Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at 56796) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jul 2022 16:16:49 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 29 12:16:49 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33334 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oHSfI-0002hR-Qw for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Jul 2022 12:16:49 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f194.google.com ([209.85.215.194]:45938) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <visuweshm@HIDDEN>) id 1oHSfB-0002gq-Cw for 56796 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Jul 2022 12:16:37 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f194.google.com with SMTP id f65so4356577pgc.12 for <56796 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 29 Jul 2022 09:16:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc; bh=cjmfhnP3k/YlTAZVGiOWA1SaPtp6FyZLjyVkeYBEFVk=; b=U7q+Wi5FkRghIwN7pIi1Sa/Q9KXn+r8Jgkdv5pnMMAnJd26pInS4y3nFi4ajvMlhPa f8NranAGaJRm9f2reZWHKgBs/2jmp3HJmC4uGT7sLGk6b0ORaT7qkXjn2OnTzZHjbQsw +S+yKbL9/qX36AMo4pJ/LDlw9GYFT5dPUUoGEOxRAJtb3q8wEZQ5X1jGjcKB27lX+8qf Ur+uahVdml+usd9Fa4+Vk9ncolMEXps81pzpJpDS5X5Kdwb3jbB514891jLeLlLftX+q 7bbpnTyxT7mDV8rSJ7gUmF6YEaqDnJnhkEjrjvwEOyZJXG5WH7rl9dhE/UbXITcM0QIn pLhw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc; bh=cjmfhnP3k/YlTAZVGiOWA1SaPtp6FyZLjyVkeYBEFVk=; b=i8+CUZzFrWM5pga2ZnjH6DZtGlL/DyW/9wS4XAdYXmUIYrcCCodllbZou3u2sMgz1/ DKe6YDh9adCBLCWOhcYy363zzqqi4threYYmofuHEbAyLb4Ddc87/1yj4AoEOEO70pug bd4SWirMiOxKZ/G8nvOaKH+xSColfw8pZ2Uzs2NFm2qKpsmrDQT0aiY6f/0YaapBVukV J1K+WzMbJ2tZIVY7pY/EdwIhWYGTNQhrr1vPMkXzAtkiaJ5aSHi2cE1RZdgh5l2n+/q/ 0Ffx/4hRSgQXJCDdBO5L10GFzPc0goDqL6t2gQ8D3T9mRq6H8FLK6IfEpgkZadEOv9aW mktg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora8HQ0sGg4l7q728on8PaYCJKt+XpiJoBfSwYXsyaV7GxKEWknMU YxXbaSFlH39VVOfMVy75WCo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1t25SYFutVfW6oqnGl/Uv90sMJT5J03XeU5gVYNwSAcUFw3xV+2SE/0acFZicAS81kIL6WGug== X-Received: by 2002:a63:8542:0:b0:415:3194:cc76 with SMTP id u63-20020a638542000000b004153194cc76mr3542644pgd.431.1659111387557; Fri, 29 Jul 2022 09:16:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([49.204.115.236]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s4-20020aa78bc4000000b00528ce53a4a6sm3033506pfd.196.2022.07.29.09.16.25 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 29 Jul 2022 09:16:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56796: 29.0.50; Hard newlines not respected in code comments? In-Reply-To: <jwv8roc7wtp.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (Stefan Monnier via's message of "Fri, 29 Jul 2022 11:41:26 -0400") References: <8735ema73q.fsf@HIDDEN> <83k07xaea1.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwv1qu49eop.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <87fsikynn1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bkt8ynbh.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwv8roc7wtp.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 21:46:16 +0530 Message-ID: <874jyzzygf.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56796 Cc: eliz@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, 56796 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) [=E0=AE=B5=E0=AF=86=E0=AE=B3=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B3=E0=AE=BF =E0=AE=9C=E0=AF=82= =E0=AE=B2=E0=AF=88 29, 2022] Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,= the Swiss army knife of text editors" wrote: >> More generally: I'm not sure how common this pattern is but I tend to do >> >> ;; TODO/FIXME: Something... >> ;; Ideas and thoughts on how to clear it here. >> >> Now if you do M-q there, your neatly arranged text is destroyed. (I am >> probably biased) I also catch this pattern in the Emacs source tree as >> well. > > It never occurred to me to use hard newlines for such cases. What I use > instead is either: > - add extra newlines to mark the paragraph boundaries to use > (that's just as easy as adding hard newlines, but requires removing > those extra newlines afterward). This is what I did but frankly I am really tired of this pattern since when you go back to revise the text, you have to do the thing yet again. (Granted, you only avoid this when you haven't killed the buffer or Emacs but we don't do that here, do we? ;-) > - Select the intended paragraph rather than rely on M-q's automatic > decision of what's a paragraph. I always forget that M-q takes an active region, this is a viable option as well. I think the first option is quicker though. > Hard newlines are a good idea, for this use-case, indeed, tho it would > be even better if we could somehow represent that info in the text > itself so it's properly saved into the file. You're not the first one: https://yhetil.org/emacs-devel/CAArVCkQHmwqHvcOEu= rBYLcWS74nov8OAH4fnX8XbUr2JY2nCKA@HIDDEN/ [=E0=AE=B5=E0=AF=86=E0=AE=B3=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B3=E0=AE=BF =E0=AE=9C=E0=AF=82= =E0=AE=B2=E0=AF=88 29, 2022] Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,= the Swiss