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[5.44.169.188]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id k11-20020a2e92cb000000b002945bbb83b9sm174480ljh.89.2023.02.16.04.14.41 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 16 Feb 2023 04:14:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <7d11b200-9ee5-8114-ab22-adce32c68323@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2023 19:14:40 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.7.1 Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem Content-Language: en-US To: 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <jwvfsdi6or0.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@HIDDEN> <jwva63p715r.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@HIDDEN> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@HIDDEN> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@HIDDEN> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@HIDDEN> <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> <11e5c88d-09d1-75a5-5c7c-f8ace552c2d3@HIDDEN> <87lelfnhaa.fsf@localhost> <86zg9upl8h.fsf@HIDDEN> <87pmabyi2r.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87pmabyi2r.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) On 15/02/2023 05:53, Gregor Zattler wrote: > * Tim Cross [2023-02-04; 07:01 +11]: >> >> I don't run Debian or Ubuntu anymore. However, I do recall that debian >> does use a modified Emacs startup which is not part of the standard >> Emacs distribution. They do this to enable the ability to have multiple >> versions of Emacs installed at the same time. > > that would be /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/debian-startup.el This file should be ignored when Emacs is started with --quick (-Q) option, see https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=59882#86 I have not checked patches that may be applied to Emacs core files.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
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Tue, 14 Feb 2023 23:54:23 +0100 From: Gregor Zattler <telegraph@HIDDEN> To: 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <86zg9upl8h.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <jwvfsdi6or0.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@HIDDEN> <jwva63p715r.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@HIDDEN> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@HIDDEN> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@HIDDEN> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@HIDDEN> <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> <11e5c88d-09d1-75a5-5c7c-f8ace552c2d3@HIDDEN> <87lelfnhaa.fsf@localhost> <86zg9upl8h.fsf@HIDDEN> Mail-Followup-To: 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 23:53:48 +0100 Message-ID: <87pmabyi2r.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:NVb33sCNzmNQarK5uPdalqmePp7BG/pU0GIUYg4nA3SIRxQ9NSQ 1LLeOT5HbC/yGhJmi2j6uBhDu3DReX19jR7LCFUVqn6AGYj9zd8AdkuHW24yCQ5Axm/12W1 IUAJ0QzISIHc3uoo7nK5DRCLbnCA4qWXCG/+bhgwOSVhLT2PeY/wsKEzG7DalqB5ymxRBLX WJylG/wgX2VIwzQh1dejg== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:QdfGF+j9Ei4=;pSM6SOmCYIcG8V21YYiPI37cDmR 9ztou05SrHKTtC+nSQxNPe07VOVgNq0h9NUe/9kdxhXCmm1vieKzUQzON3BWLz+0dPElGCJJJ raUO8b+Cca2WO2ZYe3+LFBCTCR6IENkcG9L/WRKSofvZuZcp9fhlw61FhPAlKhnEBsRhMp7Dw BAZMdigvOXj5Jtc09lkAZx/J7iGqrOqFYZdSNz7gg2swr2DFoam3hmnQ0rSBpZ5YPKpfgzHX5 uJRXP7e603lmywRTk3FczkTN9Xbos7NbHjLQv/JkztzlQLlcr31Gk4M25ia+ghUOcCdWnzIOU UxKYKDJaFlvsnphgHWBLKlhO3W5ZdFpVDhq7BvTj5IM1Kdpuj00RmPaTwKRoPRZ7BToDYf6Ar zoO7En30860783nctWWllg86TBZ57/AoiLS42wfk7rVgnpL+O15xYfKywYRgbfGmWjiaW7Cej GdJMX29ed+Nmq5qe2xSwBosr06YhiTQ+ehbeomE1Euu4k/xPr2l6AH+1Ljt9FoWyaFC9pdmVo X6Sz1HUGhPHMfSmiP+IsatUsy29GLcIm+du6unJTc360Q6jnVTZQ79wyMjBCR/dK8IGuf4PMP Dph3dzBpbKiNEkCO/rufvMP3SM9o9V7hvZ+T13QtH+XgQb/Pa/S+ks7px9Kw9mf+2drsHViwJ sWKP7mmA9hT/KXioUkvbYwUMcI893rDm3lEfs0di77dTIOP3P3tqykj5kP9R2a0yZsx5kzvMX uUhLuwEGJbBLQWmtNpK2x3V3uCl+FwDqPaoE8RfeyqcGmfb7oK2cq/5ESFhLZIRZHB7SZWB3x 1BgGDdbhx+XG7WXHFZd47LfO1u039PUVSJ1ROD8MSDZkImCI8Q7+3UAeSYqxGmWa7DVK6q+5d UqtmnFtEPRgSx3/AcrsM/E9iZzE/wWDMtvqdWfGmv1Q2RCjvVop/EokbSfAP8Z7TEGxldMgzt aW5yBA== Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Hi Tim, org-mode and emacs developers, * Tim Cross <theophilusx@HIDDEN> [2023-02-04; 07:01 +11]: > Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: >> Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN> writes: >>> On 27/12/2022 16:47, Ihor Radchenko wrote: >>>> Can you then try to test using Emacs 28? >>>> The main question if whether this has been fixed in newer Emacs relea= ses >>>> or it is also something to do with OS environment. >>> I see quite the same issue with Emacs-28.2 in Debian testing. Compile >>> buffer displays a bit more warnings and usual `org-assert-version' >>> warnings and errors are present as well. It might have another level o= f >>> complexity due to .eln files. I am unsure what happens with calls to >>> undefined macros. >> >> I asked people around to test using Debian, and we do have a >> confirmation that Debian + Emacs 27 and Debian + Emacs 28 do trigger th= e >> error. >> >> I also installed Debian 11.6.0 on virtual machine, and I was also able = to >> trigger the error, following the provided steps, using the Emacs 27 >> installed via apt-get. >> >> The problem seems to be real and appears to be some combination of >> Debian/Ubuntu + Emacs. >> >> Considering the popularity of Debian-based distros, may someone take a >> closer look on what may be going on? Since the latest Emacs release als= o >> suffers from the problem, I am afraid that the issue will be present in >> the coming Emacs 29 as well (I recall no related fixes in recent Emacs)= . > > I don't run Debian or Ubuntu anymore. However, I do recall that debian > does use a modified Emacs startup which is not part of the standard > Emacs distribution. They do this to enable the ability to have multiple > versions of Emacs installed at the same time. that would be /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/debian-startup.el Ciao; Gregor =2D- -... --- .-. . -.. ..--.. ...-.-
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Feb 2023 12:16:16 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 03 07:16:16 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36652 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1pNuzH-0001DK-Q8 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 Feb 2023 07:16:16 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39402) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1pNuzA-0001D1-51 for 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 Feb 2023 07:16:15 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1pNuz4-0005NC-5w; Fri, 03 Feb 2023 07:16:02 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=DrRfLXdcREZQfVcOO0Pka3FeRParDkAOtggvMFX3Sic=; b=EWRTvu82MZWd ippBUe3WG/5bLHuQjqmBqt5YCqMqWDVofgBR/WrfXtgBL2hYOY3fhr2lE3pFuu0ABSXc72j+/F4J6 +dD3hqe1CeIsbXBjLwgOYh32ualsEpZD0LltbxLWtZ1tT1lpvPbr/3DviIVALhDRf8uuXhj8Gluqo ihKFS1yP853tABGEL2Gr9soAAR2IWPs3W1cBO4fwQFfhYUtI4x/DeZiZVzqaWbRvjP/meXoNdl9pN Hy4fA+raUgWe1Q5skF2Ce6HzrFSbMpJINPpzk1Cs0tzNNjbKY15VvVOOvqSK4o1+sQtRn6ifNilD2 ockI2qCCyUi6DDVTwqtmCw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1pNuyq-0002jA-Oc; Fri, 03 Feb 2023 07:16:01 -0500 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2023 14:15:52 +0200 Message-Id: <83lelfuepz.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN>, rlb@HIDDEN In-Reply-To: <87lelfnhaa.fsf@localhost> (message from Ihor Radchenko on Fri, 03 Feb 2023 11:02:21 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54550C7727696BE317D0DD13A21D9@HIDDEN> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <jwvfsdi6or0.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@HIDDEN> <jwva63p715r.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@HIDDEN> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@HIDDEN> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@HIDDEN> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@HIDDEN> <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> <11e5c88d-09d1-75a5-5c7c-f8ace552c2d3@HIDDEN> <87lelfnhaa.fsf@localhost> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: manikulin@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> > Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, Eli > Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2023 11:02:21 +0000 > > Considering the popularity of Debian-based distros, may someone take a > closer look on what may be going on? Since the latest Emacs release also > suffers from the problem, I am afraid that the issue will be present in > the coming Emacs 29 as well (I recall no related fixes in recent Emacs). I don't know enough about package.el's peculiarities, sorry. And my plate is too full ATM. So I'm afraid someone else will have to investigate this. (I think Debian downstream maintainers are the natural candidates, so I've taken the liberty of CC'ing them.)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Feb 2023 11:04:49 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 03 06:04:49 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36575 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1pNts9-0007gy-2V for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 Feb 2023 06:04:49 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:37631) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1pNtpV-0007dC-2H for 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 Feb 2023 06:04:48 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ECBB62403BC for <59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 3 Feb 2023 12:01:48 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1675422112; bh=+LoHpPlnZuStpBn8PhQz9dDqfMRqmzvGIxqv6DBNEe8=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=JkzRHEEvx8wO3T42hSpZ9haKB0XbQGP5fHyNbjP3a1sfwbWoUQl0a8KXglfbNcMlq gQ/Po64h44bvzUsLIyNzIQQi/PyGbGHpIBoalPdU1ME5u4mWF7E2L9OLw4ODU778qQ WugF/oAH2HNeyWy1khgqVeRCqjQOmYa1tjDxRCe12itBUnYlHiQCIroZqcmVsiM1Ij Yhrx6vxm8/v9kfoV5ac8Uc303laXn5fwfQWIFq3/V7jBGKC5WaFjqepk+nxHAp/yi0 RKu9BDW2lJMTpOEvmz3cyavT9nK6GN40I5k/0ridIeO31npcbsvTQhoFtumX+1oD3D nFYLKriwujf/g== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4P7Xls52S5z6tmQ; Fri, 3 Feb 2023 12:01:45 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <11e5c88d-09d1-75a5-5c7c-f8ace552c2d3@HIDDEN> References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54550C7727696BE317D0DD13A21D9@HIDDEN> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <jwvfsdi6or0.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@HIDDEN> <jwva63p715r.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@HIDDEN> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@HIDDEN> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@HIDDEN> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@HIDDEN> <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> <11e5c88d-09d1-75a5-5c7c-f8ace552c2d3@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2023 11:02:21 +0000 Message-ID: <87lelfnhaa.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN> writes: > On 27/12/2022 16:47, Ihor Radchenko wrote: >> Can you then try to test using Emacs 28? >> The main question if whether this has been fixed in newer Emacs releases >> or it is also something to do with OS environment. > > I see quite the same issue with Emacs-28.2 in Debian testing. Compile > buffer displays a bit more warnings and usual `org-assert-version' > warnings and errors are present as well. It might have another level of > complexity due to .eln files. I am unsure what happens with calls to > undefined macros. I asked people around to test using Debian, and we do have a confirmation that Debian + Emacs 27 and Debian + Emacs 28 do trigger the error. I also installed Debian 11.6.0 on virtual machine, and I was also able to trigger the error, following the provided steps, using the Emacs 27 installed via apt-get. The problem seems to be real and appears to be some combination of Debian/Ubuntu + Emacs. Considering the popularity of Debian-based distros, may someone take a closer look on what may be going on? Since the latest Emacs release also suffers from the problem, I am afraid that the issue will be present in the coming Emacs 29 as well (I recall no related fixes in recent Emacs). -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>. Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>, or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
