GNU bug report logs - #22746
25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see

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Package: emacs; Severity: wishlist; Reported by: Adrian Robert <adrian.b.robert@HIDDEN>; merged with #22951, #24512; dated Sat, 20 Feb 2016 08:51:02 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Severity set to 'wishlist' from 'normal' Request was from Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.
Merged 22746 22951 24512. Request was from Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

Message received at 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Toon Claes <toon@HIDDEN>
To: John Wiegley <jwiegley@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#22746: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
References: <CF4807F2-5FAB-4A4B-AA0D-9271F94E2E40@HIDDEN>
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Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2016 00:00:52 +0200
In-Reply-To: <m2futlewux.fsf@HIDDEN> (John Wiegley's message of "Fri, 
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John Wiegley <jwiegley@HIDDEN> writes:

> Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>>> There already is an easy way to set `ring-bell-function', so I'm really not
>>> sure what you are asking.
>
> Sorry, I just didn't know about it. :)

So, do we keep the current behavior and rely on third-party packages
like echo-bell.el to customize the behavior?

Or, if we should chose to customize built-in the behavior, maybe a few more
settings should be considered:
 - Duration: Compared to echo-bell-mode, the default warning sign is
 shown way too long. A configurable duration would be nice.
 - Image: Maybe people also would like to specify the image shown as
 visible bell (e.g. Pikachu: https://twitter.com/ErgoEmacs/status/759546738306748416/photo/1 )

TBH, I suggest to keep the current behavior and let user to set
`ring-bell-function' if they like something different.

Regards,
Toon




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#22746; Package emacs. Full text available.
Merged 22746 22951. Request was from Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#22746: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
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>>>>> Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN> writes:

>> There already is an easy way to set `ring-bell-function', so I'm really not
>> sure what you are asking.

> This is why I'm not sure why John's asking for a way to tie in an alerting
> function. It's already there.

Sorry, I just didn't know about it. :)

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#22746; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 17:03:11 +0100
From: Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#22746: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
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On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 08:45:43AM -0700, Drew Adams wrote:
> > > > > What would be the ideal visible bell? The top and bottom lines
> > flashing or
> > > > > flashing the entire window, or do people like the warning icon?
> > > >
> > > > Personally I'd prefer top and bottom lines. Every better: give me a
> > > > defcustom to decide between icon, top/bottom, whole screen, or some
> > > > alerting function (which in future would allow for connecting with
> > alert.el).
> > >
> > > +1.  And not just for OS X.
> > >
> > > It could also incorporate what echo-bell.el does, or similar,
> > > as one of the option values.
> > 
> > Am I right in thinking that this would just require exposing the bell
> > functions to Emacs lisp, and then providing a simple way to set
> > ring-bell-function? Or have I misunderstood?
> 
> Are you asking me?

Sorry, I probably should have responded directly to John.

> There already is an easy way to set `ring-bell-function', so I'm really
> not sure what you are asking.

This is why I'm not sure why John's asking for a way to tie in an
alerting function. It's already there.
-- 
Alan Third




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#22746; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
To: Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN>
Subject: RE: bug#22746: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
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> > > > What would be the ideal visible bell? The top and bottom lines
> flashing or
> > > > flashing the entire window, or do people like the warning icon?
> > >
> > > Personally I'd prefer top and bottom lines. Every better: give me a
> > > defcustom to decide between icon, top/bottom, whole screen, or some
> > > alerting function (which in future would allow for connecting with
> alert.el).
> >
> > +1.  And not just for OS X.
> >
> > It could also incorporate what echo-bell.el does, or similar,
> > as one of the option values.
>=20
> Am I right in thinking that this would just require exposing the bell
> functions to Emacs lisp, and then providing a simple way to set
> ring-bell-function? Or have I misunderstood?

Are you asking me?  I only suggested perhaps incorporating something
like what echo-bell does, as one of the possible visual-bell behaviors
for the defcustom.

There already is an easy way to set `ring-bell-function', so I'm really
not sure what you are asking.




