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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25214; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2019 17:26:03 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 07 12:26:03 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38601 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1grnR5-0005N2-Iz for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Feb 2019 12:26:03 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36214) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1grnR3-0005MY-OK for 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Feb 2019 12:26:02 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:56168) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1grnQy-0004jP-E4; Thu, 07 Feb 2019 12:25:56 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1303 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1grnQy-0004aV-1c; Thu, 07 Feb 2019 12:25:56 -0500 Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2019 19:25:51 +0200 Message-Id: <83tvhfqzmo.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Zhang Haijun <ccsmile2008@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <PS1PR06MB2759F409501F337334342C7AA8680@HIDDEN> (message from Zhang Haijun on Thu, 7 Feb 2019 14:56:22 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#25214: #25214 26.0.50; Interacting with user from threads other than the primary References: <837f6z9a4x.fsf@HIDDEN> <PS1PR06MB275922160EA3DA04C433888EA86F0@HIDDEN> <83zhr8sz5a.fsf@HIDDEN> <PS1PR06MB275990CE5DFE9F68C2EB06DCA8680@HIDDEN> <838syrsmcd.fsf@HIDDEN> <PS1PR06MB2759F409501F337334342C7AA8680@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25214 Cc: 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > From: Zhang Haijun <ccsmile2008@HIDDEN> > CC: "25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 14:56:22 +0000 > > > Sorry for my poor English and poor expression. I mean a data channel, for example a pair of fd created by pipe() or a pair of sockets created by socketpair(). producer-consumer model. > > > If another thread writes to some fd, it means the main thread is not > > running, so it cannot receive the event, even if we did find the way > > of having an fd which can be read by one thread and written by all the > > others. > > Another thread send a input request and then be blocked on a lock(for example, keybord lock, one lock per thread). The main thread(or keybord sheduler thread) then can wake up one thread and give keybord to it. Unless the thread that listens to these requests is never blocked, I don't see how this could work. And in any case, what should a non-main thread do if it wants to ask a question? Asking a question involves displaying the question before reading the answer. You only talked about the second part.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25214; Package emacs.
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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25214; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2019 14:30:09 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 07 09:30:09 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36670 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1grkgq-0000QX-JL for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Feb 2019 09:30:08 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50440) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1grkgm-0000Pi-5Z for 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Feb 2019 09:30:04 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52132) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1grkgg-0005bj-Pb; Thu, 07 Feb 2019 09:29:58 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2295 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1grkgg-00060Y-DY; Thu, 07 Feb 2019 09:29:58 -0500 Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2019 16:29:54 +0200 Message-Id: <838syrsmcd.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Zhang Haijun <ccsmile2008@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <PS1PR06MB275990CE5DFE9F68C2EB06DCA8680@HIDDEN> (message from Zhang Haijun on Thu, 7 Feb 2019 01:39:54 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#25214: #25214 26.0.50; Interacting with user from threads other than the primary References: <837f6z9a4x.fsf@HIDDEN> <PS1PR06MB275922160EA3DA04C433888EA86F0@HIDDEN> <83zhr8sz5a.fsf@HIDDEN> <PS1PR06MB275990CE5DFE9F68C2EB06DCA8680@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25214 Cc: 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > From: Zhang Haijun <ccsmile2008@HIDDEN> > CC: "25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 01:39:54 +0000 > > 1. Create a fd to receive the input request event. This fd can only be watched by main thread or a special keybord sheduler thread. > 2. If a thread need input, it sends an input request event(containning its thread id, prompt бн) to the fd and then goto background. How do you "send input request to the fd"? A program cannot both read and write to the same fd within the same process, at least not portably. > 3. The main thread(or keyboard sheduler thread) receives the event and put it into in-box and show a notification to user. If another thread writes to some fd, it means the main thread is not running, so it cannot receive the event, even if we did find the way of having an fd which can be read by one thread and written by all the others.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25214; Package emacs.
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Thu, 7 Feb 2019 13:49:21 +0000 Received: from PS1PR06MB2759.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.152.248.57) by HK2APC01FT024.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.248.147) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.20.1580.10 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 13:49:21 +0000 Received: from PS1PR06MB2759.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f148:4bb6:5470:d6c]) by PS1PR06MB2759.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f148:4bb6:5470:d6c%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1601.016; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 13:49:20 +0000 From: Zhang Haijun <ccsmile2008@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#25214: #25214 26.0.50; Interacting with user from threads other than the primary Thread-Topic: bug#25214: #25214 26.0.50; Interacting with user from threads other than the primary Thread-Index: AQHUvoYG62myD/qcakyPc2fhgfZyp6XUWseA Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 13:49:20 +0000 Message-ID: <PS1PR06MB2759CEBAA9C3B5730A16E864A8680@HIDDEN> References: <837f6z9a4x.fsf@HIDDEN> <PS1PR06MB275922160EA3DA04C433888EA86F0@HIDDEN> <83zhr8sz5a.fsf@HIDDEN> <D55AF9DD-D8D2-4A59-AE6D-24B597A164C1@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <D55AF9DD-D8D2-4A59-AE6D-24B597A164C1@HIDDEN> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-clientproxiedby: HK0PR01CA0070.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (2603:1096:203:a6::34) To PS1PR06MB2759.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:1096:803:46::13) x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:3ADD1A51EF84F23BD5F30C32B15EB2A9F85630C906E88FC3C4DD1F4334DC3F5B; 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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25214; Package emacs.
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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25214; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2019 15:41:19 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 06 10:41:19 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36085 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1grPKB-0002UY-6U for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 10:41:19 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45044) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1grPKA-0002UN-Bz for 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 10:41:18 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:42819) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1grPK4-00027C-TE; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 10:41:12 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1120 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1grPK4-0002bA-Fs; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 10:41:12 -0500 Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2019 17:41:05 +0200 Message-Id: <83zhr8sz5a.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Zhang Haijun <ccsmile2008@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <PS1PR06MB275922160EA3DA04C433888EA86F0@HIDDEN> (message from Zhang Haijun on Wed, 6 Feb 2019 06:58:44 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#25214: #25214 26.0.50; Interacting with user from threads other than the primary References: <837f6z9a4x.fsf@HIDDEN> <PS1PR06MB275922160EA3DA04C433888EA86F0@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25214 Cc: 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > From: Zhang Haijun <ccsmile2008@HIDDEN> > Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 06:58:44 +0000 > > Every inputting request from other threads can be treated like an email. The problem is in receiving the input into Emacs in the first place. It has to be done by some thread, not necessarily the one that is executing when input arrives. So we are back to square one. Thanks.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25214; Package emacs.
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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25214; Package emacs.
