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Subject: bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version
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The docstring of `defcustom' says:
:package-version
VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
keyword takes priority over :version.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
but `describe-variable-custom-version-info' gives priority to :version
over :package-version. Which one is correct here?
Thanks!
Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.428 (Entity 5.428) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Bastien Guerry <bzg@HIDDEN> Subject: bug#13824: Acknowledgement (24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version) Message-ID: <handler.13824.B.136191425225747.ack <at> debbugs.gnu.org> References: <87txozc7c4.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Gnu-PR-Message: ack 13824 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 21:31:02 +0000 Thank you for filing a new bug report with debbugs.gnu.org. This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message has been received. Your message is being forwarded to the package maintainers and other interested parties for their attention; they will reply in due course. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN If you wish to submit further information on this problem, please send it to 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Please do not send mail to help-debbugs@HIDDEN unless you wish to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system. --=20 13824: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D13824 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@HIDDEN with problems
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Subject: bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version
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From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 05:59:21 +0200
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Bastien Guerry <bzg@HIDDEN> writes:
> The docstring of `defcustom' says:
>
> :package-version
> VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
> specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
> default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
> keyword takes priority over :version.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> but `describe-variable-custom-version-info' gives priority to :version
> over :package-version. Which one is correct here?
This is still an issue on current master (and 26.2).
I reproduced this using:
(progn
(defcustom foobar nil
"foo"
:version "27.1"
:package-version '(foo . "1"))
(describe-variable-custom-version-info 'foobar))
Which results in:
"This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
version 27.1 of Emacs.
"
But C-h f defcustom says:
:package-version
VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
keyword takes priority over :version.
Thanks,
Stefan Kangas
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Subject: bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version
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(message from Stefan Kangas on Thu, 8 Aug 2019 05:59:21 +0200)
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> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 05:59:21 +0200
> Cc: 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
> Bastien Guerry <bzg@HIDDEN> writes:
>
> > The docstring of `defcustom' says:
> >
> > :package-version
> > VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
> > specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
> > default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
> > keyword takes priority over :version.
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > but `describe-variable-custom-version-info' gives priority to :version
> > over :package-version. Which one is correct here?
>
> This is still an issue on current master (and 26.2).
>
> I reproduced this using:
>
> (progn
> (defcustom foobar nil
> "foo"
> :version "27.1"
> :package-version '(foo . "1"))
> (describe-variable-custom-version-info 'foobar))
>
> Which results in:
>
> "This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
> version 27.1 of Emacs.
> "
>
> But C-h f defcustom says:
>
> :package-version
> VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
> specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
> default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
> keyword takes priority over :version.
The implementation only prefers :package-version for the purposes of
customize-changed-options, i.e. the Options->Customize Emacs->New
Options menu item. By contrast, describe-variable-custom-version-info
is used for displaying the doc strings of options. For a package that
is bundled with Emacs, I think displaying :version in "C-h v" makes
sense. If people agree, then this is a minor documentation bug (also
to be fixed in the ELisp manual), not a code bug.
Bill, what is your take on this? Your change, which introduced this
attribute, only modified customize-changed-options. Was that on
purpose?
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version
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From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 16:13:46 +0200
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> For a package that
> is bundled with Emacs, I think displaying :version in "C-h v" makes
> sense. If people agree, then this is a minor documentation bug (also
> to be fixed in the ELisp manual), not a code bug.
Yes, that makes sense. Let's see what Bill says.
Thanks,
Stefan Kangas
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Subject: bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:
> > From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
> > Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 05:59:21 +0200
> > Cc: 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> >
> > Bastien Guerry <bzg@HIDDEN> writes:
> >
> > > The docstring of `defcustom' says:
> > >
> > > :package-version
> > > VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
> > > specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
> > > default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
> > > keyword takes priority over :version.
> > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > >
> > > but `describe-variable-custom-version-info' gives priority to :version
> > > over :package-version. Which one is correct here?
> >
> > This is still an issue on current master (and 26.2).
> >
> > I reproduced this using:
> >
> > (progn
> > (defcustom foobar nil
> > "foo"
> > :version "27.1"
> > :package-version '(foo . "1"))
> > (describe-variable-custom-version-info 'foobar))
> >
> > Which results in:
> >
> > "This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
> > version 27.1 of Emacs.
