GNU logs - #43073, boring messages


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Subject: bug#43073: Trim/hide full email headers on debbugs
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X-GNU-PR-Message: report 43073
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--------------FB490329F8BC3E9F1AC3C134--




Message sent:


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X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Ruben Rodriguez <ruben@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#43073: Acknowledgement (Trim/hide full email headers on debbugs)
Message-ID: <handler.43073.B.159855140321861.ack <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
References: <54914282-56ba-67bf-e620-c3e5bf928e31@HIDDEN>
X-Gnu-PR-Message: ack 43073
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Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 18:04:02 +0000

Thank you for filing a new bug report with debbugs.gnu.org.

This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message
has been received.

Your message is being forwarded to the package maintainers and other
interested parties for their attention; they will reply in due course.

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send it to 43073 <at> debbugs.gnu.org.

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to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system.

--=20
43073: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D43073
GNU Bug Tracking System
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From: Bob Proulx <bob@HIDDEN>
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Ruben Rodriguez wrote:
> RT ticket 1599321 requests not showing full email headers on debbugs, a
> privacy violation. I'm sending this on behalf of the reporter, please DTRT.

On IRC this URL was passed as being in the original report:

    rwp: the requestor referenced this link: https://debbugs.gnu.org/db/39/39688.html

That is an alternative view to:

    https://bugs.debian.org/63995

I also note that there is nothing new under the sun.  This is really a
duplicate of the upstream BTS Debian Bug#63995.

    https://bugs.debian.org/63995

Bob




Message sent to help-debbugs@HIDDEN:


X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#43073: complaint
References: <54914282-56ba-67bf-e620-c3e5bf928e31@HIDDEN>
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Hello Norbert,

Ruben said someone opened a sysadmin RT ticket and then Ruben opened a
BTS ticket on that person's behalf.  That was all that we knew.  But
now that I see this message from you I am forwarding this message so
that it will be in the correct ticket.

Bob

----- Forwarded message from Norbert de Jonge -----

Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 12:44:42 +0200
From: Norbert de Jonge
To: owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: gnu@HIDDEN
Subject: complaint

Hello,

I very much object to full email headers being shown here
https://debbugs.gnu.org/db/39/39688.html

It's an unnecessary invasion of my privacy.

Best regards,
Norbert

----- End forwarded message -----




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Bob Proulx wrote:

> I also note that there is nothing new under the sun.  This is really a
> duplicate of the upstream BTS Debian Bug#63995.
>
>     https://bugs.debian.org/63995

I would say it is kind of new, since I don't recall seeing the specific
complaint "I object to full email headers being shown" before.

IMO debbugs.gnu.org is a bit better than bugs.debian.org in this area,
since the former does at least basic email obscuration, and in fact
tries to totally remove email addresses from the static pages such as
https://debbugs.gnu.org/db/39/39688.html (which are the ones indexed by
search engines). I think a better link for that ara would be
https://debbugs.gnu.org/14811

I don't see much value in having the full headers in the static db
pages, so it seems fine to me if someone wants to remove them. (Obviously
they will remain in the downloadable mbox files.) But debbugs.gnu.org
development is moribund.




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I see we have yet another complaint about IP addresses.  Two if I
count the other mailing list complaint too.  Personally I have no
understanding of what people are thinking with regards to IP
addresses.  I think I will blame Hollywood movies on it.  Hollywood
makes people think it means something that it does not mean.

In any case yet again the complaint was about the db links.  It's
really only the db tree view that people are complaining about.

    https://debbugs.gnu.org/db/XY/XYABC.html

I use the BTS a lot but really I had never looked at the db views
before these complaints.  Is there a use for the db views?

What do people think of disabling the display of the entire db view
tree?  I propose to do this unless someone tells me not to.

Just keep it simple and take the brute force and ignorance approach
and add in another apache server rewrite rule redirect so that the
entire tree is redirected to the document root.  In one action that
would make all of those views unavailable and perhaps would stop the
complaints.  WDYT?

Bob




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I see we have yet another complaint about IP addresses.  Two if I
count the other mailing list complaint too.  Personally I have no
understanding of what people are thinking with regards to IP
addresses.  I think I will blame Hollywood movies on it.  Hollywood
makes people think it means something that it does not mean.

In any case yet again the complaint was about the db links.  It's
really only the db tree view that people are complaining about.

    https://debbugs.gnu.org/db/XY/XYABC.html

I use the BTS a lot but really I had never looked at the db views
before these complaints.  Is there a use for the db views?

What do people think of disabling the display of the entire db view
tree?  I propose to do this unless someone tells me not to.

Just keep it simple and take the brute force and ignorance approach
and add in another apache server rewrite rule redirect so that the
entire tree is redirected to the document root.  In one action that
would make all of those views unavailable and perhaps would stop the
complaints.  WDYT?