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[5.44.169.188]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id h13-20020a05651211cd00b004a2511b8224sm2146406lfr.103.2022.12.27.01.56.32 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 27 Dec 2022 01:56:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <11e5c88d-09d1-75a5-5c7c-f8ace552c2d3@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2022 16:56:31 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem Content-Language: en-US To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54559D5E6849C26AAF6CA044A21D9@HIDDEN> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB54550C7727696BE317D0DD13A21D9@HIDDEN> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <jwvfsdi6or0.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@HIDDEN> <jwva63p715r.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@HIDDEN> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@HIDDEN> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@HIDDEN> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@HIDDEN> <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> From: Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) On 27/12/2022 16:47, Ihor Radchenko wrote: > Can you then try to test using Emacs 28? > The main question if whether this has been fixed in newer Emacs releases > or it is also something to do with OS environment. I see quite the same issue with Emacs-28.2 in Debian testing. Compile buffer displays a bit more warnings and usual `org-assert-version' warnings and errors are present as well. It might have another level of complexity due to .eln files. I am unsure what happens with calls to undefined macros.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Dec 2022 09:47:34 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 27 04:47:34 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54735 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1pA6YY-0004yP-1Q for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 04:47:34 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:39945) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1pA6YW-0004y7-4e for 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 04:47:32 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60F202400CE for <59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 10:47:25 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1672134446; bh=3FgRTRPzZORjiE0JZ9CA+acltlfs77Wfprr5NZ83jHk=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=H1VjQwuPcbCIG2cZvO34Xjv7nGjPvkHTdl2JU0FXLj2U7mICEOtjdc1S0PnOPnKsK 4xzovQLOpsF8AxZvgEEYecJmmKnsKH4u/sSBqEmdcLzW7GhKAKP8fjAW1tognd5lIt gdX55fS+7sfxBFXy/nGhxo1JMtOom8/nX7mwgO1BfoB+M3kwmKfjsa/IU95LUc4DHa erCSnoWdolaFy/VATpXyNRlxsuVF5o+mkGPiMLeSWogQwZj2/gQiE0mNgKbFOXNbbr qLtfWphGR+GUJ0flRSE+N6wjpfs+hAgxzdn3hgac6xFMX8uJugiAO6jgjcyV+CRRGK MhGQjouZ58+yg== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Nh8vc0fZhz9rxD; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 10:47:24 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@HIDDEN> References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54559D5E6849C26AAF6CA044A21D9@HIDDEN> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB54550C7727696BE317D0DD13A21D9@HIDDEN> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <jwvfsdi6or0.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@HIDDEN> <jwva63p715r.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@HIDDEN> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@HIDDEN> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@HIDDEN> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2022 09:47:17 +0000 Message-ID: <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN> writes: > I found just single commit to lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el between > emacs-27.1 and emacs-27.2: > > 1fc9de4b81c 2020-10-30 19:20:24 -0700 Glenn Morris: Improve > reproducibility of generated -pkg.el files > > So I am still surprised that you can not reproduce the issue. Can you then try to test using Emacs 28? The main question if whether this has been fixed in newer Emacs releases or it is also something to do with OS environment. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>. Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>, or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
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[5.44.169.188]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id m15-20020a2eb6cf000000b0027fc54f8bf0sm81747ljo.35.2022.12.26.04.25.51 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 26 Dec 2022 04:25:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 19:25:49 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem Content-Language: en-US To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455E1FA2C2887B0200CA8B6A21D9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54559D5E6849C26AAF6CA044A21D9@HIDDEN> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB54550C7727696BE317D0DD13A21D9@HIDDEN> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <jwvfsdi6or0.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@HIDDEN> <jwva63p715r.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@HIDDEN> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@HIDDEN> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@HIDDEN> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> From: Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) On 26/12/2022 18:01, Ihor Radchenko wrote: > Ihor Radchenko writes: >> 1. ~/Git/with-emacs.sh/with-emacs.sh -e emacs-27 -O -- -l org > I was finally able to reproduce using emacs-26. > > Maybe your Emacs 27 is older than mine? I have GNU Emacs 27.2 Debian stable and Ubuntu LTS have Emacs-27.1 only, so I am testing 1:27.1+1-3ubuntu5 Following the with-emacs.sh script I have tried mkdir /tmp/emcs emacs --quick --eval '(setq user-emacs-directory "/tmp/emcs/")' --eval '(setq user-init-file "/tmp/emcs/init.el")' -l package --eval '(setq package-user-dir "/tmp/emcs/elpa/")' --eval '(package-initialize)' --eval '(package-refresh-contents)' -l org I had no problem to select Org-9.6 from the buffer generated by `list-packages'. Compilation errors and the error during next startup are the same as I reported before. I found just single commit to lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el between emacs-27.1 and emacs-27.2: 1fc9de4b81c 2020-10-30 19:20:24 -0700 Glenn Morris: Improve reproducibility of generated -pkg.el files So I am still surprised that you can not reproduce the issue.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Dec 2022 11:02:16 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 26 06:02:16 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50827 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1p9lFH-00028L-Rg for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2022 06:02:16 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:57611) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1p9lFF-000288-Qw for 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2022 06:02:14 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CBE0B2401AD for <59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 26 Dec 2022 12:02:05 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1672052527; bh=oR+pSsBJfC3aSh4mrKtMXVvyHQtoFP68BXjhc+wI5Gw=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=NDfVBwHuexi6X3U4WAb6a3csePd/dqsak7dCbN38dYD+Q+QAyJkUZP4qJEUgPa4LN msGDAz9ZPXr1n6bB7zJbqqI/G0dU9VByB1g65/BYttNGOJLzn/n3mwyRBfWTr9Z3pP eTC0u5JWixa+h/H6fq+h3xk0VxxSMcVoCNCfdiD9TLnnQbvzb0ieXpChYSYn6HzkFM f/Kev09TDOsQhzUig9GeYixLsxNMA2D6k46AeLjuMnw0S6cJJUTJO3FIZ5CVf7F2Tp QldUfstx0GTX50NDSjlxXZGEheXZuY9ZMrTvHEO/k5m39sCIAOL8AgAT0J6b6kEDkR Lk91+4KoBBZyQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NgZcD3S4Tz6tnl; Mon, 26 Dec 2022 12:02:04 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB5455E1FA2C2887B0200CA8B6A21D9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54559D5E6849C26AAF6CA044A21D9@HIDDEN> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB54550C7727696BE317D0DD13A21D9@HIDDEN> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <jwvfsdi6or0.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@HIDDEN> <jwva63p715r.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@HIDDEN> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@HIDDEN> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@HIDDEN> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 11:01:59 +0000 Message-ID: <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: > 1. ~/Git/with-emacs.sh/with-emacs.sh -e emacs-27 -O -- -l org I was finally able to reproduce using emacs-26. Maybe your Emacs 27 is older than mine? I have GNU Emacs 27.2 I also tried with Emacs 28. Not able to reproduce. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>. Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>, or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
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From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
To: Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem
In-Reply-To: <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@HIDDEN>
References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN>
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Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 08:44:55 +0000
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Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN> writes:
>> I tried to follow these steps, but unfortunately I am unable to
>> reproduce. Everything works fine using Emacs 27 on my side. Strange.
