GNU logs - #28902, boring messages

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#28902: 25.3; M-x report-emacs-bug requires smtp
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Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 16:42:03 +0000
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To: 28902 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
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From: =?UTF-8?Q?Far=C3=A9?= <fahree@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 12:10:35 -0400
Message-ID: <CAN7nBXcnMfj9pznDZ6xEgn30kvK-WZg+PA3+YEiqVHpoMRDjZg@HIDDEN>
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M-x report-emacs-bug tries to send mail from the localhost, but these
days, due to spam issues, SMTP is not quite as available as it was say
twenty years ago. Most localhost do not have a mail server;
most ISPs do not offer SMTP and further block SMTP ports;
most servers on the internet will not relay mail without authentication;
to setup your own server requires possessing a domain and a stable
server, altering DNS records and mastering technologies
such as DKIM, DMARC, SPF, etc., that did not exist back in the days
when M-x report-emacs-bug was originally written.
To remain usable, M-x report-emacs-bug should at the very least
document how one may send the mail via some webmail instead, or
offer to configure emacs (or the underlying system) to offer
some interface that will bridge the SMTP gap somehow.


In GNU Emacs 25.3.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.22.21)
 of 2017-10-05 built on localhost
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11903000
Configured using:
 'configure --disable-dependency-tracking
 --prefix=3D/nix/store/mzd9pa3gs3hi6qy73w8hqv4zlilfka18-emacs-25.3
 --with-modules --with-x-toolkit=3Dgtk3 --with-xft'

Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS NOTIFY LIBSELINUX GNUTLS
LIBXML2 FREETYPE XFT ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11 MODULES

Important settings:
  value of $EMACSLOADPATH:
/nix/store/js6f93ihr2crmijhi7j0ql9nszdszjsz-emacs-packages-deps/share/emacs=
/site-lisp:
  value of $LC_CTYPE: en_US.UTF-8
  value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8

Major mode: Message

Minor modes in effect:
  mml-mode: t
  diff-auto-refine-mode: t
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  global-edit-server-edit-mode: t
  override-global-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  auto-fill-function: message-do-auto-fill
  transient-mark-mode: t
  abbrev-mode: t

Recent messages:
Saving file /home/fare/*message*-20171019-114620...
Wrote /home/fare/*message*-20171019-114620
No server buffers remain to edit
Mark set
Quit [2 times]
next-line: End of buffer [3 times]
Mark activated
Quit
Mark set [3 times]
Auto-saving...done
Quit

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Features:
(cl-indent shadow sort mail-extr warnings emacsbug message dired
format-spec rfc822 mml mml-sec password-cache epg gnus-util mm-decode
mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader
sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util help-fns mail-prsvr
mail-utils misearch multi-isearch vc-git diff-mode tex-mode shell
pcomplete latexenc rainbow-delimiters misterioso-theme term/xterm xterm
server tango-theme mic-paren gambit cmuscheme scheme slime-asdf grep
slime-fancy slime-trace-dialog slime-fontifying-fu slime-package-fu
slime-references slime-compiler-notes-tree slime-presentations bridge
slime-macrostep macrostep slime-mdot-fu slime-enclosing-context
slime-fuzzy slime-fancy-trace slime-fancy-inspector slime-c-p-c
slime-editing-commands slime-autodoc slime-repl elp slime-parse
slime-scratch slime derived lisp-mnt gud apropos compile etags xref
project eieio eieio-core arc-mode archive-mode noutline outline pp
comint ansi-color ring hyperspec thingatpt browse-url slime-autoloads
edit-server-htmlize html2text edit-server advice edmacro kmacro
highlight-chars use-package diminish bind-key easy-mmode paren ido
cl-macs cl-seq cl finder-inf info package epg-config seq seq-25 byte-opt
gv bytecomp byte-compile cl-extra help-mode easymenu cconv cl-loaddefs
pcase cl-lib time-date mule-util tooltip eldoc electric uniquify
ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel x-win term/common-win x-dnd
tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list newcomment
elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer
select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core
frame cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan
thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian
slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese charscript
case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer
cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files
text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule
custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote dbusbind inotify
dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk
x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 348628 36450)
 (symbols 48 35353 0)
 (miscs 40 338 534)
 (strings 32 77966 11779)
 (string-bytes 1 2212583)
 (vectors 16 35646)
 (vector-slots 8 1508639 201260)
 (floats 8 348 736)
 (intervals 56 2033 141)
 (buffers 976 27))

--
=E2=80=94=E2=99=AF=C6=92 =E2=80=A2 Fran=C3=A7ois-Ren=C3=A9 =C3=90VB Rideau =
=E2=80=A2Reflection&Cybernethics=E2=80=A2 http://fare.tunes.org
To converse at the distance of the Indes by means of sympathetic contrivanc=
es
may be as natural to future times as to us is a literary correspondence.
  =E2=80=94 Joseph Glanvill, 1661

Message sent:

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X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: =?UTF-8?Q?Far=C3=A9?= <fahree@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#28902: Acknowledgement (25.3; M-x report-emacs-bug requires smtp)
Message-ID: <handler.28902.B.150843130922740.ack <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
References: <CAN7nBXcnMfj9pznDZ6xEgn30kvK-WZg+PA3+YEiqVHpoMRDjZg@HIDDEN>
X-Gnu-PR-Message: ack 28902
X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs
Reply-To: 28902 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 16:42:03 +0000

Thank you for filing a new bug report with debbugs.gnu.org.

