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Subject: bug#3956: 23.1.50; Scrolling ugliness
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When scrolling up and down by using the keyboard, or dragging the scroll
bar thumb, the thumb will noticeably change size. This is ugly and very
distracting. Worse, trying to use the scroll wheel results in motion
which is jagged, unpredictable and ridiculously sensitive, and usually
overshoots so badly that it's completely useless.
In GNU Emacs 23.1.50.2 (i386-apple-darwin9.6.0, NS apple-appkit-949.43)
of 2009-07-28
Windowing system distributor `Apple', version 10.3.949
configured using `configure '--with-ns''
--
http://www.fastmail.fm - Same, same, but different...
Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.427 (Entity 5.427) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Loop: owner@HIDDEN From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (Emacs bug Tracking System) To: "Otto Maddox" <ottomaddox@HIDDEN> Subject: bug#3956: Acknowledgement (23.1.50; Scrolling ugliness) Message-ID: <handler.3956.B.12487835423864.ack@HIDDEN> References: <1248783530.20666.1327145393@HIDDEN> X-Emacs-PR-Message: ack 3956 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 3956 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:25:04 +0000 Thank you for filing a new bug report with Emacs. This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message has been received. Your message is being forwarded to the package maintainers and other interested parties for their attention; they will reply in due course. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> If you wish to submit further information on this problem, please send it to 3956 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, as before. Please do not send mail to help-debbugs@HIDDEN unless you wish to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system. --=20 3956: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D3956 Emacs Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@HIDDEN with problems
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Subject: bug#3956: 23.1.50; Scrolling ugliness
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retitle 3956 Scroll bar thumb changes size when scrolling on macOS
found 3956 27.0.50
thanks
"Otto Maddox" <ottomaddox@HIDDEN> writes:
> When scrolling up and down by using the keyboard, or dragging the scroll
> bar thumb, the thumb will noticeably change size. This is ugly and very
> distracting.
I can verify this still happens on macOS using current master.
> Worse, trying to use the scroll wheel results in motion which is
> jagged, unpredictable and ridiculously sensitive, and usually
> overshoots so badly that it's completely useless.
I think this has since been fixed.
Best regards,
Stefan Kangas
Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2019 05:56:42 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 02 01:56:42 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57978 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1iQmOw-0002H3-8A for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 01:56:42 -0400 Received: from host.gofardesign.uk ([208.79.239.190]:35532) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefan@HIDDEN>) id 1iQmOt-0002Gj-Oo; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 01:56:41 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=7lx8dpkpAPupH2qpV03pYmnCdc02OU/h7t27ySIEBTE=; b=j3qXxneklvxWxOYDN+SgaZmdgl cjdmbbz0l3xMu55Orh3KebnrGgEi841Im/yMZGfvSgNHbGmHV4gZtNkS37OlMckfAwHtvkKr1VDZO SxHelMZ01SAVmbrpv9EJnvxDGZSKcXhlCI0Y8jOzRA4Nk7VDC6CWcveUabcmoKZskQVw=; Received: from h-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:41152 helo=localhost) by host.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <stefan@HIDDEN>) id 1iQmOn-0001p3-7Z; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 00:56:33 -0500 From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> To: "Otto Maddox" <ottomaddox@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: 23.1.50; Scrolling ugliness In-Reply-To: <1248783530.20666.1327145393@HIDDEN> (Otto Maddox's message of "Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:18:50 +0100") References: <1248783530.20666.1327145393@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 06:56:31 +0100 Message-ID: <87mudehldc.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: host.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@HIDDEN X-Authenticated-Sender: host.gofardesign.uk: stefan@HIDDEN X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control Cc: 3956 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) retitle 3956 Scroll bar thumb changes size when scrolling on macOS found 3956 27.0.50 thanks "Otto Maddox" <ottomaddox@HIDDEN> writes: > When scrolling up and down by using the keyboard, or dragging the scroll > bar thumb, the thumb will noticeably change size. This is ugly and very > distracting. I can verify this still happens on macOS using current master. > Worse, trying to use the scroll wheel results in motion which is > jagged, unpredictable and ridiculously sensitive, and usually > overshoots so badly that it's completely useless. I think this has since been fixed. Best regards, Stefan Kangas
Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2019 05:56:42 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 02 01:56:42 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57978 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1iQmOw-0002H3-8A for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 01:56:42 -0400 Received: from host.gofardesign.uk ([208.79.239.190]:35532) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefan@HIDDEN>) id 1iQmOt-0002Gj-Oo; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 01:56:41 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=7lx8dpkpAPupH2qpV03pYmnCdc02OU/h7t27ySIEBTE=; b=j3qXxneklvxWxOYDN+SgaZmdgl cjdmbbz0l3xMu55Orh3KebnrGgEi841Im/yMZGfvSgNHbGmHV4gZtNkS37OlMckfAwHtvkKr1VDZO SxHelMZ01SAVmbrpv9EJnvxDGZSKcXhlCI0Y8jOzRA4Nk7VDC6CWcveUabcmoKZskQVw=; Received: from h-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:41152 helo=localhost) by host.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <stefan@HIDDEN>) id 1iQmOn-0001p3-7Z; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 00:56:33 -0500 From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> To: "Otto Maddox" <ottomaddox@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: 23.1.50; Scrolling ugliness In-Reply-To: <1248783530.20666.1327145393@HIDDEN> (Otto Maddox's message of "Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:18:50 +0100") References: <1248783530.20666.1327145393@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 06:56:31 +0100 Message-ID: <87mudehldc.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: host.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@HIDDEN X-Authenticated-Sender: host.gofardesign.uk: stefan@HIDDEN X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control Cc: 3956 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) retitle 3956 Scroll bar thumb changes size when scrolling on macOS found 3956 27.0.50 thanks "Otto Maddox" <ottomaddox@HIDDEN> writes: > When scrolling up and down by using the keyboard, or dragging the scroll > bar thumb, the thumb will noticeably change size. This is ugly and very > distracting. I can verify this still happens on macOS using current master. > Worse, trying to use the scroll wheel results in motion which is > jagged, unpredictable and ridiculously sensitive, and usually > overshoots so badly that it's completely useless. I think this has since been fixed. Best regards, Stefan Kangas
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Subject: bug#3956: Happens on Windows too
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Height of the scrollbar thumb changes while scrolling on Windows too.
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Subject: bug#3956: Happens on Windows too
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(message from Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala on Sat, 21 Aug 2021 23:40:48
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> From: Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala <villemarkus.ylisuutala@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 23:40:48 +0300
>
> Height of the scrollbar thumb changes while scrolling on Windows too.
That's how the scroll-bar thumb was designed to work in Emacs.
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Subject: bug#3956: Happens on Windows too
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From: Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala <villemarkus.ylisuutala@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 23:35:43 +0300
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On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 9:06 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:
>
> > From: Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala <villemarkus.ylisuutala@HIDDEN>
> > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 23:40:48 +0300
> >
> > Height of the scrollbar thumb changes while scrolling on Windows too.
>
> That's how the scroll-bar thumb was designed to work in Emacs.
By height changing I mean the tallness of the thumb, not its position
on the scrollbar. My display resolution is 1920 x 1080. If I start
Emacs with emacs -Q, click the maximize window button in the top right
corner, and go to the tutorial by pressing C-h t. The scrollbar thumb
is now 24 pixels tall. Now if I press C-v to scroll down, the
scrollbar thumb grows to be 42 pixels tall.
Is it actually meant to work this way? GTK+ Emacs on my Debian machine
does not change the size of the scrollbar thumb as I scroll.
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#3956: Happens on Windows too
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> From: Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala <villemarkus.ylisuutala@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 23:35:43 +0300
> Cc: 3956 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
> On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 9:06 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala <villemarkus.ylisuutala@HIDDEN>
> > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 23:40:48 +0300
> > >
> > > Height of the scrollbar thumb changes while scrolling on Windows too.
> >
> > That's how the scroll-bar thumb was designed to work in Emacs.
>
> By height changing I mean the tallness of the thumb, not its position
> on the scrollbar.
Yes, that's what I meant.
> My display resolution is 1920 x 1080. If I start
> Emacs with emacs -Q, click the maximize window button in the top right
> corner, and go to the tutorial by pressing C-h t. The scrollbar thumb
> is now 24 pixels tall. Now if I press C-v to scroll down, the
> scrollbar thumb grows to be 42 pixels tall.
>
> Is it actually meant to work this way? GTK+ Emacs on my Debian machine
> does not change the size of the scrollbar thumb as I scroll.
The thumb reflects the size in characters, not in screen lines, so it
cannot be constant as you scroll, especially if lines in the buffer
differ a lot in their length.
