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Subject: bug#60854: Adjust icons shown with warnings
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Currently, warnings are visually "enhanced" with a =E2=9B=94 sign.
However, the warning signs are =EF=BB=BF=E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F or its slightly =
different European
version.

--=20
Fragen sind nicht da um beantwortet zu werden,
Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden
Georg Kreisler

Headaches with a Juju log:
unit-basic-16: 09:17:36 WARNING juju.worker.uniter.operation we should run
a leader-deposed hook here, but we can't yet

--00000000000009c2bd05f25ca1d9
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Currently, warnings are visually &quot;enhanced&quot;=
 with a =E2=9B=94 sign. <br></div><div>However, the warning signs are =EF=
=BB=BF=E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F or its slightly different European version. <br></=
div><div><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartma=
il=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>Fra=
gen sind nicht da um beantwortet zu werden,<br></div>Fragen sind da um gest=
ellt zu werden<br></div>Georg Kreisler</div><div><br></div><div>Headaches w=
ith a Juju log:</div><div>unit-basic-16: 09:17:36 WARNING juju.worker.unite=
r.operation we should run a leader-deposed hook here, but we can&#39;t yet<=
br><br></div></div></div></div></div></div>

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To: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#60854: Acknowledgement (Adjust icons shown with warnings)
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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2023 07:36:02 +0000

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Subject: bug#60854: Adjust icons shown with warnings
Resent-From: Daniel =?UTF-8?Q?Mart=C3=ADn?= <mardani29@HIDDEN>
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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2023 10:58:02 +0100
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 (Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez's message of "Mon, 16 Jan 2023 08:35:10
 +0100")
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Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@HIDDEN> writes:

> Currently, warnings are visually "enhanced" with a =E2=9B=94 sign.
> However, the warning signs are =EF=BB=BF=E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F or its slightl=
y different European
> version.

I had the same question as you, but it turns out that the =E2=9B=94 icon is=
 not
intended to represent a warning, it is a button that you can click to
*suppress* that warning type.

Perhaps we can choose a different Emoji to avoid confusion.  I don't
mind showing =E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F as the icon for that button, indeed.

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#60854: Adjust icons shown with warnings
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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2023 13:22:33 +0100
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Yes, it would create less confusion IMvvvHO

Thanks, /PA

On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 at 10:58, Daniel Mart=C3=ADn <mardani29@HIDDEN> wrote=
:

> Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@HIDDEN> writes:
>
> > Currently, warnings are visually "enhanced" with a =E2=9B=94 sign.
> > However, the warning signs are =EF=BB=BF=E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F or its sligh=
tly different European
> > version.
>
> I had the same question as you, but it turns out that the =E2=9B=94 icon =
is not
> intended to represent a warning, it is a button that you can click to
> *suppress* that warning type.
>
> Perhaps we can choose a different Emoji to avoid confusion.  I don't
> mind showing =E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F as the icon for that button, indeed.
>


--=20
Fragen sind nicht da um beantwortet zu werden,
Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden
Georg Kreisler

Headaches with a Juju log:
unit-basic-16: 09:17:36 WARNING juju.worker.uniter.operation we should run
a leader-deposed hook here, but we can't yet

--000000000000d2dadb05f260a477
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Yes, it would create less confusion IMvvvHO<div><br></div>=
<div>Thanks, /PA</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 at 10:58, Daniel Mart=C3=ADn &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:mardani29@HIDDEN">mardani29@HIDDEN</a>&gt; wrote:<br>=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;b=
order-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Pedro Andres Aranda=
 Gutierrez &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paaguti@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">paagu=
ti@HIDDEN</a>&gt; writes:<br>
<br>
&gt; Currently, warnings are visually &quot;enhanced&quot; with a =E2=9B=94=
 sign.<br>
&gt; However, the warning signs are =EF=BB=BF=E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F or its slig=
htly different European<br>
&gt; version.<br>
<br>
I had the same question as you, but it turns out that the =E2=9B=94 icon is=
 not<br>
intended to represent a warning, it is a button that you can click to<br>
*suppress* that warning type.<br>
<br>
Perhaps we can choose a different Emoji to avoid confusion.=C2=A0 I don&#39=
;t<br>
mind showing =E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F as the icon for that button, indeed.<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div=
>Fragen sind nicht da um beantwortet zu werden,<br></div>Fragen sind da um =
gestellt zu werden<br></div>Georg Kreisler</div><div><br></div><div>Headach=
es with a Juju log:</div><div>unit-basic-16: 09:17:36 WARNING juju.worker.u=
niter.operation we should run a leader-deposed hook here, but we can&#39;t =
yet<br><br></div></div></div></div>

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On 1/16/2023 1:58 AM, Daniel Martín via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the 
Swiss army knife of text editors wrote:
> Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
>> Currently, warnings are visually "enhanced" with a ⛔ sign.
>> However, the warning signs are ⚠️ or its slightly different European
>> version.
> 
> I had the same question as you, but it turns out that the ⛔ icon is not
> intended to represent a warning, it is a button that you can click to
> *suppress* that warning type.

