GNU logs - #63536, boring messages

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#63536: Feature Request
Resent-From: Andrew Goh <andrewgoh95@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 11:41:01 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.63536.B.168423722614991 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
To: 63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 11:39:56 +0000 (UTC)
From: Andrew Goh <andrewgoh95@HIDDEN>
Message-ID: <1553770628.2069339.1684237196253@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
 boundary="----=_Part_2069338_1646704965.1684237196252"
References: <1553770628.2069339.1684237196253.ref@HIDDEN>
Content-Length: 1357
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=106.10.241.209;
 envelope-from=andrewgoh95@HIDDEN;
 helo=sonic308-19.consmr.mail.sg3.yahoo.com
X-Spam_score_int: -18
X-Spam_score: -1.9
X-Spam_bar: -
X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1,
 DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1,
 FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001,
 T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
X-Spam_action: no action
X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-)
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--)

------=_Part_2069338_1646704965.1684237196252
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear Emacs,
Could we have a "update function" feature to keep emacs current.
Seriously, I would prefer reading a real gnu emacs manual rather than a online version.

--- Andrew Goh

------=_Part_2069338_1646704965.1684237196252
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<html><head></head><body><div class="ydp7d07f27cyahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:courier new, courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Dear Emacs,</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Could we have a "update function" feature to keep emacs current.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Seriously, I would prefer reading a real gnu emacs manual rather than a online version.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div><br></div><div class="ydp7d07f27csignature"><div style="font-family:courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div dir="ltr"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">--- Andrew Goh</font></div><font size="2" style="font-size:13px;"><br></font></div></div></div></div></body></html>
------=_Part_2069338_1646704965.1684237196252--

Message sent:

Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Andrew Goh <andrewgoh95@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#63536: Acknowledgement (Feature Request)
Message-ID: <handler.63536.B.168423722614991.ack <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
References: <1553770628.2069339.1684237196253@HIDDEN>
X-Gnu-PR-Message: ack 63536
X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs
Reply-To: 63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 11:41:02 +0000

Thank you for filing a new bug report with debbugs.gnu.org.

This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message
has been received.

Your message is being forwarded to the package maintainers and other
interested parties for their attention; they will reply in due course.

Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s):
 bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN

If you wish to submit further information on this problem, please
send it to 63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org.

Please do not send mail to help-debbugs@HIDDEN unless you wish
to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system.

--=20
63536: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D63536
GNU Bug Tracking System
Contact help-debbugs@HIDDEN with problems

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#63536: Feature Request
Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 15:47:02 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.63536.B63536.168425197511042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
To: Andrew Goh <andrewgoh95@HIDDEN>
Cc: 63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 18:46:14 +0300
Message-Id: <83sfbwz3cp.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <1553770628.2069339.1684237196253@HIDDEN>
 (bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN)
References: <1553770628.2069339.1684237196253.ref@HIDDEN>
 <1553770628.2069339.1684237196253@HIDDEN>
Precedence: list
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>

severity 63536 wishlist
thanks

> Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 11:39:56 +0000 (UTC)
> From:  Andrew Goh via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
>  the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
> 
> Could we have a "update function" feature to keep emacs current.

Maybe.  But please describe what would such a function do...

> Seriously, I would prefer reading a real gnu emacs manual rather than a online version.

...and how would it be relevant to which version of the manual you
will read.

Thanks.

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#63536: Feature Request
Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 10:59:01 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.63536.B63536.168432113331287 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
To: Andrew Goh <andrewgoh95@HIDDEN>
Cc: 63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 13:58:51 +0300
Message-Id: <83y1lnxlzo.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <2050007547.2204916.1684290974957@HIDDEN> (message from
 Andrew Goh on Wed, 17 May 2023 02:36:14 +0000 (UTC))
References: <1553770628.2069339.1684237196253.ref@HIDDEN>
 <1553770628.2069339.1684237196253@HIDDEN> <83sfbwz3cp.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <2050007547.2204916.1684290974957@HIDDEN>
Precedence: list
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>

> Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 02:36:14 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Andrew Goh <andrewgoh95@HIDDEN>
> 
> to check for new updates. many IDEs out there have this feature - such as jgrasp, vs code, vs ide etc.

Updates of what?

(And please use Reply All to reply, so that the bug tracker is CC'ed.)

