Received: (at 13824) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Aug 2019 18:06:37 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 11 14:06:37 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45779 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1hwsEi-0005Lh-Ma for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2019 14:06:36 -0400 Received: from ecbiz204.inmotionhosting.com ([173.205.126.238]:43007) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <wohler@HIDDEN>) id 1hwsEe-0005LG-Os for 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2019 14:06:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=newt.com; s=default; h=Message-ID:Date:Content-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References :In-reply-to:Subject:From:cc:To:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=jefvvdvhE54NuAUzLPyG/YaKLDVyoyJoskQZL5ThTeo=; b=3UvEfj2mvvAxXhBhQJjF9KGPvL 3k6bkmXND/xKWJSD/g2Y3wwaTSfnkl15hwxzqlwpos1e/olUYHndHWDu6qYaSsDQ44NqhrPfqtieT updi/yglQRFSl0JFPN3L5VHEr30jvhZ6zNPcMD5vfaBkQxiz30dHG3/XCh9x0F2w1gYY5xbW77W6S 5+5dLCAlgvzvwsxpiHDBSzZkuCZ0h92g1HjghS9w8jSFW4Ci0pGk6dH4cU1vhtSsQ+4skV3ujLoDV ZS9h/8mHRPS25IE27X9ZTtIHDEjnoy6YmKHT92KO+S8zS6XKzBwaPA7x/Vf9PFiAubnJ35xRTDYCN UBWhcpBQ==; Received: from [73.162.57.71] (port=58648 helo=olgas.newt.com) by ecbiz204.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <wohler@HIDDEN>) id 1hwsEH-00CEaR-4T; Sun, 11 Aug 2019 14:06:21 -0400 Received: by olgas.newt.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AC20A3802B3; Sun, 11 Aug 2019 11:06:04 -0700 (PDT) To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> From: Bill Wohler <wohler@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version In-reply-to: <83r25ru7fs.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87txozc7c4.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=UA-=BqFVajf-qq8nss+LRYrpGT1WbJWvr_fgg=aaASg@HIDDEN> <83sgq98jet.fsf@HIDDEN> <116969.1565475013@HIDDEN> <83r25ru7fs.fsf@HIDDEN> Comments: In-reply-to Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> message dated "Sun, 11 Aug 2019 17:01:59 +0300." Organization: Newt Software X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Image-URL: http://www.newt.com/wohler/images/bill-diving.png MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <34218.1565546764.1@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 11:06:04 -0700 Message-ID: <34219.1565546764@HIDDEN> X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ecbiz204.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - newt.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ecbiz204.inmotionhosting.com: authenticated_id: wohler@HIDDEN X-Authenticated-Sender: ecbiz204.inmotionhosting.com: wohler@HIDDEN X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13824 Cc: bzg@HIDDEN, stefan@HIDDEN, 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote: > > cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, bzg@HIDDEN, > > 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > From: Bill Wohler <wohler@HIDDEN> > > Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 15:10:13 -0700 > > > > > Bill, what is your take on this? Your change, which introduced this > > > attribute, only modified customize-changed-options. Was that on > > > purpose? > > > > Thanks for asking. The original intent of package-version was to provide > > more accurate version information in packages that were updated more > > often than Emacs, regardless of whether they were packaged in Emacs > > (like MH-E and Gnus) or not. I think that should apply to any function > > that displays version information for an option. That is, any function > > that looks for :version should also look for :package-version. > > Thanks. > > Upon taking a better look, I conclude that there's more here than > originally met the eye. > > First, the doc string of defcustom says: > > :package-version > VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION) > specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its > default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This > keyword takes priority over :version. For packages which > are bundled with Emacs releases, the PACKAGE and VERSION > must appear in the alist `customize-package-emacs-version-alist'. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > So Stefan's reproducer, viz.: > > (progn > (defcustom foobar nil > "foo" > :version "27.1" > :package-version '(foo . "1")) > (describe-variable-custom-version-info 'foobar)) > > wasn't supposed to work, since it doesn't play by the rules. > > Next, MH-E uses :package-version, but doesn't use :version. So, for > example, "C-h v mh-whitelist-preserves-sequences-flag RET" produces > the expected > > This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in > version 8.4 of the MH-E package that is part of Emacs 24.4. > > By contrast, Org mode files use both :package-version and :version, > which I guess was the reason why Bastien filed this bug report in the > first place. > > Now, since we _require_ the package versions to appear in > customize-package-emacs-version-alist, specifying :package-version > alone provides all the info we need about both the package version and > the corresponding Emacs version. Therefore, specifying :version as > well is simply redundant when :package-version is given, and Org > shouldn't use :version (btw, Org is the only bundled package which > uses both these attributes). IOW, if a package uses both attributes, > it's a mistake, we should document that to be a mistake (i.e. not just > say :package-version "overrides"), and it should probably be flagged > as a mistake by checkdoc. And yes, functions that need the version > information should ignore :version if :package-version is available. > Which means describe-variable-custom-version-info should indeed be > fixed. Thanks for digging in. That makes sense. A function that gets the version info from :package-version or :version as appropriate could be written (if it hasn't already). If used consistently throughout, it would provide a good example for obtaining version information. > > Thanks. > -- Bill Wohler <wohler@HIDDEN> aka <Bill.Wohler@HIDDEN> http://www.newt.com/wohler/, GnuPG ID:610BD9AD
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#13824; Package emacs.
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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 17:01:59 +0300
Message-Id: <83r25ru7fs.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Bill Wohler <wohler@HIDDEN>
In-reply-to: <116969.1565475013@HIDDEN> (message from Bill Wohler on
Sat, 10 Aug 2019 15:10:13 -0700)
Subject: Re: bug#13824: 24.3.50;
:package-version not taking priority over :version
References: <87txozc7c4.fsf@HIDDEN>
<CADwFkm=UA-=BqFVajf-qq8nss+LRYrpGT1WbJWvr_fgg=aaASg@HIDDEN>
<83sgq98jet.fsf@HIDDEN> <116969.1565475013@HIDDEN>
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> cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, bzg@HIDDEN,
> 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Bill Wohler <wohler@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 15:10:13 -0700
>
> > Bill, what is your take on this? Your change, which introduced this
> > attribute, only modified customize-changed-options. Was that on
> > purpose?
>
> Thanks for asking. The original intent of package-version was to provide
> more accurate version information in packages that were updated more
> often than Emacs, regardless of whether they were packaged in Emacs
> (like MH-E and Gnus) or not. I think that should apply to any function
> that displays version information for an option. That is, any function
> that looks for :version should also look for :package-version.
Thanks.
Upon taking a better look, I conclude that there's more here than
originally met the eye.
First, the doc string of defcustom says:
:package-version
VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
keyword takes priority over :version. For packages which
are bundled with Emacs releases, the PACKAGE and VERSION
must appear in the alist `customize-package-emacs-version-alist'.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So Stefan's reproducer, viz.:
(progn
(defcustom foobar nil
"foo"
:version "27.1"
:package-version '(foo . "1"))
(describe-variable-custom-version-info 'foobar))
wasn't supposed to work, since it doesn't play by the rules.
Next, MH-E uses :package-version, but doesn't use :version. So, for
example, "C-h v mh-whitelist-preserves-sequences-flag RET" produces
the expected
This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
version 8.4 of the MH-E package that is part of Emacs 24.4.
By contrast, Org mode files use both :package-version and :version,
which I guess was the reason why Bastien filed this bug report in the
first place.
Now, since we _require_ the package versions to appear in
customize-package-emacs-version-alist, specifying :package-version
alone provides all the info we need about both the package version and
the corresponding Emacs version. Therefore, specifying :version as
well is simply redundant when :package-version is given, and Org
shouldn't use :version (btw, Org is the only bundled package which
uses both these attributes). IOW, if a package uses both attributes,
it's a mistake, we should document that to be a mistake (i.e. not just
say :package-version "overrides"), and it should probably be flagged
as a mistake by checkdoc. And yes, functions that need the version
information should ignore :version if :package-version is available.