army knife of text editors" wrote: >> But maybe me using hard newlines to tame adaptive-fill-mode is the wrong >> approach: I would like to write lists such as >> >> . blah blah blah >> . blah blah blah > > I'm not sure "." should be accepted by default, but... Indeed, it's a bit too "out there" if you know what I mean. >> I can't blame adaptive-fill-mode for it: it can only be ever so smart >> and hard newlines seemed like the solution for "when I say newline, I >> MEAN IT". > > I do think it's worth a bug report, because we should handle at least > some "common" cases of itemized lists in ELisp comments, and AFAIK we > currently don't handle any at all. When I was searching for discussions on adaptive-fill-mode in emacs-devel to make sense of it, I found the past you agreeing with me in the wild. The discussion can be found here: https://yhetil.org/emacs-de= vel/jwvk5wvx5jv.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN/ but I'm not sure what happened afterwards. Hmm... but now that I re-read it, it is not the same problem but it is a problem that often bites me in the back.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56796; Package emacs.
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In-Reply-To: <jwv8roc7wtp.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (Stefan Monnier via's message of "Fri, 29 Jul 2022 11:41:26 -0400") References: <8735ema73q.fsf@HIDDEN> <83k07xaea1.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwv1qu49eop.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <87fsikynn1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bkt8ynbh.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwv8roc7wtp.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 21:46:16 +0530 Message-ID: <874jyzzygf.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::542; envelope-from=visuweshm@HIDDEN; helo=mail-pg1-x542.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: eliz@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, 56796 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) [=E0=AE=B5=E0=AF=86=E0=AE=B3=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B3=E0=AE=BF =E0=AE=9C=E0=AF=82= =E0=AE=B2=E0=AF=88 29, 2022] Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,= the Swiss army knife of text editors" wrote: >> More generally: I'm not sure how common this pattern is but I tend to do >> >> ;; TODO/FIXME: Something... >> ;; Ideas and thoughts on how to clear it here. >> >> Now if you do M-q there, your neatly arranged text is destroyed. (I am >> probably biased) I also catch this pattern in the Emacs source tree as >> well. > > It never occurred to me to use hard newlines for such cases. What I use > instead is either: > - add extra newlines to mark the paragraph boundaries to use > (that's just as easy as adding hard newlines, but requires removing > those extra newlines afterward). This is what I did but frankly I am really tired of this pattern since when you go back to revise the text, you have to do the thing yet again. (Granted, you only avoid this when you haven't killed the buffer or Emacs but we don't do that here, do we? ;-) > - Select the intended paragraph rather than rely on M-q's automatic > decision of what's a paragraph. I always forget that M-q takes an active region, this is a viable option as well. I think the first option is quicker though. > Hard newlines are a good idea, for this use-case, indeed, tho it would > be even better if we could somehow represent that info in the text > itself so it's properly saved into the file. You're not the first one: https://yhetil.org/emacs-devel/CAArVCkQHmwqHvcOEu= rBYLcWS74nov8OAH4fnX8XbUr2JY2nCKA@HIDDEN/ [=E0=AE=B5=E0=AF=86=E0=AE=B3=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B3=E0=AE=BF =E0=AE=9C=E0=AF=82= =E0=AE=B2=E0=AF=88 29, 2022] Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,= the Swiss army knife of text editors" wrote: >> But maybe me using hard newlines to tame adaptive-fill-mode is the wrong >> approach: I would like to write lists such as >> >> . blah blah blah >> . blah blah blah > > I'm not sure "." should be accepted by default, but... Indeed, it's a bit too "out there" if you know what I mean. >> I can't blame adaptive-fill-mode for it: it can only be ever so smart >> and hard newlines seemed like the solution for "when I say newline, I >> MEAN IT". > > I do think it's worth a bug report, because we should handle at least > some "common" cases of itemized lists in ELisp comments, and AFAIK we > currently don't handle any at all. When I was searching for discussions on adaptive-fill-mode in emacs-devel to make sense of it, I found the past you agreeing with me in the wild. The discussion can be found here: https://yhetil.org/emacs-de= vel/jwvk5wvx5jv.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN/ but I'm not sure what happened afterwards. Hmm... but now that I re-read it, it is not the same problem but it is a problem that often bites me in the back.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56796: 29.0.50; Hard newlines not respected in code comments?