>
> I tried it once more in a minimal LXC container with Ubuntu-22.04 LTS=20
> jammy. This time I even removed the elpa-org-9.5.2 system package, so=20
> built-in version of org is really used. So, emacs-27
>
> - emacs -l org
> - M-x list-packages RET
> - / n org RET
> - move cursor to org, install it
On my side, it will give nothing useful: the package list is not updated
and I get:
Package org is built-in.
Status: Built-In.
Version: 9.4.4
Summary: Export Framework for Org Mode
Detailed steps I tried (with package refresh) using with-emacs.sh [1]:
1. ~/Git/with-emacs.sh/with-emacs.sh -e emacs-27 -O -- -l org
2. M-x package-list-packages RET
3. C-s outline-based RET
4. RET
5. C-x o C-s instal RET
6. RET y
7. The warnings buffer appears, but only contains
Warning (defvaralias): Overwriting value of =E2=80=98org-tab-first-hook=
=E2=80=99 by aliasing to =E2=80=98org-cycle-tab-first-hook=E2=80=99
[1] https://github.com/alphapapa/with-emacs.sh
--=20
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem
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To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN>
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From: Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN>
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Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN,
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On 18/12/2022 22:40, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> Could Someone™ investigate why that code
> doesn't do its job.
>
> The code in question is in `package--reload-previously-loaded` and
> my understanding is that it should cause `org-macs` to be reloaded
I do not see obvious flaws in `package--reload-previously-loaded' code.
My guess is that we get reports from users who have installed released
versions of emacs.
Notice that my complain concerning failure `byte-recompile-directory',
hidden from its caller, is still valid.
On 25/12/2022 16:48, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
> Max Nikulin writes:
>
>> I have tried the following in Emacs-27. For Emacs >= 29 add -L to Org <=
>> 9.5.
Stefan convinced me that I was too optimistic concerning Emacs-29.
>> - "emacs -l org" to simulate a regular user session with some opened files.
>> - Update to Org-9.6 from ELPA.
>> - Close emacs and start it again "emacs -l org"
>>
>> Result:
>> byte-code: Invalid function: org-assert-version
>
> I tried to follow these steps, but unfortunately I am unable to
> reproduce. Everything works fine using Emacs 27 on my side. Strange.
I tried it once more in a minimal LXC container with Ubuntu-22.04 LTS
jammy. This time I even removed the elpa-org-9.5.2 system package, so
built-in version of org is really used. So, emacs-27
- emacs -l org
- M-x list-packages RET
- / n org RET
- move cursor to org, install it
- i x y
- compilation buffers pops up with warning and errors.
Due to "-l org" some libraries like org, org-macs, ob are loaded. Files
that `require' already loaded libraries generate warnings
Compiling file /home/emcs/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.6/ob-R.el at Sun Dec 18
04:30:49 2022
In end of data:
ob-R.el:562:1:Warning: the function ‘org-assert-version’ is not known to be
defined.
because `org-assert-version' is defined in org-macs.el, but the old
version without it is already loaded. Call to `org-assert-version' is
just added to the .elc file.
E.g. org-keys.el produce the same warning. Another case is
Compiling file /home/emcs/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.6/ob-matlab.el at Sun Dec
18 04:30:50 2022
ob-matlab.el:43:1:Error: Symbol’s function definition is void:
org-assert-version
This file contains "(require 'ob-octave)". Attempt of load new version
of ob-octave fails because during execution of it contents causes an
error due to the `org-assert-version' call.
In particular, compilation of org.el fails because the new version has
new "(require 'org-fold)" and the latter also tries to call undefined
`org-assert-version'.
So at this point we have partially compiled broken install. Some files
are not compiled, others have call to `org-assert-version' instead of
its expansion.
Let's try to start emacs again and load org. Since org.el is not
compiled, "(org-assert-version)" inside it is unable to catch any
problem due to mixed-version compilation. Now `org-release' returns new
version. The failure happens during "(require 'org-keys)" that was
compiled with the warning.
Debugger entered--Lisp error: (invalid-function org-assert-version)
org-assert-version()
byte-code("\300\301!\210\302 \210\300\303!\210\300\304!\207" [require
org-macs org-assert-version cl-lib oc] 2)
require(org-keys)
So we have an obscure load time error. I would say that compile *error*
messages are obscure as well because it is unclear that errors happen in
`require'. E.g. when compiling org-matlab.el the reported line number is
for "(require 'ob-maxima)" while compiling of ob.maxima.el finished with
a warning, not an error and it is really confusing. "ob-octave:34:" in
addition to "ob-matlab:43:" during compiling of ob-matlab.el would be
more informative.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Dec 2022 09:49:10 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 25 04:49:10 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47578 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1p9Nd0-0006A2-8M for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Dec 2022 04:49:10 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:53713) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1p9Ncy-00069g-BU for 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Dec 2022 04:49:08 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE726240226 for <59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 25 Dec 2022 10:49:02 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1671961742; bh=mO9Ss+dDTGw0/AuxxsaELpvye0pxsTZYonw8Tzn0irs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=D8FGCJcgZ+osWzD3MEFYwru3Ja6R3+4gQj9/mPZ/l8tkHByfjOFUOuW5sDa4Z7V5U P6t1yCiRpSzWowvFb2JVBJ1lZlFer/VwQP5/pdlYl7ZRTFDD0LjVRLc5oukvshfTyU aA7Occ6Cp/2yQ5WWk8VWlhDen+1oPRAdqmp5fL58L9GnvHM4QwWMbBrY2grj87Q6Vh 9cg8JV0e1dvP8v1ZU7K/sTDT9QRNnMv6W1gGIFERizwhYJB2yRhzT0W4QGDmtGOoBD PMmBvgmYWTF0GSswgQHxr3DE72KrqUoYLEQFmj22n70vpCOT9TQyMjL1Jhs5dYdQxq 5aD0xbOqksjFA== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Nfx2M13yPz6tmJ; Sun, 25 Dec 2022 10:48:59 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@HIDDEN> References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB5455E1FA2C2887B0200CA8B6A21D9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54559D5E6849C26AAF6CA044A21D9@HIDDEN> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB54550C7727696BE317D0DD13A21D9@HIDDEN> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <jwvfsdi6or0.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@HIDDEN> <jwva63p715r.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@HIDDEN> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2022 09:48:55 +0000 Message-ID: <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN> writes: > I have tried the following in Emacs-27. For Emacs >= 29 add -L to Org <= > 9.5. > > - "emacs -l org" to simulate a regular user session with some opened files. > - Update to Org-9.6 from ELPA. > - Close emacs and start it again "emacs -l org" > > Result: > byte-code: Invalid function: org-assert-version I tried to follow these steps, but unfortunately I am unable to reproduce. Everything works fine using Emacs 27 on my side. Strange. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>. Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>, or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem
In-Reply-To: <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@HIDDEN> (Max Nikulin's
message of "Sun, 18 Dec 2022 22:24:24 +0700")
Message-ID: <jwvh6xsybez.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN>
<87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost>
<SJ0PR03MB5455E1FA2C2887B0200CA8B6A21D9@HIDDEN>
<SJ0PR03MB54559D5E6849C26AAF6CA044A21D9@HIDDEN>
<87k032nyok.fsf@localhost>
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Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2022 10:40:39 -0500
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Cc: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN,
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> - "emacs -l org" to simulate a regular user session with some opened file=
s.
> - Update to Org-9.6 from ELPA.