Which means describe-variable-custom-version-info should indeed be
fixed.
Thanks.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#13824; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 13824) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Aug 2019 22:41:03 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 10 18:41:03 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44556 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1hwa2k-0002Id-SM for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Aug 2019 18:41:03 -0400 Received: from ecbiz204.inmotionhosting.com ([173.205.126.238]:34875) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <wohler@HIDDEN>) id 1hwa2j-0002IS-Sy for 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Aug 2019 18:40:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=newt.com; s=default; h=Message-ID:Date:Content-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References :In-reply-to:Subject:From:to:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=GdHxqMYO0wUqGPQ34v7mjepOwydEz6O0l1MMrXt/etg=; b=NISbFshzU3Nm/IAjKIqihQTsBD PrNehilBASayhWjNw+7XiMetAphmn/bx96JmDm9aJ5dAbtHybeSZwt3dSBNzZBoSXa/ncqLCWB/9Q 5+IEES/zlqrwYscoLMGbN9GAX7Mb3acf7vZYlot9UePVVu9o3P4iz+OAFce+0sw+s/tAvD1LgdEW7 +zOIZ3hnFpQSd2HXDbsdXQt7PJJx1iX25LGTeqemN6adjNYIsDklBBxR2JdGtBQaCQgyBJkK8Dgnv q+2+jyX8XQatQMBu8cR6WhvV2F5LhxY+hA05AxjqXMVYQ7FahU6mv/dmWd7jIsa7AmaNIm6863QQD 3vg0dhUA==; Received: from [73.162.57.71] (port=56576 helo=olgas.newt.com) by ecbiz204.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <wohler@HIDDEN>) id 1hwa2S-006M17-Qh; Sat, 10 Aug 2019 18:40:52 -0400 Received: by olgas.newt.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5904D3802AB; Sat, 10 Aug 2019 15:40:40 -0700 (PDT) to: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, bzg@HIDDEN, 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org From: Bill Wohler <wohler@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version In-reply-to: <116969.1565475013@HIDDEN> References: <87txozc7c4.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=UA-=BqFVajf-qq8nss+LRYrpGT1WbJWvr_fgg=aaASg@HIDDEN> <83sgq98jet.fsf@HIDDEN> <116969.1565475013@HIDDEN> Comments: In-reply-to Bill Wohler <wohler@HIDDEN> message dated "Sat, 10 Aug 2019 15:10:13 -0700." Organization: Newt Software X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Image-URL: http://www.newt.com/wohler/images/bill-diving.png MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <117723.1565476840.1@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 15:40:40 -0700 Message-ID: <117724.1565476840@HIDDEN> X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ecbiz204.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - newt.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ecbiz204.inmotionhosting.com: authenticated_id: wohler@HIDDEN X-Authenticated-Sender: ecbiz204.inmotionhosting.com: wohler@HIDDEN X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13824 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Bill Wohler <wohler@HIDDEN> wrote: > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote: > > > > From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> > > > Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 05:59:21 +0200 > > > Cc: 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > > > > > Bastien Guerry <bzg@HIDDEN> writes: > > > > > > > The docstring of `defcustom' says: > > > > > > > > :package-version > > > > VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION) > > > > specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its > > > > default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This > > > > keyword takes priority over :version. > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > > > > > but `describe-variable-custom-version-info' gives priority to :version > > > > over :package-version. Which one is correct here? > > > > > > This is still an issue on current master (and 26.2). > > > > > > I reproduced this using: > > > > > > (progn > > > (defcustom foobar nil > > > "foo" > > > :version "27.1" > > > :package-version '(foo . "1")) > > > (describe-variable-custom-version-info 'foobar)) > > > > > > Which results in: > > > > > > "This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in > > > version 27.1 of Emacs. > > > " > > > > > > But C-h f defcustom says: > > > > > > :package-version > > > VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION) > > > specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its > > > default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This > > > keyword takes priority over :version. > > > > The implementation only prefers :package-version for the purposes of > > customize-changed-options, i.e. the Options->Customize Emacs->New > > Options menu item. By contrast, describe-variable-custom-version-info > > is used for displaying the doc strings of options. For a package that > > is bundled with Emacs, I think displaying :version in "C-h v" makes > > sense. If