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Subject: bug#69997: Should =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=98guix?= import =?UTF-8?Q?pypi=E2=80=99?= get dependencies from pyproject files?
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 Content preview:  Hello Python team! Should =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=98guix?= import =?UTF-8?Q?pypi=E2=80=99?= attempt to
    get dependency information from =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=98pyproject.toml=E2=80=99,?= in addition to =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=98requirements.txt=E2=80=99?=
    and wheel =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=98METADATA=E2=80=99?= as it already does? It might be more complicated
    than =?UTF-8?Q?we=E2=80=99d?= like: in some cases, that file seems to be used as a =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9Ctrampoline=E2=80=9D?=
    to Poetry. For instance, in python-pypugjs, the =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=98requires=E2=80=99?= bit delegates
    everything t [...] 

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 Content preview:  Hello Python team! Should =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=98guix?= import =?UTF-8?Q?pypi=E2=80=99?= attempt to
    get dependency information from =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=98pyproject.toml=E2=80=99,?= in addition to =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=98requirements.txt=E2=80=99?=
    and wheel =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=98METADATA=E2=80=99?= as it already does? It might be more complicated
    than =?UTF-8?Q?we=E2=80=99d?= like: in some cases, that file seems to be used as a =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9Ctrampoline=E2=80=9D?=
    to Poetry. For instance, in python-pypugjs, the =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=98requires=E2=80=99?= bit delegates
    everything t [...] 

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Hello Python team!

Should =E2=80=98guix import pypi=E2=80=99 attempt to get dependency informa=
tion from
=E2=80=98pyproject.toml=E2=80=99, in addition to =E2=80=98requirements.txt=
=E2=80=99 and wheel =E2=80=98METADATA=E2=80=99
as it already does?

It might be more complicated than we=E2=80=99d like: in some cases, that fi=
le
seems to be used as a =E2=80=9Ctrampoline=E2=80=9D to Poetry.  For instance=
, in
python-pypugjs, the =E2=80=98requires=E2=80=99 bit delegates everything to =
Poetry:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
[tool.poetry]
name =3D "pypugjs"
version =3D "5.9.4"
description =3D ""
authors =3D ["Andy Grabow <andy@HIDDEN>"]
license =3D "MIT"

[tool.poetry.dependencies]
python =3D "^3.8"
Jinja2 =3D "^3.1.1"
Mako =3D "^1.1.3"
tornado =3D "^6.0.4"
six =3D "^1.15.0"
coverage =3D "^6.3.2"
nose =3D "^1.3.7"
Flask =3D "^2.1.1"
charset-normalizer =3D "^2.1.0"
flake8 =3D "^4.0.1"

[tool.poetry.dev-dependencies]

[build-system]
requires =3D ["poetry-core>=3D1.0.0"]
build-backend =3D "poetry.core.masonry.api"
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Thoughts?

Ludo=E2=80=99.

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From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludovic.courtes@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#69997: Acknowledgement (Should =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=98guix?=
 import =?UTF-8?Q?pypi=E2=80=99?= get dependencies from pyproject files?)
Message-ID: <handler.69997.B.171138335127146.ack <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 16:16:05 +0000

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69997: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D69997
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Subject: bug#69997: Should =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=98guix?= import =?UTF-8?Q?pypi=E2=80=99?= get dependencies from pyproject files?
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--0000000000007333630614812ec6
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Hi Lido!

> Should =E2=80=98guix import pypi=E2=80=99 attempt to get dependency
> information fromn=E2=80=98pyproject.toml=E2=80=99, in addition to
> =E2=80=98requirements.txt=E2=80=99 and wheel =E2=80=98METADATA=E2=80=99 a=
s it already does?

It's quite a common practice in modern Python just to include
 pyproject.toml, that fact makes importing long chains problematic.

It would be nice to have common yaml/toml parser for that task.

