GNU logs - #33467, boring messages

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Subject: bug#33467: "diff" can not scan directories with same dev/inode
Resent-From: Delian Krustev <krustev-diffutils@HIDDEN>
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From: Delian Krustev <krustev-diffutils@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2018 15:44:56 +0200
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	Hi,

NILFS is a log structured file system which supports snapshotting.
I've tried to see the differences between two snapshots using diff:

  root@srv1:/mnt/protected# diff -qr tmp/ bkp_srv1/

and was amazed to find out that I can't.

Here are the mounts:

  # the HEAD of the filesystem, mounted read/write:
  /dev/mapper/bkp_srv1 on /mnt/protected/bkp_srv1 type nilfs2 (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime)
  # an older snapshot, mounted read only:
  /dev/mapper/bkp_srv1 on /mnt/protected/tmp type nilfs2 (ro,relatime,cp=2171601)

At first I've decided that I've mounted the wrong checkpoint(snapshot) or
have done something else wrong. Then I've double checked and have verified
that there ARE actually different file contents on both mounts.

So my guess is that diff checks the stat information on the dirs and if
its the same dev&inode it does not bother to compare:

root@srv1:/mnt/protected# stat tmp bkp_srv1
  File: tmp
  Size: 4096            Blocks: 1          IO Block: 4096   directory
Device: fd05h/64773d    Inode: 2           Links: 4
Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x)  Uid: (    0/    root)   Gid: (    0/    root)
Access: 2014-02-11 22:16:50.545497340 +0000
Modify: 2014-02-11 22:16:50.545497340 +0000
Change: 2014-02-11 22:16:50.545497340 +0000
 Birth: -

  File: bkp_srv1
  Size: 4096            Blocks: 1          IO Block: 4096   directory
Device: fd05h/64773d    Inode: 2           Links: 4
Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x)  Uid: (    0/    root)   Gid: (    0/    root)
Access: 2014-02-11 22:16:50.545497340 +0000
Modify: 2014-02-11 22:16:50.545497340 +0000
Change: 2014-02-11 22:16:50.545497340 +0000
 Birth: -

I've checked the man page and was not able to find a usable diff option,
e.g. force the comparison anyway.

I've also run:

  rsync -a --dry-run --verbose tmp/. bkp_srv1/.

and it shows the differences as expected.

So "diff" is unable to do its job and show the differences between
files/dirs when they exist.

Thus I consider this to be a bug.

P.S. I am aware that "diff" is crucially important software for
lots of software developers and infrastructure and making changes
to it or its interface (e.g. command line options) is a responsible
task.

Best regards
--
Delian

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From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Delian Krustev <krustev-diffutils@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#33467: Acknowledgement ("diff" can not scan directories with
 same dev/inode)
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Subject: bug#33467: [bug-diffutils] bug#33467: "diff" can not scan directories with same dev/inode
In-Reply-To: <3087387.ZnD5iEkHCf@home>
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Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 22:32:04 +0000
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This sounds similar to a problem I have just encountered.

If I have filesystems mounted at:

 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 /mnt/foo
 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 /mnt/foo/subfs

then do

 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 mount --bind /mnt/foo /mnt/bar

then the contents of `/mnt/foo` and `/mnt/bar` are different, because=20
`/mnt/foo/subfs` has contents but `/mnt/bar/subfs` does not have=20
contents. However

 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 diff -r /mnt/foo /mnt/bar

returns no results. However in my case, rsync is also unable to show the=20
differences.

Message sent to bug-diffutils@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#33467: [bug-diffutils] bug#33467: bug#33467: "diff" can not scan directories with same dev/inode
Resent-From: Eric Blake <eblake@HIDDEN>
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From: Eric Blake <eblake@HIDDEN>
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Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 16:39:48 -0600
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On 11/29/18 4:32 PM, Mark Raymond wrote:
> This sounds similar to a problem I have just encountered.
> 
> If I have filesystems mounted at:
> 
>      /mnt/foo
>      /mnt/foo/subfs
> 
> then do
> 
>      mount --bind /mnt/foo /mnt/bar
> 
> then the contents of `/mnt/foo` and `/mnt/bar` are different, because 
> `/mnt/foo/subfs` has contents but `/mnt/bar/subfs` does not have 
> contents. However
> 
>      diff -r /mnt/foo /mnt/bar
> 
> returns no results. However in my case, rsync is also unable to show the 
> differences.