people agree, then this is a minor documentation bug (also > > to be fixed in the ELisp manual), not a code bug. > > > > Bill, what is your take on this? Your change, which introduced this > > attribute, only modified customize-changed-options. Was that on > > purpose? > > Thanks for asking. The original intent of package-version was to provide > more accurate version information in packages that were updated more > often than Emacs, regardless of whether they were packaged in Emacs > (like MH-E and Gnus) or not. I think that should apply to any function > that displays version information for an option. That is, any function > that looks for :version should also look for :package-version. And to answer your question directly, if I didn't change other functions, it was not on purpose. By the way, I just checked and describe-variable-custom-version-info, which was added in 2007, did not yet exist when I added :package-version in 2006. -- Bill Wohler <wohler@HIDDEN> aka <Bill.Wohler@HIDDEN> http://www.newt.com/wohler/, GnuPG ID:610BD9AD
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#13824; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 13824) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Aug 2019 22:10:46 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 10 18:10:46 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44543 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1hwZZS-0001MK-0c for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Aug 2019 18:10:46 -0400 Received: from ecbiz204.inmotionhosting.com ([173.205.126.238]:55815) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <wohler@HIDDEN>) id 1hwZZP-0001Lx-OK for 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Aug 2019 18:10:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=newt.com; s=default; h=Message-ID:Date:Content-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References :In-reply-to:Subject:From:cc:To:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Ndk0t4Y5clVvsvE00QKDXqiSyokb+oxxwoR3Oi4yrgs=; b=YeGBOa4fa9R1/3XrPOupbowB/t NvlRiAGZs1dL4NFjw+u6ewyVbBZdJNmO3beeNzpaPu6KdbxXWEFBQjoeGyMACOeFDwBLRV7jzXpbw MiOLY/WmPcpCUFC/Cmkz+brHxStql+SFpzeVWKSs3Va3tQUwYvMKwOt0hXSVknEFnb6A83KGm0sHM 6gTTW0I/vBQRdjxyByFnlqFL+WCiAyCER+pB857clXXzdYTpwmIM1e/gwkaIJCXHYlO0qxGshLXAe 9I9yaSEyXxI4iuHXM25HBBpxRhZ6cq47TVan5NXnv4qGvZ+7qOFR9paoY8jIhqzVZ90+WyZXU+A5G GkEE30uQ==; Received: from [73.162.57.71] (port=56530 helo=olgas.newt.com) by ecbiz204.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <wohler@HIDDEN>) id 1hwZZ0-005f29-84; Sat, 10 Aug 2019 18:10:31 -0400 Received: by olgas.newt.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BDECF3802AB; Sat, 10 Aug 2019 15:10:13 -0700 (PDT) To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> From: Bill Wohler <wohler@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version In-reply-to: <83sgq98jet.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87txozc7c4.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=UA-=BqFVajf-qq8nss+LRYrpGT1WbJWvr_fgg=aaASg@HIDDEN> <83sgq98jet.fsf@HIDDEN> Comments: In-reply-to Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> message dated "Sat, 10 Aug 2019 12:22:02 +0300." Organization: Newt Software X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Image-URL: http://www.newt.com/wohler/images/bill-diving.png MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <116968.1565475013.1@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 15:10:13 -0700 Message-ID: <116969.1565475013@HIDDEN> X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ecbiz204.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - newt.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ecbiz204.inmotionhosting.com: authenticated_id: wohler@HIDDEN X-Authenticated-Sender: ecbiz204.inmotionhosting.com: wohler@HIDDEN X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13824 Cc: bzg@HIDDEN, Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote: > > From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> > > Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 05:59:21 +0200 > > Cc: 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > > > Bastien Guerry <bzg@HIDDEN> writes: > > > > > The docstring of `defcustom' says: > > > > > > :package-version > > > VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION) > > > specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its > > > default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This > > > keyword takes priority over :version. > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > > > but `describe-variable-custom-version-info' gives priority to :version > > > over :package-version. Which one is correct here? > > > > This is still an issue on current master (and 26.2). > > > > I reproduced this using: > > > > (progn > > (defcustom foobar nil > > "foo" > > :version "27.1" > > :package-version '(foo . "1")) > > (describe-variable-custom-version-info 'foobar)) > > > > Which results in: > > > > "This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in > > version 27.1 of Emacs. > > " > > > > But C-h f defcustom says: > > > > :package-version > > VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION) > > specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its > > default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This > > keyword takes priority over :version. > > The implementation only prefers :package-version for the purposes of > customize-changed-options, i.e. the Options->Customize Emacs->New > Options menu item. By contrast, describe-variable-custom-version-info > is used for displaying the doc strings of options. For a package that > is bundled with Emacs, I think displaying :version in "C-h v" makes > sense. If people agree, then this is a minor documentation bug (also > to be fixed in the ELisp manual), not a code bug. > > Bill, what is your take on this? Your change, which introduced this > attribute, only modified customize-changed-options. Was that on > purpose? Thanks for asking. The original intent of package-version was to provide more accurate version information in packages that were updated more often than Emacs, regardless of whether they were packaged in Emacs (like MH-E and Gnus) or not. I think that should apply to any function that displays version information for an option. That is, any function that looks for :version should also look for :package-version. -- Bill Wohler <wohler@HIDDEN> aka <Bill.Wohler@HIDDEN> http://www.newt.com/wohler/, GnuPG ID:610BD9AD
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#13824; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 13824) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Aug 2019 14:14:03 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 10 10:14:03 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44358 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1hwS8B-0007MO-3T for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Aug 2019 10:14:03 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f177.google.com ([209.85.210.177]:38170) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1hwS89-0007Lo-6d for 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Aug 2019 10:14:01 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f177.google.com with SMTP id o70so2176788pfg.5 for <13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 10 Aug 2019 07:14:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=HoRjaWs6yZwNFZKuJibps9+VSLTzFYeLlyFnsklcbTE=; b=l6dut6I2jqE2HN658cp8JQF3LzL208qqv36ranPEZ/mgtTIuvhA+xKu7OJ7pgmqhRs 1Uqj3AxovSWLu5jTKf7M1MNxJRPcya0kJvtK/bpsjll2fjjH7vwAeUywqyXWH2ZHruhH fvRlE8mQlYrujwQzwLQxaYe78LrA7H4anmCFfXh3BmwHqSVNo2jdPX07qWKMEBM8OH53 wgM3VnAXbtvqkSJ6a7aA2E85BPJC9mATHrbuv4E7pbuszaUZFg/lWbZTjbtqIzshs/TT Ga6zGC6g51eZtwXh9Znh7+RgvzdngTEHA92XCFgcV3VnH58bFMxp49vOgGKypzY/4Jk7 WlYQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXsTr/1e6701o6YZAN6mdAzHjytGTqZXfmBvAblfeMHH+R3ZWY3 Hz+8QWju4Z2icd1cpfUpEFLI7nmcyw0TGmyUDQM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyTXpj9/ZDQrz06NLhqNgYd+xa4XQOIWhFeS5/DQ5hmfPAF3f+i0ae1EBy/QmRBHXAzbseVOCsuz9rUP4xtoAs= X-Received: by 2002:a63:69c1:: with SMTP id e184mr21178474pgc.198.1565446435474; Sat, 10 Aug 2019 07:13:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87txozc7c4.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=UA-=BqFVajf-qq8nss+LRYrpGT1WbJWvr_fgg=aaASg@HIDDEN> <83sgq98jet.fsf@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <83sgq98jet.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 16:13:46 +0200 Message-ID: <CADwFkm=LrVTaUZJJ+bT+N0se2vXT75EfracjZuQV2tOZ96Ts2Q@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13824 Cc: Bastien Guerry <bzg@HIDDEN>, Bill Wohler <wohler@HIDDEN>, 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > For a package that > is bundled with Emacs, I think displaying :version in "C-h v" makes > sense. If people agree, then this is a minor documentation bug (also > to be fixed in the ELisp manual), not a code bug. Yes, that makes sense. Let's see what Bill says. Thanks, Stefan Kangas
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#13824; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 13824) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Aug 2019 09:22:18 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 10 05:22:18 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43463 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1hwNZp-0006bO-Pa for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Aug 2019 05:22:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50878) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1hwNZo-0006bB-GW for 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Aug 2019 05:22:16 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:51345) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1hwNZi-0002A9-Pn; Sat, 10 Aug 2019 05:22:10 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3716 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1hwNZg-0006rd-OP; Sat, 10 Aug 2019 05:22:10 -0400 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 12:22:02 +0300 Message-Id: <83sgq98jet.