GNU logs - #73736, boring messages

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Subject: bug#73736: 31.0.50; project and therefore eglot don't work without git
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(I don't use project directly, but eglot requires it, and that's
all I care about.)

1. cargo new foo
2. emacs -Q foo/src/main.rs
3. M-x rust-ts-mode RET
4. M-x eglot RET

Expected:
eglot activates.

Actual:
Error:
[eglot] Server reports (type=1): Failed to discover workspace.
Consider adding the `Cargo.toml` of the workspace to the [`linkedProjects`](https://rust-analyzer.github.io/manual.html#rust-analyzer.linkedProjects) setting.

I think the problem here is that eglot needs to provide a project
root to rust-analyzer, but 'project' only knows how to find .git
directories, which I don't have in this case.

This works in editors such as JetBrains Rover and VS Code
presumably because you have to take an "Open project" step in
those.  And I'd be OK if I had to that first in emacs, but I
could find no such option.

The closest I can find is 'project-switch-project', but it
doesn't accept arbitrary directories as input, instead only
allowing me to pick from a list it found on its own, by
scrounging around for .git directories!


In GNU Emacs 31.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, cairo version
 1.18.2) of 2024-10-04 built on dogato
Repository revision: ef587bf6b46b2ea3ef91b260ac2542666081260d
Repository branch: master
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12101012
System Description: openSUSE Tumbleweed

Configured using:
 'configure -C --prefix=/opt/emacs-master --disable-silent-rules
 --with-x-toolkit=no --without-gsettings --with-native-compilation=no'

Configured features:
ACL CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS HARFBUZZ JPEG LCMS2
LIBSELINUX LIBXML2 MODULES NOTIFY INOTIFY OLDXMENU PDUMPER PNG RSVG
SECCOMP SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TREE_SITTER WEBP X11 XDBE XIM XINPUT2
XPM ZLIB

Important settings:
  value of $LC_CTYPE: en_US.UTF-8
  value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=local
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: Lisp Interaction

Minor modes in effect:
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  eldoc-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
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Load-path shadows:
None found.

Features:
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hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify lcms2
dynamic-setting font-render-setting cairo xinput2 x multi-tty
move-toolbar make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 39589 10289) (symbols 48 5375 0) (strings 32 12072 1444)
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 (vector-slots 8 103508 8407) (floats 8 25 4) (intervals 56 260 0)
 (buffers 992 10))

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To: Eric Gillespie <epg@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#73736: Acknowledgement (31.0.50; project and therefore eglot
 don't work without git)
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Subject: bug#73736: 31.0.50; project and therefore eglot don't work without git
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Hi!

On 10/10/2024 19:44, Eric Gillespie wrote:
> I think the problem here is that eglot needs to provide a project
> root to rust-analyzer, but 'project' only knows how to find .git
> directories, which I don't have in this case.

This isn't very plug-and-play, but you can customize 
project-vc-extra-root-markers to include any other files that 
distinguish the root of a project. For example, Cargo.toml.

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Subject: bug#73736: 31.0.50; project and therefore eglot don't work without git
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On 10/10/2024 11:42 AM, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
> This isn't very plug-and-play, but you can customize 
> project-vc-extra-root-markers to include any other files that 
> distinguish the root of a project. For example, Cargo.toml.

I wonder, could major modes provide project.el with some default values 
for that option? Then rust-mode could add Cargo.toml, python-mode could 
add pyproject.toml, and so on.

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On 10/10/2024 21:52, Jim Porter wrote:
> On 10/10/2024 11:42 AM, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
>> This isn't very plug-and-play, but you can customize project-vc-extra- 
>> root-markers to include any other files that distinguish the root of a 
>> project. For example, Cargo.toml.
> 
> I wonder, could major modes provide project.el with some default values 
> for that option? Then rust-mode could add Cargo.toml, python-mode could 
> add pyproject.toml, and so on.

That's a natural question, but it would result in different results for 
"current project" for files in the same directory (which often enough 
use different major modes).

What we could have, it a variable which is added to globally in package 
autoloads - so if e.g. rust-mode is installed it could add Cargo to root 
markers. For rust-ts-mode we'd need to do that in the core, but then 
we'd also need a way to override I guess, because in some projects that 
still wouldn't be "root"...