> - Close emacs and start it again "emacs -l org"
>
> Result:
> byte-code: Invalid function: org-assert-version
Hmm... there's code in `package.el` intended to avoid that problem, but
clearly it's failing here. Could Someone=E2=84=A2 investigate why that code
doesn't do its job.
The code in question is in `package--reload-previously-loaded` and
my understanding is that it should cause `org-macs` to be reloaded from
the Org-9.6 version of the code before the new code gets compiled, and
that new version does define the `org-assert-version` version, so those
macro calls should then be compiled correctly.
[ The approach used in `package--reload-previously-loaded` has its
weaknesses, but AFAIK it *should* be able to avoid the above error. ]
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
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[5.44.169.188]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id h18-20020a19ca52000000b004b55075f813sm845765lfj.227.2022.12.18.07.24.25 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 18 Dec 2022 07:24:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2022 22:24:24 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem Content-Language: en-US To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB5455E1FA2C2887B0200CA8B6A21D9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54559D5E6849C26AAF6CA044A21D9@HIDDEN> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB54550C7727696BE317D0DD13A21D9@HIDDEN> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <jwvfsdi6or0.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@HIDDEN> <jwva63p715r.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@HIDDEN> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> From: Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 16/12/2022 21:47, Ihor Radchenko wrote: >> Can it happen that already loaded version affects compilation of a new >> version by package-install. > > Yes. It is what appears to be happening: > > https://irreal.org/blog/?p=10996 > https://irreal.org/blog/?p=10999 I would not call it steps to reproduce. From my point of view, there is a number of issues with updating of packages from emacs session. 1. If compilation of a package failed then it is not withdrawn from the load path. 2. There is no reliable way to determine if package compilation failed. (byte-recompile-directory DIR 0 t) returns human readable string, not signalling an error or returning a value convenient to check in the code. It is the cause of the previous issue. 3. Emacs package system is not ready for complex multifile packages containing macro definitions. It does not push user to update packages just after emacs restart in a clean state. As a result, files may be compiled with old or missed macro definitions. 4. Because of the item 2 a package has no chance to implement reliable internal sanity check that prevents updating to a broken state. I have tried the following in Emacs-27. For Emacs >= 29 add -L to Org <= 9.5. - "emacs -l org" to simulate a regular user session with some opened files. - Update to Org-9.6 from ELPA. - Close emacs and start it again "emacs -l org" Result: byte-code: Invalid function: org-assert-version Notice attempt to load Org-9.6 despite warnings and even error during update: > Compiling file /home/emcs/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.6/ob-C.el at Sun Dec 18 04:30:49 2022 > Entering directory ‘/home/emcs/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.6/’ > > In end of data: > ob-C.el:509:1:Warning: the function ‘org-assert-version’ is not known to be > defined. ... > Compiling file /home/emcs/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.6/ob-matlab.el at Sun Dec 18 04:30:50 2022 > ob-matlab.el:43:1:Error: Symbol’s function definition is void: org-assert-version So emacs can not handle update of a package with changed macro definitions when they reside in another package file.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Dec 2022 14:48:00 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 16 09:48:00 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49785 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1p6C0G-0006US-Ei for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2022 09:48:00 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:41143) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1p6C0B-0006TZ-EX for 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2022 09:47:58 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 879E724002C for <59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 16 Dec 2022 15:47:48 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1671202069; bh=Jd3XG4K6OXOw/75rLVJONb637HI/HOXWYQjD+lgxh7s=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=gk3lLfmHmRA8iRZGPQuj9km8hgIq7aAxSdLJY1MitpTJbXoRbJeJsxdkxhMs4xsV6 nXhDVqOiEtHsYrLvwgfpJcXPba/wR7y9mOuRcQkpeaEO3u7OjhZa7nQIY4gy1qjlCj DF29Jxir5GZHMqkZHqSs2MDjv4MYcID1scUnJZLy+RlJCyhU7UqF3lyJiPt5vVkrzr wht2HMOtLWeALRZKNeKTjuF8DWBX8Fq9yLh/r8CRg6GEmz9JlSAGnSN86sbc1f64m/ yFWLePYjYbKBohT7UrVe2VBQPVWGjbGYj7tO6Al/2Uk7HzSNp7CDFhdkWklYpFFOrt LoeHM2+3JTYgQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NYX5G57nmz6tnh; Fri, 16 Dec 2022 15:47:46 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@HIDDEN> References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB5455E1FA2C2887B0200CA8B6A21D9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54559D5E6849C26AAF6CA044A21D9@HIDDEN> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB54550C7727696BE317D0DD13A21D9@HIDDEN> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <jwvfsdi6or0.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@HIDDEN> <jwva63p715r.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2022 14:47:42 +0000 Message-ID: <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN> writes: > I have impression that there is no recipe how to reproduce this bug yet, > just reports that people have faced it. So aspects of autoload may be > considered as a part of brainstorm. > > Other ideas when built-in Org version may be loaded too early: > - restoring previous session. > - user configured Org agenda as startup buffer. > > Can it happen that already loaded version affects compilation of a new > version by package-install. Yes. It is what appears to be happening: https://irreal.org/blog/?p=10996 https://irreal.org/blog/?p=10999 -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>. Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>, or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
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[5.44.169.188]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id s10-20020a056512214a00b004b52f4ea0d3sm207082lfr.192.2022.12.16.04.36.19 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 16 Dec 2022 04:36:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2022 19:36:18 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem Content-Language: en-US To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB5455E1FA2C2887B0200CA8B6A21D9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54559D5E6849C26AAF6CA044A21D9@HIDDEN> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB54550C7727696BE317D0DD13A21D9@HIDDEN> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <jwvfsdi6or0.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@HIDDEN> <jwva63p715r.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> From: Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwva63p715r.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 15/12/2022 11:17, Stefan Monnier wrote: > Max Nikulin [2022-12-14 23:02:53] wrote: >> Completion failure for "org-to" happened because result of >> `register-definition-prefixes' calls is not considered as options. I am >> aware that it may give false positives, but I still believe they should >> be added. > > I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're saying. My bad. "org-go" is completed to "org--goto" while "org-goto-" is not offered. The latter might be a variant because "org-goto" is registered as an autoload prefix. Ihor kindly created https://debbugs.gnu.org/60085 "`help-enable-autoload' is not fully obeyed", so it is better to discuss it there. >> Though I believe that org mixed version issue happens due to transitional >> dependency of some third party package on org or something like (require >> 'org-protocol) that can not be loaded on demand. > > Hmm... indeed the "Subject:" talks about mixed versions, yet I was > discussing something not directly related. Looks like I got off-topic > somewhere along the way without noticing, sorry. I have impression that there is no recipe how to reproduce this bug yet, just reports that people have faced it. So aspects of autoload may be considered as a part of brainstorm. Other ideas when built-in Org version may be loaded too early: - restoring previous session. - user configured Org agenda as startup buffer. Can it happen that already loaded version affects compilation of a new version by package-install.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Dec 2022 04:56:39 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 14 23:56:39 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42355 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1p5gIR-0005te-05 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 23:56:39 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:56113) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1p5gIN-0005tW-O7 for 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 23:56:37 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35537240027 for <59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 15 Dec 2022 05:56:30 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1671080190; bh=nmck62qLXnuZnDkkrWLP7h0AMbOP43DynSDnh+m03lA=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=NRmYRU22uqvhty3lE2ShptGZu2vaEWiUKVV6IJTJMhINp/cKud0hMQe9zn0VlgTAV vjT2jcQ2EEiXrXll5x4PM9N30L6yleIDdhp8TUl+KI46KP0ZhVFH5+EW9I02dcwF0i b+BR5mygkmDdtb/+ynxnEnl0s7xf1aGfMo+62s4UGw8/HD6r1NCaeI942i3gRzBxVu lPG+AvN14wla1uv2VUsISeU2AHlehAuu+pw2AMAMK568Tk9dUaVAE0bOQzlR/pHafM vNB/7sRlCnQ2MEd9w5ovhwvJaxgFPmypGjrLoh+9Xaakx2T08osv45fAtCCd7YgGPk ifAMPN1VT5L0g== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NXg1T1wdpz9rxB; Thu, 15 Dec 2022 05:56:28 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <jwva63p715r.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB5455E1FA2C2887B0200CA8B6A21D9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54559D5E6849C26AAF6CA044A21D9@HIDDEN> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB54550C7727696BE317D0DD13A21D9@HIDDEN> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <jwvfsdi6or0.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@HIDDEN> <jwva63p715r.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2022 04:56:16 +0000 Message-ID: <87fsdhw9hr.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN>, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes: >> Though I believe that org mixed version issue happens due to transitional >> dependency of some third party package on org or something like (require >> 'org-protocol) that can not be loaded on demand. > > Hmm... indeed the "Subject:" talks about mixed versions, yet I was > discussing something not directly related. Looks like I got off-topic > somewhere along the way without noticing, sorry. And the off-topic is what has been CCed to Org mailing list :) -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>. Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>, or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem
In-Reply-To: <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@HIDDEN> (Max Nikulin's
message of "Wed, 14 Dec 2022 23:02:53 +0700")
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Max Nikulin [2022-12-14 23:02:53] wrote:
> On 14/12/2022 21:35, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>> Like I said in another message that I sent just before receiving yours
>>> my conclusion came from the fact that hitting 'C-h v' with the cursor
>>> on 'org-goto-interface' provided nothing. It was the first time this
>>> ever happened to me. I did try to explicitly enter the variable's
>>> name by entering 'org-goto<TAB>', which (like 'org-go<TAB>') is not
>>> enough: it is completed to 'org--goto'.
