Assaf Gordon <assafgordon@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Assaf Gordon <assafgordon@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at 27240) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jun 2017 04:35:04 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jun 07 00:35:04 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60161 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1dISgR-00042w-Ob for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 00:35:03 -0400 Received: from mail.magicbluesmoke.com ([82.195.144.49]:49028) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <P@HIDDEN>) id 1dISgQ-00042U-Fj for 27240 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 00:35:02 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain (mobile-166-177-251-139.mycingular.net [166.177.251.139]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.magicbluesmoke.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BF1674B15; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 05:34:59 +0100 (IST) Subject: Re: bug#27240: inconsistent and confusing output from 'ln' vs. 'cp': can this be fixed? To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>, L A Walsh <coreutils@HIDDEN>, 27240 <at> debbugs.gnu.org References: <593477DA.50202@HIDDEN> <c8789c5d-8031-4a26-10b0-3ab2152791b2@HIDDEN> <25da095d-014b-285d-95e0-96762121649c@HIDDEN> From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=c3=a1draig_Brady?= <P@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <22ca6a76-4455-5780-b9e3-2a8ab76365ee@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 21:34:55 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <25da095d-014b-285d-95e0-96762121649c@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27240 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On 04/06/17 22:07, Paul Eggert wrote: > Pádraig Brady wrote: >> Well => is for hardlinks, and both -> and => were used >> to distinguish the operations (in v5.92-191-g24ce72f) > > As I understand it, part of the motivation is consistency with 'ls': > > $ ln -sv a b > 'b' -> 'a' > $ ls -l b > lrwxrwxrwx 1 eggert eggert 1 Jun 4 21:59 b -> a > > With that in mind, if we were to change the format of 'ln' so that the order was > the same as the command line, presumably it would look like this: > > $ ln -sv a b > 'a' <- 'b' > $ ln -v c d > 'c' <= 'd' > > An advantage of this format (over what we're using) is that it's easier to > distinguish 'cp -v' from 'ln -v' output in a log. I'm not sure that's enough > advantage to change, though. Besides, 'cp -v' vs 'mv -v' output is already > ambiguous. I do like that change for ln. Whether the improvement might break compatibility is a concern, though I think that's unlikely. cheers, Pádraig
bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:bug#27240; Package coreutils.
Full text available.Received: (at 27240) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jun 2017 00:52:23 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 05 20:52:23 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58313 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1dI2jP-0007kD-0C for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jun 2017 20:52:23 -0400 Received: from ishtar.tlinx.org ([173.164.175.65]:45194 helo=Ishtar.sc.tlinx.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <coreutils@HIDDEN>) id 1dI2jN-0007k4-9H for 27240 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jun 2017 20:52:21 -0400 Received: from [192.168.3.12] (Athenae [192.168.3.12]) by Ishtar.sc.tlinx.org (8.14.7/8.14.4/SuSE Linux 0.8) with ESMTP id v560qAti077513; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 17:52:12 -0700 Message-ID: <5935FCBA.50502@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2017 17:52:10 -0700 From: L A Walsh <coreutils@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Thunderbird MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#27240: inconsistent and confusing output from 'ln' vs. 'cp': can this be fixed? References: <593477DA.50202@HIDDEN> <c8789c5d-8031-4a26-10b0-3ab2152791b2@HIDDEN> <25da095d-014b-285d-95e0-96762121649c@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <25da095d-014b-285d-95e0-96762121649c@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27240 Cc: 27240 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, =?UTF-8?B?UMOhZHJhaWcgQnJhZHk=?= <P@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) Was composing a response to this and started getting a headache. Erg. in short, 'ls' is the way it is because the listing puts the files in the 1st column (& in symlink case, puts target on right). 'ls' creating terminology for cp/mv/ln, is really a case of the tail wagging the dog. how to sync 'mv' with any solution ... headache... have to think about this (in short thinks!)... --l
bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:bug#27240; Package coreutils.
Full text available.Received: (at 27240) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jun 2017 05:07:59 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 05 01:07:59 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56369 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1dHkFD-0007Ji-DD for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jun 2017 01:07:59 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:57652) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1dHkFB-0007JO-4j for 27240 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jun 2017 01:07:58 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FB8D1600E7; Sun, 4 Jun 2017 22:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id oze4QODCGTRu; Sun, 4 Jun 2017 22:07:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BE041600E8; Sun, 4 Jun 2017 22:07:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id OU5v-wJ4_aWz; Sun, 4 Jun 2017 22:07:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.153.188.248]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5E3891600E7; Sun, 4 Jun 2017 22:07:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#27240: inconsistent and confusing output from 'ln' vs. 'cp': can this be fixed? To: =?UTF-8?Q?P=c3=a1draig_Brady?= <P@HIDDEN>, L A Walsh <coreutils@HIDDEN>, 27240 <at> debbugs.gnu.org References: <593477DA.50202@HIDDEN> <c8789c5d-8031-4a26-10b0-3ab2152791b2@HIDDEN> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <25da095d-014b-285d-95e0-96762121649c@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2017 22:07:49 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <c8789c5d-8031-4a26-10b0-3ab2152791b2@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27240 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) P=C3=A1draig Brady wrote: > Well =3D> is for hardlinks, and both -> and =3D> were used > to distinguish the operations (in v5.92-191-g24ce72f) As I understand it, part of the motivation is consistency with 'ls': $ ln -sv a b 'b' -> 'a' $ ls -l b lrwxrwxrwx 1 eggert eggert 1 Jun 4 21:59 b -> a With that in mind, if we were to change the format of 'ln' so that the or= der was=20 the same as the command line, presumably it would look like this: $ ln -sv a b 'a' <- 'b' $ ln -v c d 'c' <=3D 'd' An advantage of this format (over what we're using) is that it's easier t= o=20 distinguish 'cp -v' from 'ln -v' output in a log. I'm not sure that's eno= ugh=20 advantage to change, though. Besides, 'cp -v' vs 'mv -v' output is alread= y=20 ambiguous.
bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:bug#27240; Package coreutils.