In-Reply-To: <87fsikynn1.fsf@HIDDEN> (Visuwesh's message of "Fri, 29 Jul
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> More generally: I'm not sure how common this pattern is but I tend to do
>
> ;; TODO/FIXME: Something...
> ;; Ideas and thoughts on how to clear it here.
>
> Now if you do M-q there, your neatly arranged text is destroyed. (I am
> probably biased) I also catch this pattern in the Emacs source tree as
> well.
It never occurred to me to use hard newlines for such cases. What I use
instead is either:
- add extra newlines to mark the paragraph boundaries to use
(that's just as easy as adding hard newlines, but requires removing
those extra newlines afterward).
- Select the intended paragraph rather than rely on M-q's automatic
decision of what's a paragraph.
Hard newlines are a good idea, for this use-case, indeed, tho it would
be even better if we could somehow represent that info in the text
itself so it's properly saved into the file.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56796; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56796: 29.0.50; Hard newlines not respected in code comments?
In-Reply-To: <87fsikynn1.fsf@HIDDEN> (Visuwesh's message of "Fri, 29 Jul
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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 11:47:09 -0400
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Cc: "Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of
text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>,
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> More generally: I'm not sure how common this pattern is but I tend to do
>
> ;; TODO/FIXME: Something...
> ;; Ideas and thoughts on how to clear it here.
>
> Now if you do M-q there, your neatly arranged text is destroyed. (I am
> probably biased) I also catch this pattern in the Emacs source tree as
> well.
It never occurred to me to use hard newlines for such cases. What I use
instead is either:
- add extra newlines to mark the paragraph boundaries to use
(that's just as easy as adding hard newlines, but requires removing
those extra newlines afterward).
- Select the intended paragraph rather than rely on M-q's automatic
decision of what's a paragraph.
Hard newlines are a good idea, for this use-case, indeed, tho it would
be even better if we could somehow represent that info in the text
itself so it's properly saved into the file.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56796; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56796: 29.0.50; Hard newlines not respected in code comments?
In-Reply-To: <87bkt8ynbh.fsf@HIDDEN> (Visuwesh's message of "Fri, 29 Jul
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> But maybe me using hard newlines to tame adaptive-fill-mode is the wrong
> approach: I would like to write lists such as
>
> . blah blah blah
> . blah blah blah
I'm not sure "." should be accepted by default, but...
> I can't blame adaptive-fill-mode for it: it can only be ever so smart
> and hard newlines seemed like the solution for "when I say newline, I
> MEAN IT".
I do think it's worth a bug report, because we should handle at least
some "common" cases of itemized lists in ELisp comments, and AFAIK we
currently don't handle any at all.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56796; Package emacs.
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From: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN>
To: 56796 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#56796: 29.0.50; Hard newlines not respected in code comments?
In-Reply-To: <87fsikynn1.fsf@HIDDEN> (Visuwesh's message of "Fri, 29 Jul
2022 20:25:14 +0530")
References: <8735ema73q.fsf@HIDDEN> <83k07xaea1.fsf@HIDDEN>
<jwv1qu49eop.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <87fsikynn1.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 20:32:10 +0530
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=E0=AE=B2=E0=AF=88 29, 2022] Visuwesh wrote:
>> At the same time, I'm not sure how important it is to handle hard
>> newlines in ELisp comments, so I'm not sure how important it is to
>> fix this. This bug report only gives a (good) recipe but not a good
>> reason for doing such a thing, so maybe some context explaining how/why
>> such hard newlines can appear in comments would help motivate a fix.