>> AFAICT this is a missing feature: we obey `help-enable-autoload` in
>> `describe-function` but we fail to do the same autoloading dance in
>> `describe-variable`.
>
> I think, the difference is interactive vs. non-interactive calls rather than
> `describe-function' vs. `describe-variable'. What misses this feature is
> `customize-variable'.
>
> Completion failure for "org-to" happened because result of
> `register-definition-prefixes' calls is not considered as options. I am
> aware that it may give false positives, but I still believe they should
> be added.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're saying.
> Though I believe that org mixed version issue happens due to transitional
> dependency of some third party package on org or something like (require
> 'org-protocol) that can not be loaded on demand.
Hmm... indeed the "Subject:" talks about mixed versions, yet I was
discussing something not directly related. Looks like I got off-topic
somewhere along the way without noticing, sorry.
Stefan
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From: "Cook, Malcolm" <MEC@HIDDEN>
To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: RE: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem
Thread-Topic: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem
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Cc: David Masterson <dsmasterson@HIDDEN>,
"emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN" <emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN>,
"michel@HIDDEN" <michel@HIDDEN>,
"59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
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>On a related note, is it normal that package like org-mouse.el gets
>loaded upon calling C-h f org-mouse- <TAB> completion prompt?
>org-mouse.el does not contain a single autoload cookie.
There need not be which is apparently by design:
The autoload happens as a consequence of emacs' documented feature to [Auto=
load by Prefix](https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/A=
utoload-by-Prefix.html)=20
Given that:
(equal (gethash "org-mouse-" definition-prefixes) '("org-mouse"))
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
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[5.44.169.188]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id l11-20020a19494b000000b004b551505c29sm852044lfj.218.2022.12.14.08.02.54 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 14 Dec 2022 08:02:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 23:02:53 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem Content-Language: en-US To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB5455E1FA2C2887B0200CA8B6A21D9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54559D5E6849C26AAF6CA044A21D9@HIDDEN> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB54550C7727696BE317D0DD13A21D9@HIDDEN> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@HIDDEN> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <jwvfsdi6or0.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> From: Max Nikulin <manikulin@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwvfsdi6or0.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 14/12/2022 21:35, Stefan Monnier wrote: > >> Like I said in another message that I sent just before receiving yours >> my conclusion came from the fact that hitting 'C-h v' with the cursor >> on 'org-goto-interface' provided nothing. It was the first time this >> ever happened to me. I did try to explicitly enter the variable's >> name by entering 'org-goto<TAB>', which (like 'org-go<TAB>') is not >> enough: it is completed to 'org--goto'. > > AFAICT this is a missing feature: we obey `help-enable-autoload` in > `describe-function` but we fail to do the same autoloading dance in > `describe-variable`. I think, the difference is interactive vs. non-interactive calls rather than `describe-function' vs. `describe-variable'. What misses this feature is `customize-variable'. Completion failure for "org-to" happened because result of `register-definition-prefixes' calls is not considered as options. I am aware that it may give false positives, but I still believe they should be added. Though I believe that org mixed version issue happens due to transitional dependency of some third party package on org or something like (require 'org-protocol) that can not be loaded on demand.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem
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> similar issues with several important Org components (ol-* and ob-*). In
> particular, ob-*.el packages affect Org simply by defining function
> symbols with specific name patters (by ob-core.el design).
> Achieving no side effects is difficult in practice.
That's true. It can be a balancing act.
> Also, note that side effects are not uncommon in Elisp packages.
> Including, built-ins, like rect.el.
> dired+ comes to mind among popular third-party packages.
Most of them are plain bugs, tho (typically fixed by introducing an
autoloaded minor-mode, so the package is activated by enabling the
minor mode rather than by `require`ing the package).
> Like I said in another message that I sent just before receiving yours
> my conclusion came from the fact that hitting 'C-h v' with the cursor
> on 'org-goto-interface' provided nothing. It was the first time this
> ever happened to me. I did try to explicitly enter the variable's
> name by entering 'org-goto<TAB>', which (like 'org-go<TAB>') is not
> enough: it is completed to 'org--goto'.
AFAICT this is a missing feature: we obey `help-enable-autoload` in
`describe-function` but we fail to do the same autoloading dance in
`describe-variable`.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem
In-Reply-To: <83359innsp.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 14 Dec
2022 14:59:50 +0200")
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Cc: dsmasterson@HIDDEN, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>,
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>> On a related note, is it normal that package like org-mouse.el gets
>> loaded upon calling C-h f org-mouse- <TAB> completion prompt?
Yes. See `help-enable-completion-autoload`.
>> I am asking because org-mouse.el advises some functions and its loading
>> may cause unexpected consequences. See
>> https://orgmode.org/list/87r0x6sju1.fsf@HIDDEN
> I think org-mouse.el should be fixed not to cause such effects just by
> loading it. It should do that only when it is actually used.
Exactly. Merely loading a file should not affect Emacs's behavior in
any significant way.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
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From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem
In-Reply-To: <83359innsp.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, michel@HIDDEN
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
>> I am asking because org-mouse.el advises some functions and its loading
>> may cause unexpected consequences. See
>> https://orgmode.org/list/87r0x6sju1.fsf@HIDDEN
>
> I think org-mouse.el should be fixed not to cause such effects just by
> loading it. It should do that only when it is actually used.
Yes, we plan to do exactly this https://orgmode.org/list/87zgbqqukg.fsf@localhost
However, it will be a breaking backward-incompatible change. And we have
similar issues with several important Org components (ol-* and ob-*). In
particular, ob-*.el packages affect Org simply by defining function
symbols with specific name patters (by ob-core.el design).
Achieving no side effects is difficult in practice.
Also, note that side effects are not uncommon in Elisp packages.
Including, built-ins, like rect.el.
dired+ comes to mind among popular third-party packages.
>> At the same time, we have users complaining about some defcustoms not
>> being available without loading.
>> https://orgmode.org/list/25496.19258.682537.503614@HIDDEN
>
> That's too vague: it talks about "whether a variable exists", which is
> ambiguous. That a variable is not boundp until its definition is
> loaded is perfectly expected, and I don't think defcustom changes that
> in any way (unless you autoload the defcustom, which is considered not
> the best style around here).
>
> So I guess some clarification is in order: what exactly was the
> problem with that variable being "nonexistent"?
Agree. See the quote below:
https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/25497.41832.663858.836948@HIDDEN/
Like I said in another message that I sent just before receiving yours
my conclusion came from the fact that hitting 'C-h v' with the cursor
on 'org-goto-interface' provided nothing. It was the first time this
ever happened to me. I did try to explicitly enter the variable's
name by entering 'org-goto<TAB>', which (like 'org-go<TAB>') is not
enough: it is completed to 'org--goto'.