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#63536: Feature Request
Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 13:38:02 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.63536.B63536.16843306423506 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 63536
X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs
X-GNU-PR-Keywords: 
To: Andrew Goh <andrewgoh95@HIDDEN>
Cc: 63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Received: via spool by 63536-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B63536.16843306423506
          (code B ref 63536); Wed, 17 May 2023 13:38:02 +0000
Received: (at 63536) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 May 2023 13:37:22 +0000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49316 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1pzHLG-0000uU-I2
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 May 2023 09:37:22 -0400
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37930)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1pzHLE-0000uF-DP
 for 63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 May 2023 09:37:20 -0400
Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e])
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>)
 id 1pzHL8-0004u4-V2; Wed, 17 May 2023 09:37:15 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org;
 s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date:
 mime-version; bh=j9o3T9GgB6txkFT+XBy0pIAQ+JpPfAW1wVvI4xDUkCw=; b=dUYjB8PAdZ7o
 JuNadRd7pbCcrRcPG6Mc5w+K0tK0JMeKhnIiP88kcN0yH+RrhWSPCQZXleArPFYqqS0NyTyYbJDoa
 RcJ9F2NgHpmm2EEpqzNKczB8P8ri+WT5zsuJDPoLACeQ381x+rK/A/4nmnkj1SIWw7Vyf8c5VhXIN
 xrz4QYq/pVuCcHaunPdZxoX5nV6+HuM+huhu9BKxK+RZzmAS831HjXrp0wXoPfUEzW5zfUXDGIlu7
 DMWdi7rnKwgqGCJ3EN36fvEW5P74pZHCBvdPwprGwDwCTijTRu3PzRYOKOFh2eV1M+5RigVrWYBkw
 bdDJ1+9Fp7D59gsTDTjNMw==;
Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7)
 by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>)
 id 1pzHL8-0005TH-FF; Wed, 17 May 2023 09:37:14 -0400
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 16:37:24 +0300
Message-Id: <83bkijxenf.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <1884442844.2472195.1684329429592@HIDDEN> (message from
 Andrew Goh on Wed, 17 May 2023 13:17:09 +0000 (UTC))
References: <1553770628.2069339.1684237196253.ref@HIDDEN>
 <1553770628.2069339.1684237196253@HIDDEN> <83sfbwz3cp.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <2050007547.2204916.1684290974957@HIDDEN> <83y1lnxlzo.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <1884442844.2472195.1684329429592@HIDDEN>
X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--)
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---)

[PLEASE use Reply All to have the bug tracker on the CC list.]

> Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 13:17:09 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Andrew Goh <andrewgoh95@HIDDEN>
> 
> Updates of GNU Emacs.  Many software tools out in the proprietary world have such a feature.

So you want a command to check whether a newer Emacs is available?
But where should this command look?  Many (most?) people install
precompiled binaries prepared by their distros, and I assume those
distros have their "check for updates" service or something?

We could check on the GNU FTP site, but how many users will want to
download and build Emacs from sources?

What do other people think about this?

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#63536: Feature Request
References: <1553770628.2069339.1684237196253@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <1553770628.2069339.1684237196253@HIDDEN>
Resent-From: Payas Relekar <relekarpayas@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 16:13:02 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.63536.B63536.1684339947820 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 63536
X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs
X-GNU-PR-Keywords: 
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Cc: 63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Andrew Goh <andrewgoh95@HIDDEN>
Received: via spool by 63536-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B63536.1684339947820
          (code B ref 63536); Wed, 17 May 2023 16:13:02 +0000
Received: (at 63536) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 May 2023 16:12:27 +0000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50755 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1pzJlL-0000DA-D1
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 May 2023 12:12:27 -0400
Received: from mail-pg1-f173.google.com ([209.85.215.173]:62713)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <relekarpayas@HIDDEN>) id 1pzJlJ-0000Co-1s
 for 63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 May 2023 12:12:25 -0400
Received: by mail-pg1-f173.google.com with SMTP id
 41be03b00d2f7-5289ce6be53so141781a12.0
 for <63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 17 May 2023 09:12:25 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1684339939; x=1686931939;
 h=mime-version:message-id:date:subject:cc:to:from:user-agent:from:to
 :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=q+LVQYRsQHsjJJi0a1xdXmuK5mG72U67wDu5VSKFTh0=;
 b=Nf+e7Tnff5RVdNBDtePrCg1tv6qDCIhTrqfW4tV0qYq1G+lBKSelr06TDzpZ55LmlJ
 9vc7Xrf6njkKjRipBAcpQ5m44yX7bgEzFF6WU9LkKm1yJtqHaAtq4I/tz+66iMO4Dgbp
 MUjcxHFlEtdAwGCw0wR2I8RBoerId5krbSxzcoOTbRsuB/fiR17uI+afwgFC5/NvUqeG
 xkwqgTSqNNaEu6ABetd9Kjc3k0JQVRDKR5DATkQuvZzW7NtP3mmAjfz1aScyNqyvW6Di
 PUI6fYLKWVKIrW7JsYylLHIoMJOycoIvSEA9Gg9gRYumN77QpZsGHsQQZ6mpAMzox0AP
 9xfg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1684339939; x=1686931939;
 h=mime-version:message-id:date:subject:cc:to:from:user-agent
 :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=q+LVQYRsQHsjJJi0a1xdXmuK5mG72U67wDu5VSKFTh0=;
 b=Wn15wzrvZ40Dz3sbrEzlT7/b3mamwe+l+AoIqOkw/8dFAC5dTylibGqu3EMB+iKwGp
 XNv6HvZPdttok0TeZzShS+0XD50mxvfYO60fXPxi+kxty1i1KkBe7h7CFw2bNCFivPGI
 fwd2JKBA2yQ7MkYnW3MGHkpDNS1ugQf8eNx9sUlZkW49kWLDnPvgp4SydZFIik+gWnzI
 /O5jO/O+h/pkV19RTTDst5udjqMANh+LcTaAFMH7UfCKyg8gN6DSbIhp+KMP/1tH+2Nz
 9I0sQNLXsV3o0SCLGRCvCQSMGIi9wc/f3kAkKNoblfOiDcfn7Xfcf6NT987QJSFxANXu
 5alg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDwj6JO4C87NUTGCDAhyEX2aYsq4F2+wnutjDuBsqKGZWKmASFKt
 X2JRcKdk8LBp3jXCId2NTCk=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ6o8grq69J+9t1QRwvydficEgt24Zh+alCXwng0HM9W1jG+gmfrU5jBdLe6QsZylj33kJ4kjg==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:1383:b0:24e:3e07:9e27 with SMTP id
 i3-20020a17090a138300b0024e3e079e27mr110868pja.10.1684339938926; 
 Wed, 17 May 2023 09:12:18 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (aipl-9-69-179-202.ankhnet.net. [202.179.69.9])
 by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id
 j22-20020a17090a589600b00250334d97dasm1755243pji.31.2023.05.17.09.12.17
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
 Wed, 17 May 2023 09:12:18 -0700 (PDT)
User-agent: mu4e 1.10.3; emacs 29.0.91
From: Payas Relekar <relekarpayas@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 19:34:06 +0530
Message-ID: <87o7mjyrng.fsf@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