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Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 16:41:54 +0100
From: Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#22746: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
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On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 12:17:15PM -0700, Drew Adams wrote:
> > > What would be the ideal visible bell? The top and bottom lines flashing or
> > > flashing the entire window, or do people like the warning icon?
> > 
> > Personally I'd prefer top and bottom lines. Every better: give me a
> > defcustom to decide between icon, top/bottom, whole screen, or some
> > alerting function (which in future would allow for connecting with alert.el).
> 
> +1.  And not just for OS X.
> 
> It could also incorporate what echo-bell.el does, or similar,
> as one of the option values.

Am I right in thinking that this would just require exposing the bell
functions to Emacs lisp, and then providing a simple way to set
ring-bell-function? Or have I misunderstood?
-- 
Alan Third




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bug#22746; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
To: John Wiegley <jwiegley@HIDDEN>, Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN>
Subject: RE: bug#22746: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
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> > What would be the ideal visible bell? The top and bottom lines flashing=
 or
> > flashing the entire window, or do people like the warning icon?
>=20
> Personally I'd prefer top and bottom lines. Every better: give me a
> defcustom to decide between icon, top/bottom, whole screen, or some
> alerting function (which in future would allow for connecting with alert.=
el).

+1.  And not just for OS X.

It could also incorporate what echo-bell.el does, or similar,
as one of the option values.

http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/download/echo-bell.el




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#22746; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#22746: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
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>>>>> Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN> writes:

> What would be the ideal visible bell? The top and bottom lines flashing or
> flashing the entire window, or do people like the warning icon?

Personally I'd prefer top and bottom lines. Every better: give me a defcustom
to decide between icon, top/bottom, whole screen, or some alerting function
(which in future would allow for connecting with alert.el).

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2




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From: Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN>
To: John Wiegley <jwiegley@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#22746: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
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John Wiegley <jwiegley@HIDDEN> writes:

>>>>>> Xu Xin <railwaycat@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> Emacs mac port has the option to flash the top line and mini buffer as
>> visible bell, can we introduce this feature to Nextstep port?
>
> I'd like this too, although now that the visual bell icon is bigger, it's been
> working for me.

What would be the ideal visible bell? The top and bottom lines flashing
or flashing the entire window, or do people like the warning icon?
-- 
Alan Third




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#22746; Package emacs. Full text available.

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>>>>> Xu Xin <railwaycat@HIDDEN> writes:

> Emacs mac port has the option to flash the top line and mini buffer as
> visible bell, can we introduce this feature to Nextstep port?

I'd like this too, although now that the visual bell icon is bigger, it's been
working for me.

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#22746; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#22746: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
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On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 7:58 AM, Anders Lindgren <andlind@HIDDEN> wrote:
> Hi!
>
>> The visual bell on OS X used to be a large square popped up in the middle
>> of
>> the screen, which was easy to see.  Now it is a very small warning icon,
>> and I
>> often miss it.  Would it be possible to make the warning icon the same
>> size as
>> the square was, or if the icon can only be rendered at that size, provide
>> an
>> option for the old square?
>
> The old code didn't work on El Capitan -- there were some visual artifacts
> left behind afterwards.
>
> Since I didn't have access to a machine running El Capitan, I replaced the
> code with something that work on all OS versions.
>
> It might be possible to increase the size -- however, the symbol is a
> built-in image so there is a risk that an enlarged version will be
> pixelated.
>
> I'm open to other solutions to this. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to
> work on it myself anymore.
>
>     -- Anders
>

Emacs mac port has the option to flash the top line and mini buffer as
visible bell, can we introduce this feature to Nextstep port?

- Xin




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Subject: Re: bug#22746: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
From: Anders Lindgren <andlind@HIDDEN>
To: adrian.b.robert@HIDDEN, 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
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--001a1143f39419c5ab052c3329c6
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Hi!

> The visual bell on OS X used to be a large square popped up in the middle
of
> the screen, which was easy to see.  Now it is a very small warning icon,
and I
> often miss it.  Would it be possible to make the warning icon the same
size as
> the square was, or if the icon can only be rendered at that size, provide
an
> option for the old square?

The old code didn't work on El Capitan -- there were some visual artifacts
left behind afterwards.

Since I didn't have access to a machine running El Capitan, I replaced the
code with something that work on all OS versions.

It might be possible to increase the size -- however, the symbol is a
built-in image so there is a risk that an enlarged version will be
pixelated.

I'm open to other solutions to this. Unfortunately, I don't have the time
to work on it myself anymore.