--
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2022 13:00:03 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 14 08:00:03 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39101 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1p5RMg-0000AP-Ri for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 08:00:03 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37150) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1p5RMe-00009O-4P for 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 08:00:01 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1p5RMY-0000Ya-Dy; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 07:59:54 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=eaedBL0dDVZaLly6EwNHAUf0uD6bdk4MbUi2fyHjTQs=; b=OllkgFQVEdWX 7w2n/Aa3cO62XpeXyADPN/1Gjbk5uYJLTsiIDy7RadmfCjoTAWcGyuMlN2Z7L49DqDf7SURAQSZY/ mMJr8wwJFNwuPIw2QDoufqj7WEKA9/G+ZFY24wxzz0QXJBPcEhnoV3GvxuAjOwBsK+jOOQ+6592s0 OH2yDuIyHBujsxHd+6KvpA048ESetUQLy2VpFxX+8f/dlYRULQcXC5ulEq+fDj083vWV6ERmHQiml 5ZfKKijkUlMMbz27IddaQUQh/ypwi2g/nq5knnF+IeR6tw2t1hqk/yyhtGYLnqH+YyW75YBRfuXR9 T0MpfJPPpn2unpSzM+zymA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1p5RMX-0007Ql-UK; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 07:59:54 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 14:59:50 +0200 Message-Id: <83359innsp.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> (message from Ihor Radchenko on Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:51:01 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB5455E1FA2C2887B0200CA8B6A21D9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54559D5E6849C26AAF6CA044A21D9@HIDDEN> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB54550C7727696BE317D0DD13A21D9@HIDDEN> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: dsmasterson@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, michel@HIDDEN, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> > Cc: David Masterson <dsmasterson@HIDDEN>, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, > michel@HIDDEN, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:51:01 +0000 > > On a related note, is it normal that package like org-mouse.el gets > loaded upon calling C-h f org-mouse- <TAB> completion prompt? > org-mouse.el does not contain a single autoload cookie. I think it's expected, because the doc strings need to be loaded. Stefan, am I right? > I am asking because org-mouse.el advises some functions and its loading > may cause unexpected consequences. See > https://orgmode.org/list/87r0x6sju1.fsf@HIDDEN I think org-mouse.el should be fixed not to cause such effects just by loading it. It should do that only when it is actually used. > At the same time, we have users complaining about some defcustoms not > being available without loading. > https://orgmode.org/list/25496.19258.682537.503614@HIDDEN That's too vague: it talks about "whether a variable exists", which is ambiguous. That a variable is not boundp until its definition is loaded is perfectly expected, and I don't think defcustom changes that in any way (unless you autoload the defcustom, which is considered not the best style around here). So I guess some clarification is in order: what exactly was the problem with that variable being "nonexistent"?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2022 09:51:18 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 14 04:51:18 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37965 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1p5OQ1-0007Pc-U6 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 04:51:18 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:47691) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1p5OPz-0007PV-Et for 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 04:51:16 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C704240104 for <59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 10:51:07 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1671011469; bh=eEar9lDI0ZzeC6utT+dwqfh4waCDbrC7DEv3rFOuqb8=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=BKTHCGasZDIeeqlguqGpPaalTosuX6SuHWalZ2JEAuUMYulb9ZZq/wBQMsedyRvxA C4/tk/voikqFEaPKUY2aCO9w1brQXaKgmwmaZzU2e8Xp548KI7bGZzZ0UWQWDLbYy5 UFgb/d3ehTmMuHHg9fQ19oSRmNmLBlTES0VomiFcEVXtRyhegdHRhm8GGMlR8QWizR KnWTqU1WEvhwJcgj6B+xVeK/kWS5gfVBusDQ39d5a7P0vgo3bKtoVAmCIHhrHCG85F 85fe0PdoxXIHkLBV2eSeftlc6su2BgJm+yTOcfzqrGIrBiwC0oYWRDzRzSgks/7Hpd EnavROMbPdcyg== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NX9bs6c41z6tnl; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 10:51:03 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB5455E1FA2C2887B0200CA8B6A21D9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54559D5E6849C26AAF6CA044A21D9@HIDDEN> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB54550C7727696BE317D0DD13A21D9@HIDDEN> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:51:01 +0000 Message-ID: <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: David Masterson <dsmasterson@HIDDEN>, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, michel@HIDDEN, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> So, 'describe-variable' on org-version causes Org to be loaded?!? > > Why is it so surprising? Is this the first time you see that a Help > command loads something to do its job? On a related note, is it normal that package like org-mouse.el gets loaded upon calling C-h f org-mouse- <TAB> completion prompt? org-mouse.el does not contain a single autoload cookie. I am asking because org-mouse.el advises some functions and its loading may cause unexpected consequences. See https://orgmode.org/list/87r0x6sju1.fsf@HIDDEN At the same time, we have users complaining about some defcustoms not being available without loading. https://orgmode.org/list/25496.19258.682537.503614@HIDDEN I feel confused about the situation. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>. Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>, or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Dec 2022 14:02:13 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 10 09:02:13 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42924 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1p40Qe-0007Pd-R7 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Dec 2022 09:02:13 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:42063) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1p40Qa-0007PX-I9 for 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Dec 2022 09:02:11 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01888240028 for <59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 10 Dec 2022 15:02:02 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1670680923; bh=iE/loLF1nT7uop82WEck0qakh6QAgKhg5wgIM+X47F4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=cRB2j6bH6W9BH1PK2Thp0mqcYm4l5y2IfklxTx2vQZgq+kJRTpzh1VvhrbqqROxMQ AsWrU0QkjSzuf1yabt8ipiXhNs2QmJb5DerfHHA0dSK8RPvYDsrgA9c4a4mDGVmIjL CwbXaDBrZnskapl1X9RCPdiLkO1v7E2gZSflzjpcjwV+3SXuAzA/Sxkl+GGU7q3KHc bQx5RYVyRl3RhuYutaNlz0KGXpx5F1NYDrmvVlBRvNmCjarwLvZ9MlzqBHWJCfUDnV 9ZsH3NctxlgbfC649TGusINdMm15P3ZMEoyXLZ7uo3BJT8Icf8++XkPw5InbhMCQWv buaChdlXdtdhQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NTqMF6dqnz9rxS; Sat, 10 Dec 2022 15:01:59 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB5455E1FA2C2887B0200CA8B6A21D9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54559D5E6849C26AAF6CA044A21D9@HIDDEN> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB54550C7727696BE317D0DD13A21D9@HIDDEN> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2022 14:01:58 +0000 Message-ID: <878rjfs6g9.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: David Masterson <dsmasterson@HIDDEN>, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, michel@HIDDEN, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> In my testing, I found a strange case where, in *scratch*, I get: >> >> (message "%s" org-version) >> ;; Error undefined >> ;; Do 'C-h v org-version' >> (message "%s" org-version) >> 9.3 >> >> So, 'describe-variable' on org-version causes Org to be loaded?!? > > Why is it so surprising? Is this the first time you see that a Help > command loads something to do its job? Please note that David's recipe is _not_ what I described in the bug report. I am referring to the problem people run into when using M-x package-install. AFAIU, package-install must not depend on the older version of a package being loaded/not loaded. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>. Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>, or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Dec 2022 20:27:32 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 09 15:27:32 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38292 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1p3jy0-0002tt-6m for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 15:27:32 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56092) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1p3jxy-0002tn-NC for 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 15:27:31 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1p3jxr-00056i-7a; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 15:27:24 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=FNVLU/JksVkgaVXKVQMPVCqFsVmNIuSuTQsDToeRViQ=; b=CCSVnLl/pTuo FwiowaQjCX4zcgOrSWfkvsmRCkk7Ko58h7e1ViwZoARZ+CitQ2aCg9mEGUqCntS5FIJ6xDVv/o5NZ Jk42GznjAWuzyHi9Z05m+iwUL2Aun48ayQCs3SzgcFPAnA3FyAZKm8V5qpkMloELp28z6nvWS3REZ tfQltDaIPam+AgChYmm9/rDCDVhbwF95EP4C2Hm4bJ0n0z55CiqNWvbrm5DA1QG540mZ859379pfI ixZkHdTTwf7P0y9tDmY8Ev/zqBRDyFhSbuNwAfMfDEAXOYNtrA3RfNkckN7WdZ3kvT3S3yrfkYPhj Dzp6/573vyBKpk5VbYGlEw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1p3jxo-0007md-2e; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 15:27:21 -0500 Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2022 22:27:13 +0200 Message-Id: <83359oz5jy.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: David Masterson <dsmasterson@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR03MB545522F5053017127964564BA21C9@HIDDEN> (message from David Masterson on Fri, 09 Dec 2022 11:51:29 -0800) Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB5455E1FA2C2887B0200CA8B6A21D9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54559D5E6849C26AAF6CA044A21D9@HIDDEN> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB54550C7727696BE317D0DD13A21D9@HIDDEN> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54551B455DAEB936213DE09CA21C9@HIDDEN> <DS7PR20MB46714DA5A213137BCEF5A2D4BE1C9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB545522F5053017127964564BA21C9@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: MEC@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, michel@HIDDEN, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: David Masterson <dsmasterson@HIDDEN> > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, "michel@HIDDEN" <michel@HIDDEN>, > "emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN" <emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN>, "59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" > <59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2022 11:51:29 -0800 > > > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Autoload-by-Prefix.html > > > > What you observed will NOT happen if you first run: > > > > (clrhash definition-prefixes) > > Ah! Thank you. In many ways, I still think of Emacs from what I learned > about it in the early 80s (yes, pre-Elisp). I didn't expect this and, > so, didn't investigate the possibility that it's planned (the Info > documentation has gotten huge). Apologies to Eli. No apologies needed, we all learn something new about Emacs every day.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