But maybe me using hard newlines to tame adaptive-fill-mode is the wrong
approach: I would like to write lists such as
. blah blah blah
. blah blah blah
without it getting filled to
. blah blah blah. blah blah blah
I can't blame adaptive-fill-mode for it: it can only be ever so smart
and hard newlines seemed like the solution for "when I say newline, I
MEAN IT".
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56796; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of
text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56796: 29.0.50; Hard newlines not respected in code comments?
In-Reply-To: <jwv1qu49eop.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (Stefan Monnier via's
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References: <8735ema73q.fsf@HIDDEN> <83k07xaea1.fsf@HIDDEN>
<jwv1qu49eop.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 20:25:14 +0530
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=E0=AE=B2=E0=AF=88 29, 2022] Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,=
the Swiss army knife of text editors" wrote:
> At the same time, I'm not sure how important it is to handle hard
> newlines in ELisp comments, so I'm not sure how important it is to
> fix this. This bug report only gives a (good) recipe but not a good
> reason for doing such a thing, so maybe some context explaining how/why
> such hard newlines can appear in comments would help motivate a fix.
Well, wrt Elisp comments at least, we have the Commentary section where
we write quite a lot about the package in question where having hard
newlines would be really handy since you write those text like you do in
a regular text buffer.
More generally: I'm not sure how common this pattern is but I tend to do
;; TODO/FIXME: Something...
;; Ideas and thoughts on how to clear it here.
Now if you do M-q there, your neatly arranged text is destroyed. (I am
probably biased) I also catch this pattern in the Emacs source tree as
well.
[ Although not related to Elisp: Documentation for functions/whatever in
Go are written as comments. ]
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56796; Package emacs.
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From: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of
text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56796: 29.0.50; Hard newlines not respected in code comments?
In-Reply-To: <jwv1qu49eop.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (Stefan Monnier via's
message of "Fri, 29 Jul 2022 10:32:21 -0400")
References: <8735ema73q.fsf@HIDDEN> <83k07xaea1.fsf@HIDDEN>
<jwv1qu49eop.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 20:25:14 +0530
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=E0=AE=B2=E0=AF=88 29, 2022] Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,=
the Swiss army knife of text editors" wrote:
> At the same time, I'm not sure how important it is to handle hard
> newlines in ELisp comments, so I'm not sure how important it is to
> fix this. This bug report only gives a (good) recipe but not a good
> reason for doing such a thing, so maybe some context explaining how/why
> such hard newlines can appear in comments would help motivate a fix.
Well, wrt Elisp comments at least, we have the Commentary section where
we write quite a lot about the package in question where having hard
newlines would be really handy since you write those text like you do in
a regular text buffer.
More generally: I'm not sure how common this pattern is but I tend to do
;; TODO/FIXME: Something...
;; Ideas and thoughts on how to clear it here.
Now if you do M-q there, your neatly arranged text is destroyed. (I am
probably biased) I also catch this pattern in the Emacs source tree as
well.
[ Although not related to Elisp: Documentation for functions/whatever in
Go are written as comments. ]
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56796; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56796: 29.0.50; Hard newlines not respected in code comments?
In-Reply-To: <83k07xaea1.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 28 Jul
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> Adding Stefan to CC, who write fill-comment-paragraph. If we want
> use-hard-newlines to be supported in comments, we should modify
> fill-comment-paragraph to honor it in some way, perhaps simply
> deferring to fill-region in that case.
It was many years ago, but IIRC the autor of that code presumed it was
used in "code" and he also presumed that hard newlines are only for
"text", and furthermore it presumed that the two are mutually exclusive.