Full text available.Received: (at 27240) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jun 2017 04:13:04 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 05 00:13:04 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56344 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1dHjO3-00049H-U3 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jun 2017 00:13:04 -0400 Received: from mail.magicbluesmoke.com ([82.195.144.49]:47904) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <P@HIDDEN>) id 1dHjO1-00048r-Id for 27240 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jun 2017 00:13:02 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain (mobile-166-177-249-11.mycingular.net [166.177.249.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.magicbluesmoke.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4FBF594EA; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 05:12:59 +0100 (IST) Subject: Re: bug#27240: inconsistent and confusing output from 'ln' vs. 'cp': can this be fixed? To: L A Walsh <coreutils@HIDDEN>, 27240 <at> debbugs.gnu.org References: <593477DA.50202@HIDDEN> From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=c3=a1draig_Brady?= <P@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <c8789c5d-8031-4a26-10b0-3ab2152791b2@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2017 21:12:55 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <593477DA.50202@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 27240 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On 04/06/17 14:12, L A Walsh wrote: > > Needing to hardlink some files from tree1 to tree2, I > had them in a script and @first used: > "cp -lv": > >> cp -lv src/a dst/a > 'src/a' -> 'dst/a' > > Later, I thought to use 'ln -v' for a different tree: > >> ln -v src/a dst/a > 'dst/a' => 'src/a' > > > Wait a sec.. I'm not linking from dst/a > to src/b, but the other way around. Well you're not linking in any direction for the hard link case. You're creating 'dst/a'. Now you may argue that it should match cp, though it probably makes more sense to match with the `ln -s` case. For completeness we have: $ touch a $ ln -v a b 'b' => 'a' $ ln -sv a c 'c' -> 'a' $ cp -lv a d 'a' -> 'd' $ cp -sv a e 'a' -> 'e' $ cp -v a f 'a' -> 'f' I read the above for ln as "dest linked to source" and for cp as "source copied to dest". > Hmm, it's using => instead of -> > => is what is used for *symlinks*.. and there, one > would create a link @ dst/a to point to (=>) src/a. Well => is for hardlinks, and both -> and => were used to distinguish the operations (in v5.92-191-g24ce72f) Given the above interpretation I'm not sure there is anything to change here. thanks, Pádraig
bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:bug#27240; Package coreutils.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jun 2017 21:13:21 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 04 17:13:21 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56189 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1dHcps-0000zQ-To for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Jun 2017 17:13:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42434) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <coreutils@HIDDEN>) id 1dHcpr-0000zD-KE for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Jun 2017 17:13:19 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <coreutils@HIDDEN>) id 1dHcpl-00031K-Kk for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Jun 2017 17:13:14 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:49617) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <coreutils@HIDDEN>) id 1dHcpl-00031G-HP for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Jun 2017 17:13:13 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33404) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <coreutils@HIDDEN>) id 1dHcpk-0001aW-H8 for bug-coreutils@HIDDEN; Sun, 04 Jun 2017 17:13:13 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <coreutils@HIDDEN>) id 1dHcpf-0002zP-Jv for bug-coreutils@HIDDEN; Sun, 04 Jun 2017 17:13:12 -0400 Received: from ishtar.tlinx.org ([173.164.175.65]:50736 helo=Ishtar.sc.tlinx.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <coreutils@HIDDEN>) id 1dHcpf-0002xB-69 for bug-coreutils@HIDDEN; Sun, 04 Jun 2017 17:13:07 -0400 Received: from [192.168.3.12] (Athenae [192.168.3.12]) by Ishtar.sc.tlinx.org (8.14.7/8.14.4/SuSE Linux 0.8) with ESMTP id v54LCwkx035975 for <bug-coreutils@HIDDEN>; Sun, 4 Jun 2017 14:13:01 -0700 Message-ID: <593477DA.50202@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2017 14:12:58 -0700 From: L A Walsh <coreutils@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Thunderbird MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Subject: inconsistent and confusing output from 'ln' vs. 'cp': can this be fixed? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x (no timestamps) [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Needing to hardlink some files from tree1 to tree2, I had them in a script and @first used: "cp -lv": > cp -lv src/a dst/a 'src/a' -> 'dst/a' Later, I thought to use 'ln -v' for a different tree: > ln -v src/a dst/a 'dst/a' => 'src/a' Wait a sec.. I'm not linking from dst/a to src/b, but the other way around. Hmm, it's using => instead of -> => is what is used for *symlinks*.. and there, one would create a link @ dst/a to point to (=>) src/a. But this wasn't a symlink. In the case of hard links, I think the output in 'ln -v' should be the same as one gets from cp -lv. Having the src & dst switched is confusing for what acts like a copy operation and isn't creating a link from the dest to the src, since afterward, if the src disappears, the hard-linked file is still valid (unlike the case w/symlinks). Should be semi-trivial given the common code, right? ;-) Thanks -linda
L A Walsh <coreutils@HIDDEN>:bug-coreutils@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:bug#27240; Package coreutils.
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