Oleg

--0000000000007333630614812ec6
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<div dir=3D"auto">Hi Lido!<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><di=
v dir=3D"auto">&gt; Should =E2=80=98guix import pypi=E2=80=99 attempt to ge=
t dependency=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">&gt; information fromn=E2=80=98py=
project.toml=E2=80=99, in addition to=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">&gt; =E2=
=80=98requirements.txt=E2=80=99 and wheel =E2=80=98METADATA=E2=80=99 as it =
already does?</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">It&#39;s q=
uite a common practice in modern Python just to include</div><div dir=3D"au=
to">=C2=A0pyproject.toml, that fact makes importing long chains problematic=
.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">It would be nice to ha=
ve common yaml/toml parser for that task.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"auto">Oleg</div></div></div>

--0000000000007333630614812ec6--

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Subject: bug#69997: Should =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=98guix?= import =?UTF-8?Q?pypi=E2=80=99?= get dependencies from pyproject files?
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From: Tanguy LE CARROUR <tanguy@HIDDEN>
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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 08:54:17 +0100
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Hi Ludo=E2=80=99,

Quoting Ludovic Court=C3=A8s (2024-03-25 12:06:51)
> Should =E2=80=98guix import pypi=E2=80=99 attempt to get dependency infor=
mation from
> =E2=80=98pyproject.toml=E2=80=99, in addition to =E2=80=98requirements.tx=
t=E2=80=99 and wheel =E2=80=98METADATA=E2=80=99
> as it already does?
>=20
> It might be more complicated than we=E2=80=99d like: in some cases, that =
file
> seems to be used as a =E2=80=9Ctrampoline=E2=80=9D to Poetry.  For instan=
ce, in
> python-pypugjs, the =E2=80=98requires=E2=80=99 bit delegates everything t=
o Poetry:

Short answer: no! =F0=9F=98=81

I=E2=80=99m pretty sure you know everything that I=E2=80=99m about to write=
, but better
say it out loud=E2=80=A6

For a "standard modern" project managed with Poetry, the Python source
package contains `PKG-INFO` and `pyproject.toml ` that both contain
the run time dependencies. The wheel package only contains `METADATA` that
lists the dependencies. The source only contains a `pyproject.toml`.
To make the installed package as small as possible, tests files and
uncompiled assets are not (should not be) included.
From a Guix stand point, it=E2=80=99s better to build from source to be abl=
e to
run the test suite.

For the `python-pypugjs` you used as an example, we build from source,
so I guess the question does not arise. If we were to use the packages
available on PyPI, what I said above is *NOT* confirmed =F0=9F=98=B1:
- wheel (`.whl`) only contains `METADATA` with the dependencies; **BUT**
- source (`.tar.gz`) contains `PKG-INFO` (without dependency information),
  `pyproject.toml` (with dep=E2=80=99) and `setup.py` (also with dep=E2=80=
=99).

=E2=80=A6 "fun" fact, the information in `pyproject.toml` are **NOT** the s=
ame as
the one in `setup.py`!? =F0=9F=A4=AF `pyproject.toml` says that `nose` is a=
 run time
dependency (which it is not), but `setup.py` properly lists it in `tests_re=
quire`.

So, my answer would be: do not import from PyPI! Yes, I know, it=E2=80=99s =
radical! =F0=9F=98=85
But if you have to, rely on the wheel=E2=80=99s `METADATA` file.

I hope this make sense. =E2=80=A6 I=E2=80=99m not really sure any more! =F0=
=9F=98=85

Regards,

--=20
Tanguy

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Hello!

Tanguy LE CARROUR <tanguy@HIDDEN> skribis:

> I=E2=80=99m pretty sure you know everything that I=E2=80=99m about to wri=
te, but better
> say it out loud=E2=80=A6

Nope, I know nothing (I=E2=80=99ve just been told about using =E2=80=98pypr=
oject.toml=E2=80=99
and it seemed to kinda make sense. :-))