> So you want a command to check whether a newer Emacs is available?
> But where should this command look?  Many (most?) people install
> precompiled binaries prepared by their distros, and I assume those
> distros have their "check for updates" service or something?
>
> We could check on the GNU FTP site, but how many users will want to
> download and build Emacs from sources?
>
> What do other people think about this?

The idea itself is valid, as long as the update check happens only at
explicit user action. The command should only compare current version of
Emacs with the latest update and inform user about the difference. Then
the onus is on user to proceed with the update. Command output can point
them to relevant section of the manual, informing of ways to install
(and also update) Emacs.

Optionally, this function can be run at startup for automated update
check, opt-in by default, of course. I believe that will match the
behavior of 'most' proprietary IDEs.

The idea of Emacs setup/startup screen shines with stuff like this,
where these options are selected by user at the very beginning. This can
even be included in current startup screen as simple hyperlink, IMO and
would be a worthy addition.

It can also optionally include updating all the activated *ELPAs.

Perhaps it can be called something like `emacs-check-update`?

--

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#63536: Feature Request
Resent-From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 16:54:02 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.63536.B63536.16843424265917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 63536
X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs
X-GNU-PR-Keywords: 
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Andrew Goh <andrewgoh95@HIDDEN>
Cc: 63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Received: via spool by 63536-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B63536.16843424265917
          (code B ref 63536); Wed, 17 May 2023 16:54:02 +0000
Received: (at 63536) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 May 2023 16:53:46 +0000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50811 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1pzKPJ-0001XM-V8
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 May 2023 12:53:46 -0400
Received: from mail-pl1-f181.google.com ([209.85.214.181]:58867)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>) id 1pzKPI-0001X4-97
 for 63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 May 2023 12:53:44 -0400
Received: by mail-pl1-f181.google.com with SMTP id
 d9443c01a7336-1ae3f6e5d70so10633475ad.1
 for <63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 17 May 2023 09:53:44 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1684342418; x=1686934418;
 h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to
 :content-language:subject:mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc
 :subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=tjPxfbv5LVG91A9E+cywnl5RYdep2vWpj93tE4eNZR8=;
 b=GxQlradWX8XQZmXEaGuRWMBhIszGf7p6QNpgS2H6K4Yy65Tj/Vx8eO44gAG3MsSAIM
 J+uXyzkwQeYBo+JU70t5cLMQ5qEpvqVXeVCNM7EUv3rM8+ELIIn8B2KYef0DmR53WfLR
 n0B83ZiVJLlpGHaKHO9I2a8XIOIPQK/gompBgV1glf1C2L99KaSlGXOukEtqk+l0JQcu
 ykoVk7o6NvOo2+zSEFph1jcBjMtWA4U4NgP4auRKGA3HNTxjIpZJWmcO4fr9a6RPRpc9
 JfWy9zYwZBoavhBh2nwIE1PkGQtBQq2NCMqPgzKMNT9pR3FyMD8w8P0Q2CZctCHSqloM
 mgHg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1684342418; x=1686934418;
 h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to
 :content-language:subject:mime-version:date:message-id
 :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=tjPxfbv5LVG91A9E+cywnl5RYdep2vWpj93tE4eNZR8=;
 b=k66s4VUSWSh8/BebxAnV687DXBTGC8awmGbw9j/oTbPKtLsc2nSF6+j0W4SnfzEY56
 IfY0lSr/aaEYysT5YGGUny/cNA8aknTZxL2bUmkC0LOq+58rkOXFFjUnLCPst9saNXo2
 LVnChOwm2MaWepejJd18UnsAGXv3g/FLAPIZ8HFGCbNYkhRzV7zud0iYTO70zWXI3nra
 uHM41H56F1vN3RDBJ/LXh3towCZg7wUpEZQBdiH1PmEcwhdL2CnJEi8baAstTNx3iUMc
 w3BpS+JH1wrY6ETmxTAYpIEnIdsDR7bELHlYLlpqhaqWOKbhjlAYpu5lsCDQPkVwQ1KV
 ff7g==
X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDxtL0pgG1yxQusQl03DDot/wMy3iZx53tehbWet8Pb9CTZuAyot
 TqsClCIuY3Zue6cs0FouDsA=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ46nRh46vGSPymmf1lZUcqswH+JS2MYiE6NIBEn8vUt/1iP6exahk+6g7gdKaSDf51Jeb/RDQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:cec9:b0:19a:a9d8:e47f with SMTP id
 d9-20020a170902cec900b0019aa9d8e47fmr58748542plg.36.1684342418223; 
 Wed, 17 May 2023 09:53:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-76-168-148-233.socal.res.rr.com.
 [76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id
 y16-20020a17090322d000b001acaf7e26bbsm15911163plg.53.2023.05.17.09.53.37
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128);
 Wed, 17 May 2023 09:53:37 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <c057f731-bceb-3f91-c56d-875ffd3b5b0b@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 09:53:38 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Language: en-US
References: <1553770628.2069339.1684237196253.ref@HIDDEN>
 <1553770628.2069339.1684237196253@HIDDEN> <83sfbwz3cp.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <2050007547.2204916.1684290974957@HIDDEN> <83y1lnxlzo.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <1884442844.2472195.1684329429592@HIDDEN> <83bkijxenf.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <83bkijxenf.fsf@HIDDEN>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

On 5/17/2023 6:37 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> So you want a command to check whether a newer Emacs is available?
> But where should this command look?  Many (most?) people install
> precompiled binaries prepared by their distros, and I assume those
> distros have their "check for updates" service or something?
> 
> We could check on the GNU FTP site, but how many users will want to
> download and build Emacs from sources?
> 
> What do other people think about this?

I think we could fairly easily *check* for the existence of a newer 
Emacs release, but the hard part is what to do about it. Is it enough to 
merely tell the user, "Emacs 29.1 is released," and just expect the user 
to figure out how to update?

For users who get their Emacs from their distro, the distro is 
responsible for updates then. We can ignore that case.[1] (Ditto for any 
other package manager: PPAs, Homebrew, etc.)

However, for users who get their Emacs from GNU FTP, the only update 
mechanism right now is 100% manual. It would be interesting to try to 
fix that, but it also seems difficult: if the user downloaded Emacs and 
compiled from source, can we make 100% sure that we can do that 
programmatically for the next release? What if Emacs adds a new library 
dependency? Maybe GNU FTP could also distribute binaries in some fashion 
instead[2], but that's yet another complexity to work out. If we 
distributed binaries, how would we do so?

If someone wanted to spend the time to figure out all the issues with 
this, I think there'd be value in it, but I also think it's more effort 
than it's worth (unless this is literally just a notification, nothing 
more).

[1] That's what Firefox does too: if you install Firefox from Mozilla, 
it'll handle updating itself, but if you install it from your distro, 
the distro handles the updates.

[2] There are the MS-Windows binaries, but I don't think we should be 
spending too much effort on something that would only benefit users of a 
nonfree OS.