POSIX says that a file is uniquely determined by its inode and device 
number. If you have a file system that reports the same device for 
different contents, your file system is broken, and it's no wonder that 
LOTS of Unix tools will fail to see the differences, because your file 
system is lying.  We can't fix it in diffutils; that would have to be a 
fix in the kernel implementation of your file system driver.

-- 
Eric Blake, Principal Software Engineer
Red Hat, Inc.           +1-919-301-3266
Virtualization:  qemu.org | libvirt.org

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On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 16:39:48 -0600, Eric Blake wrote:
> On 11/29/18 4:32 PM, Mark Raymond wrote:
>> This sounds similar to a problem I have just encountered.
>>
>> If I have filesystems mounted at:
>>
>>  =A0=A0=A0 /mnt/foo
>>  =A0=A0=A0 /mnt/foo/subfs
>>
>> then do
>>
>>  =A0=A0=A0 mount --bind /mnt/foo /mnt/bar
>>
>> then the contents of `/mnt/foo` and `/mnt/bar` are different, because =
=20
>> `/mnt/foo/subfs` has contents but `/mnt/bar/subfs` does not have =20
>> contents. However
>>
>>  =A0=A0=A0 diff -r /mnt/foo /mnt/bar
>>
>> returns no results. However in my case, rsync is also unable to show=20
>> the differences.
>
> POSIX says that a file is uniquely determined by its inode and device =20
> number. If you have a file system that reports the same device for =20
> different contents, your file system is broken, and it's no wonder that =
=20
> LOTS of Unix tools will fail to see the differences, because your file =
=20
> system is lying.  We can't fix it in diffutils; that would have to be a =
=20
> fix in the kernel implementation of your file system driver.
>
> --=20
> Eric Blake, Principal Software Engineer
> Red Hat, Inc.           +1-919-301-3266
> Virtualization:  qemu.org | libvirt.org

  Maybe the closest thing to a bug there is that /mnt/bar/subfs does not ha=
ve contents.

--=20
  Eric Deplagne

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On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 06:28:25 +0000, Mark Raymond wrote:
> <div dir=3D'auto'>This is the normal behaviour of bind mounts, introduced=
 in Linux 2.4.0. If this is to be considered a bug in Linux, it's a very ol=
d one!</div>

  Could be argued, and has probably been debated aplenty, if mounts should =
or should not be propagated by bind mounts,
  and the fact is they are not.

  It feels odd from diff-ing point of vue, but there must be other (especia=
lly security) implications.

--=20
  Eric Deplagne

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> POSIX says that a file is uniquely determined by its inode and device
> number.

This makes sense for files - but I'm not convinced it makes sense for directories. The only cases I can think of where two directories could have the same inode and device number are bind mounts (and theoretically directory hard links) - and in both those cases it's legitimate for there to be different mounts on subdirectories.

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On Thursday, November 29, 2018 4:39:48 PM EET Eric Blake <eblake@HIDDEN> 
wrote:
> POSIX says that a file is uniquely determined by its inode and device
> number. If you have a file system that reports the same device for
> different contents, your file system is broken,

NILFS allows time traveling - you can mount an old snapshot and can see two 
points in time of the same filesystem. Thus it is the same dev (there is no 
practice dev numbers to be time dependent).

This is also valid for files.
Files with the same dev/inode can have different contents.

> and it's no wonder that
> LOTS of Unix tools will fail to see the differences, because your file
> system is lying.  We can't fix it in diffutils; that would have to be a
> fix in the kernel implementation of your file system driver.