> For a "standard modern" project managed with Poetry, the Python source
> package contains `PKG-INFO` and `pyproject.toml ` that both contain
> the run time dependencies. The wheel package only contains `METADATA` that
> lists the dependencies. The source only contains a `pyproject.toml`.
> To make the installed package as small as possible, tests files and
> uncompiled assets are not (should not be) included.
> From a Guix stand point, it=E2=80=99s better to build from source to be a=
ble to
> run the test suite.
>
> For the `python-pypugjs` you used as an example, we build from source,
> so I guess the question does not arise. If we were to use the packages
> available on PyPI, what I said above is *NOT* confirmed =F0=9F=98=B1:
> - wheel (`.whl`) only contains `METADATA` with the dependencies; **BUT**
> - source (`.tar.gz`) contains `PKG-INFO` (without dependency information),
>   `pyproject.toml` (with dep=E2=80=99) and `setup.py` (also with dep=E2=
=80=99).
>
> =E2=80=A6 "fun" fact, the information in `pyproject.toml` are **NOT** the=
 same as
> the one in `setup.py`!? =F0=9F=A4=AF `pyproject.toml` says that `nose` is=
 a run time
> dependency (which it is not), but `setup.py` properly lists it in `tests_=
require`.

Oh my, such a mess.

> So, my answer would be: do not import from PyPI! Yes, I know, it=E2=80=99=
s radical! =F0=9F=98=85
> But if you have to, rely on the wheel=E2=80=99s `METADATA` file.
>
> I hope this make sense. =E2=80=A6 I=E2=80=99m not really sure any more! =
=F0=9F=98=85

It does!

But then I mean, we could offer, say, =E2=80=98guix import upstream https:/=
/=E2=80=A6=E2=80=99,
and that thing could parse =E2=80=98setup.py=E2=80=99 or similar to produce=
 a package
definition from that.  Maybe that=E2=80=99s what you had in mind: import
straight from upstream rather than via PyPI?

Thanks,
Ludo=E2=80=99.

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Hi,


Quoting Ludovic Court=C3=A8s (2024-03-26 17:04:52)
> Tanguy LE CARROUR <tanguy@HIDDEN> skribis:
> > So, my answer would be: do not import from PyPI! Yes, I know, it=E2=80=
=99s radical! =F0=9F=98=85
> > But if you have to, rely on the wheel=E2=80=99s `METADATA` file.
> >
> > I hope this make sense. =E2=80=A6 I=E2=80=99m not really sure any more!=
 =F0=9F=98=85
>=20
> It does!
>=20
> But then I mean, we could offer, say, =E2=80=98guix import upstream https=
://=E2=80=A6=E2=80=99,
> and that thing could parse =E2=80=98setup.py=E2=80=99 or similar to produ=
ce a package
> definition from that.

I=E2=80=99m not against a good-old-generic-solution=C2=AE, but this one mig=
ht be
a bit=E2=80=A6 too generic. It contains no mention to Python, so the next l=
ogical step
would be `guix import URL`. Not that I would not like it, though! =F0=9F=98=
=81

So I would say=E2=80=A6 let=E2=80=99s wait and see what the others think. I=
n the
meantime, I=E2=80=99ll have to dive deeper in the PEP and the actual import=
er
code.


> Maybe that=E2=80=99s what you had in mind: import straight from upstream =
rather than via PyPI?

I actually had nothing in mind! I blacked out after sending this email.
Too many emotions at once, I guess! I had no clue it was such a mess. =F0=
=9F=98=85

--=20
Tanguy

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Hi,

Quoting Tanguy LE CARROUR (2024-03-26 17:55:23)
> Quoting Ludovic Court=C3=A8s (2024-03-26 17:04:52)
> > Tanguy LE CARROUR <tanguy@HIDDEN> skribis:
> > > So, my answer would be: do not import from PyPI! Yes, I know, it=E2=
=80=99s radical! =F0=9F=98=85
> > > But if you have to, rely on the wheel=E2=80=99s `METADATA` file.
> > >
> > > I hope this make sense. =E2=80=A6 I=E2=80=99m not really sure any mor=
e! =F0=9F=98=85
> >=20
> > It does!
> >=20
> > But then I mean, we could offer, say, =E2=80=98guix import upstream htt=
ps://=E2=80=A6=E2=80=99,
> > and that thing could parse =E2=80=98setup.py=E2=80=99 or similar to pro=
duce a package
> > definition from that.
> [=E2=80=A6]
> So I would say=E2=80=A6 let=E2=80=99s wait and see what the others think.=
 In the
> meantime, I=E2=80=99ll have to dive deeper in the PEP and the actual impo=
rter
> code.