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#63536: Feature Request
Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 17:17:02 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.63536.B63536.16843437788920 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 63536
X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs
X-GNU-PR-Keywords: 
To: Payas Relekar <relekarpayas@HIDDEN>
Cc: 63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, andrewgoh95@HIDDEN
Received: via spool by 63536-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B63536.16843437788920
          (code B ref 63536); Wed, 17 May 2023 17:17:02 +0000
Received: (at 63536) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 May 2023 17:16:18 +0000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50857 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1pzKl7-0002Jo-L1
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 May 2023 13:16:17 -0400
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35390)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1pzKl6-0002Ja-2d
 for 63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 May 2023 13:16:16 -0400
Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e])
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>)
 id 1pzKl0-0006Q8-Bb; Wed, 17 May 2023 13:16:10 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org;
 s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date:
 mime-version; bh=muo9+eFu0pUIwPY0mGMA1W14O3I/KABshK0KjHz3I9E=; b=ZLc4lBJdOLGC
 5tnQ3Q2DZkO9/V52ZN/xM10YoISXXaryuvEh6gfOHXB442lx2OSHE3yof9PAVRjMTIqSLwHgUAx20
 IMQhXtaGDGCmFyaxWB3sMmEcs1oUkRRLQ1dyFoUsmuGWPOr/vTcXSI6qXAWFBGeOLjBOQDLALnYhh
 rF0c2JKlmHk9R1zFGwRifEBqnOFopw6aS+PsCIjLMAI2yCD0/NS+nhuQh4JK9dJiMstg6mPznrlB0
 vBDtG6Etgjx5Ub6YGiEr14ciasmrew8ck+QQPUvl+wHvEqy/ayHXsh1sDERbmDus5KdMNjFPWD/o4
 VjaWX4qmc6lXgsXhYMdceQ==;
Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7)
 by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>)
 id 1pzKky-0005PW-06; Wed, 17 May 2023 13:16:09 -0400
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 20:16:18 +0300
Message-Id: <831qjeyj31.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <87o7mjyrng.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Payas Relekar on Wed, 17
 May 2023 19:34:06 +0530)
References: <87o7mjyrng.fsf@HIDDEN>
X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--)
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---)

> From: Payas Relekar <relekarpayas@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Andrew Goh <andrewgoh95@HIDDEN>,  63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 19:34:06 +0530
> 
> The idea itself is valid, as long as the update check happens only at
> explicit user action. The command should only compare current version of
> Emacs with the latest update and inform user about the difference. Then
> the onus is on user to proceed with the update. Command output can point
> them to relevant section of the manual, informing of ways to install
> (and also update) Emacs.

How will we know where to look?  That's the main technical issue with
this, I think.

Another possible issue is whether just to tell the user "A newer
version XY.Z is available, you can download it at <URL>", or also
offer a possibility of actually downloading the newer version?

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#63536: Feature Request
References: <1553770628.2069339.1684237196253@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <1553770628.2069339.1684237196253@HIDDEN>
Resent-From: Payas Relekar <relekarpayas@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 17:45:02 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.63536.B63536.168434548612187 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 63536
X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs
X-GNU-PR-Keywords: 
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Cc: 63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, andrewgoh95@HIDDEN
Received: via spool by 63536-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B63536.168434548612187
          (code B ref 63536); Wed, 17 May 2023 17:45:02 +0000
Received: (at 63536) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 May 2023 17:44:46 +0000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50966 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1pzLCg-0003AT-H5
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 May 2023 13:44:46 -0400
Received: from mail-pl1-f171.google.com ([209.85.214.171]:56446)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <relekarpayas@HIDDEN>) id 1pzLCd-0003AD-V2
 for 63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 May 2023 13:44:44 -0400
Received: by mail-pl1-f171.google.com with SMTP id
 d9443c01a7336-1ae4be0b1f3so8865675ad.0
 for <63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 17 May 2023 10:44:43 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1684345478; x=1686937478;
 h=mime-version:message-id:date:subject:cc:to:from:user-agent:from:to
 :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=ziMj1hBRpYvXgG3S5Sp34JM3TQCcn1VpjAu/2FepPYQ=;
 b=gLuttRhnf9CYsEp0WWtCZU9heyWit6TS7x8jCTM0JZ+n6cwdTtZuZJ5r2mFNxDN+eV
 zH2fqqf+kHVocfpci4RZCfUAwHQYFLRUW20+O0zTGKeA0izwwWhDasgo6P2I31PgIElb
 vDlLX2zqMcZAw0DCltj4ovzDikVj4DXGl2nSssETdK/MRbECHlYNljpTI5LbBK69fRL/
 JVJdSCjAdKWOKq1ygWcBIM1AspP2aXIHMD0DWHSdTCQ+gRQtQ7jj5jsfbhhNxTlAa2HD
 06ebt400gcXTgxSQgDH9K0nZ94z/Uez7P62b0ebpXTfFI0OUsnDibFCumIyfHMPTZUDr
 olQQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1684345478; x=1686937478;
 h=mime-version:message-id:date:subject:cc:to:from:user-agent
 :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=ziMj1hBRpYvXgG3S5Sp34JM3TQCcn1VpjAu/2FepPYQ=;
 b=JbVe+Y6p6qvPsw4K+rtKj3bHobL6zTzNqS0uBYtvemnClsaqvH0LXafaHz2qahusgF
 6kSTgdN7LcEPCG7x+bYf1oWhq7ISH1Hzcga+2ilWn6E5+UljL8lWQPFPwOlrVpFukopb
 E18OExlenZ9dCmaAMFBPTJk9vStIqWaHryYziElFOeT3tam2sIjnmpV9lBlBNoMosZXl
 NSLPwbAomAoRp29uSxBK5d9IbpGn/fZ0mIYT4XvUVnYT1RxX+AmF80RnZpL5oJKxItbT
 RSmJ5AH4lFm+VEsZ5LIS2EQsk2aqjs58FahX5YnqHokp4SJDU2/tyR2JxTRhSdiGX24z
 DqfQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDz6JFyUW1pwQMbxpVCaHRi1qNDvk9GS+n7U4EeoN5Zt+KUV+C5t
 WIYYwElrNFAtqwZ1k+dplAA=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ5wcgZU1yys2DAnEqD7Ddk12WkPV9l6Af/3jM9p9/i71HEHEwaIgPMmKaF4j5y6h8k1eQ5GGw==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:da85:b0:1ac:a887:d344 with SMTP id
 j5-20020a170902da8500b001aca887d344mr39329499plx.19.1684345477779; 
 Wed, 17 May 2023 10:44:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (aipl-9-69-179-202.ankhnet.net. [202.179.69.9])
 by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id
 n18-20020a170902d2d200b001aaeba5ce0fsm17884426plc.68.2023.05.17.10.44.36
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
 Wed, 17 May 2023 10:44:37 -0700 (PDT)
User-agent: mu4e 1.10.3; emacs 29.0.91
From: Payas Relekar <relekarpayas@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 21:10:15 +0530
Message-ID: <87jzx7yn0p.fsf@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