> > "
> >
> > But C-h f defcustom says:
> >
> > :package-version
> > VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
> > specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
> > default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
> > keyword takes priority over :version.
>
> The implementation only prefers :package-version for the purposes of
> customize-changed-options, i.e. the Options->Customize Emacs->New
> Options menu item. By contrast, describe-variable-custom-version-info
> is used for displaying the doc strings of options. For a package that
> is bundled with Emacs, I think displaying :version in "C-h v" makes
> sense. If people agree, then this is a minor documentation bug (also
> to be fixed in the ELisp manual), not a code bug.
>
> Bill, what is your take on this? Your change, which introduced this
> attribute, only modified customize-changed-options. Was that on
> purpose?
Thanks for asking. The original intent of package-version was to provide
more accurate version information in packages that were updated more
often than Emacs, regardless of whether they were packaged in Emacs
(like MH-E and Gnus) or not. I think that should apply to any function
that displays version information for an option. That is, any function
that looks for :version should also look for :package-version.
--
Bill Wohler <wohler@HIDDEN> aka <Bill.Wohler@HIDDEN>
http://www.newt.com/wohler/, GnuPG ID:610BD9AD
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Bill Wohler <wohler@HIDDEN> wrote:
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:
>
> > > From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
> > > Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 05:59:21 +0200
> > > Cc: 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > >
> > > Bastien Guerry <bzg@HIDDEN> writes:
> > >
> > > > The docstring of `defcustom' says:
> > > >
> > > > :package-version
> > > > VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
> > > > specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
> > > > default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
> > > > keyword takes priority over :version.
> > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > >
> > > > but `describe-variable-custom-version-info' gives priority to :version
> > > > over :package-version. Which one is correct here?
> > >
> > > This is still an issue on current master (and 26.2).
> > >
> > > I reproduced this using:
> > >
> > > (progn
> > > (defcustom foobar nil
> > > "foo"
> > > :version "27.1"
> > > :package-version '(foo . "1"))
> > > (describe-variable-custom-version-info 'foobar))
> > >
> > > Which results in:
> > >
> > > "This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
> > > version 27.1 of Emacs.
> > > "
> > >
> > > But C-h f defcustom says:
> > >
> > > :package-version
> > > VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
> > > specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
> > > default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
> > > keyword takes priority over :version.
> >
> > The implementation only prefers :package-version for the purposes of
> > customize-changed-options, i.e. the Options->Customize Emacs->New
> > Options menu item. By contrast, describe-variable-custom-version-info
> > is used for displaying the doc strings of options. For a package that
> > is bundled with Emacs, I think displaying :version in "C-h v" makes
> > sense. If people agree, then this is a minor documentation bug (also
> > to be fixed in the ELisp manual), not a code bug.
> >
> > Bill, what is your take on this? Your change, which introduced this
> > attribute, only modified customize-changed-options. Was that on
> > purpose?
>
> Thanks for asking. The original intent of package-version was to provide
> more accurate version information in packages that were updated more
> often than Emacs, regardless of whether they were packaged in Emacs
> (like MH-E and Gnus) or not. I think that should apply to any function
> that displays version information for an option. That is, any function
> that looks for :version should also look for :package-version.
And to answer your question directly, if I didn't change other
functions, it was not on purpose.
By the way, I just checked and describe-variable-custom-version-info,
which was added in 2007, did not yet exist when I added :package-version
in 2006.
--
Bill Wohler <wohler@HIDDEN> aka <Bill.Wohler@HIDDEN>
http://www.newt.com/wohler/, GnuPG ID:610BD9AD
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
In-reply-to: <116969.1565475013@HIDDEN> (message from Bill Wohler on
Sat, 10 Aug 2019 15:10:13 -0700)
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> cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, bzg@HIDDEN,
> 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Bill Wohler <wohler@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 15:10:13 -0700
>
> > Bill, what is your take on this? Your change, which introduced this
> > attribute, only modified customize-changed-options. Was that on
> > purpose?
>
> Thanks for asking. The original intent of package-version was to provide
> more accurate version information in packages that were updated more
> often than Emacs, regardless of whether they were packaged in Emacs
> (like MH-E and Gnus) or not. I think that should apply to any function
> that displays version information for an option. That is, any function
> that looks for :version should also look for :package-version.
Thanks.
Upon taking a better look, I conclude that there's more here than
originally met the eye.