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From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#25214: 26.0.50;
Interacting with user from threads other than the primary
References: <837f6z9a4x.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zhwguskw.fsf@HIDDEN>
<83fty8ge50.fsf@HIDDEN> <83efdsgcqv.fsf@HIDDEN>
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<87o9ciapdf.fsf@HIDDEN> <83o9ci7w0d.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 13:09:12 +0200
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> Can you describe what exactly would you like someone else to
> implement? IOW, what minimal change will allow you to continue your
> work in this direction?
I don't know whether I could do this exactly. But the problem in this
bug report is, that we cannot dedicate keyboard input to a non-main
thread. Usually this is not a problem, I believe that plain editing
shall always happen in the main thread. But sometimes we have the need
to communicate with the user from a non-main thread.
This is a scenario like echoing the prompt "Do you want to delete file
foo?", and the user will type the answer. All this must happen in the
current thread, and also related buffers must be kept (often there is a
help buffer for possible answers).
The point is, that this happens while a pselect is running, which has
dedicated keyboard file descriptors to the main thread already. This
pselect must finish (likely by waiting for the timeout), keyboard
related file descriptors must be rearranged, and a new pselect must be
started which reads the input inside the current thread.
When finished, file descriptors must be rearranged to the main
thread. All of this must happen, while the current thread blocks the
main thread.
Likely, this cannot be done automatically, so we need a function
`set-keyboard-thread' (similar to `set-process-thread'), which is called
for scenarios as described. And since the keyboard must be reset to the
main thread, maybe a macro like this is needed:
(defun with-blocked-keyboard (&rest body)
`(block-other-threads ;; maybe via a mutex??
(set-keyboard-thread (current-thread))
,@body
(set-keyboard-thread main-thread)))
It is the fiddling with pselect and the keyboard file descriptors, which
I'm not able to handle.
> Thanks.
Best regards, Michael.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25214; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Sep 2018 16:20:55 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 27 12:20:55 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56822 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1g5Z26-0004ir-TM for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 12:20:55 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39496) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1g5Z24-0004ic-Ox for 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 12:20:53 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1g5Z1v-0006om-Cv for 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 12:20:47 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:52516) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1g5Z1d-0006be-7j; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 12:20:25 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1115 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1g5Z1b-0003Xq-MV; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 12:20:25 -0400 Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 19:20:02 +0300 Message-Id: <83o9ci7w0d.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <87o9ciapdf.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Michael Albinus on Thu, 27 Sep 2018 18:15:08 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#25214: 26.0.50; Interacting with user from threads other than the primary References: <837f6z9a4x.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zhwguskw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83fty8ge50.fsf@HIDDEN> <83efdsgcqv.fsf@HIDDEN> <875zz3mcnu.fsf@HIDDEN> <834lengq5f.fsf@HIDDEN> <87o9ciapdf.fsf@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25214 Cc: 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, tom@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> > Cc: 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, tom@HIDDEN > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 18:15:08 +0200 > > >> > One simple idea is not to interrupt a pselect call, but instead to > >> > make sure the main thread never waits for too long for pselect to > >> > return. We could arrange for acquire_global_lock to maintain a count > >> > of the number of threads that are waiting to take the lock, and if > >> > that number is positive, reduce the timeout we pass to pselect such > >> > that it never waits for more than, say, 1 sec. Then we need a way for > >> > a non-main thread to wait until the main thread returns from pselect, > >> > at which time the non-main thread could proceed with its own attempt > >> > to read input, while the main thread is stuck waiting for the global > >> > lock. > >> > >> I'll see whether I could implement something along this idea. But I'm > >> still learning Emacs' keyboard (more general: FD) handling, so it will > >> take time. > > > > It might help to search for timeout_reduced_for_timers in process.c: > > that's how we implement a similar logic when timers are waiting to > > run. > > I've played for a while with the keyboard related code, and I must > confess I'm too dumb for this. Sorry, but it is too much, and I have the > feeling I cannot contribute something useful in this area. So I let this > to be fixed by somebody else. This is a pity, because it blocks further > progress in merging the branch feature/tramp-thread-safe into master. Can you describe what exactly would you like someone else to implement? IOW, what minimal change will allow you to continue your work in this direction? Thanks.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25214; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Sep 2018 16:15:33 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 27 12:15:33 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56806 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1g5Ywv-0004a1-9g for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 12:15:33 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:55171) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>) id 1g5Ywt-0004Zm-J1 for 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 12:15:32 -0400 Received: from detlef.gmx.de ([79.140.120.188]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx103 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LgZ7h-1fQmks3S1V-00nzwM; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 18:15:12 +0200 Received: from detlef.gmx.de ([79.140.120.188]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx103 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LgZ7h-1fQmks3S1V-00nzwM; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 18:15:12 +0200 From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#25214: 26.0.50; Interacting with user from threads other than the primary References: <837f6z9a4x.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zhwguskw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83fty8ge50.fsf@HIDDEN> <83efdsgcqv.fsf@HIDDEN> <875zz3mcnu.fsf@HIDDEN> <834lengq5f.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 18:15:08 +0200 In-Reply-To: <834lengq5f.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 18 Sep 2018 11:34:36 +0300") Message-ID: <87o9ciapdf.