>> From: Payas Relekar <relekarpayas@HIDDEN>
>> Cc: Andrew Goh <andrewgoh95@HIDDEN>,  63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 19:34:06 +0530
>>
>> The idea itself is valid, as long as the update check happens only at
>> explicit user action. The command should only compare current version of
>> Emacs with the latest update and inform user about the difference. Then
>> the onus is on user to proceed with the update. Command output can point
>> them to relevant section of the manual, informing of ways to install
>> (and also update) Emacs.
>
> How will we know where to look?  That's the main technical issue with
> this, I think.
>
> Another possible issue is whether just to tell the user "A newer
> version XY.Z is available, you can download it at <URL>", or also
> offer a possibility of actually downloading the newer version?

The former is preferred. Emacs users more often than not use third party
mechanisms (e.g. package managers) to get it installed. Any action for
actually downloading would muddy the waters. Here's the flow that I
imagine:

1. User runs `M-x emacs-check-update`
2. Emacs checks GNU repo and provides somthing like:
   `Update for Emacs 29.1 is now available. Current version is 28.2.

   If you installed Emacs via a package manager like your GNU/linux
   distribution, homebrew, Guix etc, please follow their respective
   instructions.

   If you installed Emacs by compiling from source, follow _link to
   latest Emacs compilation instructions_.

   If you'd like to check for updates for Emacs-Lisp packages, please
   check 'package-upgrade'`
3. User chooses to follow or ignore the instructions.

The wording would play big part, but as long as we make it clear to
follow the path of original installation is preferred, I think most
users can figure it out, just like the rest of the manual.

At any point, Emacs providing built-in mechanism for update, while nice
to have, will be gigantic pain to implement and even bigger pain to
maintain. Something like rustup is well-desired, but Emacs has very
broad scope and dependency tree unlike rust toolchain, so I'd rather
avoid it.
--

