Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org
.
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Sat, 22 Mar 2025 03:56:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <96951858-4ff4-4f8a-bdd1-ec417bca6c42@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbq3X+=R_f5RA0Vw+MVqT5o_WU9RLFbiW3k6Ck7kdjCMdw@HIDDEN> <c9eaba94-ab94-43a1-8a54-b61fdfe9979c@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbpzh6t6brZ3QRwm3V5Du3aB3ynELFpj-O63jHJufjXeFQ@HIDDEN> <8d152760-0bc1-42cb-87c7-5ea8c5c64a93@HIDDEN> <CAN+1HbqWstW0LichhqsOWG0bx89A8yiUBih9kFb=LvsUEjyG5g@HIDDEN> <51a4f2fc-0586-4981-8263-8ebbe2eea8f0@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbrpb+ebECKO1NGMVZ+Xp2C7qAqrZfaP8PMLWktjSqTvFg@HIDDEN> <d91390e9-2948-424d-9abe-a722333fbadb@HIDDEN> <CAN+1HbqKK6dhUhx=-FvUi4mwS7x8+L+0K3KT2+OU8jjfheEm6Q@HIDDEN> <c55acbb0-fdd8-4e87-8f68-14dc029fe15d@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <c55acbb0-fdd8-4e87-8f68-14dc029fe15d@HIDDEN> From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2025 06:56:11 -0400 X-Gm-Features: AQ5f1Jpl_TNB4WD0qeLeRjhh1lCcUspeEtVVJXn3fCPTxPeAnVDgRp-58XjlnMM Message-ID: <CAN+1HbrkDkyxuN0xZSGwFTfQgZcJj+fry0ERttK0x_vTobHVZA@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#77160: raising hell (frames) To: Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bae5410630ec381d" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 77160 Cc: 77160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --000000000000bae5410630ec381d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Mar 22, 2025 at 12:42=E2=80=AFAM Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN= > wrote: > > On 3/21/25 7:48 PM, Ship Mints wrote: > > > On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 19:44 Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN> wrote: > >> >> On 3/21/25 7:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote: >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 19:29 Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN> wrote: >> >>> >>> On 3/21/25 7:16 PM, Ship Mints wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 7:11=E2=80=AFPM Christopher Stacy <cstacy@dtpq.= com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 3/21/25 6:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote: >>>> >>>> On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 6:16=E2=80=AFPM Christopher Stacy <cstacy@dtpq= .com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yes, I forgot to say: This is all about fullscreen frames. >>>>> >>>>> You never use them. I use fullscreen exclusively, for Emacs. >>>>> >>>>> When I am in Emacs (which is all day every day), I just want Emacs in >>>>> front of me. No menu bars, titlebars. or anything! >>>>> >>>>> :) >>>>> >>>>> Firefox does the stupid effect in full screen mode, too, turns out. >>>>> So we can't look there for the answer. >>>>> >>>>> I don't think the correct solution is to change a setting on the OS, >>>>> since railwaycat Emacs does the right thing without external >>>>> adjustments. >>>>> >>>>> This bug is in fact what has kept me on his hacked Emacs all these >>>>> years. But due to other bugs I have been forced to upgrade to Emacs >>>>> 30, >>>>> and I don't think he's going to update from 29. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Looking at nsfns and nsterm 29.4 vs. 30.1 I don't see anything that >>>> stands out. >>>> >>>> Where did you get your 29.4 and 30.1 builds? >>>> >>>> The bugs forcing me to upgrade to 30.1 are entirely unrelated to >>>> windowing. (Just other things that were broken and recently fixed.) >>>> >>>> Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2113 >>>> System Description: macOS 12.7.6 >>>> >>>> Emacs 29 is the railwaycat version from Homebrew. >>>> This has the behavior that I want (no effects). >>>> brew tap railwaycat/emacsmacport >>>> Which supposedly comes from: >>>> https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport >>>> GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin20.6.0, Carbon Version 164 >>>> AppKit 2022.7) of 2023-08-08 >>>> >>>> Emacs 30.1 I got from: https://emacsformacosx.com/ >>>> (I wish I knew who that entity is. I wonder if it has malware.) >>>> GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin18.7.0, NS appkit-1671.60 >>>> Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G9323)) of 2025-02-24 >>>> >>>> Is there an easy way to tell what compiler options were used on these >>>> builds? (Maybe some emacs command will tell me?) >>>> >>> It doesn't really take much effort to click around Caldwell's site and >>> find out more. You should. >>> >>> What is a "Caldwell"? >>> >> >> You'll see. >> >> Not if I don't have the URL. >> I have no idea what you're talking about. >> > > You gave it to us > https://emacsformacosx.com/ > > There is nothing on that web site pertaining to the Emacs bug I am > reporting here. > Christopher, at this point, it should be