X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#7433: ls: [manual] description for --directory is insufficient Resent-From: Jari Aalto <jari.aalto@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 12:42:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.7433.B.129008411613648 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: report 7433 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 7433 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B.129008411613648 (code B ref -1); Thu, 18 Nov 2010 12:42:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Nov 2010 12:41:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1PJ3oK-0003Y5-4l for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Nov 2010 07:41:56 -0500 Received: from emh03.mail.saunalahti.fi ([62.142.5.109]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <jari.aalto@HIDDEN>) id 1PJ3oH-0003Y0-GK for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Nov 2010 07:41:55 -0500 Received: from saunalahti-vams (vs3-10.mail.saunalahti.fi [62.142.5.94]) by emh03-2.mail.saunalahti.fi (Postfix) with SMTP id D53C5EBB11 for <submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 18 Nov 2010 14:46:56 +0200 (EET) Received: from emh07.mail.saunalahti.fi ([62.142.5.117]) by vs3-10.mail.saunalahti.fi ([62.142.5.94]) with SMTP (gateway) id A03649C7C83; Thu, 18 Nov 2010 14:46:56 +0200 Received: from picasso.cante.net (a91-155-187-216.elisa-laajakaista.fi [91.155.187.216]) by emh07.mail.saunalahti.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC4341C6389 for <submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 18 Nov 2010 14:46:54 +0200 (EET) From: Jari Aalto <jari.aalto@HIDDEN> Mail-Copies-To: poster Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 14:46:54 +0200 Message-ID: <87tyje7q9t.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Antivirus: VAMS X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/pipermail/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) Package: coreutils Version: 8.5-1 Severity: normal [Forwarded from http://bugs.debian.org/603895 ] Manual page of ls(1) reads: -d, --directory list directory entries instead of contents, and do not derefer- ence symbolic links "info ls" reads: `-d' `--directory' List just the names of directories, as with other types of files, rather than listing their contents. Do not follow symbolic links listed on the command line unless the `--dereference-command-line' (`-H'), `--dereference' (`-L'), or `--dereference-command-line-symlink-to-dir' options are specified. None of these is helpful in understanding how the option is supposed to work: ls -d ls -dR ls -dr ls --directory -R ls --directory -r ls --directory => They all just return '.' After lot of Google, a miracle command syntax is found: ls -d */ Please improve the documentation and give examples. Btw, the command syntax "*/" is counterintuitive to rest of the ls(1) behavior: ls -a vs. ls -d -- System Information Debian Release: squeeze/sid APT Prefers testing APT policy: (990, testing) (500, unstable) (1, experimental) Architecture: amd64 Kernel: Linux picasso 2.6.32-5-amd64 #1 SMP Fri Sep 17 21:50:19 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux Locale: LANG=en_DK.UTF-8 -- Versions of packages `coreutils depends on'. Pre-Depends: libacl1 2.2.49-4 This package contains the libacl.so dynamic l libattr1 1:2.4.44-2 Contains the runtime environment required by libc6 2.11.2-7 Contains the standard libraries that are used libselinux1 2.0.96-1 This package provides the shared libraries fo
Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.427 (Entity 5.427) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Jari Aalto <jari.aalto@HIDDEN> Subject: bug#7433: Acknowledgement (ls: [manual] description for --directory is insufficient) Message-ID: <handler.7433.B.129008411613648.ack <at> debbugs.gnu.org> References: <87tyje7q9t.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Gnu-PR-Message: ack 7433 X-Gnu-PR-Package: coreutils Reply-To: 7433 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 12:42:02 +0000 Thank you for filing a new bug report with GNU. This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message has been received. Your message is being forwarded to the package maintainers and other interested parties for their attention; they will reply in due course. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): bug-coreutils@HIDDEN If you wish to submit further information on this problem, please send it to 7433 <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Please do not send mail to help-debbugs@HIDDEN unless you wish to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system. --=20 7433: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D7433 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@HIDDEN with problems