This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message
has been received.

Your message is being forwarded to the package maintainers and other
interested parties for their attention; they will reply in due course.

Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s):
 bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN

If you wish to submit further information on this problem, please
send it to 28902 <at> debbugs.gnu.org.

Please do not send mail to help-debbugs@HIDDEN unless you wish
to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system.

--=20
28902: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D28902
GNU Bug Tracking System
Contact help-debbugs@HIDDEN with problems

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merge 28902 28154

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Subject: bug#28902: 25.3; M-x report-emacs-bug requires smtp
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> From: Faré <fahree@HIDDEN>
> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 12:10:35 -0400
> 
> M-x report-emacs-bug tries to send mail from the localhost, but these
> days, due to spam issues, SMTP is not quite as available as it was say
> twenty years ago. Most localhost do not have a mail server;
> most ISPs do not offer SMTP and further block SMTP ports;
> most servers on the internet will not relay mail without authentication;
> to setup your own server requires possessing a domain and a stable
> server, altering DNS records and mastering technologies
> such as DKIM, DMARC, SPF, etc., that did not exist back in the days
> when M-x report-emacs-bug was originally written.
> To remain usable, M-x report-emacs-bug should at the very least
> document how one may send the mail via some webmail instead, or
> offer to configure emacs (or the underlying system) to offer
> some interface that will bridge the SMTP gap somehow.

This is bug#28154, and someone is hopefully working on it.

Thanks.

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Faré <fahree@HIDDEN> writes:

> M-x report-emacs-bug tries to send mail from the localhost, but 
> these
> days, due to spam issues, SMTP is not quite as available as it 
> was say
> twenty years ago. Most localhost do not have a mail server; most 
> ISPs
> do not offer SMTP and further block SMTP ports; most servers on 
> the
> internet will not relay mail without authentication; to setup 
> your own
> server requires possessing a domain and a stable server, 
> altering DNS
> records and mastering technologies such as DKIM, DMARC, SPF, 
> etc.,
> that did not exist back in the days when M-x report-emacs-bug 
> was
> originally written.

True. On the other hand, those are not the only possibilities; a 
number
of people, such as myself, use a dedicated email service provider, 
and
have set up SMTP clients such as `msmtp' to send email via that
provider's SMTP servers.

> To remain usable, M-x report-emacs-bug should at the very least
> document how one may send the mail via some webmail instead

i might be missing something, but do people think they can't just 
copy
and paste the report text into a new email, and send it to the 
address
specified in the report buffer's To: field, 
i.e. bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN?

> or offer to configure emacs (or the underlying system) to offer 
> some
> interface that will bridge the SMTP gap somehow.

The problem is that there are just so many different ways of 
setting up
email - not only across operating systems, but also within a given
OS/distro. Even if one settled on, say, using msmtp (rather than, 
say,
exim, postfix, esmtp, opensmtpd, sendmail etc.) as the underlying 
MTA,
there's still the question of how to actually get that on the 
user's
system if it's not already installed:

* Via a package manager? If so, then the various package UIs (apt, 
  yum,
  dnf, YaST, pacman, apk, etc.) need to be taken into 
  consideration, as
  do the various locations that different OSes might put the 
  various
  configuration files. Further, not all users will necessarily 
  have the
  permissions to allow installing arbitrary packages.

* Build it from source? Many users won't have the necessary build 
  setup
  on their machine (or indeed, be able to install the necessary 
  setup).

* Bundle it with Emacs? Assuming the license allows that, that's 
  going
  to create maintenance burdens in terms of tracking upstream's
  bug/security fixes, and e.g. having to release a new version of 
  Emacs
  in order to get a security fix for the MTA onto users' machines.

And then there are the security issues that come with having an
configured MTA available on a machine; it's one thing if someone 
is
making use of that MTA for various email needs, it's another if 
it's
only being used by Emacs ....

So it seems to me that designing an interface to covering all, or 
even
many, of the possibilities would be an /enormous/ task.


Alexis.

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> From: Alexis <flexibeast@HIDDEN>
> Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 19:15:39 +1100
> Cc: 28902 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> i might be missing something, but do people think they can't just 
> copy
> and paste the report text into a new email, and send it to the 
> address
> specified in the report buffer's To: field, 
> i.e. bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN?

I believe the improvement someone said they will be working on was to
copy the text into the system clipboard and tell the user to paste it
from their into their favorite email client.  See
https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=28154#5.

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