I think the confusion is that the literal meaning of the ⛔ icon is "No 
Entry", so it's very easy to read it as, "Stop! Don't go this way 
because there's a problem ahead."

Perhaps a bit better would be 🚫, whose official name is apparently "No 
Entry Sign", even though the slashed circle visual usually just means 
"No ____", e.g. "No Smoking". Hence, some sources call it the Prohibited 
emoji.

Another way to handle the UI (which I see more often, and personally 
prefer) is that the button is a toggle, and its icon indicates the 
current state. This would require adding a bit of code so that clicking 
the button again *un*suppresses the warning, but then you could use 
something like ⚠️ to indicate that the warning is currently enabled (and 
clicking it will suppress it), and maybe ⚪ or ⚬ to indicate that the 
warning is currently suppressed (and clicking it will reenable it). Or 
maybe ❗ and ❕, respectively?

We could also add actual images for this icon if none of these are quite 
right, and use the emoji as a fallback.

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

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From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@HIDDEN>
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=46rom a European driver=E2=80=99s POV, the signs that seemed to make most s=
ense to me on the other side of the pond were the warning signs, maybe becau=
se they were triangles too=E2=80=A6

;-)

/PA

Enviado desde mi iPhone

> El 16 ene 2023, a las 20:30, Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> escribi=C3=
=B3:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BFOn 1/16/2023 1:58 AM, Daniel Mart=C3=ADn via Bug reports for GNU E=
macs, the Swiss army knife of text editors wrote:
>> Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@HIDDEN> writes:
>>> Currently, warnings are visually "enhanced" with a =E2=9B=94 sign.
>>> However, the warning signs are =EF=BB=BF=E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F or its slight=
ly different European
>>> version.
>> I had the same question as you, but it turns out that the =E2=9B=94 icon i=
s not
>> intended to represent a warning, it is a button that you can click to
>> *suppress* that warning type.
>=20
> I think the confusion is that the literal meaning of the =E2=9B=94 icon is=
 "No Entry", so it's very easy to read it as, "Stop! Don't go this way becau=
se there's a problem ahead."
>=20
> Perhaps a bit better would be =F0=9F=9A=AB, whose official name is apparen=
tly "No Entry Sign", even though the slashed circle visual usually just mean=
s "No ____", e.g. "No Smoking". Hence, some sources call it the Prohibited e=
moji.
>=20
> Another way to handle the UI (which I see more often, and personally prefe=
r) is that the button is a toggle, and its icon indicates the current state.=
 This would require adding a bit of code so that clicking the button again *=
un*suppresses the warning, but then you could use something like =E2=9A=A0=EF=
=B8=8F to indicate that the warning is currently enabled (and clicking it wi=
ll suppress it), and maybe =E2=9A=AA or =E2=9A=AC to indicate that the warni=
ng is currently suppressed (and clicking it will reenable it). Or maybe =E2=9D=
=97 and =E2=9D=95, respectively?
>=20
> We could also add actual images for this icon if none of these are quite r=
ight, and use the emoji as a fallback.

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

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From: =?UTF-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin?= Le Gouguec <kevin.legouguec@HIDDEN>
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(Passing by, can't remember the whole thread, sorry if what I'm
suggesting has already be said)

Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> writes:

> On 1/16/2023 1:58 AM, Daniel Mart=C3=ADn via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, t=
he Swiss
> army knife of text editors wrote:
>> Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@HIDDEN> writes:
>>=20
>>> Currently, warnings are visually "enhanced" with a =E2=9B=94 sign.
>>> However, the warning signs are =EF=BB=BF=E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F or its sligh=
tly different European
>>> version.
>> I had the same question as you, but it turns out that the =E2=9B=94 icon=
 is not
>> intended to represent a warning, it is a button that you can click to
>> *suppress* that warning type.
>
> I think the confusion is that the literal meaning of the =E2=9B=94 icon i=
s "No Entry",
> so it's very easy to read it as, "Stop! Don't go this way because there's=
 a
> problem ahead."
>
> Perhaps a bit better would be =F0=9F=9A=AB, whose official name is appare=
ntly "No Entry
> Sign", even though the slashed circle visual usually just means "No ____",
> e.g. "No Smoking". Hence, some sources call it the Prohibited emoji.