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:gyjZUTZ1MytKsVfA4dDMyCQba5uiOu+5yEbSCBG1ctaqsWD5qwT 69wA0iYBs96WQlL+9/Iq4WG8/xXtsg/2MXj8C7+qeMf0ghE25+IdsMdf2Arh0Rd1gjYRmpn jBfRKOuoWYL9ewRKF0RcB3dIGwUEgp5O8mc03+TTzeMzvEHEEGT1eOsVRBP3h92Tm+feMPP 7/F9XGcpjNv2dDDVI2zwQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:4+DBCPlpc0Q=:qxK947ZS0wWNa+/3DyG6p0 li5Hih9FxOlTP1WaEfjDwTw0YbyER4DMb879N4KsNkNfZwn1+dIQz6uVS7L6hIvxlbONRbypy HVdIhogtnE7IX/HqENoSUCCcYUJf2nTDyyKWqkularBA+rv8NuO2biESqM6Tn8HaBP+NhIdzS o/egVJV1Eo07f4LVszhASvVioug/bhsn1Q3lG0GThpwf0M9UomqPDGKmjRvzKUrM5ocTWIr2f XFMIyTxqhknLbo8JZV1HXVqMACyrcumjnKBrbqi1s0fGG5rRBtda4zkEfJd8zkea13CK4xn7F 3qsIeci8TJWygRgOcJEDSfhmHl5TSPbxnPvGjCcmzweV69D+5KxW0JWiOirTrsKe2gp7gtvOy ZzY4BLigF03+YwsG3AfUvTcO/4UwL2fWTA6owi7EBf6WhZbyfG7o/W1nMLX6vYEUWrddg5UXx gQyv2JoxF4lXh0BrP4frtG5K7+QK4r+dUubYpkzly2i9NEqyVoRpEnZACtH8RV2Dk0VxAxd7V 9tNyz9sohd/bScOvLLgb78KKKkpaLC3zK45U0l8B8gmjJ5aZLgJ23JVoeoqQ+PkV5ke4MPAMx WqSt+gWEr6zEhDn2vYNATRlkJASfqnZrXn3nuBrMECPxTtiFwfrls+8sYW1oRPTguKeEthpv+ dr0gvKQvh46GzteimkVO6fPTht1yGYVVzXq1trtmWmtjoMsjA3tTPj7r0oIDqHq44zCdF3oZU bqsNtKnyH+p/CJjO0K2yMhVWgUA3iVy8VVyNGa9WybA+bdERwAemAQvUKxiZuWYqnjB3fVFWJ UJ8n6vOypIm/m/PMl5sk3OuK0xkq/8Y2JiTHTqgDJg0+CpRz/A= X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25214 Cc: 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, tom@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: Hi Eli, >> > One simple idea is not to interrupt a pselect call, but instead to >> > make sure the main thread never waits for too long for pselect to >> > return. We could arrange for acquire_global_lock to maintain a count >> > of the number of threads that are waiting to take the lock, and if >> > that number is positive, reduce the timeout we pass to pselect such >> > that it never waits for more than, say, 1 sec. Then we need a way for >> > a non-main thread to wait until the main thread returns from pselect, >> > at which time the non-main thread could proceed with its own attempt >> > to read input, while the main thread is stuck waiting for the global >> > lock. >> >> I'll see whether I could implement something along this idea. But I'm >> still learning Emacs' keyboard (more general: FD) handling, so it will >> take time. > > It might help to search for timeout_reduced_for_timers in process.c: > that's how we implement a similar logic when timers are waiting to > run. I've played for a while with the keyboard related code, and I must confess I'm too dumb for this. Sorry, but it is too much, and I have the feeling I cannot contribute something useful in this area. So I let this to be fixed by somebody else. This is a pity, because it blocks further progress in merging the branch feature/tramp-thread-safe into master. For the time being I concentrate on tasks I feel better suited, like adding thread support for further file operations. Best regards, Michael.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25214; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Sep 2018 12:34:18 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 18 08:34:18 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43770 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1g2FCr-0000Et-Qb for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 08:34:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60201) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1g2FCq-0000Ei-RL for 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 08:34:17 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1g2FCk-0002IV-Mc for 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 08:34:11 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:43895) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1g2FCK-0001fE-Us; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 08:33:48 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4247 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1g2FCJ-00040P-49; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 08:33:44 -0400 Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 15:33:32 +0300 Message-Id: <83sh27f0ir.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <87a7ofmd0w.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Michael Albinus on Tue, 18 Sep 2018 10:21:35 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#25214: 26.0.50; Interacting with user from threads other than the primary References: <837f6z9a4x.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zhwguskw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83fty8ge50.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a7ofmd0w.fsf@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25214 Cc: 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, tom@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> > Cc: 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, tom@HIDDEN > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 10:21:35 +0200 > > > (I'm not sure I understand why you thought we'd need bullet #2, btw. > > Once we interrupt the pselect call, the main thread should become > > stuck trying to take the global lock, so I don't think we need any > > trickery here, because the other thread, which is running, will have > > arranged for it to be the current thread.) > > Shouldn't there be several read_char calls in parallel? Bullet #2 is > just a machinery to switch to the main thread, that's all. If we could > manipulate the main thread from inside current thread, we wouldn't need this. I think we arrived at the conclusion that simultaneous calls to read_char should be avoided.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25214; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Sep 2018 08:35:16 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 18 04:35:16 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43606 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1g2BTY-0000Ej-EP for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 04:35:16 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51960) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1g2BTW-0000EW-F6 for 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 04:35:14 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1g2BTK-0005xc-21 for 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 04:35:08 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:39858) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1g2BSz-0005VT-UR; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 04:34:43 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1266 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1g2BSz-0004vk-4q; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 04:34:41 -0400 Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 11:34:36 +0300 Message-Id: <834lengq5f.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <875zz3mcnu.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Michael Albinus on Tue, 18 Sep 2018 10:29:25 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#25214: 26.0.50; Interacting with user from threads other than the primary References: <837f6z9a4x.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zhwguskw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83fty8ge50.fsf@HIDDEN> <83efdsgcqv.fsf@HIDDEN> <875zz3mcnu.fsf@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25214 Cc: 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, tom@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> > Cc: 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, tom@HIDDEN > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 10:29:25 +0200 > > > One simple idea is not to interrupt a pselect call, but instead to > > make sure the main thread never waits for too long for pselect to > > return. We could arrange for acquire_global_lock to maintain a count > > of the number of threads that are waiting to take the lock, and if > > that number is positive, reduce the timeout we pass to pselect such > > that it never waits for more than, say, 1 sec. Then we need a way for > > a non-main thread to wait until the main thread returns from pselect, > > at which time the non-main thread could proceed with its own attempt > > to read input, while the main thread is stuck waiting for the global > > lock. > > I'll see whether I could implement something along this idea. But I'm > still learning Emacs' keyboard (more general: FD) handling, so it will > take time. It might help to search for timeout_reduced_for_timers in process.c: that's how we implement a similar logic when timers are waiting to run.