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#63536: Feature Request
References: <1553770628.2069339.1684237196253@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <1553770628.2069339.1684237196253@HIDDEN>
Resent-From: Payas Relekar <relekarpayas@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 17:48:01 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.63536.B63536.168434563812497 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 63536
X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs
X-GNU-PR-Keywords: 
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Cc: 63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, andrewgoh95@HIDDEN
Received: via spool by 63536-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B63536.168434563812497
          (code B ref 63536); Wed, 17 May 2023 17:48:01 +0000
Received: (at 63536) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 May 2023 17:47:18 +0000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50980 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1pzLF8-0003FV-EE
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 May 2023 13:47:18 -0400
Received: from mail-pf1-f177.google.com ([209.85.210.177]:51576)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <relekarpayas@HIDDEN>) id 1pzLF7-0003FG-BG
 for 63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 May 2023 13:47:17 -0400
Received: by mail-pf1-f177.google.com with SMTP id
 d2e1a72fcca58-644d9bf05b7so824270b3a.3
 for <63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 17 May 2023 10:47:17 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1684345631; x=1686937631;
 h=mime-version:message-id:date:subject:cc:to:from:user-agent:from:to
 :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=Rwu4XeoUtm9qdCjCN+iZvAVvAQXQ6BosjE/APGJePC4=;
 b=jSPYPSAOWxhYYkzE3MVuHkgihGoMno3BTTWSM6/rVmYYXWNehjUHr8CNREcV2f1U8V
 LMx4SU6yQM1OQYHs5h/TKHvLMMXMkR3t1aldJh21WIeFNlBbzV+Ily6QKyu0v6q4AugH
 bgySpj5JKfMdxcm6/8xKkKqjNPiE+tPPICs6aOpdSJPte/+j+XqLzOEXqpWM97Q/+ldk
 lZA856RzCkvODJr2JipaQAadtnYMi0OVY0G3CisVa7C5RXGe4Pfe2CHbjr1N/lz5wUyH
 Mr65rr6kqOH3TkMHjOrvf/YyKbBzgWbeLZoZBvfQb/KSMtE937WNZcXrqigwIOZmXdTG
 hMyg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1684345631; x=1686937631;
 h=mime-version:message-id:date:subject:cc:to:from:user-agent
 :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=Rwu4XeoUtm9qdCjCN+iZvAVvAQXQ6BosjE/APGJePC4=;
 b=HnXNnHG5gWM6eE77ZXj11s7ACKcbaaKzKVcoSmA6k4IMgm3ofyhOvqIbEyZELn4RzB
 oKCNoC3TzL38TTmDodsNmtsCSi6cAHueeVmlcjwJOXgMIxvavw+/b+BaHJxzL2Lo3u+N
 ZV/tZGBJD/X/atPuOxKlKSa0dZG+zxdDquL9fSmFWD8RlQdLnVH43NdtxIGvJYiJl92v
 DbWSjxo9vrwbp3iEaloNr/UbkiXLcOC5etKG0b9nmpqrCXYRkkAM1r/5nOXyo3i/EvGS
 HFn+71Pz8vQlv4HfPZc10lOiG3jdKmUyHDQYxVk6VD45hoTJ6yFLH19bnHNGtDUaUQHS
 FLaA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDxQ4PWEemqUtMHQ2VqEUYPcHWyOsiu16BIRLZnrjW2Y2g6FsMDf
 CymmnmD6hfslPt0OGKmhHGw=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ6aHp5Xb9NPIWH810UV4/WJjZWeksFJthLeyGN6x2BA0oA8jQC9aAjGtb1VCTQN6GJgXB5gMg==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a20:6a0c:b0:106:70af:a5ca with SMTP id
 p12-20020a056a206a0c00b0010670afa5camr12777630pzk.38.1684345631152; 
 Wed, 17 May 2023 10:47:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (aipl-9-69-179-202.ankhnet.net. [202.179.69.9])
 by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id
 g30-20020a63201e000000b0052858b41008sm15635364pgg.87.2023.05.17.10.47.10
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
 Wed, 17 May 2023 10:47:10 -0700 (PDT)
User-agent: mu4e 1.10.3; emacs 29.0.91
From: Payas Relekar <relekarpayas@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 21:21:48 +0530
Message-ID: <87fs7vymw2.fsf@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

>> From: Payas Relekar <relekarpayas@HIDDEN>