apparent that if you are not using vanilla GNU Emacs, and have chosen a build you haven't yourself made, that you need to dig into that build yourself--it's your responsibility and especially if you are concerned about "supply-chain" issues. If you "clicked around" the emacsformacosx.com site as I suggested rather than just reading it, you would have wound up here https://github.com/caldwell/build-emacs and you can see for yourself what's going on with the build you chose. Did you try the alternative build https://github.com/jimeh/emacs-builds/releases/tag/Emacs-30.1 I suggested for comparison? That's the build I use when not compiling my own. Both Caldwell's and jimeh's builds apply patches that are not in the supported GNU Emacs source. Until you put in a little more work on your own, it's not clear this is a bug in GNU Emacs. I also suggest that you attempt to replicate the behavior when running "emacs -Q". You cannot do that from the macOS launcher so run the binary directly from its location. -Stephane --000000000000bae5410630ec381d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon= t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">= On Sat, Mar 22, 2025 at 12:42=E2=80=AFAM Christopher Stacy <<a href=3D"m= ailto:cstacy@HIDDEN">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:</span></div></div><di= v class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu= ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20= 4);padding-left:1ex"><u></u> =20 =20 =20 <div> <p><br> </p> <div>On 3/21/25 7:48 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> =20 <div><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 19:44 Christopher Stacy <<a href=3D"mailto:cstacy@HIDDEN" = target=3D"_blank">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8= ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <div> <p><br> </p> <div>On 3/21/25 7:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 19:29 Christopher Stacy <<a href=3D"mailto= :cstacy@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0= px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <div> <p><br> </p> <div>On 3/21/25 7:16 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div style=3D"font-family:monospace"><span st= yle=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 7:11=E2=80=AFPM Christopher Stacy <<a = href=3D"mailto:cstacy@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:</span></div> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma= rgin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:= 1ex"> <div> <div>On 3/21/25 6:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div style=3D"font-family:monospace= "><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Fri, Mar 21, 20= 25 at 6:16=E2=80=AFPM Christopher Sta= cy <<a href=3D"mailto:cstacy@dt= pq.com" target=3D"_blank">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:</span></div> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s= tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pad= ding-left:1ex">Yes, I forgot to say: This is all about fullscreen frames.<br> <br> You never use them. I use fullscreen exclusively, for Emacs.<br> <br> When I am in Emacs (which is all day every day), I just want Emacs in <br> front of me. No menu bars, titlebars. or anything!<br> <br> :)<br> <br> Firefox does the stupid effect in full screen mode, too, turns out.<br> So we can't look there for th= e answer.<br> <br> I don't think the correct solution is to change a setting on the OS, <br> since railwaycat Emacs does the right thing without external adjustments.<br> <br> This bug is in fact what has kept me on his hacked Emacs all these <br> years. But due to other bugs I have been forced to upgrade to Emacs 30, <br> and I don't think he's go= ing to update from 29.<br> </blockquote> <div><br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:monospace= ">Looking at nsfns=C2=A0and nsterm 29.4 vs. 30.1 I don't see anything tha= t stands out.</div> <div style=3D"font-family:monospace= "><br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:monospace= ">Where did you get your 29.4 and 30.1 builds?</div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <p>The bugs forcing me to upgrade to 30.1 are entirely unrelated to windowing. (Just other things that were broken and recently fixed.)<br> </p> <p>Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2113<br> System Description:=C2=A0 macOS 12.7.6<= br> </p> <p>Emacs 29 is the railwaycat version from Homebrew.<br> This has the behavior that I want (no effects).<br> brew tap railwaycat/emacsmacport<br> Which supposedly comes from:=C2=A0=C2= =A0 <a href=3D"https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport" target= =3D"_blank">https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport</a><br> GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin20.6.0, Carbon Version 164 AppKit 2022.7) of 2023-08-08</p> <p>Emacs 30.1 I got from: <a href=3D"http= s://emacsformacosx.com/" target=3D"_blank">https://emacsformacosx.com/</a><= br> (I wish I knew who that entity is. I wonder if it has malware.)