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#7433: ls: [manual] description for --directory is insufficient Resent-From: Eric Blake <eblake@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 15:13:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.7433.B7433.129009313517544 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7433 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jari Aalto <jari.aalto@HIDDEN> Cc: 7433 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, 603895@HIDDEN Received: via spool by 7433-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B7433.129009313517544 (code B ref 7433); Thu, 18 Nov 2010 15:13:01 +0000 Received: (at 7433) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Nov 2010 15:12:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1PJ69n-0004Yv-Dy for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Nov 2010 10:12:15 -0500 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <eblake@HIDDEN>) id 1PJ69e-0004YY-32 for 7433 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Nov 2010 10:12:13 -0500 Received: from int-mx02.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (int-mx02.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.12]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id oAIFGxBO006325 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 18 Nov 2010 10:16:59 -0500 Received: from [10.3.113.126] (ovpn-113-126.phx2.redhat.com [10.3.113.126]) by int-mx02.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id oAIFGwfD000695; Thu, 18 Nov 2010 10:16:58 -0500 Message-ID: <4CE54368.8090000@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 08:16:56 -0700 From: Eric Blake <eblake@HIDDEN> Organization: Red Hat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.12) Gecko/20101103 Fedora/1.0-0.33.b2pre.fc14 Lightning/1.0b3pre Mnenhy/0.8.3 Thunderbird/3.1.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87tyje7q9t.fsf@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87tyje7q9t.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 OpenPGP: url=http://people.redhat.com/eblake/eblake.gpg Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig2D6DF7D9FF83B9017297D934" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 10.5.11.12 X-Spam-Score: -10.2 (----------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/pipermail/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -10.2 (----------) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig2D6DF7D9FF83B9017297D934 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 11/18/2010 05:46 AM, Jari Aalto wrote: > Package: coreutils > Version: 8.5-1 > Severity: normal >=20 > [Forwarded from http://bugs.debian.org/603895 ] Thanks for the report. >=20 > Manual page of ls(1) reads: >=20 > -d, --directory > list directory entries instead of contents, and do not d= erefer- > ence symbolic links Which is generated from the 'ls --help' output. > None of these is helpful in understanding how the option is supposed > to work: >=20 > ls -d The wording for -d may not mention it, but the wording at the very beginning of the --help and man page is clear that: | Usage: ls [OPTION]... [FILE]... | List information about the FILEs (the current directory by default). That is, 'ls -d' is the same as 'ls -d .', as required by POSIX, at which point you are listing the current directory as a file, and not the contents of the current directory. > ls -dR When listing directories as files (-d), no recursion (-R) takes place because no directories are encountered, just files. Again, this behavior is required by POSIX. What wording change, if any, can you propose for the --help output that would not make things too verbose for what is supposed to be a quick reference? > After lot of Google, a miracle command syntax is found: >=20 > ls -d */ Yes, that says list all directories (and symlinks to directories) in the current directory, that don't start with leading ., as a file. > Please improve the documentation and give examples. Btw, the command > syntax "*/" is counterintuitive to rest of the ls(1) behavior: >=20 > ls -a vs. ls -d Yes, comparing these two in the info pages would be a useful addition (although I'm not sure that we should bloat the already-long --help output for this). Could you propose a patch? --=20 Eric Blake eblake@HIDDEN +1-801-349-2682 Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org --------------enig2D6DF7D9FF83B9017297D934 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Public key at http://people.redhat.com/eblake/eblake.gpg Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJM5UNpAAoJEKeha0olJ0NqlZ8H/Rj2r8uJqQHw5s3cEEfoIUE4 kl1ESK43VVoDj7Zsoxx51mPGtQt1F3PVcuo64zK0yPvIVZ+OUjwOmuDOEFedLk0W MdgD2CHofJvGfI7WNLquF6Tfx7LwWDEFtg8wGzDfGAUieEK/E7YlVSXdQnaeq80Q D4/pkFEdlna859Yk4yTVJYrlG/1FQGeYljnrYEM8/pX8iV327Hd9yYD/1MeDjnJW 4pjMFUYCBt3G6CObBt4bGhugC8T0MrvHuNQi4SE7lWXYUaTTG+l4mBof/MgoFRSf lt5E/nQvWk9aRG+d/zPlcgFZy99GJWSR5MQ19co4vwrGpYtbggiB68P+2pzM71M= =T4vS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig2D6DF7D9FF83B9017297D934--
