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Subject: bug#36430: mcron would benefit from a better way to test jobs
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My issue:

Defined a mcron job in config.scm scheduled to run once a day,
with a scheme expression. How do I test this?

herd schedule mcron lists the job as merely a =E2=80=9CLambda =
expression=E2=80=9D.
I learned how to give it a descriptive name, but still there=E2=80=99s
no script linked that I can run by hand.

One major improvement would be to have:

1. `herd schedule mcron` lists jobs with some kind of id
2. `herd execute mcron <id>` runs the specific mcron job

Or perhaps, any mcron job could be turned into a simple argument-less
guile or shell script that=E2=80=99s shown in the schedule listing?

Thoughts?

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Subject: bug#36430: Acknowledgement (mcron would benefit from a better way
 to test jobs)
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Message sent to bug-guix@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#36430: mcron would benefit from a better way to test jobs
References: <B0BF7C44-23B2-42D7-8ACD-86E55DBDCE7D@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <B0BF7C44-23B2-42D7-8ACD-86E55DBDCE7D@HIDDEN>
Resent-From: Jesse Gibbons <jgibbons2357@HIDDEN>
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Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:45:54 -0600
From: Jesse Gibbons <jgibbons2357@HIDDEN>
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> My issue:

> Defined a mcron job in config.scm scheduled to run once a day,
> with a scheme expression. How do I test this?

Write the mcron job for a local installation of mcron first for
testing purposes, then move it into config.scm. That's how I do it.

> herd schedule mcron lists the job as merely a =E2=80=9CLambda expression=
=E2=80=9D.
> I learned how to give it a descriptive name, but still there=E2=80=99s
> no script linked that I can run by hand.
>
> One major improvement would be to have:
>
> 1. `herd schedule mcron` lists jobs with some kind of id
> 2. `herd execute mcron <id>` runs the specific mcron job
>
> Or perhaps, any mcron job could be turned into a simple argument-less
> guile or shell script that=E2=80=99s shown in the schedule listing?
>
> Thoughts?
mcron --schedule=3Dcount gives you a listing of each scheduled job and
when it will next be run. I would expect "herd schedule mcron" runs
that command. I don't know about scheduling a function, but
if the scheduled job is a string it can be copied/pasted into a
terminal.

mcron is super buggy in my experience. If I power my laptop off
overnight it will skip all jobs scheduled for the day of the month,
even if they are scheduled for after I power it back on. And it doesn't
have a way to easily schedule for a given day of the week.

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Subject: bug#36430: mcron would benefit from a better way to test jobs
Resent-From: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
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From: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
References: <B0BF7C44-23B2-42D7-8ACD-86E55DBDCE7D@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2019 16:24:26 +0200
In-Reply-To: <B0BF7C44-23B2-42D7-8ACD-86E55DBDCE7D@HIDDEN> (Robert
 Vollmert's message of "Sat, 29 Jun 2019 08:37:29 +0200")
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Hi Robert,

Robert Vollmert <rob@HIDDEN> skribis:

> Defined a mcron job in config.scm scheduled to run once a day,
> with a scheme expression. How do I test this?
>
> herd schedule mcron lists the job as merely a =E2=80=9CLambda expression=
=E2=80=9D.
> I learned how to give it a descriptive name, but still there=E2=80=99s
> no script linked that I can run by hand.

Commit 89fdd9ee0cc8817283449b33a8c1a2604c575c7e changes the rottlog job
in a simple way so we see an actual command rather than =E2=80=9CLambda
expression=E2=80=9D.  I would recommend using this style to improve
transparency.

> One major improvement would be to have:
>
> 1. `herd schedule mcron` lists jobs with some kind of id
> 2. `herd execute mcron <id>` runs the specific mcron job
>
> Or perhaps, any mcron job could be turned into a simple argument-less
> guile or shell script that=E2=80=99s shown in the schedule listing?

The commit I=E2=80=99m referring to above does exactly that.

Perhaps as a first step we could recommend this style more prominently
in the manual?

Further improvements should probably go into mcron itself.  It=E2=80=99s a
rather small and simple code base, so if you were looking for a
rewarding hacking session for the week-end, it=E2=80=99s probably a good
candidate.  ;-)

Thanks,
Ludo=E2=80=99.

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Hi Jesse,

Jesse Gibbons <jgibbons2357@HIDDEN> skribis:

> mcron is super buggy in my experience. If I power my laptop off
> overnight it will skip all jobs scheduled for the day of the month,
> even if they are scheduled for after I power it back on. And it doesn't
> have a way to easily schedule for a given day of the week.

Buggy in what sense?  It=E2=80=99s definitely lacking useful features, as R=
obert
reported, but apart from that it seems to work well for me.

I=E2=80=99d encourage you to report any issues you have to bug-mcron@HIDDEN=
g.
Overall, I agree that we should work to make it more pleasant to work
with!

Thanks,
Ludo=E2=80=99.

