GNU bug report logs - #76567
30.1; package-install-upgrade-built-in upgrades built-ins to the same version

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 30.1; package-install-upgrade-built-in upgrades built-ins to the same
 version
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2025 15:35:10 -0500

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

As part of my production upgrade to 30.1, I wrote a program to install
my local ELPA tree from scratch, and take the opportunity to prune and
curate packages.

One thing that surprised me, that I didn't notice in 29.4, is that if
'package-install-upgrade-built-in' is non-nil, 'package-list-packages'
reports built-ins needing upgrades from ELPA but to the *identical
versions* in the 30.1 tree.  I was expecting upgrades to be actual
upgrades, not side-grades, as they say.  The reason I didn't see
this on 29.4, is that the distro versions were older than ELPA so I
was happy to take the upgrades.  This does not appear to be a
regression, just a general bug report.

-Stephane

In GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin22.6.0, NS appkit-2299.77
 Version 13.7.2 (Build 22H313)) of 2025-02-25 built on
 Mac-1740473029287.local
Repository revision: 2320030121b57844d3532119c12b340f1bbde5cb
Repository branch: HEAD
Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2113
System Description:  macOS 12.7.6

Configured using:
 'configure --with-ns --with-modules
 '--enable-locallisppath=/Library/Application
 Support/Emacs/${version}/site-lisp:/Library/Application
 Support/Emacs/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/opt/homebrew/share/emacs/site-lisp'
 --with-xwidgets --with-tree-sitter --with-native-compilation=aot
 'CFLAGS=-O2
 -I/nix/store/z0nspk4zsrimn9432vi6104fkl7gdrhv-libgccjit-13.3.0/include
 -I/nix/store/z0nspk4zsrimn9432vi6104fkl7gdrhv-libgccjit-13.3.0/include
 -DFD_SETSIZE=10000 -DDARWIN_UNLIMITED_SELECT -frandom-seed=mfaghx9lmv
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Configured features:
ACL DBUS GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS JPEG LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP
NOTIFY KQUEUE NS PDUMPER PNG RSVG SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP XIM XWIDGETS ZLIB

Important settings:
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  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: ELisp-ts/l

Minor modes in effect:
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Load-path shadows:
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Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug dabbrev cape-keyword eglot-tempel peg
tempel-collection tempel cape helpful cc-langs trace cl-print edebug
elisp-refs char-fold misearch multi-isearch consult-xref oc-basic
org-element org-persist org-id org-refile org-element-ast inline
avl-tree ol-eww eww url-queue mm-url ol-rmail ol-mhe ol-irc ol-info
ol-gnus nnselect gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 mm-view mml-smime smime dig
gnus-sum gnus-group gnus-undo gnus-start gnus-dbus dbus gnus-cloud
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[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #8 received at 76567 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>, Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
Cc: 76567 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76567: 30.1;
 package-install-upgrade-built-in upgrades built-ins to the same
 version
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 15:28:45 +0200

> From: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2025 15:35:10 -0500
> 
> As part of my production upgrade to 30.1, I wrote a program to install
> my local ELPA tree from scratch, and take the opportunity to prune and
> curate packages.
> 
> One thing that surprised me, that I didn't notice in 29.4, is that if
> 'package-install-upgrade-built-in' is non-nil, 'package-list-packages'
> reports built-ins needing upgrades from ELPA but to the *identical
> versions* in the 30.1 tree.  I was expecting upgrades to be actual
> upgrades, not side-grades, as they say.  The reason I didn't see
> this on 29.4, is that the distro versions were older than ELPA so I
> was happy to take the upgrades.  This does not appear to be a
> regression, just a general bug report.

Philip, could you please look into this?

Message #11 received at 76567 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>, 76567 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76567: 30.1; package-install-upgrade-built-in upgrades
 built-ins to the same version
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 15:39:40 +0000

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
>> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2025 15:35:10 -0500
>> 
>> As part of my production upgrade to 30.1, I wrote a program to install
>> my local ELPA tree from scratch, and take the opportunity to prune and
>> curate packages.
>> 
>> One thing that surprised me, that I didn't notice in 29.4, is that if
>> 'package-install-upgrade-built-in' is non-nil, 'package-list-packages'
>> reports built-ins needing upgrades from ELPA but to the *identical
>> versions* in the 30.1 tree.  I was expecting upgrades to be actual
>> upgrades, not side-grades, as they say.  The reason I didn't see
>> this on 29.4, is that the distro versions were older than ELPA so I
>> was happy to take the upgrades.  This does not appear to be a
>> regression, just a general bug report.
>
> Philip, could you please look into this?

