GNU bug report logs - #52074
29.0.50; Add key binding for find-library

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Manuel Uberti <manuel.uberti <at> inventati.org>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 29.0.50; Add key binding for find-library
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 07:54:25 +0100

Hello everyone,

I was just wondering if to anyone other than me it would make sense to have a 
default key binding for find-library. This is something I use regularly to 
explore the source code of built-in features and external packages to understand 
more about them.

In my init.el, I have this setting:

(keymap-global-set "C-h C-l" #'find-library)

I picked this key binding for mnemonic reasons (h -> help, l -> library) and 
because 'C-h C-l' seems to be unbound in emacs -Q.

What do you think?

-- 
Manuel Uberti
www.manueluberti.eu



In GNU Emacs 29.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.18, cairo 
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 of 2021-11-24 built on hathaway
Repository revision: d112c75f53c690e6f13ec3b340dbc384425bb04d
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-- 
Manuel Uberti
www.manueluberti.eu

Message #8 received at 52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Manuel Uberti <manuel.uberti <at> inventati.org>
Cc: 52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#52074: 29.0.50; Add key binding for find-library
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 08:20:46 +0100

Manuel Uberti <manuel.uberti <at> inventati.org> writes:

> I was just wondering if to anyone other than me it would make sense to
> have a default key binding for find-library. This is something I use
> regularly to explore the source code of built-in features and external
> packages to understand more about them.

Yes, it's a useful command, so perhaps we should have a default binding
for it.

> In my init.el, I have this setting:
>
> (keymap-global-set "C-h C-l" #'find-library)
>
> I picked this key binding for mnemonic reasons (h -> help, l ->
> library) and because 'C-h C-l' seems to be unbound in emacs -Q.

Hm...  Finding a library isn't exactly a help command, so I think it
would be somewhat confusing to put it there.  But I don't have a good
suggestion for where to put otherwise.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #11 received at 52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Manuel Uberti <manuel.uberti <at> inventati.org>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#52074: 29.0.50; Add key binding for find-library
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 08:26:11 +0100

On 24/11/21 08:20, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> Hm...  Finding a library isn't exactly a help command, so I think it
> would be somewhat confusing to put it there.  But I don't have a good
> suggestion for where to put otherwise.

You're right. What about using a prefix like C-x 7 and add something like:

- C-x 7 l for find-library

Then these can be considered as well:

- C-x 7 f for find-function
- C-x 7 v for find-variable

-- 
Manuel Uberti
www.manueluberti.eu

Message #14 received at 52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: Manuel Uberti <manuel.uberti <at> inventati.org>, 52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#52074: 29.0.50; Add key binding for find-library
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 01:00:54 +1300

On 2021-11-24 20:20, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> Manuel Uberti <manuel.uberti <at> inventati.org> writes:
>> I picked this key binding for mnemonic reasons (h -> help, l ->
>> library) and because 'C-h C-l' seems to be unbound in emacs -Q.
> 
> Hm...  Finding a library isn't exactly a help command, so I think it
> would be somewhat confusing to put it there.  But I don't have a good
> suggestion for where to put otherwise.

Library commentaries are one of the primary sources of documentation
in Emacs, so I think it's pretty help-related.

FWIW I use this same binding, and in my mind it makes excellent sense
to use C-h C-l for `find-library' if you also have:

C-h C-v for `find-variable'
C-h C-f for `find-function'
C-h C-k for `find-function-on-key'

All of which feel (to me) analogous to C-h v, C-h f, and C-h k: Without
the Ctrl modifier you view the docstrings; with it you view the code.

(Admittedly C-h l is unconnected, but that hasn't bothered me.  
Following
my pattern that would probably be bound to `finder-commentary', but I'm
not suggesting we move `view-lossage' elsewhere.)

I guess my main point is that I do think of *all* of these things as
help-related, as I consider reading the code as just the next step up
from reading the docstrings.


-Phil

Message #17 received at 52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Manuel Uberti <manuel.uberti <at> inventati.org>
Cc: 52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#52074: 29.0.50; Add key binding for find-library
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 18:16:14 +0100

Manuel Uberti <manuel.uberti <at> inventati.org> writes:

> You're right. What about using a prefix like C-x 7 and add something like:
>
> - C-x 7 l for find-library
>
> Then these can be considered as well:
>
> - C-x 7 f for find-function
> - C-x 7 v for find-variable

Hm...  We've got a variety of stuff on `C-x <num>', but mostly things
that deal with windows/tabs/frames.  But perhaps it might make sense to
put a `find-*' keymap there.

Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz> writes:

> FWIW I use this same binding, and in my mind it makes excellent sense
> to use C-h C-l for `find-library' if you also have:
>
> C-h C-v for `find-variable'
> C-h C-f for `find-function'
> C-h C-k for `find-function-on-key'
>
> All of which feel (to me) analogous to C-h v, C-h f, and C-h k: Without
> the Ctrl modifier you view the docstrings; with it you view the code.

Unfortunately `C-h C-f' is taken, but this makes sense.

> (Admittedly C-h l is unconnected, but that hasn't bothered me.
> Following
> my pattern that would probably be bound to `finder-commentary', but I'm
> not suggesting we move `view-lossage' elsewhere.)
>
> I guess my main point is that I do think of *all* of these things as
> help-related, as I consider reading the code as just the next step up
> from reading the docstrings.

That's a good point.

I doubt `C-h C-f' is used that often, so perhaps we could consider
moving it and binding these four find-* commands to the `C-h' map.