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#7433: ls: [manual] description for --directory is insufficient References: <87tyje7q9t.fsf@HIDDEN> Resent-From: "Alan Curry" <pacman-cu@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 23:46:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.7433.B7433.129012391531048 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7433 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: eblake@HIDDEN (Eric Blake) Cc: 603895@HIDDEN, 7433 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Jari Aalto <jari.aalto@HIDDEN> Received: via spool by 7433-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B7433.129012391531048 (code B ref 7433); Thu, 18 Nov 2010 23:46:02 +0000 Received: (at 7433) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Nov 2010 23:45:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1PJEAF-00084j-4B for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Nov 2010 18:45:15 -0500 Received: from c-67-162-90-113.hsd1.in.comcast.net ([67.162.90.113] helo=kosh.dhis.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <pacman-cu@HIDDEN>) id 1PJEAD-00084c-Hn for 7433 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Nov 2010 18:45:14 -0500 Received: (qmail 17101 invoked by uid 1000); 18 Nov 2010 23:50:18 -0000 Message-ID: <20101118235018.17100.qmail@HIDDEN> From: "Alan Curry" <pacman-cu@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 18:50:18 -0500 (GMT+5) In-Reply-To: <4CE54368.8090000@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/pipermail/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) Eric Blake writes: > > The wording for -d may not mention it, but the wording at the very > beginning of the --help and man page is clear that: > > | Usage: ls [OPTION]... [FILE]... > | List information about the FILEs (the current directory by default). In other words, to correctly predict the behavior of "ls -d" you must read two pieces of information that are not immediately adjacent to each other, and use a minimal amount of thought to decide whether and how they influence each other. For people who read documentation all the way through, knowing that a thorough understanding of the available tools will be a long-term benefit, this is not a problem. Let's call these people the "smart bears". They'll get the garbage can open easily because they're patient. For people who only skim documentation, and not even that until they have a problem, the obstacle is larger. If there isn't a single sentence that tells them everything they need to know, they're not going to get it. Let's call these people the "dumb tourists". They're impatient with the garbage can latch, because they're holding a smelly bag of garbage. Smart bears see a thick instruction manual and say "Hooray! Proper documentation! I won't have to guess how it works." Dumb tourists see a thick instruction manual and say "Screw that, reading sucks, I can guess how it works." man pages are written by and for smart bears. Dumb tourists don't write documentation. Sometimes they write web pages which they optimistically call "documentation". Making documentation dumb-tourist-friendly inevitably makes it longer, because it has to have a clause for each goal that the reader might want to achieve, instead of just listing the facts and expecting the reader to be able to put them together. The increased length bothers the smart bears since it increases the time required to read the documentation all the way through. In the case of ls, I suggest that -d is special enough (since it affects how the non-option arguments are used, unlike other ls options) that a little extra length is justified. It would be reasonable to provide 2 separate SYNOPSIS lines, something like this: SYNOPSIS ls [OPTION]... [FILE]... ls -d [OPTION]... [FILE]... DESCRIPTION The first form lists the given FILEs, and if any of them are directories, the directory contents are listed. If no FILEs are given, the contents of the current directory are listed. The second form (with -d) lists the given FILEs, but any FILE that is a directory will not have its contents listed. With no FILEs given, the current directory (not its contents) is listed. I don't care how you'd translate that to/from --help. I care about man pages, not --help. If that seems like giving too much attention to -d, how about this alternative: add an EXAMPLES section. Dumb tourists love EXAMPLES sections, and smart bears can safely skip them. It's a little bit ridiculous that cat(1) has examples and ls(1) doesn't. ls has a lot more options. And the conflict between -R and -d should be explicitly mentioned. One of them makes the other meaningless, and we should say which one. -- Alan Curry