(emacs) Package Installation says:

   If you customize ‘package-install-upgrade-built-in’ to a non-‘nil’
value, be very careful when using commands that update many packages at
once, like ‘package-upgrade-all’ and ‘U’ in the package menu: those
might overwrite built-in packages that you didn't intent to replace with
newer versions from the archives.  Don't use these bulk commands if you
want to update only a small number of built-in packages.

I read this as that OPs behaviour what the option intends to do.

Message #14 received at 76567 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 76567 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76567: 30.1; package-install-upgrade-built-in upgrades
 built-ins to the same version
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 10:41:29 -0500

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

"replace with newer versions from the archives" is not what's happening.
It seems to replace with identical versions, just from the archives.

On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 10:39 AM Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
wrote:

> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>
> >> From: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
> >> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2025 15:35:10 -0500
> >>
> >> As part of my production upgrade to 30.1, I wrote a program to install
> >> my local ELPA tree from scratch, and take the opportunity to prune and
> >> curate packages.
> >>
> >> One thing that surprised me, that I didn't notice in 29.4, is that if
> >> 'package-install-upgrade-built-in' is non-nil, 'package-list-packages'
> >> reports built-ins needing upgrades from ELPA but to the *identical
> >> versions* in the 30.1 tree.  I was expecting upgrades to be actual
> >> upgrades, not side-grades, as they say.  The reason I didn't see
> >> this on 29.4, is that the distro versions were older than ELPA so I
> >> was happy to take the upgrades.  This does not appear to be a
> >> regression, just a general bug report.
> >
> > Philip, could you please look into this?
>
> (emacs) Package Installation says:
>
>    If you customize ‘package-install-upgrade-built-in’ to a non-‘nil’
> value, be very careful when using commands that update many packages at
> once, like ‘package-upgrade-all’ and ‘U’ in the package menu: those
> might overwrite built-in packages that you didn't intent to replace with
> newer versions from the archives.  Don't use these bulk commands if you
> want to update only a small number of built-in packages.
>
> I read this as that OPs behaviour what the option intends to do.
>

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #17 received at 76567 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 76567 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76567: 30.1; package-install-upgrade-built-in upgrades
 built-ins to the same version
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 10:45:20 -0500

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

e.g., Emacs 30.1 embeds project.el:

;; Copyright (C) 2015-2025 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
;; Version: 0.11.1
;; Package-Requires: ((emacs "26.1") (xref "1.7.0"))

The not-newer version package downloaded from the archives:

;; Copyright (C) 2015-2024 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
;; Version: 0.11.1
;; Package-Requires: ((emacs "26.1") (xref "1.7.0"))

On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 10:41 AM Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> "replace with newer versions from the archives" is not what's happening.
> It seems to replace with identical versions, just from the archives.
>
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 10:39 AM Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>>
>> >> From: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
>> >> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2025 15:35:10 -0500
>> >>
>> >> As part of my production upgrade to 30.1, I wrote a program to install
>> >> my local ELPA tree from scratch, and take the opportunity to prune and
>> >> curate packages.
>> >>
>> >> One thing that surprised me, that I didn't notice in 29.4, is that if
>> >> 'package-install-upgrade-built-in' is non-nil, 'package-list-packages'
>> >> reports built-ins needing upgrades from ELPA but to the *identical
>> >> versions* in the 30.1 tree.  I was expecting upgrades to be actual
>> >> upgrades, not side-grades, as they say.  The reason I didn't see
>> >> this on 29.4, is that the distro versions were older than ELPA so I
>> >> was happy to take the upgrades.  This does not appear to be a
>> >> regression, just a general bug report.
>> >
>> > Philip, could you please look into this?
>>
>> (emacs) Package Installation says:
>>
>>    If you customize ‘package-install-upgrade-built-in’ to a non-‘nil’
>> value, be very careful when using commands that update many packages at
>> once, like ‘package-upgrade-all’ and ‘U’ in the package menu: those
>> might overwrite built-in packages that you didn't intent to replace with
>> newer versions from the archives.  Don't use these bulk commands if you
>> want to update only a small number of built-in packages.
>>
>> I read this as that OPs behaviour what the option intends to do.
>>
>

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #20 received at 76567 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
To: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 76567 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76567: 30.1; package-install-upgrade-built-in upgrades
 built-ins to the same version
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 16:48:05 +0000

Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com> writes:

> "replace with newer versions from the archives" is not what's happening.
> It seems to replace with identical versions, just from the archives.