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Fri, 9 Dec 2022 19:51:33 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR03MB5455.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e016:84f7:daad:916e]) by SJ0PR03MB5455.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e016:84f7:daad:916e%3]) with mapi id 15.20.5880.018; Fri, 9 Dec 2022 19:51:33 +0000 From: David Masterson <dsmasterson@HIDDEN> To: "Cook, Malcolm" <MEC@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB5455E1FA2C2887B0200CA8B6A21D9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54559D5E6849C26AAF6CA044A21D9@HIDDEN> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB54550C7727696BE317D0DD13A21D9@HIDDEN> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54551B455DAEB936213DE09CA21C9@HIDDEN> <DS7PR20MB46714DA5A213137BCEF5A2D4BE1C9@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2022 11:51:29 -0800 In-Reply-To: <DS7PR20MB46714DA5A213137BCEF5A2D4BE1C9@HIDDEN> (Malcolm Cook's message of "Fri, 9 Dec 2022 19:40:17 +0000") Message-ID: <SJ0PR03MB545522F5053017127964564BA21C9@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) Content-Type: text/plain X-TMN: [BkItmtRSOj3h7nZT3hlSvMYHnCyj09RjD8yQ+JGuTN/mtwSh7BNRDxHoOgNDKtYQ] X-ClientProxiedBy: BYAPR11CA0071.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:80::48) To SJ0PR03MB5455.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:27b::11) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87mt7wz77i.fsf@penguin> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 2 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: SJ0PR03MB5455:EE_|MN2PR03MB5344:EE_ X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: bbe1a85c-ff5e-4875-d91b-08dada1ec5d3 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; 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Content preview: "Cook, Malcolm" writes: >> Eli Zaretskii writes: >> >> >> Cc: emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> >> From: David Masterson >> >> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 13:56:03 -0800 >> >> >> >> In my testing, I found a stra [...] Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.0 FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD 'From' gmail.com does not match 'Received' headers 0.2 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record 0.2 FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT Envelope-from freemail username ends in digit (outlook_98c99531806b1c22[at]outlook.com) 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (dsmasterson[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [40.92.21.24 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, "emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN" <emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN>, "michel@HIDDEN" <michel@HIDDEN>, "59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) "Cook, Malcolm" <MEC@HIDDEN> writes: >> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> >> >> Cc: emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> >> From: David Masterson <dsmasterson@HIDDEN> >> >> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 13:56:03 -0800 >> >> >> >> In my testing, I found a strange case where, in *scratch*, I get: >> >> >> >> (message "%s" org-version) >> >> ;; Error undefined >> >> ;; Do 'C-h v org-version' >> >> (message "%s" org-version) >> >> 9.3 >> >> >> >> So, 'describe-variable' on org-version causes Org to be loaded?!? >> > >> > Why is it so surprising? Is this the first time you see that a Help >> > command loads something to do its job? >> >> Yes, it is surprising. How did Emacs know to load Org to find org-version? > > This is provided for via emacs' autoload by prefix mechanism. > > See: > > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Autoload-by-Prefix.html > > What you observed will NOT happen if you first run: > > (clrhash definition-prefixes) Ah! Thank you. In many ways, I still think of Emacs from what I learned about it in the early 80s (yes, pre-Elisp). I didn't expect this and, so, didn't investigate the possibility that it's planned (the Info documentation has gotten huge). Apologies to Eli. -- David Masterson
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
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charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: "emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN" <emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN>, "59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Adding this to bug #59882 >=20 > "Michel Schinz" <michel@HIDDEN> writes: >=20 > > Just for the record, I also ran into problems when installing Org 9.6 > > using Emacs' package system on top of an older version that came with > > Emacs. If I tried to install it as usual (M-x list-packages, then > > install the package from there), I had errors during compilation > > related to `org-assert-version`, and then if I restarted Emacs, I > > would get a fatal error in an unrelated package. > > > > I managed to solve that problem by: > > 1. uninstalling Org 9.6 and exiting Emacs, 2. starting Emacs with -q, > > 3. installing Org 9.6 from there (using M-x list-packages as usual), > > 4. restarting Emacs. >=20 > Interesting! I tried this (essentially) and it worked for my case. In m= y case, I > had a built-in Org-9.3 and I was trying to use list-packages to install O= rg-9.6. I > checked that using -q still added Org-9.3 to the load-path, but, since Or= g > wasn't loaded, the install via list-packages worked. >=20 > The question is what's the proper way of doing this without '-q'? >=20 > > I'm not sure this is related to your problem, or whether that helps > > (but I hope it does)... >=20 > I think it does. >=20 > Side note: >=20 > In my testing, I found a strange case where, in *scratch*, I get: >=20 > (message "%s" org-version) > ;; Error undefined > ;; Do 'C-h v org-version' > (message "%s" org-version) > 9.3 >=20 > So, 'describe-variable' on org-version causes Org to be loaded?!? [Cook,= Malcolm]=20 Yes. See https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Autoloa= d-by-Prefix.html But it will NOT be autoloaded if you first: (clrhash definition-prefixes) HTH & YMMV, Malcolm > Why do I > have a feeling this is related to this bug? Yeah, I'm not sure what you consider the bug to be now. Remind me? >=20 > -- > David Masterson
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
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charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: "emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN" <emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN>, "michel@HIDDEN" <michel@HIDDEN>, "59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >=20 > >> Cc: emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > >> From: David Masterson <dsmasterson@HIDDEN> > >> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 13:56:03 -0800 > >> > >> In my testing, I found a strange case where, in *scratch*, I get: > >> > >> (message "%s" org-version) > >> ;; Error undefined > >> ;; Do 'C-h v org-version' > >> (message "%s" org-version) > >> 9.3 > >> > >> So, 'describe-variable' on org-version causes Org to be loaded?!? > > > > Why is it so surprising? Is this the first time you see that a Help > > command loads something to do its job? >=20 > Yes, it is surprising. How did Emacs know to load Org to find org-versio= n?=20 This is provided for via emacs' autoload by prefix mechanism. See: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Autoload-by-Prefi= x.html What you observed will NOT happen if you first run: =09(clrhash definition-prefixes) > didn't request it to by this action. Or did it do a package-activate-all= (or > similar) to ensure that everything was loaded? > That would be overkill. Sometimes the best answer is 'nil'. >=20 > -- > David Masterson
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Dec 2022 11:58:01 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 09 06:58:01 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35589 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1p3c0v-0006qg-D1 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 06:58:01 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47630) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1p3c0t-0006qa-P9 for 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 06:58:00 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1p3c0m-0001rX-OW; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 06:57:53 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=7xRR4AdD4XEKfi30XfxSQ2VDgY4pcJGnoYttGEYh1g8=; b=nX8fUbreSU1t 72llQPNMoWyb1WytPR0HPFLCW1b/d+FKagAzUUF+22kCjzj/czukt6SbqUGetBHt+HK1bNQgqoT0P Q1iSprHOo3E+GR7VUt5HRAC+AM3FQsJfzMlTT0sOaitrS6Q0PHWtVXReNPJAj9PoS+keCripAzb8G 3QlBFo9paGHQEREE5oJ/re8pwZF85VuBc0uzTTYFlkary5eNUmN3KDU6p/fbLNmGe0LMS7B2IogJM 84Z2sYNe/9LBiG8C3YOUzlsU9ADNQUEIYYDdBtNhrq51B+Ku9NJetXFLyEoRXX3A/xDSN6DFH0B+R ObxK78oBJjUEduA7KSAr2Q==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1p3c0h-0004Q4-Ct; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 06:57:48 -0500 Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2022 13:57:40 +0200 Message-Id: <83359o23ij.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: David Masterson <dsmasterson@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR03MB54551B455DAEB936213DE09CA21C9@HIDDEN> (message from David Masterson on Thu, 08 Dec 2022 23:43:05 -0800) Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB5455E1FA2C2887B0200CA8B6A21D9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54559D5E6849C26AAF6CA044A21D9@HIDDEN> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB54550C7727696BE317D0DD13A21D9@HIDDEN> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54551B455DAEB936213DE09CA21C9@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, michel@HIDDEN, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: David Masterson <dsmasterson@HIDDEN> > Cc: michel@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 23:43:05 -0800 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > >> So, 'describe-variable' on org-version causes Org to be loaded?!? > > > > Why is it so surprising? Is this the first time you see that a Help > > command loads something to do its job? > > Yes, it is surprising. How did Emacs know to load Org to find > org-version? I didn't request it to by this action. Or did it do a > package-activate-all (or similar) to ensure that everything was loaded? > That would be overkill. Sometimes the best answer is 'nil'. I don't think Emacs does package-activate-all. But Help commands frequently load packages to provide the documentation of the symbols you ask about. If this is surprising, then I suggest to get used to it.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