(My =C2=A22: wouldn't a cross mark (=E2=9D=8C) also work to convey the idea=
 of
"suppressing" something?)

> We could also add actual images for this icon if none of these are quite =
right,
> and use the emoji as a fallback.

The new icons.el that comes with Emacs 29 would be a prime candidate for
implementing this, right?  It has the advantage of giving the user some
degree of control via icon-preference.

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

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On 1/17/2023 2:19 PM, Kévin Le Gouguec wrote:
> Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> writes:
>> Perhaps a bit better would be 🚫, whose official name is apparently "No Entry
>> Sign", even though the slashed circle visual usually just means "No ____",
>> e.g. "No Smoking". Hence, some sources call it the Prohibited emoji.
> 
> (My ¢2: wouldn't a cross mark (❌) also work to convey the idea of
> "suppressing" something?)

That would work too. I still like turning this into a toggle button 
where the icon shows the current state (i.e. is it an active warning - 
⚠️ - or has it been suppressed - ⚬). But changing to 🚫 or ❌ would be 
single-character patches, which is nice too.

> The new icons.el that comes with Emacs 29 would be a prime candidate for
> implementing this, right?  It has the advantage of giving the user some
> degree of control via icon-preference.

Yup, the icon we have today is implemented via icons.el:

  (define-icon warnings-suppress button
     '((emoji "⛔")
       (symbol " ■ ")
       (text " stop "))
     "Suppress warnings."
     :version "29.1"
     :help-echo "Click to suppress this warning type")

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From: =?UTF-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin?= Le Gouguec <kevin.legouguec@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <346de561-ac0f-017b-832a-036ff3eadb99@HIDDEN> (Jim Porter's
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Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> writes:

> On 1/17/2023 2:19 PM, K=C3=A9vin Le Gouguec wrote:
>> Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> writes:
>>> Perhaps a bit better would be =F0=9F=9A=AB, whose official name is appa=
rently "No Entry
>>> Sign", even though the slashed circle visual usually just means "No ___=
_",
>>> e.g. "No Smoking". Hence, some sources call it the Prohibited emoji.
>> (My =C2=A22: wouldn't a cross mark (=E2=9D=8C) also work to convey the i=
dea of
>> "suppressing" something?)
>
> That would work too. I still like turning this into a toggle button where=
 the
> icon shows the current state (i.e. is it an active warning - =E2=9A=A0=EF=
=B8=8F - or has it been
> suppressed - =E2=9A=AC). But changing to =F0=9F=9A=AB or =E2=9D=8C would =
be single-character patches,
> which is nice too.

Sure, the toggle sounds like a nice idea regardless, since IIUC right
now a user has to go through Customize to take warnings off either
warning-suppress-*types.

(Sorry for the idle musing, this is the first time I look at what knobs
 warnings.el lets the user tweak.

 As things stand, if a user doesn't want to completely ignore a warning,
 their only choices seem to be "pop *Warnings*" or "meh, tuck it in
 *Warnings* but don't pop; hopefully I'll remember to check that buffer
 someday", is that correct?

 Might be nice to have further options for "suppression", e.g.=E2=80=A6

 "don't pop the *Warnings* buffer, but display in echo area", or
                               "=E2=80=A6  but add a modeline indicator"

 =E2=80=A6 but that's its own feature request)

>> The new icons.el that comes with Emacs 29 would be a prime candidate for
>> implementing this, right?  It has the advantage of giving the user some
>> degree of control via icon-preference.
>
> Yup, the icon we have today is implemented via icons.el:
>
> =EF=BB=BF  (define-icon warnings-suppress button
>     '((emoji "=E2=9B=94")
>       (symbol " =E2=96=A0 ")
>       (text " stop "))
>     "Suppress warnings."
>     :version "29.1"
>     :help-echo "Click to suppress this warning type")

(Ah, great, so we're only missing an 'image entry for that one.  Just a
trivial matter of choosing what the image should look like then =F0=9F=98=
=81)

Thanks for the answers =F0=9F=99=8F

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>>>>> On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 07:51:19 +0100, K=C3=A9vin Le Gouguec <kevin.lego=
uguec@HIDDEN> said:

    K=C3=A9vin> Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> writes:
    >> On 1/17/2023 2:19 PM, K=C3=A9vin Le Gouguec wrote:
    >>> Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> writes:
    >>>> Perhaps a bit better would be =F0=9F=9A=AB, whose official name is=
 apparently "No Entry
    >>>> Sign", even though the slashed circle visual usually just means "N=
o ____",
    >>>> e.g. "No Smoking". Hence, some sources call it the Prohibited emoj=
i.
    >>> (My =C2=A22: wouldn't a cross mark (=E2=9D=8C) also work to convey =
the idea of
    >>> "suppressing" something?)
    >>=20
    >> That would work too. I still like turning this into a toggle button =
where the
    >> icon shows the current state (i.e. is it an active warning - =E2=9A=
=A0=EF=B8=8F - or has it been
    >> suppressed - =E2=9A=AC). But changing to =F0=9F=9A=AB or =E2=9D=8C w=
ould be single-character patches,
    >> which is nice too.

    K=C3=A9vin> Sure, the toggle sounds like a nice idea regardless, since =
IIUC right
    K=C3=A9vin> now a user has to go through Customize to take warnings off=
 either
    K=C3=A9vin> warning-suppress-*types.

    K=C3=A9vin> (Sorry for the idle musing, this is the first time I look a=
t what knobs
    K=C3=A9vin>  warnings.el lets the user tweak.

    K=C3=A9vin>  As things stand, if a user doesn't want to completely igno=
re a warning,
    K=C3=A9vin>  their only choices seem to be "pop *Warnings*" or "meh, tu=
ck it in
    K=C3=A9vin>  *Warnings* but don't pop; hopefully I'll remember to check=
 that buffer
    K=C3=A9vin>  someday", is that correct?

Yes

    K=C3=A9vin>  Might be nice to have further options for "suppression", e=
.g.=E2=80=A6

    K=C3=A9vin>  "don't pop the *Warnings* buffer, but display in echo area=
", or
    K=C3=A9vin>                                "=E2=80=A6  but add a modeli=
ne indicator"

    K=C3=A9vin>  =E2=80=A6 but that's its own feature request)

Sure. Just don=CA=BCt turn that on by default :-)

    >>> The new icons.el that comes with Emacs 29 would be a prime candidat=
e for
    >>> implementing this, right?  It has the advantage of giving the user =
some
    >>> degree of control via icon-preference.
    >>=20
    >> Yup, the icon we have today is implemented via icons.el:
    >>=20
    >> =EF=BB=BF  (define-icon warnings-suppress button
    >> '((emoji "=E2=9B=94")
    >> (symbol " =E2=96=A0 ")
    >> (text " stop "))
    >> "Suppress warnings."
    >> :version "29.1"
    >> :help-echo "Click to suppress this warning type")

    K=C3=A9vin> (Ah, great, so we're only missing an 'image entry for that =
one.  Just a
    K=C3=A9vin> trivial matter of choosing what the image should look like =
then =F0=9F=98=81)

Whilst you=CA=BCre changing stuff, the text should not be "stop", it should
be "suppress" or "ignore" or something.

Robert
--=20

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From: Rudolf =?UTF-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= <salutis@HIDDEN>
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Daniel Mart=C3=ADn via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of =
text
editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> writes:

> [...] but it turns out that the =E2=9B=94 icon is not intended to represe=
nt a
> warning, it is a button that you can click to *suppress* that warning typ=
e.

Wow!  I have used computers for decades, and I would have never guessed tha=
t one
can click the emoji icon to suppress the warning type.  Using Emojis as UI =
icons
almost always backfires and personally, I find none of the icons proposed in
this thread clear.  But even if I did, I would have never guessed that they
function as buttons.

Rudy
--=20
"Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration."
-- Thomas Alva Edison, 1932

Rudolf Adamkovi=C4=8D <salutis@HIDDEN> [he/him]
Studenohorsk=C3=A1 25
84103 Bratislava
Slovakia

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merge 61413 60854
thanks

> From: Konstantin Kharlamov <Hi-Angel@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2023 11:45:59 +0300
> 
> Stop-sign emoji is confusing in context of warnings, because it
> typically has red color, and looks like there was some error. Let's use
> instead a "warning" emoji, which is typically shown in yellow color and
> doesn't look as if immediate attention is needed.

This is a duplicate of bug#60854: you are misinterpreting the purpose
of the Emoji here.

Last modified: Sat, 11 Feb 2023 10:45:01 UTC

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