Bob




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Bob Proulx <bob@HIDDEN> writes:

Hi Bob,

> I see we have yet another complaint about IP addresses.  Two if I
> count the other mailing list complaint too.  Personally I have no
> understanding of what people are thinking with regards to IP
> addresses.  I think I will blame Hollywood movies on it.  Hollywood
> makes people think it means something that it does not mean.
>
> In any case yet again the complaint was about the db links.  It's
> really only the db tree view that people are complaining about.
>
>     https://debbugs.gnu.org/db/XY/XYABC.html
>
> I use the BTS a lot but really I had never looked at the db views
> before these complaints.  Is there a use for the db views?
>
> What do people think of disabling the display of the entire db view
> tree?  I propose to do this unless someone tells me not to.
>
> Just keep it simple and take the brute force and ignorance approach
> and add in another apache server rewrite rule redirect so that the
> entire tree is redirected to the document root.  In one action that
> would make all of those views unavailable and perhaps would stop the
> complaints.  WDYT?

Looks reasonable to me.

I add Lars as Cc. I know he's collecting stats about debbugs.org, and I
don't know whether he needs the db links for retrieval of data.

> Bob

Best regards, Michael.




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Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2020 09:33:00 +0100
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 "Wed, 2 Dec 2020 23:57:28 -0700")
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Bob Proulx <bob@HIDDEN> writes:

Hi Bob,

> I see we have yet another complaint about IP addresses.  Two if I
> count the other mailing list complaint too.  Personally I have no
> understanding of what people are thinking with regards to IP
> addresses.  I think I will blame Hollywood movies on it.  Hollywood
> makes people think it means something that it does not mean.
>
> In any case yet again the complaint was about the db links.  It's
> really only the db tree view that people are complaining about.
>
>     https://debbugs.gnu.org/db/XY/XYABC.html
>
> I use the BTS a lot but really I had never looked at the db views
> before these complaints.  Is there a use for the db views?
>
> What do people think of disabling the display of the entire db view
> tree?  I propose to do this unless someone tells me not to.
>
> Just keep it simple and take the brute force and ignorance approach
> and add in another apache server rewrite rule redirect so that the
> entire tree is redirected to the document root.  In one action that
> would make all of those views unavailable and perhaps would stop the
> complaints.  WDYT?

Looks reasonable to me.

I add Lars as Cc. I know he's collecting stats about debbugs.org, and I
don't know whether he needs the db links for retrieval of data.

> Bob

Best regards, Michael.




Message sent to help-debbugs@HIDDEN:


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 as Cc. I know he's collecting stats about debbugs.org, and I > don't know
 whether he needs the db links for retrieval of data. I just use the
 debbugs-gnu interfaces when doing stats. Basically: 
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Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> writes:

> I add Lars as Cc. I know he's collecting stats about debbugs.org, and I
> don't know whether he needs the db links for retrieval of data.

I just use the debbugs-gnu interfaces when doing stats.  Basically:

(apply 'debbugs-get-status (debbugs-get-bugs :archive "both"))

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no




Message sent to Ruben Rodriguez <ruben@HIDDEN>:


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 debbugs-gnu interfaces when doing stats. Basically: 
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Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> writes:

> I add Lars as Cc. I know he's collecting stats about debbugs.org, and I
> don't know whether he needs the db links for retrieval of data.

I just use the debbugs-gnu interfaces when doing stats.  Basically:

(apply 'debbugs-get-status (debbugs-get-bugs :archive "both"))

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no




Message sent to help-debbugs@HIDDEN:


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Hi Bob,

Bob Proulx wrote:

>     https://debbugs.gnu.org/db/XY/XYABC.html
>
> I use the BTS a lot but really I had never looked at the db views
> before these complaints.  Is there a use for the db views?
>
> What do people think of disabling the display of the entire db view
> tree?  I propose to do this unless someone tells me not to.

Note that the "db view tree" is the part that gets indexed by search
engines. Search engines are (obviously) denied from the cgi bug pages,
for reasons of system load. So if you get rid of the db pages, it will
be impossible to search debbugs reports using standard web search
engines. There are ways around this, such as searches of the associated
bug mailing lists, and native search on debbugs.gnu.org, but it would
seem like a loss to me, for very little real gain.

Note that the IP address is also in the mbox mailing list archives:
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/mbox/bug-diffutils/2020-02

and now also in the help-debbugs mailing list archives (Streisand effect
ahoy).

The right solution is probably to make the db pages not include full
header information, but of course that is more work. I think it is
/usr/lib/debbugs/db2html that would need patching (already patched to
hide email addresses).




Message sent to help-debbugs@HIDDEN:


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From: Bob Proulx <bob@HIDDEN>
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Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> I just use the debbugs-gnu interfaces when doing stats.  Basically:
> 
> (apply 'debbugs-get-status (debbugs-get-bugs :archive "both"))

Do we know what this does?  I mean does it use the db tree view?  Or
something different?  (I hesitate to ask about the SOAP interface.)