This can be easily cross-reported to LKML. If "diff" developers blame the 
kernel/fs both parties should discuss it as its unacceptable a core utility to 
be unusable. ( I'm pretty sure though, that the kernel developers will be 
convinced that it does not need change. )

All we need is command line option which can turn off the comparison by dev/
inode. Does not sound like too much work.

Or maybe you are worried about changing the API ?

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On Thursday, November 29, 2018 4:39:48 PM EET Eric Blake <eblake@HIDDEN> 
wrote:
> POSIX says that a file is uniquely determined by its inode and device
> number. If you have a file system that reports the same device for
> different contents, your file system is broken,

NILFS allows time traveling - you can mount an old snapshot and can see two 
points in time of the same filesystem. Thus it is the same dev (there is no 
practice dev numbers to be time dependent).

This is also valid for files.
Files with the same dev/inode can have different contents.

> and it's no wonder that
> LOTS of Unix tools will fail to see the differences, because your file
> system is lying.  We can't fix it in diffutils; that would have to be a
> fix in the kernel implementation of your file system driver.

This can be easily cross-reported to LKML. If "diff" developers blame the 
kernel/fs both parties should discuss it as its unacceptable a core utility to 
be unusable. ( I'm pretty sure though, that the kernel developers will be 
convinced that it does not need change. )

All we need is command line option which can turn off the comparison by dev/
inode. Does not sound like too much work.

Or maybe you are worried about changing the API ?

Message sent to bug-diffutils@HIDDEN:

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From: Eric Blake <eblake@HIDDEN>
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On 11/30/18 7:09 AM, Delian Krustev wrote:

> This can be easily cross-reported to LKML. If "diff" developers blame the
> kernel/fs both parties should discuss it as its unacceptable a core utility to
> be unusable. ( I'm pretty sure though, that the kernel developers will be
> convinced that it does not need change. )
> 
> All we need is command line option which can turn off the comparison by dev/
> inode. Does not sound like too much work.

Except that it does not scale. Working around a kernel/filesystem bug in 
every single affected user space app is nowhere near as efficient as 
just fixing the kernel/filesystem bug.

-- 
Eric Blake, Principal Software Engineer
Red Hat, Inc.           +1-919-301-3266
Virtualization:  qemu.org | libvirt.org

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On 11/30/18 7:09 AM, Delian Krustev wrote:

> This can be easily cross-reported to LKML. If "diff" developers blame the
> kernel/fs both parties should discuss it as its unacceptable a core utility to
> be unusable. ( I'm pretty sure though, that the kernel developers will be
> convinced that it does not need change. )
> 
> All we need is command line option which can turn off the comparison by dev/
> inode. Does not sound like too much work.

Except that it does not scale. Working around a kernel/filesystem bug in 
every single affected user space app is nowhere near as efficient as 
just fixing the kernel/filesystem bug.

-- 
Eric Blake, Principal Software Engineer
Red Hat, Inc.           +1-919-301-3266
Virtualization:  qemu.org | libvirt.org

Message sent to bug-diffutils@HIDDEN:

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On 11/30/18 5:09 AM, Delian Krustev wrote:
> This can be easily cross-reported to LKML. If "diff" developers blame the
> kernel/fs both parties should discuss it as its unacceptable a core utility to
> be unusable. ( I'm pretty sure though, that the kernel developers will be
> convinced that it does not need change. )

In that case I suppose we are at an impasse, and it's the poor users who 
will have to suffer. :-)

Seriously, POSIX is clear that dev+ino uniquely identifies a file, and 
many applications rely on this property. If a filesystem chooses to 
depart from standard behavior it hardly seems realistic to expect 
developers to change all their programs to work around the 
incompatibility, particularly if workarounds lead to slow behavior or 
incorrect behavior or both.

It shouldn't be that hard for the filesystem in question to invent inode 
numbers specific to the particular instance of the file. This sort of 
game has been played for years for Microsoft filesystems that lack 
inodes, and although the game can't be played perfectly in practice it 
seems to work well enough to keep users happy. Better, of course, would 
be proper support for inode numbers.

Last modified: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 12:00:02 UTC

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