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> On 7. Jul 2019, at 16:24, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Robert,
>=20
> Robert Vollmert <rob@HIDDEN> skribis:
>=20
>> Defined a mcron job in config.scm scheduled to run once a day,
>> with a scheme expression. How do I test this?
>>=20
>> herd schedule mcron lists the job as merely a =E2=80=9CLambda =
expression=E2=80=9D.
>> I learned how to give it a descriptive name, but still there=E2=80=99s
>> no script linked that I can run by hand.
>=20
> Commit 89fdd9ee0cc8817283449b33a8c1a2604c575c7e changes the rottlog =
job
> in a simple way so we see an actual command rather than =E2=80=9CLambda
> expression=E2=80=9D.  I would recommend using this style to improve
> transparency.

I understand that passing an executable works better. But that also
loses the feature of allowing to write a script in place advertised by
the lambda variant.

I find that kind of =E2=80=9Cfeature that doesn=E2=80=99t actually =
work=E2=80=9D to be quite
painful.

A way to get the best of both worlds (within guix) would be to use
program-file / gexp, so maybe that=E2=80=99s what should be advertised =
in the
guix manual?


>> One major improvement would be to have:
>>=20
>> 1. `herd schedule mcron` lists jobs with some kind of id
>> 2. `herd execute mcron <id>` runs the specific mcron job
>>=20
>> Or perhaps, any mcron job could be turned into a simple argument-less
>> guile or shell script that=E2=80=99s shown in the schedule listing?
>=20
> The commit I=E2=80=99m referring to above does exactly that.
>=20
> Perhaps as a first step we could recommend this style more prominently
> in the manual?

I=E2=80=99ll see if I can get the gexp variant to work, and would =
provide
a manual patch if successful.

> Further improvements should probably go into mcron itself.  It=E2=80=99s=
 a
> rather small and simple code base, so if you were looking for a
> rewarding hacking session for the week-end, it=E2=80=99s probably a =
good
> candidate.  ;-)

At this stage, there=E2=80=99s just too many small hacking sessions =
required
all over the place :). I=E2=80=99ll stick with filing bug reports for =
the
clear pain points if that=E2=80=99s ok?

Robert

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Hi,

Robert Vollmert <rob@HIDDEN> skribis:

>> On 7. Jul 2019, at 16:24, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> wrote:
>>=20
>> Hi Robert,
>>=20
>> Robert Vollmert <rob@HIDDEN> skribis:
>>=20
>>> Defined a mcron job in config.scm scheduled to run once a day,
>>> with a scheme expression. How do I test this?
>>>=20
>>> herd schedule mcron lists the job as merely a =E2=80=9CLambda expressio=
n=E2=80=9D.
>>> I learned how to give it a descriptive name, but still there=E2=80=99s
>>> no script linked that I can run by hand.
>>=20
>> Commit 89fdd9ee0cc8817283449b33a8c1a2604c575c7e changes the rottlog job
>> in a simple way so we see an actual command rather than =E2=80=9CLambda
>> expression=E2=80=9D.  I would recommend using this style to improve
>> transparency.
>
> I understand that passing an executable works better. But that also
> loses the feature of allowing to write a script in place advertised by
> the lambda variant.

In Guix, if you write:

  #~(job =E2=80=A6 #$(program-file "do-something" #~(begin =E2=80=A6)))

instead of:

  #~(job =E2=80=A6 (lambda () =E2=80=A6))

you=E2=80=99re still writing Scheme code, and the result is pretty much the
same.

Now, from a pure mcron viewpoint (if you were to use it outside Guix), I
agree that procedures are handled in a suboptimal way.  Mcron should
simply display the procedure object, which includes its source location
info.

Aternately it could display its source location info as obtained with
=E2=80=98program-source=E2=80=99 if that helps readability:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
scheme@(guile-user)> ,use(system vm program)
scheme@(guile-user)> (program-source derivation (program-code derivation))
$6 =3D (2780 "guix/derivations.scm" 877 . 17)
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

> I find that kind of =E2=80=9Cfeature that doesn=E2=80=99t actually work=
=E2=80=9D to be quite
> painful.
>
> A way to get the best of both worlds (within guix) would be to use
> program-file / gexp, so maybe that=E2=80=99s what should be advertised in=
 the
> guix manual?

Yes, definitely.

> At this stage, there=E2=80=99s just too many small hacking sessions requi=
red
> all over the place :). I=E2=80=99ll stick with filing bug reports for the
> clear pain points if that=E2=80=99s ok?

Sure, definitely!  It=E2=80=99s good to have all these pain points filed, a=
nd I
think many can be addressed quite easily, so that=E2=80=99ll help us improve
things gradually.

Thanks,
Ludo=E2=80=99.

Message sent to bug-guix@HIDDEN:

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One related issue that I just ran into, while trying out the gexp =
approach:

mcron jobs take an optional third naming argument, which are again =
better
not used because they replace the store filename in the =E2=80=9Cschedule=E2=
=80=9D
output.

Message sent to bug-guix@HIDDEN:

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Robert Vollmert <rob@HIDDEN> skribis:

> One related issue that I just ran into, while trying out the gexp approac=
h:
>
> mcron jobs take an optional third naming argument, which are again better
> not used because they replace the store filename in the =E2=80=9Cschedule=
=E2=80=9D
> output.

I see; that feature was not designed at all with Guix in mind, and
presumably on FHS systems the name is enough if you can mentally map it
to something in /usr.

Ludo=E2=80=99.

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