    -- Anders

--001a1143f39419c5ab052c3329c6
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi!<br><br>&gt; The visual bell on OS X used to be a large=
 square popped up in the middle of<br>&gt; the screen, which was easy to se=
e.=C2=A0 Now it is a very small warning icon, and I<br>&gt; often miss it.=
=C2=A0 Would it be possible to make the warning icon the same size as<br>&g=
t; the square was, or if the icon can only be rendered at that size, provid=
e an<br>&gt; option for the old square?<br><br>The old code didn&#39;t work=
 on El Capitan -- there were some visual artifacts left behind afterwards.<=
div><br></div><div>Since I didn&#39;t have access to a machine running El C=
apitan, I replaced the code with something that work on all OS versions.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>It might be possible to increase the size -- however=
, the symbol is a built-in image so there is a risk that an enlarged versio=
n will be pixelated.</div><div><br></div><div>I&#39;m open to other solutio=
ns to this. Unfortunately, I don&#39;t have the time to work on it myself a=
nymore.</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -- Anders</div><div><br></di=
v></div>

--001a1143f39419c5ab052c3329c6--




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#22746; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
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The visual bell on OS X used to be a large square popped up in the =
middle of
the screen, which was easy to see.  Now it is a very small warning icon, =
and I
often miss it.  Would it be possible to make the warning icon the same =
size as
the square was, or if the icon can only be rendered at that size, =
provide an
option for the old square?






In GNU Emacs 25.0.90.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin13.4.0, NS appkit-1265.21 =
Version 10.9.5 (Build 13F1077))
of 2016-02-01 built on vishuddha.local
Repository revision: ee8b46699523cc1dea7b3d03e3cccff3d62cd847
Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.1265
Configured using:
'configure --with-ns --without-imagemagick CC=3Dgcc CFLAGS=3D-Os'

Configured features:
JPEG NOTIFY ACL LIBXML2 ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS NS

Important settings:
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: Lisp Interaction

Minor modes in effect:
  auto-image-file-mode: t
  which-function-mode: t
  global-hl-line-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  recentf-mode: t
  ns-extended-platform-support-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t

Recent messages:
Loading /usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp/ns-platform-support.el =
(source)...done
Directory name in buffer names (uniquify) disabled globally
Loading /Users/arobert/.recentf...done
Cleaning up the recentf list...done (0 removed)
Loading mic-paren...done
Loading gnus...done
Loading /Users/arobert/.emacs.d/.session...done
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.
Quit

Load-path shadows:
/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp/format-spec hides =
/Applications/Docked/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/format-spec
/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp/uudecode hides =
/Applications/Docked/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/mail/uudecode

Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message dired rfc822 mml mml-sec epg =
mm-decode
mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader
sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums leuven-theme gnus gnus-ems nnheader
mail-utils cus-start cus-load image-file which-func imenu hl-line =
mic-paren
paren tramp tramp-compat auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core gnus-util =
mm-util
help-fns mail-prsvr password-cache tramp-loaddefs cl-macs trampver shell
pcomplete format-spec decompile server session coffee-mode derived cl =
comint
ansi-color ring ns-mark-nav ecb-autoloads edmacro kmacro advice recentf
tree-widget wid-edit ido seq byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile cconv =
cl-extra
help-mode cl-loaddefs pcase cl-lib ns-platform-support easy-mmode =
finder-inf
package easymenu epg-config time-date mule-util tooltip eldoc electric
uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel ns-win ucs-normalize
term/common-win tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe =
tabulated-list
newcomment elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar =
rfn-eshadow
timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu =
font-core
frame cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan =
thai
tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian =
slovak
czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese charscript case-table =
epa-hook
jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice =
loaddefs
button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 =
base64
format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable =
backquote
kqueue cocoa ns multi-tty make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 267511 16130)
(symbols 48 26674 0)
(miscs 40 72 165)
(strings 32 38313 7133)
(string-bytes 1 1069443)
(vectors 16 39756)
(vector-slots 8 711629 7901)
(floats 8 276 6)
(intervals 56 213 0)
(buffers 976 11))




Acknowledgement sent to Adrian Robert <adrian.b.robert@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#22746; Package emacs. Full text available.
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