The issue is that `package-install-upgrade-built-in' uses the phrasing

  If disabled, then ‘package-install’ will not suggest to replace a
  built-in package with a (possibly newer) version from a package archive.
                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Which is not to say that the behaviour you are describing is not
good...  A related issue here is that package.el has two separate
upgrade procedures (package-upgrade-all and the list-package one) that
cause these kinds of irregularities to pop up.  I have been planning to
rewrite the package list interface to use the same logic as the
commands, but I have to find the time to do that properly :/

>
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 10:39 AM Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>>
>> >> From: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
>> >> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2025 15:35:10 -0500
>> >>
>> >> As part of my production upgrade to 30.1, I wrote a program to install
>> >> my local ELPA tree from scratch, and take the opportunity to prune and
>> >> curate packages.
>> >>
>> >> One thing that surprised me, that I didn't notice in 29.4, is that if
>> >> 'package-install-upgrade-built-in' is non-nil, 'package-list-packages'
>> >> reports built-ins needing upgrades from ELPA but to the *identical
>> >> versions* in the 30.1 tree.  I was expecting upgrades to be actual
>> >> upgrades, not side-grades, as they say.  The reason I didn't see
>> >> this on 29.4, is that the distro versions were older than ELPA so I
>> >> was happy to take the upgrades.  This does not appear to be a
>> >> regression, just a general bug report.
>> >
>> > Philip, could you please look into this?
>>
>> (emacs) Package Installation says:
>>
>>    If you customize ‘package-install-upgrade-built-in’ to a non-‘nil’
>> value, be very careful when using commands that update many packages at
>> once, like ‘package-upgrade-all’ and ‘U’ in the package menu: those
>> might overwrite built-in packages that you didn't intent to replace with
>> newer versions from the archives.  Don't use these bulk commands if you
>> want to update only a small number of built-in packages.
>>
>> I read this as that OPs behaviour what the option intends to do.
>>

Message #23 received at 76567 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 76567 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76567: 30.1; package-install-upgrade-built-in upgrades
 built-ins to the same version
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 11:55:52 -0500

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Okay, then this behavior is merely unexpected per "newer" in the
documentation, and it's not a bug, per se.

-Stephane

On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 11:48 AM Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
wrote:

> Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
> > "replace with newer versions from the archives" is not what's happening.
> > It seems to replace with identical versions, just from the archives.
>
> The issue is that `package-install-upgrade-built-in' uses the phrasing
>
>   If disabled, then ‘package-install’ will not suggest to replace a
>   built-in package with a (possibly newer) version from a package archive.
>                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Which is not to say that the behaviour you are describing is not
> good...  A related issue here is that package.el has two separate
> upgrade procedures (package-upgrade-all and the list-package one) that
> cause these kinds of irregularities to pop up.  I have been planning to
> rewrite the package list interface to use the same logic as the
> commands, but I have to find the time to do that properly :/
>
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 10:39 AM Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
> >>
> >> >> From: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
> >> >> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2025 15:35:10 -0500
> >> >>
> >> >> As part of my production upgrade to 30.1, I wrote a program to
> install
> >> >> my local ELPA tree from scratch, and take the opportunity to prune
> and
> >> >> curate packages.
> >> >>
> >> >> One thing that surprised me, that I didn't notice in 29.4, is that if
> >> >> 'package-install-upgrade-built-in' is non-nil,
> 'package-list-packages'
> >> >> reports built-ins needing upgrades from ELPA but to the *identical
> >> >> versions* in the 30.1 tree.  I was expecting upgrades to be actual
> >> >> upgrades, not side-grades, as they say.  The reason I didn't see
> >> >> this on 29.4, is that the distro versions were older than ELPA so I
> >> >> was happy to take the upgrades.  This does not appear to be a
> >> >> regression, just a general bug report.
> >> >
> >> > Philip, could you please look into this?
> >>
> >> (emacs) Package Installation says:
> >>
> >>    If you customize ‘package-install-upgrade-built-in’ to a non-‘nil’
> >> value, be very careful when using commands that update many packages at
> >> once, like ‘package-upgrade-all’ and ‘U’ in the package menu: those
> >> might overwrite built-in packages that you didn't intent to replace with
> >> newer versions from the archives.  Don't use these bulk commands if you
> >> want to update only a small number of built-in packages.
> >>
> >> I read this as that OPs behaviour what the option intends to do.
> >>
>

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Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997,2003 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.