According to PEP 427 [1] a.k.a. Binary distribution format [2], if you
go for packaged/PyPI then we should go for `METADATA`.

[1]: https://peps.python.org/pep-0427/
[2]: https://packaging.python.org/en/latest/specifications/binary-distribut=
ion-format/#the-dist-info-directory

But, as stated earlier, we should build from source, to make sure we can
run the test suite. Active projects should slowly migrate to PEP 517 [3]
`pyproject.toml`. But, this is not a solution! =F0=9F=98=B1 This is actuall=
y yet
another problem! =F0=9F=98=B5

[3]: https://peps.python.org/pep-0517/

Each build system relies on it=E2=80=99s own file organization. For instanc=
e, Poetry
looks for a `[tool.poetry.dependencies]` section in the file. So the
importer should be "build system aware", which leads us to=E2=80=A6 `guix i=
mport poetry URL`!?
Not really generic any more! =F0=9F=98=9E

I guess we should sleep on it=E2=80=A6

--=20
Tanguy

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Hey Ludo,

> Should ‘guix import pypi’ attempt to get dependency information from
> ‘pyproject.toml’, in addition to ‘requirements.txt’ and wheel ‘METADATA’
> as it already does?

yes it should. It’s the next logical step after having a
pyproject-build-system. The python-team branch (not sure whether Ricardo
had time to merge it yet) adds a TOML parser to Guix as a first step.

> It might be more complicated than we’d like: in some cases, that file
> seems to be used as a “trampoline” to Poetry.  For instance, in
> python-pypugjs, the ‘requires’ bit delegates everything to Poetry:

The file is always a trampoline to other build systems, like setuptools
or poetry. That’s (unfortunately) by design, see the [build-system]
section.

> [tool.poetry.dependencies]
> python = "^3.8"
> Jinja2 = "^3.1.1"
> Mako = "^1.1.3"
> tornado = "^6.0.4"
> six = "^1.15.0"
> coverage = "^6.3.2"
> nose = "^1.3.7"
> Flask = "^2.1.1"
> charset-normalizer = "^2.1.0"
> flake8 = "^4.0.1"

That’s unfortunate, because the
specification includes a common field for dependencies:
https://packaging.python.org/en/latest/specifications/pyproject-toml/#dependencies-optional-dependencies
I guess we’ll have to deal with these idiosyncracies as well :(

Lars

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Hi,

Tanguy LE CARROUR <tanguy@HIDDEN> skribis:

> Quoting Ludovic Court=C3=A8s (2024-03-26 17:04:52)

[...]

>> But then I mean, we could offer, say, =E2=80=98guix import upstream http=
s://=E2=80=A6=E2=80=99,
>> and that thing could parse =E2=80=98setup.py=E2=80=99 or similar to prod=
uce a package
>> definition from that.
>
> I=E2=80=99m not against a good-old-generic-solution=C2=AE, but this one m=
ight be
> a bit=E2=80=A6 too generic. It contains no mention to Python, so the next=
 logical step
> would be `guix import URL`. Not that I would not like it, though! =F0=9F=
=98=81

Well, this has been on my mind for a long time.  Such a tool could
provide at least a useful package skeleton even for software using CMake
or Autotools.

> So I would say=E2=80=A6 let=E2=80=99s wait and see what the others think.=
 In the
> meantime, I=E2=80=99ll have to dive deeper in the PEP and the actual impo=
rter
> code.

Looks like consensus among you Pythonistas has yet to be reached
regarding whether =E2=80=98pyproject.toml=E2=80=99 data would be a useful a=
ddition.  :-)

We=E2=80=99ll see!

Ludo=E2=80=99.

PS: I hear more and more long-time Python developers dismayed by the sad
    state of packaging and code evolution in Python.  In Guile land, we
    say: refugees welcome!  Come discover a great language and a great
    community (together with their own set of problems).

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