<br> GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin18.7.0, NS appkit-1671.60 Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G9323)) of 2025-02-24</p> <p>Is there an easy way to tell what compiler options were used on these builds? (Maybe some emacs command will tell me?)</p> </div> </blockquote> <div><span style=3D"font-family:monospace">It doesn't really take much effort to click around Caldwell's site and find out more.=C2=A0 You should.</span></div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <div> <p>What is a "<span style=3D"font-family:monos= pace">Caldwell"?</span></p> </div> </blockquote> <div dir=3D"auto"><br> </div> <div dir=3D"auto">You'll see. <br> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <div> <p>Not if I don't have the URL.<br> I have no idea what you're talking about.</p> </div> </blockquote> <div dir=3D"auto"><br> </div> <div dir=3D"auto">You gave it to us <div><a href=3D"https://emacsformacosx.com/" target=3D"_blank">= https://emacsformacosx.com/</a></div> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <p>There is nothing on that web site pertaining to the Emacs bug I am reporting here.</p></div></blockquote><div class=3D"gmail_default"= style=3D"font-family:monospace">Christopher, at this point, it should be a= pparent that if you are not using vanilla GNU Emacs, and have chosen a buil= d you haven't yourself made, that you need to dig into that build yours= elf--it's your responsibility and especially if you are concerned about= "supply-chain" issues.=C2=A0 If you "clicked around" t= he <a href=3D"http://emacsformacosx.com">emacsformacosx.com</a> site as I s= uggested rather than just reading it, you would have wound up here=C2=A0<a = href=3D"https://github.com/caldwell/build-emacs">https://github.com/caldwel= l/build-emacs</a>=C2=A0and you can see for yourself what's going on wit= h the build you chose.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fami= ly:monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:m= onospace">Did you try the alternative build=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://github.= com/jimeh/emacs-builds/releases/tag/Emacs-30.1">https://github.com/jimeh/em= acs-builds/releases/tag/Emacs-30.1</a>=C2=A0I suggested for comparison?=C2= =A0 That's the build I use when not compiling my own.=C2=A0 Both Caldwe= ll's and jimeh's=C2=A0builds apply patches that are not in the supp= orted GNU Emacs source.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fam= ily:monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:= monospace">Until you put in a little more work on your own, it's not cl= ear this is a bug in GNU Emacs.=C2=A0 I also suggest that you attempt to re= plicate the behavior when running "emacs -Q".=C2=A0 You cannot do= that from the macOS launcher so run the binary directly from its location.= </div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><br></di= v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">-Stephane</d= iv></div></div> --000000000000bae5410630ec381d--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#77160
; Package emacs
.
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[108.28.162.65]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d75a77b69052e-4771d52010fsm20015081cf.61.2025.03.21.21.42.31 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Mar 2025 21:42:32 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------v4Vh5bpCevL7us5LmyEyLoFZ" Message-ID: <c55acbb0-fdd8-4e87-8f68-14dc029fe15d@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2025 00:42:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: bug#77160: raising hell (frames) To: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN> References: <96951858-4ff4-4f8a-bdd1-ec417bca6c42@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbq3X+=R_f5RA0Vw+MVqT5o_WU9RLFbiW3k6Ck7kdjCMdw@HIDDEN> <c9eaba94-ab94-43a1-8a54-b61fdfe9979c@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbpzh6t6brZ3QRwm3V5Du3aB3ynELFpj-O63jHJufjXeFQ@HIDDEN> <8d152760-0bc1-42cb-87c7-5ea8c5c64a93@HIDDEN> <CAN+1HbqWstW0LichhqsOWG0bx89A8yiUBih9kFb=LvsUEjyG5g@HIDDEN> <51a4f2fc-0586-4981-8263-8ebbe2eea8f0@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbrpb+ebECKO1NGMVZ+Xp2C7qAqrZfaP8PMLWktjSqTvFg@HIDDEN> <d91390e9-2948-424d-9abe-a722333fbadb@HIDDEN> <CAN+1HbqKK6dhUhx=-FvUi4mwS7x8+L+0K3KT2+OU8jjfheEm6Q@HIDDEN> From: Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <CAN+1HbqKK6dhUhx=-FvUi4mwS7x8+L+0K3KT2+OU8jjfheEm6Q@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 77160 Cc: 77160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------v4Vh5bpCevL7us5LmyEyLoFZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 3/21/25 7:48 PM, Ship Mints wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 19:44 Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN> wrote: > > > On 3/21/25 7:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote: >> >> On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 19:29 Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN> >> wrote: >> >> >> On 3/21/25 7:16 PM, Ship Mints wrote: >>> On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 7:11 PM Christopher Stacy >>> <cstacy@HIDDEN> wrote: >>> >>> On 3/21/25 6:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote: >>>> On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 6:16 PM Christopher Stacy >>>> <cstacy@HIDDEN> wrote: >>>> >>>> Yes, I forgot to say: This is all about fullscreen >>>> frames. >>>> >>>> You never use them. I use fullscreen exclusively, >>>> for Emacs. >>>> >>>> When I am in Emacs (which is all day every day), I >>>> just want Emacs in >>>> front of me. No menu bars, titlebars. or anything! >>>> >>>> :) >>>> >>>> Firefox does the stupid effect in full screen mode, >>>> too, turns out. >>>> So we can't look there for the answer. >>>> >>>> I don't think the correct solution is to change a >>>> setting on the OS, >>>> since railwaycat Emacs does the right thing without >>>> external adjustments. >>>> >>>> This bug is in fact what has kept me on his hacked >>>> Emacs all these >>>> years. But due to other bugs I have been forced to >>>> upgrade to Emacs 30, >>>> and I don't think he's going to update from 29. >>>> >>>> >>>> Looking at nsfns and nsterm 29.4 vs. 30.1 I don't see >>>> anything that stands out. >>>> >>>> Where did you get your 29.4 and 30.1 builds? >>> >>> The bugs forcing me to upgrade to 30.1 are entirely >>> unrelated to windowing. (Just other things that were >>> broken and recently fixed.) >>> >>> Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2113 >>> System Description: macOS 12.7.6 >>> >>> Emacs 29 is the railwaycat version from Homebrew. >>> This has the behavior that I want (no effects). >>> brew tap railwaycat/emacsmacport >>> Which supposedly comes from: >>> https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport >>> GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin20.6.0, >>> Carbon Version 164 AppKit 2022.7) of 2023-08-08 >>> >>> Emacs 30.1 I got from: https://emacsformacosx.com/ >>> (I wish I knew who that entity is. I wonder if it has >>> malware.) >>> GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin18.7.0, NS >>> appkit-1671.60 Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G9323)) of >>> 2025-02-24 >>> >>> Is there an easy way to tell what compiler options were >>> used on these builds? (Maybe some emacs command will >>> tell me?) >>> >>> It doesn't really take much effort to click around >>> Caldwell's site and find out more. You should. >> >> What is a "Caldwell"? >> >> >> You'll see. > > Not if I don't have the URL. > I have no idea what you're talking about. > > > You gave it to us > https://emacsformacosx.com/ There is nothing on that web site pertaining to the Emacs bug I am reporting here. --------------v4Vh5bpCevL7us5LmyEyLoFZ Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <!DOCTYPE html> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> </head> <body> <p><br> </p> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/21/25 7:48 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAN+1HbqKK6dhUhx=-FvUi4mwS7x8+L+0K3KT2+OU8jjfheEm6Q@HIDDEN"> <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> <div><br> <div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"> <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 19:44 Christopher Stacy <<a href="mailto:cstacy@HIDDEN" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div> <p><br> </p> <div>On 3/21/25 7:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div><br> <div class="gmail_quote"> <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 19:29 Christopher Stacy <<a href="mailto:cstacy@HIDDEN" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div> <p><br> </p> <div>On 3/21/25 7:16 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div dir="ltr"> <div dir="ltr"> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 7:11 PM Christopher Stacy <<a href="mailto:cstacy@HIDDEN" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:</span></div> </div> <div class="gmail_quote"> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <div> <div>On 3/21/25 6:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div dir="ltr"> <div dir="ltr"> <div style="font-family:monospace"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 6:16 PM Christopher Stacy <<a href="mailto:cstacy@HIDDEN" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:</span></div> </div> <div class="gmail_quote"> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Yes, I forgot to say: This is all about fullscreen frames.<br> <br> You never use them. I use fullscreen exclusively, for Emacs.