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25214; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Sep 2018 08:29:51 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 18 04:29:51 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43602 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1g2BOI-0008WM-N9 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 04:29:50 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:45693) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>) id 1g2BOH-0008W4-BM for 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 04:29:49 -0400 Received: from detlef.gmx.de ([212.86.62.20]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx102 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MWhRH-1gIQeB2uB1-00XxNB; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 10:29:28 +0200 From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#25214: 26.0.50; Interacting with user from threads other than the primary References: <837f6z9a4x.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zhwguskw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83fty8ge50.fsf@HIDDEN> <83efdsgcqv.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 10:29:25 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83efdsgcqv.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 17 Sep 2018 22:11:52 +0300") Message-ID: <875zz3mcnu.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:m5am4uy0NPKesgu/4C3GDz/5JzIkWYj5XYoUYWCsPLgTN7h2Cm+ 4cmEACnH/+B5eyhpdKYAfcMaZFDVyPKeKfKDCqc/nAarLAAR4zVeGEuBEsMLCsyQA1H42rg 3vPJZZQcFve1FgWrodEy1iGttUnCLO4KkHV6oh6/HAnguouKmKv+stly6cC7D0WazlyTYpl wIQZjS/WemX+WhYcQnnQA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:W/efz1QkSYM=:BOlNX+iDRw9mDcQOeF6Qd2 kwzoWw7/Fl4hGj1t/CWeoPm32/P61IUlUU2ire0yG5m1AorAIf1ke5eaE4MGBZ5I+EGGhe9Zw 3gmpuysFnMTjiVRUvuFA6npTCZVlah7kf3QJNHZFFdTnc05yox4HMuJyTdJelpeEKL17hr5wI HwHdnDoXCHBxAzoWgrOA868+4w4fogAkRX1hEoAdwjMF7/Cb/Y2IReM1Oyl8G2DDZi6JZG/l2 MTKIqtuTtXFmroGRAOk75NeKKZNe0N236HhcNgfyrUiWXDkdqjfErwf+Ig6Q8hzqfoEfiIsrq tb7qtHBJ1yrhsfIwPIQHnCnf1XpD5RFCdTVtrefOmriL2HUMWtMcYbI7WAhZMYvew6PL1lH5N gtacMnk+sbn4rCQ9l8VK/BHqqBCeViu7NMG7ExDN/uwEImumXYIWnODapkm8eVVv59iKf5HZw Y4S1HZBV2VDKsPVrxlP41QJtaHhdGPk7iWzkzXsbGVw6Zy+lcmYZh5RNPr8PCFaEzdNUUevRb 0TaI6owmm3haKv4zjL8PJH90i1oeI4Gb2iwXL5FN3aUaGRWVtw88lSqHXaZcpBBaPqIH/e18D rAg7WsrUNEIumhF5JYCpRLqLJONleCAPFv2F65ElwIyaUlxcejPjjv6wJZhQjqnfGED1PQ9cB T4vxdEJ1XUkUr4AFG9ipjy6vnmZhCMYYu74SLf6ulZbT+JFvjeDWlrLO5yCs5Pr4Ofr3/Iz6y AdZjfZz5Rhxm3stB4Z2j01z8hP41VK8q7kdLnBK9xSGNGxYW9BTG4TpFYPRQ+nHSZxIKw9Use jxccmlB8gHsVNq+dfhtDivsNI4dPVhc9x0mU5kIzu7SxUP6NK8= X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25214 Cc: 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, tom@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> So what means do we have to interrupt a pselect call from another >> thread? > > One simple idea is not to interrupt a pselect call, but instead to > make sure the main thread never waits for too long for pselect to > return. We could arrange for acquire_global_lock to maintain a count > of the number of threads that are waiting to take the lock, and if > that number is positive, reduce the timeout we pass to pselect such > that it never waits for more than, say, 1 sec. Then we need a way for > a non-main thread to wait until the main thread returns from pselect, > at which time the non-main thread could proceed with its own attempt > to read input, while the main thread is stuck waiting for the global > lock. I'll see whether I could implement something along this idea. But I'm still learning Emacs' keyboard (more general: FD) handling, so it will take time. For waiting of the non-main thread: maybe a mutex and/or condition variable could do the job. Best regards, Michael.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25214; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Sep 2018 08:21:59 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 18 04:21:59 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43596 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1g2BGg-0008Jt-QY for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 04:21:59 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:60989) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>) id 1g2BGe-0008Je-LU for 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 04:21:57 -0400 Received: from detlef.gmx.de ([212.86.62.20]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx001 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MGS9o-1fxjHt1MK8-00DFuC; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 10:21:37 +0200 From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#25214: 26.0.50; Interacting with user from threads other than the primary References: <837f6z9a4x.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zhwguskw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83fty8ge50.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 10:21:35 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83fty8ge50.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 17 Sep 2018 21:41:47 +0300") Message-ID: <87a7ofmd0w.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:s+zDSfKKFGp4frEC80kud6llM3MdKiL71JKHQvMPngia2X1hzNh kJ5+Hj3Q3UD2Ix1euxov5yYoWMgGvUB+QeSoh7GYLK4kxzQzxRQ2AKS7QQSeEKtH2pyBiqE Fv5m3x7bdBn+jHkgMtRm39PFipve04iiZSDZ+akkj3jsFt9f9MB2LN9XAoy3u8vgSbokf3B ZlOETV03t8j2auzkX8c3Q== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:sqWgCmU6YJE=:DS17RLyY3+G/XpmWCOe7tF zVJZMJjAH+o/LomWzSfVUq0sGTAh3OBvNv280q+Va72nO/uS/MBJas8K8aMGPF/YLbE0q7ooD puXLezRtiiozICcyYhosTQpRfnVSU04Wrm46d7XLl8UPNa46NBM58FpWV8xMuieJPuJD55IMd N8s2zKOuxGE5mY50thDpzpBq8CcF1vxFIoIzh6yb3RB2xczIw4nwXr1wt4ua7HhZv3GwhLYFP Uo35DbZo7L2ntVRgm+hZHP2+FUaIr90TwLNvdWED87DXr8tRS8Uj2euHrcqBPSSpoqw6j2my9 Log5xk00wAMTJcJ4WmZ/rss9aCKmagb0iHZ/M3LmNF1KpGEDRkMFeWqX7Yr+cvlHBXV2yRjaE jpjD9r6P6FztZP0Iqn7JZg++bruMWyp/S6J5Xb9aDL4NW2KPSId1DTGdpfTHX1rdgOqrYrUIx ozKojBR3/t5m+u1DD0m6mD7v6pKvnB7CbEYkz5sof70Qlyf6q1N0JlQoowysvqDLemFnaaPZ9 HkLapsNqmzZisM2aAAguysHO3dpqjGaweUdQR2tsCB0+WxiTJ2aCbtn5amAVdw5/E8zvw7o3o UQ3uWhwFmDSj2+dbu5QIiXD/5cuAMlRDQTvDRJpvv9/WpDO1Os09hThY5HLUZxUpuvQixkz1P FYlIA3ZDZ4VAxWwOCZVth8Jv6EaLjmbpzFe+nP+4E1QdoAXWB60m4XOQGm3krR40KEoEOqxsI MoG60fI3MF0BzXUF8Qw1FbPc8BzJN12otKxV3QeVWmgpK0jPTYaLsuCBurlGvKI+6hhUrk211 I6gg7tUMADlZEKo7aUGbmmYyIa7IbsizSGEE4KHjFUiTbiLGhk= X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25214 Cc: 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, tom@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: Hi Eli, >> In order to fix the problem of reading input in a non-primary thread, we >> need a new function which request I/O control to the current thread. It >> needs >> >> * to request control for the keyboard. This could be indicated by a >> signal to the main thread, which is *not* an error signal but a >> special one, let's call it `thread-set-keyboard'. >> >> * to handle this signal in `thread-handle-event', by calling a >> respective function (let's call it `thread--set-keyboard'). This >> function sets the struct event thread to the thread which has >> delivered by the `thread-set-keyboard' signal. Next time fd_mask is >> prepared, the keyboard fd would be taken into account for the >> requesting thread. >> >> * to stop/recall the recent pselect for the main thread in order to free >> the keyboard fd. Don't know how to do this. >> >> * to provide a mechanism which resets the thread struct field of the >> keyboard fd to NULL, in order to let the main thread use the >> keyboard. Here I have also no idea how to do this. > > It's not all we need (remember all that talk about serializing access > to the echo area?), but it's a beginning. Exactly. > And the crucial piece is bullet #3, because thread-signal will not > interrupt the pselect call. And if we are not too lucky, the pselect > call could have been made with a long timeout. So this is the first > obstacle to negotiate. Yes. There is quit_throw_to_read_char, but this would quit the (main) thread, which is not what we want. > So what means do we have to interrupt a pselect call from another > thread? > > (I'm not sure I understand why you thought we'd need bullet #2, btw. > Once we interrupt the pselect call, the main thread should become > stuck trying to take the global lock, so I don't think we need any > trickery here, because the other thread, which is running, will have > arranged for it to be the current thread.) Shouldn't there be several read_char calls in parallel? Bullet #2 is just a machinery to switch to the main thread, that's all. If we could manipulate the main thread from inside current thread, we wouldn't need this. > Thanks. Best regards, Michael.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25214; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Sep 2018 19:12:29 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 17 15:12:29 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43368 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1g1ywd-00052h-6O for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 15:12:27 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57388) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1g1ywc-00052W-37 for 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 15:12:26 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1g1ywS-0007E1-11 for 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 15:12:20 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:56125) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1g1yw9-0006Z2-6w; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 15:11:58 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2309 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1g1yw8-0004rb-NH; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 15:11:57 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 22:11:52 +0300 Message-Id: <83efdsgcqv.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: michael.albinus@HIDDEN In-reply-to: <83fty8ge50.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Mon, 17 Sep 2018 21:41:47 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#25214: 26.0.50; Interacting with user from threads other than the primary References: <837f6z9a4x.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zhwguskw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83fty8ge50.fsf@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25214 Cc: 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, tom@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 21:41:47 +0300 > From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> > Cc: 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, tom@HIDDEN > > So what means do we have to interrupt a pselect call from another > thread? One simple idea is not to interrupt a pselect call, but instead to make sure the main thread never waits for too long for pselect to return. We could arrange for acquire_global_lock to maintain a count of the number of threads that are waiting to take the lock, and if that number is positive, reduce the timeout we pass to pselect such that it never waits for more than, say, 1 sec. Then we need a way for a non-main thread to wait until the main thread returns from pselect, at which time the non-main thread could proceed with its own attempt to read input, while the main thread is stuck waiting for the global lock.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25214; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Sep 2018 18:42:28 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 17 14:42:28 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43352 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1g1yTb-0004DG-UB for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 14:42:28 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:46744) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1g1yTa-0004D0-Hg for 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 14:42:26 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1g1yTR-0003Vz-3q for 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 14:42:21 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:55544) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1g1yTA-0003Dr-Kz; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 14:42:00 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4309 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1g1yT8-0005CE-Tk; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 14:42:00 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 21:41:47 +0300 Message-Id: <83fty8ge50.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <87zhwguskw.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Michael Albinus on Mon, 17 Sep 2018 16:06:07 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#25214: 26.0.50; Interacting with user from threads other than the primary References: <837f6z9a4x.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zhwguskw.fsf@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25214 Cc: 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, tom@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> > Cc: 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Tom Tromey <tom@HIDDEN> > Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 16:06:07 +0200 > > The fd mask is controlled by fd_callback_info, an array (indexed by > fd's) over the struct fd_callback_data. There are two relevant struct > fields: thread and waiting_thread. thread is set in Fset_process_thread > for the infd and outfd file descriptors of the process, it shall be NULL > in the example given above. > > waiting_thread is always set to current_thread, in the > compute_input_wait_mask, compute_non_process_wait_mask, > compute_non_keyboard_wait_mask and compute_write_mask functions. The > condition is always, that waiting_thread is either NULL or > current_thread. > > A file descriptor, be it for the keyboard or process related or > whatever, is only taken into account during setting an fd_mask, when > either both thread and waiting_thread are NULL, or when one of the > struct fields is set to a thread, being equal to the current > thread. IIUC, thead has precedence over waiting_thread, but this might > be an implementation detail only. So far, it is expected that at least > one of the fields is NULL. That is correct, AFAIR. > In order to fix the problem of reading input in a non-primary thread, we > need a new function which request I/O control to the current thread. It > needs > > * to request control for the keyboard. This could be indicated by a > signal to the main thread, which is *not* an error signal but a > special one, let's call it `thread-set-keyboard'. > > * to handle this signal in `thread-handle-event', by calling a > respective function (let's call it `thread--set-keyboard'). This > function sets the struct event thread to the thread which has > delivered by the `thread-set-keyboard' signal. Next time fd_mask is > prepared, the keyboard fd would be taken into account for the > requesting thread. > > * to stop/recall the recent pselect for the main thread in order to free > the keyboard fd. Don't know how to do this. > > * to provide a mechanism which resets the thread struct field of the > keyboard fd to NULL, in order to let the main thread use the > keyboard. Here I have also no idea how to do this. It's not all we need (remember all that talk about serializing access to the echo area?), but it's a beginning. And the crucial piece is bullet #3, because thread-signal will not interrupt the pselect call. And if we are not too lucky, the pselect call could have been made with a long timeout. So this is the first obstacle to negotiate. So what means do we have to interrupt a pselect call from another thread? (I'm not sure I understand why you thought we'd need bullet #2, btw. Once we interrupt the pselect call, the main thread should become stuck trying to take the global lock, so I don't think we need any trickery here, because the other thread, which is running, will have arranged for it to be the current thread.) Thanks.