He was apparently a quite naive young fellow,
At the same time, I'm not sure how important it is to handle hard
newlines in ELisp comments, so I'm not sure how important it is to
fix this. This bug report only gives a (good) recipe but not a good
reason for doing such a thing, so maybe some context explaining how/why
such hard newlines can appear in comments would help motivate a fix.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56796; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56796) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jul 2022 08:20:34 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 28 04:20:34 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57529 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oGykz-0004lP-V5 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Jul 2022 04:20:34 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f193.google.com ([209.85.214.193]:38424) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <visuweshm@HIDDEN>) id 1oGykw-0004l5-Uh for 56796 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Jul 2022 04:20:31 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f193.google.com with SMTP id o3so1179339ple.5 for <56796 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2022 01:20:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=VXAnLY23gKc7p5k/aUCYclmu5772DGQokS2gTOhCnG0=; b=VHtlNOpHLuLMKDTEpFfqHFmMffK7taGq3i6psq9kNd1Ro9SpsDYH4Tipa5pROjO5Yp kZgDdEcbOMLTU5T1aJw/5iSh/fiXqeHf3JH1IAs9Seoc7HxxQ/kpas9H4GlbhUKqN7pn HMICKOm6Cx62rbYgDEXSySq+uHu2Cg7ehPu87iQEM4xIC9COD76MB2H6u+97IagNMmIq oZ+ayKr4JuGKYZicwl/Jr1K1lWuTOzwrXtJVX+dNkjL+gciXNINR5eNqIDFldzfVVv46 DtQHYPYtXLHTeGH9lfcbuNujRnL2AF6Vwn5u9ucSGlGcuXBhRCaDchdfBEqWktUdkKVB 23lg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=VXAnLY23gKc7p5k/aUCYclmu5772DGQokS2gTOhCnG0=; b=x2y6IbKGjXDRPek7XCqN6b/6kB3Q9kQmraMeTkdCG9I87IZCWLuX2wWsAKOVeGyVjF jNHLOUCgB4sWol72V1tfRKRe+vRgLgpiEYxF0Q77el5FUwwVBoqqC8M8XSNr1Nx0nmyY OSMAjuxAAlgrbbK/JW+kAlTG9XoxKFUT/36KbljaliSST9HgjWTmCMxuHLHK37FUFPRY V1PC1hGx0WQyNTZkwk152hcnylDzU+6ggeXj7R2SzlQFXk4i9uE12tmnA55LAba0Okjh EsMGr8UkELs5RUYfsZrAOpWgUX35I6z7MelvvuBz4dBBoKXGgGD2M6TtQh1qCWCgbd79 ya0g== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora9u+pi3P8anVAtE3C9qAypeRHQK6lef6LVp5vjReo6Fmp5yTKTT Px884T9GJ9O0YmtQVcfKFbo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1uWXPq9phLXoo99PXFtSA2RAtn4wlikCwUGm5iTSR6f0tRcf0DY0ehBqhhCSi+SGaxbC6ZKzQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:903:245:b0:16b:9c49:6b1c with SMTP id j5-20020a170903024500b0016b9c496b1cmr24480183plh.153.1658996424795; Thu, 28 Jul 2022 01:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([49.204.141.236]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f4-20020a62db04000000b005251fc16ff8sm3497pfg.220.2022.07.28.01.20.23 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 28 Jul 2022 01:20:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56796: 29.0.50; Hard newlines not respected in code comments? In-Reply-To: <83k07xaea1.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 28 Jul 2022 10:26:46 +0300") References: <8735ema73q.fsf@HIDDEN> <83k07xaea1.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 13:50:06 +0530 Message-ID: <87pmhpodhl.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56796 Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, 56796 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) [=E0=AE=B5=E0=AE=BF=E0=AE=AF=E0=AE=BE=E0=AE=B4=E0=AE=A9=E0=AF=8D =E0=AE=9C= =E0=AF=82=E0=AE=B2=E0=AF=88 28, 2022] Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN> >> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2022 21:19:29 +0530 >>=20 >> Are hard newlines supposed to be respected when they are in code >> comments? > > The answer is "it depends", AFAICS. > > The main problem is that fill-comment-paragraph doesn't seem to honor > use-hard-newlines. So any major mode whose fill-paragraph-function > uses that for filling comments will fail to pay attention to hard > newlines in comments. In your scenario, if I set both > fill-paragraph-function and fill-paragraph-handle-comment to nil, hard > newlines in comments are honored as expected. Thanks for the explanation, I figured that was the case. > If we want use-hard-newlines to be supported in comments, we should > modify fill-comment-paragraph to honor it in some way, perhaps simply > deferring to fill-region in that case. That would be most welcome. Hard newlines was the "missing key" in making writing plain text more easy and enjoyable to me.