>> Cc: Andrew Goh <andrewgoh95@HIDDEN>,  63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 19:34:06 +0530
>>
>> The idea itself is valid, as long as the update check happens only at
>> explicit user action. The command should only compare current version of
>> Emacs with the latest update and inform user about the difference. Then
>> the onus is on user to proceed with the update. Command output can point
>> them to relevant section of the manual, informing of ways to install
>> (and also update) Emacs.
>
> How will we know where to look?  That's the main technical issue with
> this, I think.
>

Sorry, I missed this in previous mail. Where do we look? GNU Emacs
stable release URL, of course. As long as the latest version available
upstream (FTP or the git branch directly) is higher than user's version,
we are good to report.

If the users see their package manager does not have the latest version,
that's a good motivation for reporting it there. But the wording should
be clear for the same.

--

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#63536: Feature Request
Resent-From: Benjamin Riefenstahl <b.riefenstahl@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Fri, 19 May 2023 13:37:01 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.63536.B63536.16845033803930 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 63536
X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs
X-GNU-PR-Keywords: 
To: 63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Received: via spool by 63536-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B63536.16845033803930
          (code B ref 63536); Fri, 19 May 2023 13:37:01 +0000
Received: (at 63536) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 May 2023 13:36:20 +0000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55707 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1q00HL-00011K-Sw
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 May 2023 09:36:20 -0400
Received: from odoacer.turtle-trading.net ([93.241.193.16]:47431)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <benny@HIDDEN>) id 1q00HJ-000115-OF
 for 63536 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 May 2023 09:36:18 -0400
Received: from zenobia.turtle-trading.net ([192.168.2.111])
 by odoacer.turtle-trading.net with esmtp (Exim 4.80)
 (envelope-from <benny@HIDDEN>)
 id 1q00HD-0004pi-54; Fri, 19 May 2023 15:36:11 +0200
Received: from benny by zenobia.turtle-trading.net with local (Exim 4.94.2)
 (envelope-from <benny@HIDDEN>)
 id 1q00HC-000X21-TX; Fri, 19 May 2023 15:36:10 +0200
From: Benjamin Riefenstahl <b.riefenstahl@HIDDEN>
References: <1553770628.2069339.1684237196253.ref@HIDDEN>
 <1553770628.2069339.1684237196253@HIDDEN>
 <83sfbwz3cp.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <2050007547.2204916.1684290974957@HIDDEN>
 <83y1lnxlzo.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <1884442844.2472195.1684329429592@HIDDEN>
 <83bkijxenf.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Fri, 19 May 2023 15:36:10 +0200
In-Reply-To: <83bkijxenf.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 17 May
 2023 16:37:24 +0300")
Message-ID: <87sfbs5tpx.fsf@HIDDEN>
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2.50 (gnu/linux)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

Hi Eli,

Eli Zaretskii writes:
> So you want a command to check whether a newer Emacs is available?
> But where should this command look?  Many (most?) people install
> precompiled binaries prepared by their distros, and I assume those
> distros have their "check for updates" service or something?
>
> We could check on the GNU FTP site, but how many users will want to
> download and build Emacs from sources?
>
> What do other people think about this?