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#7433: References: <87tyje7q9t.fsf@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87tyje7q9t.fsf@HIDDEN> Resent-From: Philip Ganchev <phil.ganchev@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 16:11:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.7433.B7433.13173990504440 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7433 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 7433 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 7433-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B7433.13173990504440 (code B ref 7433); Fri, 30 Sep 2011 16:11:02 +0000 Received: (at 7433) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2011 16:10:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1R9ffl-00019X-CX for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 12:10:50 -0400 Received: from mail-iy0-f172.google.com ([209.85.210.172]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <phil.ganchev@HIDDEN>) id 1R9aRi-000193-EM for 7433 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 06:35:59 -0400 Received: by iaby26 with SMTP id y26so1730782iab.3 for <7433 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 03:34:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=j5S4EeuPGASEFWOrL/KNaCtBFHrm1drHkoKPcjwMAKM=; b=Jsv0jt5aZt5fo/O/K9lwn0U1/lqKHfD2yEcheH34CFjtiypwZAnxRRxTZNOWr0CDVq fXfYf529Q5SVdy69q92IhUgmgQtCkB7o/VyAGZ1mfh46OUhmHc2lkBJopNagcf1+ICZz ncE3vpl+OsTZk+1xoyqPm0NJqPcMVsSUBgL+A= Received: by 10.42.134.4 with SMTP id j4mr2542005ict.135.1317378892141; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 03:34:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.239.200 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 03:34:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Philip Ganchev <phil.ganchev@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 13:34:32 +0300 Message-ID: <CADOhUpfzRiq0K1nvW5_Opt02wL0gStf_zW8quv=uxX6UCDQDUw@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 18 Nov 2010, Jari Aalto wrote: >> Manual page of ls(1) reads: >> >> -d, --directory >> list directory entries instead of contents, and do not derefer- >> ence symbolic links On 18 Nov 2010, Eric Blake wrote: [...] > What wording change, if any, can you propose for the --help output that > would not make things too verbose for what is supposed to be a quick > reference? [...] Content analysis details: (1.2 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 3.0 GOT_NO_SUBJECT No real subject -1.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [209.85.210.172 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] 1.8 MISSING_SUBJECT Missing Subject: header X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 12:10:48 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) On 18 Nov 2010, Jari Aalto wrote: >> Manual page of ls(1) reads: >> >> -d, --directory >> list directory entries instead of contents, and do not derefer- >> ence symbolic links On 18 Nov 2010, Eric Blake wrote: [...] > What wording change, if any, can you propose for the --help output that > would not make things too verbose for what is supposed to be a quick > reference? --help currently shows: I would suggest: when listing directories, show their names instead of contents; do not dereference symbolic links or when listing directories, show their names, not their contents; do not dereference symbolic links These are only 13 characters (15%) longer, but are, I think, clearer. >> "info ls" reads: >> >> `-d' >> `--directory' >> List just the names of directories, as with other types of files, >> rather than listing their contents. Do not follow symbolic links >> listed on the command line unless the `--dereference-command-line' >> (`-H'), `--dereference' (`-L'), or >> `--dereference-command-line-symlink-to-dir' options are specified. I would suggest: When listing directories, list just their names like other types of files, instead of listing their contents. This overrides the `--recursive' (`-R') option. Do not follow symbolic links listed on the command line unless the `--dereference-command-line' (`-H'), `--dereference' (`-L'), or `--dereference-command-line-symlink-to-dir' options are specified. This is 55 characters (18%) longer, but clearer. Regards, Philip Ganchev
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