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56796; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56796) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jul 2022 07:26:48 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 28 03:26:48 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57480 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oGxuy-0003Ai-4b for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Jul 2022 03:26:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53408) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oGxuu-0003AS-1v for 56796 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Jul 2022 03:26:47 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:45408) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oGxuo-0002jn-PS; Thu, 28 Jul 2022 03:26:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=YwrbEozYF0LzFsrtYBkfAKTX9KMOv/pgaTvaTkEkJRI=; b=CzlSFfiC/8V3 T+hJrD6r5VOwgehx0gXMmlFE2YHzQkFpZUl1PxCOvNNMbtfRMkBY34mlUIIRCAvEw6vSO2k7EQOON Qdcs/Fxa60GTv7yzf90nVmmW3BlSQ+7SP8Zdz9F/CubaQVTqHVR2Sr4Ry2XcA0VuP+90PywkcPGxL c+FbU7fniCCfzGhYAf2aMVah4m8+HIsISVR3s3HXS9pTcFUt/Y+M2+C/xRNu6Y0BfFsA0uHt0Pn96 3A6gvUihjagTILpv/jZGIUml85K7vB39uQNRyWWl+2J681zB6PTzXbzr1khqrnkOZ9UXVDiIinQOT F7n9DDf6Z28e2NumeGlS7A==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4625 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oGxun-00041h-8v; Thu, 28 Jul 2022 03:26:38 -0400 Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 10:26:46 +0300 Message-Id: <83k07xaea1.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN>, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <8735ema73q.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Visuwesh on Wed, 27 Jul 2022 21:19:29 +0530) Subject: Re: bug#56796: 29.0.50; Hard newlines not respected in code comments? References: <8735ema73q.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56796 Cc: 56796 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN> > Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2022 21:19:29 +0530 > > Are hard newlines supposed to be respected when they are in code > comments? The answer is "it depends", AFAICS. The main problem is that fill-comment-paragraph doesn't seem to honor use-hard-newlines. So any major mode whose fill-paragraph-function uses that for filling comments will fail to pay attention to hard newlines in comments. In your scenario, if I set both fill-paragraph-function and fill-paragraph-handle-comment to nil, hard newlines in comments are honored as expected. use-hard-newlines is weird: it is documented only for Enriched mode, but that is at least incomplete, because we call functions from fill.el high and low in many major modes, so at least some of them inherit the use-hard-newlines-specific code when they call functions which do. For example, AFAICT use-hard-newlines is supported in Lisp doc strings. Adding Stefan to CC, who write fill-comment-paragraph. If we want use-hard-newlines to be supported in comments, we should modify fill-comment-paragraph to honor it in some way, perhaps simply deferring to fill-region in that case.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56796; Package emacs.
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From: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: 29.0.50; Hard newlines not respected in code comments?
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2022 21:19:29 +0530
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Are hard newlines supposed to be respected when they are in code
comments? To demonstrate what I mean consider the two following cases
in emacs -Q and after M-x use-hard-newlines RET,
1. Paste the following lisp comment in the *scratch* buffer
;; This buffer is for text that is not saved, and for Lisp.
;; To create a file, visit it with C-x C-f and enter text in its buffer.
And make the newline after "Lisp." hard (RET C-k works). Then
say M-q, "To create" creeps up to the first line.
2. Paste the following text in a text-mode buffer
This buffer is for text that is not saved, and for Lisp.
To create a file, visit it with C-x C-f and enter text in its buffer.
Then make the newline after "Lisp." hard again. Say M-q now, "To
create" stays in the second line.
(1) happens in python-mode and sh-mode too so I don't think it is
major-mode specific?