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25214; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25214) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Sep 2018 14:06:32 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 17 10:06:32 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43219 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1g1uAa-00058n-0H for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 10:06:32 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:45153) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>) id 1g1uAY-00058Z-Gp for 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 10:06:30 -0400 Received: from detlef.gmx.de ([212.91.249.153]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx003 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lbujs-1faEKM2vFk-00jGsu; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 16:06:10 +0200 From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#25214: 26.0.50; Interacting with user from threads other than the primary References: <837f6z9a4x.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 16:06:07 +0200 Message-ID: <87zhwguskw.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:kYQmBzU7L7nXQZso0ZOMtVo3TpwxamKt1MpBoGmZlo+myjyfUjM mIPxmq329VflDRiNvbfK7fkw5ECc6/5jH/fHQcRy9i9zOdMZICctcfyq2RXFyzFVjWmqrwO btbNXCAsdCvHZKZqFPQX2gEmZR7qdz2pbbgc1H4C3ToJgW5gjUT8JSox6mjDtKirUYKOg0j uMfdCh3oKzEALEuZFt7qA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:rOQtXO6KPPI=:vTobkOKrtGZkAQfhcILGip 4COc0vvHK9WHuwvwlo/4hiEleHRDbYnbLECUHT4+E1TtKj0Ez3kcXKqpLfEh8tas1GFdILpEx m4YFeQQhTFAKe9ocTsiTKTofin4WXA9asifuMETj/fyR8YYmxGGMulgssBYAk6AOx7NKbmuj1 FRZx16CWe01Ce+i5ilUcGnBmZTqJLCS5shAJei1oBabvTcJLTgBYgsxewtHK9mjB2hl6JGNSx Aspg9b+/dF3kcyKr8yu83PXYuUtsZwwf6mgXJaXHdDrGOdVsV4sowUB+6YpCgRvYYHXGZRNDp QkVDDikpUV8syG06BBa9y9isVNto63q24vJ57i7DYQ7i5S5fnwPeaF4Mf2OqBVEmLnRsXFPLz UegxYurOkID1iEFDmRBLbEE4wJbWrZ3vSCuuzjo3+W2hg0A6vBoUFVhVLcZ0UtBrA7gFbLk/e 5L+locxLTsg+A8cRm1TSXvB0o4eQIu3nMcJpqI/eOaNynEJ0hsvpjBvzIZgEBZuAOYj1eD/0O 1HzRRGh8W9rjFDyBVHqmXYowJ7E4PjaeQY7BToa1NrYC8xuaLs107cdCmG997XF/jSjqmn/ps +Zu+Izdbxef+jI2eJUXX7qbVlg+qYKF83zCjsXVqBMm3ze1npwjZNdb3xM//hizRmXeDgGttT RtmCiVx2l0XKiN9uIeHmvFXozFHQhE5NcYgAoY2OH2Yfmmsdt7pk/ZtoPfs3VJG/q7A/6Vrtz v/5k5k/vuW+4DXWpHyFqwSLss/h8jhAIZdL3n+jmev/HLkge3jGh/IGGh69cqh6gArhkqwgXw 5OGal8GmWD1L+XY1gzaREgUWW2dganVlv7Y1jSGEDR0HApvPTw= X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25214 Cc: 25214 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Tom Tromey <tom@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > Here's some fun with threads: > > emacs -Q > > Evaluate: > > (defun my-question () > (let (use-dialog-box) ;; in case this is a GUI frame > (if (y-or-n-p "Yes or no? ") > (message "You said YES") > (message "You said NO")))) > > Now evaluate this: > > (make-thread #'my-question "question") > > You again get the question asked in the minibuffer, but typing > anything at the prompt causes Emacs to complain that whatever you > typed is "undefined". Your only fire escape is to close this session > with some mouse gesture, or kill it. > > What happens here is that, by the time the new thread runs, the main > (a.k.a. "primary") thread is already idle, i.e. it already called > read_char, which called wait_reading_process_output, which called > thread_select. (In fact, it's _because_ the primary thread called > thread_select that the new thread was allowed to run at all, since it > has to acquire the global lock for that, and that is only possible > when the running thread releases the lock inside thread_select.) Now, > when wait_reading_process_output calls thread_select, it prepares the > mask for file descriptors it will wait for to become ready for > reading, in this case there's only one descriptor: the keyboard > descriptor. So the primary thread is waiting for input from the > keyboard. > > Now the new thread starts running and eventually calls y-or-n-p, which > calls read_char, which calls wait_reading_process_output. But when > this call prepares the mask for the thread_select call, it skips the > keyboard descriptor, because we only allow a single thread to wait on > each descriptor, and the keyboard descriptor is already watched by the > primary thread. So the new thread ends up not waiting on the keyboard > input descriptor. > > The thread_select call then switches back to the primary thread, and > the primary thread receives the Y or N character you type. But it > doesn't know what to do with it, so it becomes confused. > > IOW, user interaction from non-primary threads is currently inherently > unsafe. IOW, user interaction from non-primary threads is currently inherently impossible. I've tried to understand the mechanism in process.c, and I summarize it (mainly for my understanding, but also to give you a chance to correct me). The fd mask is controlled by fd_callback_info, an array (indexed by fd's) over the struct fd_callback_data. There are two relevant struct fields: thread and waiting_thread. thread is set in Fset_process_thread for the infd and outfd file descriptors of the process, it shall be NULL in the example given above. waiting_thread is always set to current_thread, in the compute_input_wait_mask, compute_non_process_wait_mask, compute_non_keyboard_wait_mask and compute_write_mask functions. The condition is always, that waiting_thread is either NULL or current_thread. A file descriptor, be it for the keyboard or process related or whatever, is only taken into account during setting an fd_mask, when either both thread and waiting_thread are NULL, or when one of the struct fields is set to a thread, being equal to the current thread. IIUC, thead has precedence over waiting_thread, but this might be an implementation detail only. So far, it is expected that at least one of the fields is NULL. In order to fix the problem of reading input in a non-primary thread, we need a new function which request I/O control to the current thread. It needs * to request control for the keyboard. This could be indicated by a signal to the main thread, which is *not* an error signal but a special one, let's call it `thread-set-keyboard'. * to handle this signal in `thread-handle-event', by calling a respective function (let's call it `thread--set-keyboard'). This function sets the struct event thread to the thread which has delivered by the `thread-set-keyboard' signal. Next time fd_mask is prepared, the keyboard fd would be taken into account for the requesting thread. * to stop/recall the recent pselect for the main thread in order to free the keyboard fd. Don't know how to do this. * to provide a mechanism which resets the thread struct field of the keyboard fd to NULL, in order to let the main thread use the keyboard. Here I have also no idea how to do this. > And then, of course, there's the use case where two threads ask the > user something via the minibuffer. This scenario shall also be possible then. > Thoughts? Here I am :-) Best regards, Michael.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25214; Package emacs.