Bob




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Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> I just use the debbugs-gnu interfaces when doing stats.  Basically:
> 
> (apply 'debbugs-get-status (debbugs-get-bugs :archive "both"))

Do we know what this does?  I mean does it use the db tree view?  Or
something different?  (I hesitate to ask about the SOAP interface.)

Bob




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Bob Proulx wrote:
> Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> > I just use the debbugs-gnu interfaces when doing stats.  Basically:
> > 
> > (apply 'debbugs-get-status (debbugs-get-bugs :archive "both"))
> 
> Do we know what this does?  I mean does it use the db tree view?  Or
> something different?  (I hesitate to ask about the SOAP interface.)

In further developments my questions do not matter.  So please ignore
them.  Glenn is teaching me that we need the db tree view regardless.
More in that follow-up message...

Bob




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Bob Proulx wrote:
> Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> > I just use the debbugs-gnu interfaces when doing stats.  Basically:
> > 
> > (apply 'debbugs-get-status (debbugs-get-bugs :archive "both"))
> 
> Do we know what this does?  I mean does it use the db tree view?  Or
> something different?  (I hesitate to ask about the SOAP interface.)

In further developments my questions do not matter.  So please ignore
them.  Glenn is teaching me that we need the db tree view regardless.
More in that follow-up message...

Bob




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Glenn Morris wrote:
> Note that the "db view tree" is the part that gets indexed by search
> engines.

Hmm...  That does explain why when people are complaining that they
are complaining about the db tree view and not the "main" view.  (Main
in IMNHO since the regular report display is the one I use.)

> Search engines are (obviously) denied from the cgi bug pages,
> for reasons of system load. So if you get rid of the db pages, it will
> be impossible to search debbugs reports using standard web search
> engines.

Well...  That does create problems for my suggestion then.

> There are ways around this, such as searches of the associated
> bug mailing lists, and native search on debbugs.gnu.org, but it would
> seem like a loss to me, for very little real gain.

Agreed.  Now that I learn this.

> Note that the IP address is also in the mbox mailing list archives:
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/mbox/bug-diffutils/2020-02

Yes.  But I have yet to see anyone actually complain about those.
(It's possible I have missed seeing a complaint.  But I don't recall
having seen one on the mbox archives.)

> and now also in the help-debbugs mailing list archives (Streisand effect
> ahoy).

Right!  The Streisand effect.  The very act of trying to suppress
something calls attention to it.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Even better John Oliver did a (tremendously humorous but very
irreverent, NSFW due to language) report on this topic too.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-ERajkMXw0#t=4m04s

Usually it is better to let sleeping dogs lie.  Otherwise attempts to
suppress information will only serve to call attention to it.

My best advice to people is to do nothing.

> The right solution is probably to make the db pages not include full
> header information, but of course that is more work. I think it is
> /usr/lib/debbugs/db2html that would need patching (already patched to
> hide email addresses).

Okay then!  I'll look at it.  Won't be today.  I'll put it on the task
queue.  Good that I see it is in Perl as that is a good language for
me.  I don't see where address hidden is done there but I am sure it
will become clear when digging into it.

Bob




Message sent to Ruben Rodriguez <ruben@HIDDEN>:


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Glenn Morris wrote:
> Note that the "db view tree" is the part that gets indexed by search
> engines.

Hmm...  That does explain why when people are complaining that they
are complaining about the db tree view and not the "main" view.  (Main
in IMNHO since the regular report display is the one I use.)

> Search engines are (obviously) denied from the cgi bug pages,
> for reasons of system load. So if you get rid of the db pages, it will
> be impossible to search debbugs reports using standard web search
> engines.

Well...  That does create problems for my suggestion then.

> There are ways around this, such as searches of the associated
> bug mailing lists, and native search on debbugs.gnu.org, but it would
> seem like a loss to me, for very little real gain.

Agreed.  Now that I learn this.

> Note that the IP address is also in the mbox mailing list archives:
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/mbox/bug-diffutils/2020-02

Yes.  But I have yet to see anyone actually complain about those.
(It's possible I have missed seeing a complaint.  But I don't recall
having seen one on the mbox archives.)

> and now also in the help-debbugs mailing list archives (Streisand effect
> ahoy).

Right!  The Streisand effect.  The very act of trying to suppress
something calls attention to it.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Even better John Oliver did a (tremendously humorous but very
irreverent, NSFW due to language) report on this topic too.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-ERajkMXw0#t=4m04s

Usually it is better to let sleeping dogs lie.  Otherwise attempts to
suppress information will only serve to call attention to it.

My best advice to people is to do nothing.