First, the doc string of defcustom says:
:package-version
VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
keyword takes priority over :version. For packages which
are bundled with Emacs releases, the PACKAGE and VERSION
must appear in the alist `customize-package-emacs-version-alist'.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So Stefan's reproducer, viz.:
(progn
(defcustom foobar nil
"foo"
:version "27.1"
:package-version '(foo . "1"))
(describe-variable-custom-version-info 'foobar))
wasn't supposed to work, since it doesn't play by the rules.
Next, MH-E uses :package-version, but doesn't use :version. So, for
example, "C-h v mh-whitelist-preserves-sequences-flag RET" produces
the expected
This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
version 8.4 of the MH-E package that is part of Emacs 24.4.
By contrast, Org mode files use both :package-version and :version,
which I guess was the reason why Bastien filed this bug report in the
first place.
Now, since we _require_ the package versions to appear in
customize-package-emacs-version-alist, specifying :package-version
alone provides all the info we need about both the package version and
the corresponding Emacs version. Therefore, specifying :version as
well is simply redundant when :package-version is given, and Org
shouldn't use :version (btw, Org is the only bundled package which
uses both these attributes). IOW, if a package uses both attributes,
it's a mistake, we should document that to be a mistake (i.e. not just
say :package-version "overrides"), and it should probably be flagged
as a mistake by checkdoc. And yes, functions that need the version
information should ignore :version if :package-version is available.
Which means describe-variable-custom-version-info should indeed be
fixed.
Thanks.
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version
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Comments: In-reply-to Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:
> > cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, bzg@HIDDEN,
> > 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > From: Bill Wohler <wohler@HIDDEN>
> > Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 15:10:13 -0700
> >
> > > Bill, what is your take on this? Your change, which introduced this
> > > attribute, only modified customize-changed-options. Was that on
> > > purpose?
> >
> > Thanks for asking. The original intent of package-version was to provide
> > more accurate version information in packages that were updated more
> > often than Emacs, regardless of whether they were packaged in Emacs
> > (like MH-E and Gnus) or not. I think that should apply to any function
> > that displays version information for an option. That is, any function
> > that looks for :version should also look for :package-version.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Upon taking a better look, I conclude that there's more here than
> originally met the eye.
>
> First, the doc string of defcustom says:
>
> :package-version
> VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
> specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
> default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
> keyword takes priority over :version. For packages which
> are bundled with Emacs releases, the PACKAGE and VERSION
> must appear in the alist `customize-package-emacs-version-alist'.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> So Stefan's reproducer, viz.:
>
> (progn
> (defcustom foobar nil
> "foo"
> :version "27.1"
> :package-version '(foo . "1"))
> (describe-variable-custom-version-info 'foobar))
>
> wasn't supposed to work, since it doesn't play by the rules.
>
> Next, MH-E uses :package-version, but doesn't use :version. So, for
> example, "C-h v mh-whitelist-preserves-sequences-flag RET" produces
> the expected
>
> This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
> version 8.4 of the MH-E package that is part of Emacs 24.4.
>
> By contrast, Org mode files use both :package-version and :version,
> which I guess was the reason why Bastien filed this bug report in the
> first place.
>
> Now, since we _require_ the package versions to appear in
> customize-package-emacs-version-alist, specifying :package-version
> alone provides all the info we need about both the package version and
> the corresponding Emacs version. Therefore, specifying :version as
> well is simply redundant when :package-version is given, and Org
> shouldn't use :version (btw, Org is the only bundled package which
> uses both these attributes). IOW, if a package uses both attributes,
> it's a mistake, we should document that to be a mistake (i.e. not just
> say :package-version "overrides"), and it should probably be flagged
> as a mistake by checkdoc. And yes, functions that need the version
> information should ignore :version if :package-version is available.
> Which means describe-variable-custom-version-info should indeed be
> fixed.
Thanks for digging in. That makes sense. A function that gets the
version info from :package-version or :version as appropriate could be
written (if it hasn't already). If used consistently throughout, it
would provide a good example for obtaining version information.
>
> Thanks.
>
--
Bill Wohler <wohler@HIDDEN> aka <Bill.Wohler@HIDDEN>
http://www.newt.com/wohler/, GnuPG ID:610BD9AD
GNU bug tracking system
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1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd,
1994-97 Ian Jackson.