Full text available.Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Dec 2016 04:31:52 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 18 23:31:52 2016 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46704 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1cIpc7-0005Ro-Jz for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Dec 2016 23:31:52 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50168) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <clement.pit@HIDDEN>) id 1cIpc5-0005RX-HN for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Dec 2016 23:31:49 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <clement.pit@HIDDEN>) id 1cIpby-0001XT-Uy for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Dec 2016 23:31:44 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:54194) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <clement.pit@HIDDEN>) id 1cIpby-0001XP-RV for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Dec 2016 23:31:42 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41139) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <clement.pit@HIDDEN>) id 1cIpbw-0006dw-Kx for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Sun, 18 Dec 2016 23:31:42 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <clement.pit@HIDDEN>) id 1cIpbt-0001Ux-EM for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Sun, 18 Dec 2016 23:31:40 -0500 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([217.72.192.74]:58126) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <clement.pit@HIDDEN>) id 1cIpbt-0001UF-46 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Sun, 18 Dec 2016 23:31:37 -0500 Received: from [18.189.127.106] ([18.189.127.106]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue102 [212.227.15.184]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lm4KP-1crtNW0UbJ-00ZdRP for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Mon, 19 Dec 2016 05:31:35 +0100 Subject: Re: bug#25214: 26.0.50; Interacting with user from threads other than the primary To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN References: <837f6z9a4x.fsf@HIDDEN> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= <clement.pit@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <4ab8f369-393d-3c72-9abf-d68d6880151b@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2016 23:31:28 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; 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boundary="P1CDDCW2e9ga49k3VrVD5uaa7BjXeA6iS"; protected-headers="v1" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= <clement.pit@HIDDEN> To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Message-ID: <4ab8f369-393d-3c72-9abf-d68d6880151b@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#25214: 26.0.50; Interacting with user from threads other than the primary References: <837f6z9a4x.fsf@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <837f6z9a4x.fsf@HIDDEN> --P1CDDCW2e9ga49k3VrVD5uaa7BjXeA6iS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Eli, > Thoughts? I don't have that much concurrency experience, but this sounds like an is= sue that other languages have had to deal with in the context of GUIs. I= n Microsoft's Windows Forms, for example, applications start with a singl= e thread (the UI thread) running a message pump, and other threads that w= ant to interact with the user may do so only by posting a message (using = Control.Invoke) to the UI thread. If I understand your description of the problem correctly, what happens i= s essentially that the main thread and the background thread are competin= g for keyboard access. If so, could the solution be to route all UI requ= ests through the main thread? Concretely, this would mean that in the co= ntext of a secondary thread, calling "read-from-minibuffer" really means = pushing a message (tagged with a thread id) into a queue of "pending-read= s-from-minibuffer", then repeatedly `thread-yield`ing until the UI thread= has pushed the user's response into a map of "processed-reads-from-minib= uffer". The user's response would be collected by the main thread. Alternatively, could we simply disallow this type of interaction until we= have a good story about it? That would bring us closer to the way web wo= rkers work in Javascript (they need to post a message to interact with th= e UI/DOM). Cheers, Cl=E9ment. On 2016-12-16 10:17, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Here's some fun with threads: >=20 > emacs -Q >=20 > Evaluate: >=20 > (defun my-question () > (let (use-dialog-box) ;; in case this is a GUI frame > (if (y-or-n-p "Yes or no? ") > (message "You said YES") > (message "You said NO")))) >=20 > Evaluate: >=20 > (my-question) >=20 > You get a question asked in the minibuffer, answer it with Y or N, and > get the corresponding echo. All's well. >=20 > Now evaluate this: >=20 > (make-thread #'my-question "question") >=20 > You again get the question asked in the minibuffer, but typing > anything at the prompt causes Emacs to complain that whatever you > typed is "undefined". Your only fire escape is to close this session > with some mouse gesture, or kill it. >=20 > What happens here is that, by the time the new thread runs, the main > (a.k.a. "primary") thread is already idle, i.e. it already called > read_char, which called wait_reading_process_output, which called > thread_select. (In fact, it's _because_ the primary thread called > thread_select that the new thread was allowed to run at all, since it > has to acquire the global lock for that, and that is only possible > when the running thread releases the lock inside thread_select.) Now, > when wait_reading_process_output calls thread_select, it prepares the > mask for file descriptors it will wait for to become ready for > reading, in this case there's only one descriptor: the keyboard > descriptor. So the primary thread is waiting for input from the > keyboard. >=20 > Now the new thread starts running and eventually calls y-or-n-p, which > calls read_char, which calls wait_reading_process_output. But when > this call prepares the mask for the thread_select call, it skips the > keyboard descriptor, because we only allow a single thread to wait on > each descriptor, and the keyboard descriptor is already watched by the > primary thread. So the new thread ends up not waiting on the keyboard > input descriptor. >=20 > The thread_select call then switches back to the primary thread, and > the primary thread receives the Y or N character you type. But it > doesn't know what to do with it, so it becomes confused. >=20 > IOW, user interaction from non-primary threads is currently inherently > unsafe. >=20 > And then, of course, there's the use case where two threads ask the > user something via the minibuffer. >=20 > Thoughts? >=20 >=20 >=20 > In GNU Emacs 26.0.50.118 (i686-pc-mingw32) > of 2016-12-16 built on HOME-C4E4A596F7 > Repository revision: fb2fdb1435d2520c1cbf2a3d6a53128512a38458 > Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 > Recent messages: > For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a. >=20 > Configured using: > 'configure --prefix=3D/d/usr --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs --with-wid= e-int > --with-modules 'CFLAGS=3D-O0 -gdwarf-4 -g3'' >=20 > Configured features: > XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND NOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 ZLIB > TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS MODULES >=20 > Important settings: > value of $LANG: ENU > locale-coding-system: cp1255 >=20 > Major mode: Lisp Interaction >=20 > Minor modes in effect: > tooltip-mode: t > global-eldoc-mode: t > electric-indent-mode: t > mouse-wheel-mode: t > tool-bar-mode: t > menu-bar-mode: t > file-name-shadow-mode: t > global-font-lock-mode: t > font-lock-mode: t > blink-cursor-mode: t > auto-composition-mode: t > auto-encryption-mode: t > auto-compression-mode: t > line-number-mode: t > transient-mark-mode: t >=20 > Load-path shadows: > None found. >=20 > Features: > (shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message