Ubuntu 12.04 (probably not relevant). Regards, J.F. Dock=E8s
jf@HIDDEN
:bug-coreutils@HIDDEN
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Full text available.bug-coreutils@HIDDEN
:bug#13601
; Package coreutils
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