Speaking of JetBrains and VS Code's "Open project" method, we could have 
such as well - it would be a separate command or two ("open" and 
"close", maybe).

If it's just for Eglot, though, maybe ideally it would have a separate 
detector for directories in which to run the language server in - it 
doesn't have to correspond to what the user considers to be the entire 
project's root (they might prefer it to be a parent directory). Not sure 
how automatic it can be in the general case, though, and it'd require 
Eglot to know about root markers for all supported languages.

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From: Joost Kremers <joostkremers@HIDDEN>
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On Fri, Oct 11 2024, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
> On 10/10/2024 21:52, Jim Porter wrote:
>> On 10/10/2024 11:42 AM, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
>>> This isn't very plug-and-play, but you can customize project-vc-extra-
>>> root-markers to include any other files that distinguish the root of a
>>> project. For example, Cargo.toml.
>> I wonder, could major modes provide project.el with some default values
>> for that option? Then rust-mode could add Cargo.toml, python-mode could
>> add pyproject.toml, and so on.
>
> That's a natural question, but it would result in different results for
> "current project" for files in the same directory (which often enough use
> different major modes).

What about a single marker that works for any project? This is a
work-around that Projectile uses and I'm using it with project.el as well,
with: 

```
(add-to-list 'project-vc-extra-root-markers ".project")
```

-- 
Joost Kremers
Life has its moments

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On 11/10/2024 11:53, Joost Kremers wrote:
>> That's a natural question, but it would result in different results for
>> "current project" for files in the same directory (which often enough use
>> different major modes).
> What about a single marker that works for any project? This is a
> work-around that Projectile uses and I'm using it with project.el as well,
> with:
> 
> ```
> (add-to-list 'project-vc-extra-root-markers ".project")
> ```

That's the recommended course of action if you don't have other 
consistent indicators of project root, between your projects.

I'm not a fan of adding a file that has no other purposes, but if people 
find this useful, no problem. For personal projects it certainly 
shouldn't hurt.

Eric, Jim, how would you like this resolution?

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I assume you're not suggesting adding ".project" to everyone's Emacs
default configurations. It's a user option already (which I do use).

On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 1:14=E2=80=AFPM Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> wro=
te:

> On 11/10/2024 11:53, Joost Kremers wrote:
> >> That's a natural question, but it would result in different results fo=
r
> >> "current project" for files in the same directory (which often enough
> use
> >> different major modes).
> > What about a single marker that works for any project? This is a
> > work-around that Projectile uses and I'm using it with project.el as
> well,
> > with:
> >
> > ```
> > (add-to-list 'project-vc-extra-root-markers ".project")
> > ```
>
> That's the recommended course of action if you don't have other
> consistent indicators of project root, between your projects.
>
> I'm not a fan of adding a file that has no other purposes, but if people
> find this useful, no problem. For personal projects it certainly
> shouldn't hurt.
>
> Eric, Jim, how would you like this resolution?
>
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospac=
e">I assume you&#39;re not suggesting adding &quot;.project&quot; to everyo=
ne&#39;s Emacs default configurations. It&#39;s a user option already (whic=
h I do use).</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" cla=
ss=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 1:14=E2=80=AFPM Dmitry Gutov &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:dmitry@HIDDEN">dmitry@HIDDEN</a>&gt; wrote:<br></di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On 11/10/2024 11:53, Jo=
ost Kremers wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; That&#39;s a natural question, but it would result in different re=
sults for<br>
&gt;&gt; &quot;current project&quot; for files in the same directory (which=
 often enough use<br>
&gt;&gt; different major modes).<br>
&gt; What about a single marker that works for any project? This is a<br>
&gt; work-around that Projectile uses and I&#39;m using it with project.el =
as well,<br>
&gt; with:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; ```<br>
&gt; (add-to-list &#39;project-vc-extra-root-markers &quot;.project&quot;)<=
br>
&gt; ```<br>
<br>
That&#39;s the recommended course of action if you don&#39;t have other <br=
>
consistent indicators of project root, between your projects.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m not a fan of adding a file that has no other purposes, but if peopl=
e <br>
find this useful, no problem. For personal projects it certainly <br>
shouldn&#39;t hurt.<br>
<br>
Eric, Jim, how would you like this resolution?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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On Fri, Oct 11, 2024, at 7:40 PM, Ship Mints wrote:
> I assume you're not suggesting adding ".project" to everyone's Emacs default configurations. It's a user option already (which I do use).
I am - if it helps avoid this recurring question.
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<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type="text/css">p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div>On Fri, Oct 11, 2024, at 7:40 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt" style=""><div dir="ltr"><div class="qt-gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace;">I assume you're not suggesting adding ".project" to everyone's Emacs default configurations. It's a user option already (which I do use).<br></div></div></blockquote><div>I am - if it helps avoid this recurring question.</div></body></html>
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On 10/10/2024 2:59 PM, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
> If it's just for Eglot, though, maybe ideally it would have a separate 
> detector for directories in which to run the language server in - it 
> doesn't have to correspond to what the user considers to be the entire 
> project's root (they might prefer it to be a parent directory). Not sure 
> how automatic it can be in the general case, though, and it'd require 
> Eglot to know about root markers for all supported languages.