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, Bill Wohler <wohler@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <CADwFkm=UA-=BqFVajf-qq8nss+LRYrpGT1WbJWvr_fgg=aaASg@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Kangas on Thu, 8 Aug 2019 05:59:21 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version References: <87txozc7c4.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=UA-=BqFVajf-qq8nss+LRYrpGT1WbJWvr_fgg=aaASg@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13824 Cc: bzg@HIDDEN, 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> > Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 05:59:21 +0200 > Cc: 13824 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > Bastien Guerry <bzg@HIDDEN> writes: > > > The docstring of `defcustom' says: > > > > :package-version > > VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION) > > specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its > > default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This > > keyword takes priority over :version. > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > but `describe-variable-custom-version-info' gives priority to :version > > over :package-version. Which one is correct here? > > This is still an issue on current master (and 26.2). > > I reproduced this using: > > (progn > (defcustom foobar nil > "foo" > :version "27.1" > :package-version '(foo . "1")) > (describe-variable-custom-version-info 'foobar)) > > Which results in: > > "This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in > version 27.1 of Emacs. > " > > But C-h f defcustom says: > > :package-version > VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION) > specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its > default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This > keyword takes priority over :version. The implementation only prefers :package-version for the purposes of customize-changed-options, i.e. the Options->Customize Emacs->New Options menu item. By contrast, describe-variable-custom-version-info is used for displaying the doc strings of options. For a package that is bundled with Emacs, I think displaying :version in "C-h v" makes sense. If people agree, then this is a minor documentation bug (also to be fixed in the ELisp manual), not a code bug. Bill, what is your take on this? Your change, which introduced this attribute, only modified customize-changed-options. Was that on purpose?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#13824; Package emacs.
Full text available.Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.
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From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 05:59:21 +0200
Message-ID: <CADwFkm=UA-=BqFVajf-qq8nss+LRYrpGT1WbJWvr_fgg=aaASg@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#13824: 24.3.50;
:package-version not taking priority over :version
To: Bastien Guerry <bzg@HIDDEN>
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Bastien Guerry <bzg@HIDDEN> writes:
> The docstring of `defcustom' says:
>
> :package-version
> VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
> specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
> default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
> keyword takes priority over :version.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> but `describe-variable-custom-version-info' gives priority to :version
> over :package-version. Which one is correct here?
This is still an issue on current master (and 26.2).
I reproduced this using:
(progn
(defcustom foobar nil
"foo"
:version "27.1"
:package-version '(foo . "1"))
(describe-variable-custom-version-info 'foobar))
Which results in:
"This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
version 27.1 of Emacs.
"
But C-h f defcustom says:
:package-version
VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
keyword takes priority over :version.
Thanks,
Stefan Kangas
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#13824; Package emacs.
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From: Bastien Guerry <bzg@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version
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Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 18:28:59 +0100
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The docstring of `defcustom' says:
:package-version
VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
keyword takes priority over :version.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
but `describe-variable-custom-version-info' gives priority to :version
over :package-version. Which one is correct here?
Thanks!
Bastien Guerry <bzg@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#13824; Package emacs.
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