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Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Cc: emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> From: David Masterson >> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 13:56:03 -0800 >> >> In my testing, I found a strange case where, in *scratch*, I get: >> >> (m [...] Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.0 FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD 'From' gmail.com does not match 'Received' headers 0.2 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record 0.2 FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT Envelope-from freemail username ends in digit (outlook_98c99531806b1c22[at]outlook.com) 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (dsmasterson[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [40.92.15.69 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, michel@HIDDEN, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> Cc: emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> From: David Masterson <dsmasterson@HIDDEN> >> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 13:56:03 -0800 >> >> In my testing, I found a strange case where, in *scratch*, I get: >> >> (message "%s" org-version) >> ;; Error undefined >> ;; Do 'C-h v org-version' >> (message "%s" org-version) >> 9.3 >> >> So, 'describe-variable' on org-version causes Org to be loaded?!? > > Why is it so surprising? Is this the first time you see that a Help > command loads something to do its job? Yes, it is surprising. How did Emacs know to load Org to find org-version? I didn't request it to by this action. Or did it do a package-activate-all (or similar) to ensure that everything was loaded? That would be overkill. Sometimes the best answer is 'nil'. -- David Masterson
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Dec 2022 07:17:43 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 09 02:17:43 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34147 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1p3Xdf-0003pO-C2 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 02:17:43 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40324) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1p3Xdd-0003pI-Ln for 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 02:17:42 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1p3XdX-0007LH-Co; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 02:17:35 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=ySVERv42gNXuYxLpyZ/x5rM9dr8fhfQPCUmfseLDQDM=; b=q5gUDGzalLBR r3VpgToULJtXniInPI5O9LcqKinv/iDj9vdYpyBoNQbT8ABzeLFC/nb+lgR8GxUH51dWS3cYaGpN6 s3RAvCCF1SjN0UHVGQTAIf1LCHZuCo1VpWlq+tMqQ6pydf72UAPzJopPr5aSHwOrjJKlTzy1Lgjct ZNyG0qAmIcpw6aWYMRHX0AdsKCMvEDwdvIJzJas2i5rpUjaHyPvCRzwdpEZxFbHiNhLAggliCMEQ8 3Al9TO9YhcxQmnc2S56m3CjseWCo0XyA93qxLbr6nVKSEPIWv5ngcDbW0F0b2yTdsghzgh7LOPLRk WLAbmoyKifZ+KxSsk+NheA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1p3XdU-0004nD-5O; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 02:17:34 -0500 Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2022 09:17:23 +0200 Message-Id: <835yel11x8.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: David Masterson <dsmasterson@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> (message from David Masterson on Thu, 08 Dec 2022 13:56:03 -0800) Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB5455E1FA2C2887B0200CA8B6A21D9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54559D5E6849C26AAF6CA044A21D9@HIDDEN> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB54550C7727696BE317D0DD13A21D9@HIDDEN> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, michel@HIDDEN, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > From: David Masterson <dsmasterson@HIDDEN> > Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 13:56:03 -0800 > > In my testing, I found a strange case where, in *scratch*, I get: > > (message "%s" org-version) > ;; Error undefined > ;; Do 'C-h v org-version' > (message "%s" org-version) > 9.3 > > So, 'describe-variable' on org-version causes Org to be loaded?!? Why is it so surprising? Is this the first time you see that a Help command loads something to do its job?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
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Thu, 8 Dec 2022 21:56:05 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR03MB5455.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e016:84f7:daad:916e]) by SJ0PR03MB5455.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e016:84f7:daad:916e%3]) with mapi id 15.20.5880.014; Thu, 8 Dec 2022 21:56:05 +0000 From: David Masterson <dsmasterson@HIDDEN> To: "Michel Schinz" <michel@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem References: <SJ0PR03MB54550C18409A8F2DF921A77DA21B9@HIDDEN> <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB5455E1FA2C2887B0200CA8B6A21D9@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR03MB54559D5E6849C26AAF6CA044A21D9@HIDDEN> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <SJ0PR03MB54550C7727696BE317D0DD13A21D9@HIDDEN> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 13:56:03 -0800 In-Reply-To: <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@HIDDEN> (Michel Schinz's message of "Thu, 08 Dec 2022 20:31:13 +0100") Message-ID: <SJ0PR03MB5455B76B26B72A11E965BFE2A21D9@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) Content-Type: text/plain X-TMN: [trnxcCnnCJ9+hq24v9VfOXxQNcIFyfK37nXjrJmaZLLQBys2+z/rioakN8kbYWql] X-ClientProxiedBy: SJ0PR03CA0098.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:333::13) To SJ0PR03MB5455.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:27b::11) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87ililef0s.fsf@penguin> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 2 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: SJ0PR03MB5455:EE_|CH2PR03MB5334:EE_ X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 5cd9f053-0a74-44a8-400e-08dad967012f X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; 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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Adding this to bug #59882 "Michel Schinz" writes: > Just for the record, I also ran into problems when installing Org 9.6 > using Emacs' package system on top of an older version that came with > Emacs. If I tried to install it as usual (M-x list-pac [...] Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.0 FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD 'From' gmail.com does not match 'Received' headers 0.2 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record 0.2 FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT Envelope-from freemail username ends in digit (outlook_98c99531806b1c22[at]outlook.com) 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (outlook_98c99531806b1c22[at]outlook.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [40.92.40.20 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 22:53:27 -0500 Cc: emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) Adding this to bug #59882 "Michel Schinz" <michel@HIDDEN> writes: > Just for the record, I also ran into problems when installing Org 9.6 > using Emacs' package system on top of an older version that came with > Emacs. If I tried to install it as usual (M-x list-packages, then > install the package from there), I had errors during compilation related > to `org-assert-version`, and then if I restarted Emacs, I would get a > fatal error in an unrelated package. > > I managed to solve that problem by: > 1. uninstalling Org 9.6 and exiting Emacs, > 2. starting Emacs with -q, > 3. installing Org 9.6 from there (using M-x list-packages as usual), > 4. restarting Emacs. Interesting! I tried this (essentially) and it worked for my case. In my case, I had a built-in Org-9.3 and I was trying to use list-packages to install Org-9.6. I checked that using -q still added Org-9.3 to the load-path, but, since Org wasn't loaded, the install via list-packages worked. The question is what's the proper way of doing this without '-q'? > I'm not sure this is related to your problem, or whether that helps (but > I hope it does)... I think it does. Side note: In my testing, I found a strange case where, in *scratch*, I get: (message "%s" org-version) ;; Error undefined ;; Do 'C-h v org-version' (message "%s" org-version) 9.3 So, 'describe-variable' on org-version causes Org to be loaded?!? Why do I have a feeling this is related to this bug? -- David Masterson
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#59882; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Dec 2022 11:36:33 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 07 06:36:33 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49821 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1p2sj2-0003Rt-WA for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2022 06:36:33 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:51696) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1p2siy-0003Rd-HL for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2022 06:36:31 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1p2siy-0004Nj-6i for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Wed, 07 Dec 2022 06:36:28 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1p2sin-0003Cy-4D for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Wed, 07 Dec 2022 06:36:27 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42BF1240026 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Wed, 7 Dec 2022 12:36:12 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1670412975; bh=oXG8/LSRLrn+C3pitiNx2QdsS88M9iCOKhys65p2GE4=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From; b=a2HyNgZm67pZQV+k/r9yq9uvCEktF4jaheizgSwWrL24pcpFy2RN0xcHubVKzfX/V /meoDIxvbY4F0qUaMG/YgXSJdunWaEQtB2cGXg4Vvs8BXKQaqVw5StSGDCwysDFyx1 lSeCd/dCVjCr5YglQrPEAlkwouaWVcf303LQUkM08v6CWsfmgeP+2lI44PnrFwCfZl 0ftu0FIfp7gnG70BqxhgbIyyuBdASY+LuSG2YKjiFVKinodJCcRiDV8E3rjqME3JNy x6+l9jlqq5AuQRV/r58FfPMnLYYOR6v3AlFETnb1+Syx6aUzcwlJVZPYClKOnrPViz fuUOcfzRshaEw== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NRwGN1DLhz9rxN for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Wed, 7 Dec 2022 12:36:11 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Subject: 30.0.50; Compilation of ELPA packages during version upgrade (Org 9.6 ELPA upgrade from older ELPA version) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2022 11:36:07 +0000 Message-ID: <87mt7zh2e0.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@HIDDEN; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Hi, I am writing as a follow-up of numerous errors reports on Org 9.6 upgrades. Users commonly report issues upgrading Org mode via ELPA when an older, non-built-in, version of Org is already installed and loaded. The issue is well described in https://irreal.org/blog/?p=10996 People are commonly getting "invalid function `org-assert-version'", which indicates compilation issue when `org-assert-version' macro is not correctly recognized as a macro. Similar errors have been reported in the past Org upgrades when we introduced/changes some basic macros in Org. I am not yet sure about the source of the error, but I suspect that it might be something to do with package.el. May it be that M-x package-install / package-reinstall does not unload the old package versions upon installation? Or maybe there are some stale .elc files lying around? Any other ideas? P.S. Please, do not be diverted by the purpose of `org-assert-version' macro. The origin of the error has nothing to do with it and could as well happen with any other macro. It is just that we put this particular macro into all the Org libraries now, making the problem obvious. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>. Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>, or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
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