> The right solution is probably to make the db pages not include full
> header information, but of course that is more work. I think it is
> /usr/lib/debbugs/db2html that would need patching (already patched to
> hide email addresses).

Okay then!  I'll look at it.  Won't be today.  I'll put it on the task
queue.  Good that I see it is in Perl as that is a good language for
me.  I don't see where address hidden is done there but I am sure it
will become clear when digging into it.

Bob




Message sent to help-debbugs@HIDDEN:


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Bob Proulx wrote:

> Okay then!  I'll look at it.  Won't be today.  I'll put it on the task
> queue.  Good that I see it is in Perl as that is a good language for
> me.  I don't see where address hidden is done there but I am sure it
> will become clear when digging into it.

Thanks!
Debbugs is all perl. :)

My kludge for hiding emails in /usr/lib/debbugs/db2html was the
hide_address_total function. I don't know if a similar strategy will
work for removing the full mail headers.




Message sent to Ruben Rodriguez <ruben@HIDDEN>:


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Bob Proulx wrote:

> Okay then!  I'll look at it.  Won't be today.  I'll put it on the task
> queue.  Good that I see it is in Perl as that is a good language for
> me.  I don't see where address hidden is done there but I am sure it
> will become clear when digging into it.

Thanks!
Debbugs is all perl. :)

My kludge for hiding emails in /usr/lib/debbugs/db2html was the
hide_address_total function. I don't know if a similar strategy will
work for removing the full mail headers.




Message sent to help-debbugs@HIDDEN:


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Bob Proulx <bob@HIDDEN> writes:

> Okay then!  I'll look at it.  Won't be today.  I'll put it on the task
> queue.  Good that I see it is in Perl as that is a good language for
> me.  I don't see where address hidden is done there but I am sure it
> will become clear when digging into it.

When you have applied the changes, pls tell us. We try to follow them in
a git repository.

> Bob

Best regards, Michael.




Message sent to Ruben Rodriguez <ruben@HIDDEN>:


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Bob Proulx <bob@HIDDEN> writes:

> Okay then!  I'll look at it.  Won't be today.  I'll put it on the task
> queue.  Good that I see it is in Perl as that is a good language for
> me.  I don't see where address hidden is done there but I am sure it
> will become clear when digging into it.

When you have applied the changes, pls tell us. We try to follow them in
a git repository.

> Bob

Best regards, Michael.




Message sent to help-debbugs@HIDDEN:


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From: Bob Proulx <bob@HIDDEN>
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Glenn Morris wrote:
> Note that the "db view tree" is the part that gets indexed by search
> engines. Search engines are (obviously) denied from the cgi bug pages,
> for reasons of system load. So if you get rid of the db pages, it will
> be impossible to search debbugs reports using standard web search
> engines.

I know I asked this in the mailing list but I am going to repeat it
here so it is in the ticket and then add some more.

Where is the seed that the search engines start with to crawl the db
tree?  I couldn't find it.

Meanwhile...  I find this difference between the systems.

    https://debbugs.gnu.org/robots.txt
      User-agent: *
      Disallow: /cgi-bin/
      Disallow: /cgi/

As you say debbugs blocks the robots that comply.

    https://bugs.debian.org/robots.txt
      User-Agent: Googlebot
      User-Agent: bingbot
      User-Agent: yandexbot
      User-Agent: baiduspider
      User-Agent: ia_archiver
      Allow: /cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=
      Allow: /cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=*;dist=unstable$
      Disallow: /*/
      User-agent: *
      Disallow: /

But the upstream allows the robots to crawl the cgi main bug ticket
display pages.  Maybe they have better resources.  Was this allowed on
debbugs previously and then blocked due to load problems?

I am wondering if we should allow it again as a test and then see what
the current state of things results.  Because then the main pages
would be indexed and this would also avoid the problem.  WDYT?

Bob

Me who keeps making crazy brainstorm suggestions and hoping that maybe
eventually one of them might work out beneficially. :-)




Message sent to help-debbugs@HIDDEN:


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Bob Proulx wrote:

> Where is the seed that the search engines start with to crawl the db
> tree?  I couldn't find it.

The db pages are linked from the main page https://debbugs.gnu.org/
Is that what you are asking? ("static indices")

> But the upstream allows the robots to crawl the cgi main bug ticket
> display pages.  Maybe they have better resources.  Was this allowed on
> debbugs previously and then blocked due to load problems?

That is my recollection, but it has been a long time.

> I am wondering if we should allow it again as a test and then see what
> the current state of things results.  Because then the main pages
> would be indexed and this would also avoid the problem.  WDYT?

My initial thought is that it is not a good idea, but feel free to try
it out.

Another idea is that if /usr/lib/debbugs/db2html is impenetrable, just
stick a "formail -I Received:" somewhere near the end of it?
Not the most efficient method, but if it works, may be good enough.





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