subr-x puny seq byte-opt gv > bytecomp byte-compile cl-extra help-mode cconv cl-loaddefs pcase cl-lib= > dired dired-loaddefs format-spec rfc822 mml easymenu mml-sec > password-cache epa derived epg epg-config gnus-util rmail rmail-loaddef= s > mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils > mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr > mail-utils time-date mule-util tooltip eldoc electric uniquify > ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel dos-w32 ls-lisp disp-table > term/w32-win w32-win w32-vars term/common-win tool-bar dnd fontset imag= e > regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode elisp-mod= e > lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch timer > select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core > term/tty-colors frame cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang > vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 > hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic > chinese composite charscript case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help > simple abbrev obarray minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs button > faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 > format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable > backquote w32notify w32 multi-tty make-network-process emacs) >=20 > Memory information: > ((conses 16 102990 12105) > (symbols 56 21101 0) > (miscs 48 36 129) > (strings 16 21030 4737) > (string-bytes 1 593607) > (vectors 16 14398) > (vector-slots 8 444812 4412) > (floats 8 179 129) > (intervals 40 269 104) > (buffers 864 11)) >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 --P1CDDCW2e9ga49k3VrVD5uaa7BjXeA6iS-- --t0Fj4ohbQ3HTGkthfNTJG902RKKwi1mjV Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJYV2KlAAoJEPqg+cTm90wjc6IQAJM8Im7ioxuNgHSgR1MaDFJn uSZ1Rz/2qxPH1S+6RWPnci10r2eCcTmyOGJDSB0urYzQj+Drns5c/6I440J4NVAe 8hbebqnsDNCmeShnqtjzkBDc5FWQkGBS50VgCePLFWKdOL8vPSe+dKe/DcE00Jvg WtwlWiYb8QLhD3itLAjoNxgqf17ReWf7Al2CRz6jy9P8UfvMjwyHij8zfep0oAap nWcXwG5XYolx73hEFmd7p7KVYPVZduI1d+pDMwUCa/U5UqJjGymHKldwUNAAfmfj E52e2xJ22Uo1lefUmUQKZFyi73ZeToOI0A+bhdBl+gwnjMyC9o950/K5w1nezrrz N+hey44O+LApjD8IjbWobc9WHHLKBpplYfCc6p1nNS8NNyWwDwTIkxFNjDG2o8CZ T+9QCte97ikDhmvwDHtZeugrOvD1XUfJjUNUkKrqIeK5CbF/HGKXIEiG3UyJ7tiS OF89pbIkPYG0KznwCmCRyfHT8i8zPvDTMarMSuOXtZ0i0p1ELZqQvfLzluMKIUMf KZByN3IrfjMwd+hHpvuOUj0EscAM4Tm97OkxWmj4xDEBNild2L/IFG7N9CQq5bhy RU5DnjRofGYdo0/mQlZrM5xV7+hftRzfG6RJ8cmuQrDqh0Xnka8NZ0/fHUw7CJku yDo3dAv0vInoI1e36iFx =xRZM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --t0Fj4ohbQ3HTGkthfNTJG902RKKwi1mjV--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25214; Package emacs.
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Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2016 17:17:02 +0200
Message-Id: <837f6z9a4x.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: 26.0.50; Interacting with user from threads other than the primary
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Here's some fun with threads:
emacs -Q
Evaluate:
(defun my-question ()
(let (use-dialog-box) ;; in case this is a GUI frame
(if (y-or-n-p "Yes or no? ")
(message "You said YES")
(message "You said NO"))))
Evaluate:
(my-question)
You get a question asked in the minibuffer, answer it with Y or N, and
get the corresponding echo. All's well.
Now evaluate this:
(make-thread #'my-question "question")
You again get the question asked in the minibuffer, but typing
anything at the prompt causes Emacs to complain that whatever you
typed is "undefined". Your only fire escape is to close this session
with some mouse gesture, or kill it.
What happens here is that, by the time the new thread runs, the main
(a.k.a. "primary") thread is already idle, i.e. it already called
read_char, which called wait_reading_process_output, which called
thread_select. (In fact, it's _because_ the primary thread called
thread_select that the new thread was allowed to run at all, since it
has to acquire the global lock for that, and that is only possible
when the running thread releases the lock inside thread_select.) Now,
when wait_reading_process_output calls thread_select, it prepares the
mask for file descriptors it will wait for to become ready for
reading, in this case there's only one descriptor: the keyboard
descriptor. So the primary thread is waiting for input from the
keyboard.
Now the new thread starts running and eventually calls y-or-n-p, which
calls read_char, which calls wait_reading_process_output. But when
this call prepares the mask for the thread_select call, it skips the
keyboard descriptor, because we only allow a single thread to wait on
each descriptor, and the keyboard descriptor is already watched by the
primary thread. So the new thread ends up not waiting on the keyboard
input descriptor.
The thread_select call then switches back to the primary thread, and
the primary thread receives the Y or N character you type. But it
doesn't know what to do with it, so it becomes confused.
IOW, user interaction from non-primary threads is currently inherently
unsafe.
And then, of course, there's the use case where two threads ask the
user something via the minibuffer.
Thoughts?
In GNU Emacs 26.0.50.118 (i686-pc-mingw32)
of 2016-12-16 built on HOME-C4E4A596F7
Repository revision: fb2fdb1435d2520c1cbf2a3d6a53128512a38458
Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
Recent messages:
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.
Configured using:
'configure --prefix=/d/usr --enable-checking=yes,glyphs --with-wide-int
--with-modules 'CFLAGS=-O0 -gdwarf-4 -g3''
Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND NOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 ZLIB
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS MODULES
Important settings:
value of $LANG: ENU
locale-coding-system: cp1255
Major mode: Lisp Interaction
Minor modes in effect:
tooltip-mode: t
global-eldoc-mode: t
electric-indent-mode: t
mouse-wheel-mode: t
tool-bar-mode: t
menu-bar-mode: t
file-name-shadow-mode: t
global-font-lock-mode: t
font-lock-mode: t
blink-cursor-mode: t
auto-composition-mode: t
auto-encryption-mode: t
auto-compression-mode: t
line-number-mode: t
transient-mark-mode: t
Load-path shadows:
None found.
Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message subr-x puny seq byte-opt gv
bytecomp byte-compile cl-extra help-mode cconv cl-loaddefs pcase cl-lib
dired dired-loaddefs format-spec rfc822 mml easymenu mml-sec
password-cache epa derived epg epg-config gnus-util rmail rmail-loaddefs
mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils
mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr
mail-utils time-date mule-util tooltip eldoc electric uniquify
ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel dos-w32 ls-lisp disp-table
term/w32-win w32-win w32-vars term/common-win tool-bar dnd fontset image
regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode elisp-mode
lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch timer
select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core
term/tty-colors frame cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang
vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932
hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic
chinese composite charscript case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help
simple abbrev obarray minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs button
faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64
format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable
backquote w32notify w32 multi-tty make-network-process emacs)
Memory information:
((conses 16 102990 12105)
(symbols 56 21101 0)
(miscs 48 36 129)
(strings 16 21030 4737)
(string-bytes 1 593607)
(vectors 16 14398)
(vector-slots 8 444812 4412)
(floats 8 179 129)
(intervals 40 269 104)
(buffers 864 11))
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25214; Package emacs.
Full text available.
GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham,
1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd,
1994-97 Ian Jackson.