Yeah, that raises a good point: what exactly counts as a "project" 
depends on the context. For simple scenarios, a project is approximately 
equal to a VC repository, but for more complex scenarios, I think it 
depends on what you want to *do* with the project. For example, suppose 
I have a Git monorepo that has several different Python packages in it. 
Should Emacs consider the monorepo to be the lone project, or should 
each Python package be a project? I don't know if either answer is 
correct 100% of the time.

(Even if we're just thinking about VC, "what project is this file in?" 
can have multiple answers. Sometimes if I'm working in a Git submodule, 
I want that submodule to be the project, not the parent repo.)

I'm not sure if we should open this can of worms yet though...

> I'm not a fan of adding a file that has no other purposes, but if people find this useful, no problem. For personal projects it certainly shouldn't hurt.
> 
> Eric, Jim, how would you like this resolution? 

I'm fine with recognizing ".project" by default, since it seems we'd 
just be adopting an already-existing practice. In addition to the cases 
already discussed, it seems that the Eclipse and STM32 IDEs also use a 
".project" file at the project root for various things.

To turn it around though, are there cases we know of where we *wouldn't* 
want ".project" to mark a project root? Maybe if an Eclipse IDE project 
were in a Git subdir? (In that case, maybe ".project" should only be 
checked for as a fallback if we couldn't determine the project using a 
"real" VC file.)

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On 12/10/2024 00:49, Jim Porter wrote:
>> I'm not a fan of adding a file that has no other purposes, but if 
>> people find this useful, no problem. For personal projects it 
>> certainly shouldn't hurt.
>>
>> Eric, Jim, how would you like this resolution? 
> 
> I'm fine with recognizing ".project" by default, since it seems we'd 
> just be adopting an already-existing practice. In addition to the cases 
> already discussed, it seems that the Eclipse and STM32 IDEs also use a 
> ".project" file at the project root for various things.

That's good to know.

> To turn it around though, are there cases we know of where we *wouldn't* 
> want ".project" to mark a project root? Maybe if an Eclipse IDE project 
> were in a Git subdir? (In that case, maybe ".project" should only be 
> checked for as a fallback if we couldn't determine the project using a 
> "real" VC file.)

That would require a new variable because 
project-vc-extra-root-markers's original goal was to allow sub-projects 
inside a VC repo (or projects outside of any repos).

At this point I'd rather recommend users who prefer a different behavior 
to customize this var to a different value, removing .project from it.

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--0000000000003cc9490624487a20
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
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If you're really serious about this, I'd like to suggest ".project.el" or
"project.el" over an unadorned ".project" to avoid clashing with
third-party software that uses .project files or directories for its own
purposes.