<br> <br> When I am in Emacs (which is all day every day), I just want Emacs in <br> front of me. No menu bars, titlebars. or anything!<br> <br> :)<br> <br> Firefox does the stupid effect in full screen mode, too, turns out.<br> So we can't look there for the answer.<br> <br> I don't think the correct solution is to change a setting on the OS, <br> since railwaycat Emacs does the right thing without external adjustments.<br> <br> This bug is in fact what has kept me on his hacked Emacs all these <br> years. But due to other bugs I have been forced to upgrade to Emacs 30, <br> and I don't think he's going to update from 29.<br> </blockquote> <div><br> </div> <div style="font-family:monospace">Looking at nsfns and nsterm 29.4 vs. 30.1 I don't see anything that stands out.</div> <div style="font-family:monospace"><br> </div> <div style="font-family:monospace">Where did you get your 29.4 and 30.1 builds?</div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <p>The bugs forcing me to upgrade to 30.1 are entirely unrelated to windowing. (Just other things that were broken and recently fixed.)<br> </p> <p>Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2113<br> System Description: macOS 12.7.6<br> </p> <p>Emacs 29 is the railwaycat version from Homebrew.<br> This has the behavior that I want (no effects).<br> brew tap railwaycat/emacsmacport<br> Which supposedly comes from: <a href="https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport</a><br> GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin20.6.0, Carbon Version 164 AppKit 2022.7) of 2023-08-08</p> <p>Emacs 30.1 I got from: <a href="https://emacsformacosx.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://emacsformacosx.com/</a><br> (I wish I knew who that entity is. I wonder if it has malware.)<br> GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin18.7.0, NS appkit-1671.60 Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G9323)) of 2025-02-24</p> <p>Is there an easy way to tell what compiler options were used on these builds? (Maybe some emacs command will tell me?)</p> </div> </blockquote> <div><span style="font-family:monospace">It doesn't really take much effort to click around Caldwell's site and find out more. You should.</span></div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <div> <p>What is a "<span style="font-family:monospace">Caldwell"?</span></p> </div> </blockquote> <div dir="auto"><br> </div> <div dir="auto">You'll see. <br> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <div> <p>Not if I don't have the URL.<br> I have no idea what you're talking about.</p> </div> </blockquote> <div dir="auto"><br> </div> <div dir="auto">You gave it to us <div><a href="https://emacsformacosx.com/" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://emacsformacosx.com/</a></div> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <p>There is nothing on that web site pertaining to the Emacs bug I am reporting here.</p> <p><br> </p> </body> </html> --------------v4Vh5bpCevL7us5LmyEyLoFZ--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#77160
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Fri, 21 Mar 2025 16:48:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <96951858-4ff4-4f8a-bdd1-ec417bca6c42@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbq3X+=R_f5RA0Vw+MVqT5o_WU9RLFbiW3k6Ck7kdjCMdw@HIDDEN> <c9eaba94-ab94-43a1-8a54-b61fdfe9979c@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbpzh6t6brZ3QRwm3V5Du3aB3ynELFpj-O63jHJufjXeFQ@HIDDEN> <8d152760-0bc1-42cb-87c7-5ea8c5c64a93@HIDDEN> <CAN+1HbqWstW0LichhqsOWG0bx89A8yiUBih9kFb=LvsUEjyG5g@HIDDEN> <51a4f2fc-0586-4981-8263-8ebbe2eea8f0@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbrpb+ebECKO1NGMVZ+Xp2C7qAqrZfaP8PMLWktjSqTvFg@HIDDEN> <d91390e9-2948-424d-9abe-a722333fbadb@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <d91390e9-2948-424d-9abe-a722333fbadb@HIDDEN> From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2025 19:48:22 -0400 X-Gm-Features: AQ5f1JrVAm_i3EEzQPLcKdxKo9zbq2psEmPdfvCN7Tqp9p_u3LwekCa2IdCC1f4 Message-ID: <CAN+1HbqKK6dhUhx=-FvUi4mwS7x8+L+0K3KT2+OU8jjfheEm6Q@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#77160: raising hell (frames) To: Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000082b59b0630e2e47f" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 77160 Cc: 77160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --00000000000082b59b0630e2e47f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 19:44 Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN> wrote: > > On 3/21/25 7:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote: > > > On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 19:29 Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN> wrote: > >> >> On 3/21/25 7:16 PM, Ship Mints wrote: >> >> On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 7:11=E2=80=AFPM Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN= om> >> wrote: >> >>> On 3/21/25 6:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 6:16=E2=80=AFPM Christopher Stacy <cstacy@dtpq.