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#3956: Scroll bar thumb changes size when scrolling on macOS
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tags 3956 + notabug
close 3956
thanks
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
>> From: Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala <villemarkus.ylisuutala@HIDDEN>
>> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 23:35:43 +0300
>> Cc: 3956 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 9:06 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:
>> >
>> > > From: Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala <villemarkus.ylisuutala@HIDDEN>
>> > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 23:40:48 +0300
>> > >
>> > > Height of the scrollbar thumb changes while scrolling on Windows too.
>> >
>> > That's how the scroll-bar thumb was designed to work in Emacs.
>>
>> By height changing I mean the tallness of the thumb, not its position
>> on the scrollbar.
>
> Yes, that's what I meant.
>
>> My display resolution is 1920 x 1080. If I start
>> Emacs with emacs -Q, click the maximize window button in the top right
>> corner, and go to the tutorial by pressing C-h t. The scrollbar thumb
>> is now 24 pixels tall. Now if I press C-v to scroll down, the
>> scrollbar thumb grows to be 42 pixels tall.
>>
>> Is it actually meant to work this way? GTK+ Emacs on my Debian machine
>> does not change the size of the scrollbar thumb as I scroll.
>
> The thumb reflects the size in characters, not in screen lines, so it
> cannot be constant as you scroll, especially if lines in the buffer
> differ a lot in their length.
Then I conclude that this works as designed on macOS, and I'm closing
this bug.
(That said, this is an unusual feature, IMHO.)
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charset="UTF-8" Bcc: control <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control Cc: Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala <villemarkus.ylisuutala@HIDDEN>, 3956 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 3956 + notabug close 3956 thanks Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> From: Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala <villemarkus.ylisuutala@HIDDEN> >> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 23:35:43 +0300 >> Cc: 3956 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> >> On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 9:06 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote: >> > >> > > From: Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala <villemarkus.ylisuutala@HIDDEN> >> > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 23:40:48 +0300 >> > > >> > > Height of the scrollbar thumb changes while scrolling on Windows too. >> > >> > That's how the scroll-bar thumb was designed to work in Emacs. >> >> By height changing I mean the tallness of the thumb, not its position >> on the scrollbar. > > Yes, that's what I meant. > >> My display resolution is 1920 x 1080. If I start >> Emacs with emacs -Q, click the maximize window button in the top right >> corner, and go to the tutorial by pressing C-h t. The scrollbar thumb >> is now 24 pixels tall. Now if I press C-v to scroll down, the >> scrollbar thumb grows to be 42 pixels tall. >> >> Is it actually meant to work this way? GTK+ Emacs on my Debian machine >> does not change the size of the scrollbar thumb as I scroll. > > The thumb reflects the size in characters, not in screen lines, so it > cannot be constant as you scroll, especially if lines in the buffer > differ a lot in their length. Then I conclude that this works as designed on macOS, and I'm closing this bug. (That said, this is an unusual feature, IMHO.)
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charset="UTF-8" Bcc: control <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control Cc: Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala <villemarkus.ylisuutala@HIDDEN>, 3956 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 3956 + notabug close 3956 thanks Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> From: Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala <villemarkus.ylisuutala@HIDDEN> >> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 23:35:43 +0300 >> Cc: 3956 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> >> On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 9:06 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote: >> > >> > > From: Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala <villemarkus.ylisuutala@HIDDEN> >> > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 23:40:48 +0300 >> > > >> > > Height of the scrollbar thumb changes while scrolling on Windows too. >> > >> > That's how the scroll-bar thumb was designed to work in Emacs. >> >> By height changing I mean the tallness of the thumb, not its position >> on the scrollbar. > > Yes, that's what I meant. > >> My display resolution is 1920 x 1080. If I start >> Emacs with emacs -Q, click the maximize window button in the top right >> corner, and go to the tutorial by pressing C-h t. The scrollbar thumb >> is now 24 pixels tall. Now if I press C-v to scroll down, the >> scrollbar thumb grows to be 42 pixels tall. >> >> Is it actually meant to work this way? GTK+ Emacs on my Debian machine >> does not change the size of the scrollbar thumb as I scroll. > > The thumb reflects the size in characters, not in screen lines, so it > cannot be constant as you scroll, especially if lines in the buffer > differ a lot in their length. Then I conclude that this works as designed on macOS, and I'm closing this bug. (That said, this is an unusual feature, IMHO.)
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