Anybody else with opinions or ideas here?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #20 received at 52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Manuel Uberti <manuel.uberti <at> inventati.org>, "52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org"
 <52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : bug#52074: 29.0.50; Add key binding for find-library
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 18:21:25 +0000

> I was just wondering if to anyone other than me it would make sense to have
> a default key binding for find-library. This is something I use regularly to
> explore the source code of built-in features and external packages to
> understand more about them.
> 
> In my init.el, I have this setting:
> (keymap-global-set "C-h C-l" #'find-library)
> 
> I picked this key binding for mnemonic reasons (h -> help, l -> library) and
> because 'C-h C-l' seems to be unbound in emacs -Q.
> 
> What do you think?

Yes. See bug #51240. I use `C-x 4 l' for my
`find-library-other-window'.  (I almost never
want to switch to the library in the same window.)

Message #23 received at 52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: Manuel Uberti <manuel.uberti <at> inventati.org>, 52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#52074: 29.0.50; Add key binding for find-library
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 20:29:47 +0200

forcemerge 51240 52074
quit

> Anybody else with opinions or ideas here?

This is duplicate of https://debbugs.gnu.org/51240
where both using the C-h keymap or C-x L/C-x 4 L/C-x 5 L
were proposed without a conclusive decision which one to prefer.

Message #28 received at 52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Manuel Uberti <manuel.uberti <at> inventati.org>, "52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org"
 <52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : bug#52074: 29.0.50; Add key binding for find-library
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 18:32:00 +0000

> Yes. See bug #51240.

Even that one was a duplicate of #26712? and #2270.
Those haven't gotten anywhere.  But maybe you'll have 
better luck...  This goes back at least 14 years.

See, for example: 

https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=26712#8

Message #31 received at 52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>, Manuel Uberti
 <manuel.uberti <at> inventati.org>
Cc: "52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : bug#52074: 29.0.50; Add key binding for find-library
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 18:55:22 +0000

> Anybody else with opinions or ideas here?

Yes, and they've been expressed many times, in
the multiple emacs-devel and duplicate bug threads
about this.

Message #34 received at 52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz>, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: Manuel Uberti <manuel.uberti <at> inventati.org>,
 "52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : bug#52074: 29.0.50; Add key binding for find-library
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 21:06:56 +0000

[Sending again.  Didn't show up in the bug list for some reason.] 

> Library commentaries are one of the primary sources of documentation
> in Emacs, so I think it's pretty help-related.

True.  But we also have `finder-commentary' for that aspect.

> FWIW I use this same binding, and in my mind it makes excellent sense
> to use C-h C-l for `find-library' if you also have:
> 
> C-h C-v for `find-variable'
> C-h C-f for `find-function'
> C-h C-k for `find-function-on-key'
> 
> All of which feel (to me) analogous to C-h v, C-h f, and C-h k: Without
> the Ctrl modifier you view the docstrings; with it you view the code.
> 
> (Admittedly C-h l is unconnected, but that hasn't bothered me.
> Following
> my pattern that would probably be bound to `finder-commentary', but I'm
> not suggesting we move `view-lossage' elsewhere.)
> 
> I guess my main point is that I do think of *all* of these things as
> help-related, as I consider reading the code as just the next step up
> from reading the docstrings.

It's good to discuss this, and I'm glad to see
people giving _reasons_ for proposals/opinions.
I wish that were more often the case.

To my mind `find-library' fits most closely with
`find-file'.  I put my `other-window' version on
`C-x 4 l' as analogy to `C-x 4 f'.

Message #37 received at 52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: "51240 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <51240 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>,
 Howard Melman <hmelman <at> gmail.com>, 52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Subject: Re: bug#52074: 29.0.50; Add key binding for find-library
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 12:49:55 +0200

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

>> Thanks for the explanation, I think it makes sense to add
>> C-x L, C-x 4 L, C-x 5 L to find-function-setup-keys.
>
> Makes sense to me.

So I've now done this in Emacs 29.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #42 received at 52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>, Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: "51240 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <51240 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>,
 Howard Melman <hmelman <at> gmail.com>,
 "52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <52074 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#52074: 29.0.50; Add key binding for
 find-library
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 15:40:45 +0000

> >> Thanks for the explanation, I think it makes sense to add
> >> C-x L, C-x 4 L, C-x 5 L to find-function-setup-keys.
> >
> > Makes sense to me.
> 
> So I've now done this in Emacs 29.

Finally.

But as I said in bug #51240, which is a duplicate
of this one:

 [Isn't this essentially bug #26712? and 2270? (which
  was closed as Done, but with no key binding)]

At least 3 duplicate bugs, + discussion in emacs-devel.
15 years.

It's taken 15 years to get this done, from my initial
proposal to add the -other-window/frame versions, and
my suggestion of `C-x 4 l' and `C-x 5 l' bindings.

Yes, you should have used lowercase `l'.  From #26712:

  I almost _never_ use `count-lines-page', and I use
  `find-library-other-window' several times a day.
  And I'm probably one of the few people who actually
  does use page commands.  That's just not that useful
  a command, for me.)

And `find-function-setup-keys' shouldn't hardcode the
keys anyway - it should use a user option.

And this isn't even (at all) about finding a function.
There's no reason to put finding a _library_ on
`find-function-setup-keys'.  But I repeat myself...

https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=2270

https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=26712#8

https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=26712#44

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-03/msg01073.html

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-06/msg01306.html

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