= com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, I forgot to say: This is all about fullscreen frames. >>>> >>>> You never use them. I use fullscreen exclusively, for Emacs. >>>> >>>> When I am in Emacs (which is all day every day), I just want Emacs in >>>> front of me. No menu bars, titlebars. or anything! >>>> >>>> :) >>>> >>>> Firefox does the stupid effect in full screen mode, too, turns out. >>>> So we can't look there for the answer. >>>> >>>> I don't think the correct solution is to change a setting on the OS, >>>> since railwaycat Emacs does the right thing without external >>>> adjustments. >>>> >>>> This bug is in fact what has kept me on his hacked Emacs all these >>>> years. But due to other bugs I have been forced to upgrade to Emacs 30= , >>>> and I don't think he's going to update from 29. >>>> >>> >>> Looking at nsfns and nsterm 29.4 vs. 30.1 I don't see anything that >>> stands out. >>> >>> Where did you get your 29.4 and 30.1 builds? >>> >>> The bugs forcing me to upgrade to 30.1 are entirely unrelated to >>> windowing. (Just other things that were broken and recently fixed.) >>> >>> Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2113 >>> System Description: macOS 12.7.6 >>> >>> Emacs 29 is the railwaycat version from Homebrew. >>> This has the behavior that I want (no effects). >>> brew tap railwaycat/emacsmacport >>> Which supposedly comes from: >>> https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport >>> GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin20.6.0, Carbon Version 164 >>> AppKit 2022.7) of 2023-08-08 >>> >>> Emacs 30.1 I got from: https://emacsformacosx.com/ >>> (I wish I knew who that entity is. I wonder if it has malware.) >>> GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin18.7.0, NS appkit-1671.60 >>> Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G9323)) of 2025-02-24 >>> >>> Is there an easy way to tell what compiler options were used on these >>> builds? (Maybe some emacs command will tell me?) >>> >> It doesn't really take much effort to click around Caldwell's site and >> find out more. You should. >> >> What is a "Caldwell"? >> > > You'll see. > > Not if I don't have the URL. > I have no idea what you're talking about. > You gave it to us https://emacsformacosx.com/ > --00000000000082b59b0630e2e47f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" = class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 19:44 Christopher Stacy <<a= href=3D"mailto:cstacy@HIDDEN">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br></div><b= lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px = #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u> =20 =20 =20 <div></div><div> <p><br> </p> <div>On 3/21/25 7:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> =20 <div><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 19:29 Christopher Stacy <<a href=3D"mailto:cstacy@HIDDEN" = target=3D"_blank">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord= er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div> <p><br> </p> <div>On 3/21/25 7:16 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monos= pace"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 7:11=E2=80=AFPM Christopher St= acy <<a href=3D"mailto:cstacy@HIDDEN" target=3D"_b= lank">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:</span></div> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0= px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <div> <div>On 3/21/25 6:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div style=3D"font-family:monospace"><span st= yle=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 6:16=E2=80=AFPM Christopher Stacy <<a = href=3D"mailto:cstacy@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:</span></div> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma= rgin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:= 1ex">Yes, I forgot to say: This is all about fullscreen frames.<br> <br> You never use them. I use fullscreen exclusively, for Emacs.<br> <br> When I am in Emacs (which is all day every day), I just want Emacs in <br> front of me. No menu bars, titlebars. or anything!<br> <br> :)<br> <br> Firefox does the stupid effect in full screen mode, too, turns out.<br> So we can't look there for the answer.<= br> <br> I don't think the correct solution is t= o change a setting on the OS, <br> since railwaycat Emacs does the right thing without external adjustments.<br> <br> This bug is in fact what has kept me on his hacked Emacs all these <br> years. But due to other bugs I have been forced to upgrade to Emacs 30, <br> and I don't think he's going to upd= ate from 29.<br> </blockquote> <div><br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:monospace">Looking at nsfns=C2=A0and nsterm 29.4 vs. 30.1 I don't see anything that stands out.