On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 5:20=E2=80=AFPM Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> wro=
te:

> On Fri, Oct 11, 2024, at 7:40 PM, Ship Mints wrote:
>
> I assume you're not suggesting adding ".project" to everyone's Emacs
> default configurations. It's a user option already (which I do use).
>
> I am - if it helps avoid this recurring question.
>

--0000000000003cc9490624487a20
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospac=
e">If you&#39;re really serious about this, I&#39;d like to suggest &quot;.=
project.el&quot; or &quot;project.el&quot; over an unadorned &quot;.project=
&quot; to avoid clashing with third-party software that uses .project files=
 or directories for its own purposes.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 5:20=E2=
=80=AFPM Dmitry Gutov &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dmitry@HIDDEN">dmitry@gutov.=
dev</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1e=
x"><div class=3D"msg-7469667467191530368"><u></u><div><div>On Fri, Oct 11, =
2024, at 7:40 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" id=
=3D"m_-7469667467191530368qt"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"font-family:mo=
nospace">I assume you&#39;re not suggesting adding &quot;.project&quot; to =
everyone&#39;s Emacs default configurations. It&#39;s a user option already=
 (which I do use).<br></div></div></blockquote><div>I am - if it helps avoi=
d this recurring question.</div></div></div></blockquote></div>

--0000000000003cc9490624487a20--

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On 12/10/2024 17:32, Ship Mints wrote:
> If you're really serious about this, I'd like to suggest ".project.el" 
> or "project.el" over an unadorned ".project" to avoid clashing with 
> third-party software that uses .project files or directories for its own 
> purposes.

It's probably not going to be an Elisp file (with some code inside).

And it's been mentioned in this thread that some other software uses 
file with this name in the project root. If there is data indicating 
that such dirs should not be recognized as project root in many other 
cases, we should of course reconsider. But from what I've seen in 
threads on Reddit and relater articles, people like this particular file 
name for this purpose.

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

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From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>
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--000000000000e35f3906245df5d7
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
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Yeah, people can just override the default but I wonder how many people
will be surprised. I've been experimenting with .project.el files that
indicate common project contents that span different directory hierarchies,
basically a .project.el that sets a ("safe") variable so I can try to get
tooling to look across file systems rather than just assume one base. Still
working through that to gauge its utility vs. support tooling complexity.

On Sat, Oct 12, 2024 at 4:30=E2=80=AFPM Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> wro=
te:

> On 12/10/2024 17:32, Ship Mints wrote:
> > If you're really serious about this, I'd like to suggest ".project.el"
> > or "project.el" over an unadorned ".project" to avoid clashing with
> > third-party software that uses .project files or directories for its ow=
n
> > purposes.
>
> It's probably not going to be an Elisp file (with some code inside).
>
> And it's been mentioned in this thread that some other software uses
> file with this name in the project root. If there is data indicating
> that such dirs should not be recognized as project root in many other
> cases, we should of course reconsider. But from what I've seen in
> threads on Reddit and relater articles, people like this particular file
> name for this purpose.
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospac=
e">Yeah, people can just override the default but I wonder how many people =
will be surprised. I&#39;ve been experimenting with .project.el files that =
indicate common project contents that span different directory hierarchies,=
 basically a .project.el that sets a (&quot;safe&quot;) variable so I can t=
ry to get tooling to look across file systems rather than just assume one b=
ase. Still working through that to gauge its utility vs. support tooling co=
mplexity.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Oct 12, 2024 at 4:30=E2=80=AFPM Dmitry Gutov &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:dmitry@HIDDEN">dmitry@HIDDEN</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On 12/10/2024 17:32, Ship=
 Mints wrote:<br>
&gt; If you&#39;re really serious about this, I&#39;d like to suggest &quot=
;.project.el&quot; <br>
&gt; or &quot;project.el&quot; over an unadorned &quot;.project&quot; to av=
oid clashing with <br>
&gt; third-party software that uses .project files or directories for its o=
wn <br>
&gt; purposes.<br>
<br>
It&#39;s probably not going to be an Elisp file (with some code inside).<br=
>
<br>
And it&#39;s been mentioned in this thread that some other software uses <b=
r>
file with this name in the project root. If there is data indicating <br>
that such dirs should not be recognized as project root in many other <br>
cases, we should of course reconsider. But from what I&#39;ve seen in <br>
threads on Reddit and relater articles, people like this particular file <b=
r>
name for this purpose.<br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000e35f3906245df5d7--

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