Since you asked for it ;-):

I dislike it when programs annoy me with dialog boxes like that at
startup.  I start a program because I want to do something that uses it,
not to maintain the program.

I use Debian and I like working with its package management.  It is
especially bad when programs tell me they have a new version, but the
package manager doesn't actually have it.

I also do not always want the latest version of any program in the first
place, as long as the current version still does what I want.

Regards, benny

Message received at control <at> debbugs.gnu.org:

Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2023 20:13:32 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 06 16:13:32 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37786 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1qdyu3-000179-VO
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2023 16:13:32 -0400
Received: from mail-lf1-x129.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::129]:54479)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1qdyu2-00016v-9A
 for control <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2023 16:13:30 -0400
Received: by mail-lf1-x129.google.com with SMTP id
 2adb3069b0e04-5009d4a4897so303567e87.0
 for <control <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 06 Sep 2023 13:13:28 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1694031203; x=1694636003; darn=debbugs.gnu.org;
 h=to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:from:from:to:cc:subject
 :date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=f/MFAVtHqGSAx+ZSmi0EUyIyWC5y9Lg59wbmQmObn9U=;
 b=jlOV7XKpqqZgNaPSZ4uJHR/KxiIWJw/jjamn6nghLgjT2OkGrv0PRnwHjoXDR4pRb0
 VAbMXVg8RmxHwRqzdvXlywPkdDAJ8AK2NH375X9yBg09/LWbiQe6LImv/VVyOJn5CeCR
 XH4zKgqmjU2c9O/r9qdboa9gaJiujVPkWqw3ze2pZTaRAA4nmxVoz0R1M9yVgK5tFbUT
 JJIJmm/yWa9Izt6EMb6EdD7YIc3kc5JOve2OviajdFJFlyNvcn7pZuMXk5jFST7JrCR8
 OP45Joh629ARgyIZNa/R+5dpqH1AFgTPuUMwZWmX91BO8UL2k+Nf81phRYrfuoentcjh
 XdvQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1694031203; x=1694636003;
 h=to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:from:x-gm-message-state
 :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=f/MFAVtHqGSAx+ZSmi0EUyIyWC5y9Lg59wbmQmObn9U=;
 b=FX9QMYUVZS7dWa2yI2VaU50RTBXKGhxe/QSVakSSn91JuLEoOPNbwcKL4Z4kK7qsQr
 Wu4P/nLd5Z1TdaGrXTcfO+zh9smh8HqQld53/1jbilVHr/yKiNuVD8h8L/Z9hJ9mYKZj
 Vq7+0negdmVwb1tG/KpQpQW/oB3cFWJIGUj4m9Ek4PDg9Bqp3PNoRlmsdZRPmpBikkaM
 S3YMfrqZiq0KCNWQ6sBrfV4KJEmX5Nyl2GBJPW8oXnC1CENOY9QR02O6R1MSLizO7ckp
 N//2G536UJXXhE9/593ijcY7YaMww0+frFDEhugJ3gEw29xT0+/d8V7bNKFXxTnPoWf8
 yvOw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx5oGEDdvzaCtXKibZWDcCMNwDhUs6GuBOaKTTWkdSAOex1oPub
 hVq1mobNjdd6RWcHLh5UaWLEaSDSLpEhfJuvxyojaX+r4og=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFidHWGPJHlf0FIMr8XibQ4lSp0smkk2yVCPmgIWTridGfYxG+efdXl5hn59bQJDTohMJXVQyoDDGKa0wTlKJA=
X-Received: by 2002:a19:4342:0:b0:500:79a9:d714 with SMTP id
 m2-20020a194342000000b0050079a9d714mr2660638lfj.65.1694031202938; Wed, 06 Sep
 2023 13:13:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with
 HTTPREST; Wed, 6 Sep 2023 13:13:22 -0700
From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 13:13:22 -0700
Message-ID: <CADwFkmkUgddqf-r=X4JkeH8mRVbfwvFw6jLLrZf5SvC_ACf-qQ@HIDDEN>
Subject: control message for bug #63536
To: control <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

retitle 63536 Function to update Emacs itself (for example 29.1 to 29.2)
quit

Last modified: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 20:15:01 UTC

GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.