In GNU Emacs 29.0.50 (build 26, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw scroll bars)
of 2022-07-22 built on astatine
Repository revision: 12a3137cd381cb743768033e789b900b015041d7
Repository branch: master
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12101003
System Description: Debian GNU/Linux bookworm/sid
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'configure --with-sound=alsa --with-x-toolkit=lucid --with-json
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ucs-normalize uni-confusable textsec-check gnus-bcklg qp network-stream
nsm gnus-async sort gnus-ml nndraft nnmh nnfolder nnmaildir nnagent nnml
vc-backup log-view pcvs-util vc vc-git diff-mode vc-dispatcher nnnil
gnus-agent gnus-srvr gnus-score score-mode nnvirtual gnus-msg gnus-art
mm-uu mml2015 mm-view mml-smime smime gnutls dig nntp gnus-cache
gnus-sum shr pixel-fill kinsoku url-file url-dired svg gnus-group
gnus-undo gnus-start gnus-dbus gnus-cloud nnimap nnmail mail-source utf7
netrc nnoo parse-time iso8601 gnus-spec gnus-int gnus-range message
sendmail yank-media puny rfc822 mml mml-sec epa epg rfc6068 epg-config
mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045
ietf-drums mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader gnus-win gnus nnheader
gnus-util mail-utils range mm-util mail-prsvr face-remap sh-script smie
executable files-x shell-command+ diff cursor-sensor shell pcomplete
server paredit edmacro kmacro eros time-date checkdoc lisp-mnt
flymake-proc flymake project warnings thingatpt wordel-autoloads
sokoban-autoloads ement-autoloads svg-lib-autoloads
taxy-magit-section-autoloads magit-section-autoloads dash-autoloads
taxy-autoloads plz-autoloads nov-autoloads esxml-autoloads kv-autoloads
transmission-autoloads lua-mode-autoloads nix-mode-autoloads
racket-mode-autoloads pos-tip-autoloads faceup-autoloads eros-autoloads
flymake-shellcheck-autoloads writegood-mode-autoloads
siege-mode-autoloads paredit-autoloads puni-autoloads
expand-region-autoloads filladapt-autoloads compose quail
scroll-other-window org-pdftools-autoloads org-noter-autoloads
change-env-autoloads math-delimiters-autoloads doct-autoloads
ob-async-autoloads async-autoloads emacs-ob-racket-autoloads
valign-autoloads cdlatex-autoloads auctex-autoloads tex-site pdf-occur
ibuf-ext ibuffer ibuffer-loaddefs tablist advice tablist-filter
semantic/wisent/comp semantic/wisent semantic/wisent/wisent
semantic/util-modes semantic/util semantic semantic/tag semantic/lex
semantic/fw mode-local cedet pdf-isearch let-alist pdf-misc imenu
pdf-tools package browse-url url url-proxy url-privacy url-expand
url-methods url-history url-cookie generate-lisp-file url-domsuf
url-util mailcap url-handlers url-parse auth-source eieio eieio-core
json map byte-opt url-vars compile comint ansi-color cus-edit edebug
debug backtrace find-func wid-edit pdf-view password-cache jka-compr
pdf-cache pdf-info tq pdf-util pdf-macs image-mode dired-x dired
dired-loaddefs exif pdf-tools-autoloads tablist-autoloads mb-depth
repeat visual-fill-autoloads olivetti-autoloads time format-spec battery
dbus filenotify xml dom disp-table lacarte-autoloads
shell-command-plus-autoloads winner ring delsel cus-load easy-mmode
avy-autoloads finder-inf vc-backup-autoloads compat-autoloads icalendar
diary-lib diary-loaddefs cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs rx filecache
imenu-xref-autoloads derived chemtable-autoloads molar-mass-autoloads
saveplace-pdf-view saveplace bookmark text-property-search pp
saveplace-pdf-view-autoloads pcase inspector-autoloads xr-autoloads
straight-autoloads cl-seq info cl-extra help-mode straight subr-x
cl-macs gv cl-loaddefs cl-lib bytecomp byte-compile cconv vz-nh-theme
vz-options-theme rmc iso-transl tooltip eldoc paren electric uniquify
ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/x-win x-win
term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe
tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register
page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select
scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors
frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic indonesian philippine
cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao
korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech
european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript
charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure
cl-preloaded button loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window
text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule
custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind
inotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting
x-toolkit xinput2 x multi-tty make-network-process emacs)
Memory information:
((conses 16 1185460 222926) (symbols ?0 54909 174) (strings 32 331022 18751) (string-bytes 1 15084068) (vectors 16 124750) (vector-slots 8 2627127 187625) (floats 8 1200 3465) (intervals ?8 120571 4446) (buffers 992 ?P))
Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56796; Package emacs.
Full text available.
GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham,
1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd,
1994-97 Ian Jackson.