</di= v> <div style=3D"font-family:monospace"><br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:monospace">Where did you get your 29.4 and 30.1 builds?</div= > </div> </div> </blockquote> <p>The bugs forcing me to upgrade to 30.1 are entirely unrelated to windowing. (Just other things that were broken and recently fixed.)<br> </p> <p>Windowing system distributor 'Apple', ve= rsion 10.3.2113<br> System Description:=C2=A0 macOS 12.7.6<br> </p> <p>Emacs 29 is the railwaycat version from Homebrew.<br> This has the behavior that I want (no effects).<br> brew tap railwaycat/emacsmacport<br> Which supposedly comes from:=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href= =3D"https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport" target=3D"_blank">= https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport</a><br> GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin20.6.0, Carbon Version 164 AppKit 2022.7) of 2023-08-08</p> <p>Emacs 30.1 I got from: <a href=3D"https://emacsf= ormacosx.com/" target=3D"_blank">https://emacsformacosx.com/</a><br> (I wish I knew who that entity is. I wonder if it has malware.)<br> GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin18.7.0, NS appkit-1671.60 Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G9323)) of 2025-02-24</p= > <p>Is there an easy way to tell what compiler options were used on these builds? (Maybe some emacs command will tell me?)</p> </div> </blockquote> <div><span style=3D"font-family:monospace">It doesn'= ;t really take much effort to click around Caldwell's site and find out more.=C2=A0 You sh= ould.</span></div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <div> <p>What is a "<span style=3D"font-family:monospace">Cald= well"?</span></p> </div> </blockquote> <div dir=3D"auto"><br> </div> <div dir=3D"auto">You'll see. <br> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div><div><p>Not if I don't have the URL.<br> I have no idea what you're talking about.</p></div></blockquote><= div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">You gave it to us<div><a href= =3D"https://emacsformacosx.com/">https://emacsformacosx.com/</a></div></div= ><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1= px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><p dir=3D"auto"></p> </div> </blockquote></div></div> --00000000000082b59b0630e2e47f--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#77160
; Package emacs
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[108.28.162.65]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-7c5b9355594sm188401185a.102.2025.03.21.16.44.41 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Mar 2025 16:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------6T0fIgtDlXpH02gbFx0ZdREs" Message-ID: <d91390e9-2948-424d-9abe-a722333fbadb@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2025 19:44:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: bug#77160: raising hell (frames) To: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN> References: <96951858-4ff4-4f8a-bdd1-ec417bca6c42@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbq3X+=R_f5RA0Vw+MVqT5o_WU9RLFbiW3k6Ck7kdjCMdw@HIDDEN> <c9eaba94-ab94-43a1-8a54-b61fdfe9979c@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbpzh6t6brZ3QRwm3V5Du3aB3ynELFpj-O63jHJufjXeFQ@HIDDEN> <8d152760-0bc1-42cb-87c7-5ea8c5c64a93@HIDDEN> <CAN+1HbqWstW0LichhqsOWG0bx89A8yiUBih9kFb=LvsUEjyG5g@HIDDEN> <51a4f2fc-0586-4981-8263-8ebbe2eea8f0@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbrpb+ebECKO1NGMVZ+Xp2C7qAqrZfaP8PMLWktjSqTvFg@HIDDEN> From: Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <CAN+1Hbrpb+ebECKO1NGMVZ+Xp2C7qAqrZfaP8PMLWktjSqTvFg@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 77160 Cc: 77160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6T0fIgtDlXpH02gbFx0ZdREs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 3/21/25 7:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 19:29 Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN> wrote: > > > On 3/21/25 7:16 PM, Ship Mints wrote: >> On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 7:11 PM Christopher Stacy >> <cstacy@HIDDEN> wrote: >> >> On 3/21/25 6:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote: >>> On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 6:16 PM Christopher Stacy >>> <cstacy@HIDDEN> wrote: >>> >>> Yes, I forgot to say: This is all about fullscreen frames. >>> >>> You never use them. I use fullscreen exclusively, for Emacs. >>> >>> When I am in Emacs (which is all day every day), I just >>> want Emacs in >>> front of me. No menu bars, titlebars. or anything! >>> >>> :) >>> >>> Firefox does the stupid effect in full screen mode, too, >>> turns out. >>> So we can't look there for the answer. >>> >>> I don't think the correct solution is to change a >>> setting on the OS, >>> since railwaycat Emacs does the right thing without >>> external adjustments. >>> >>> This bug is in fact what has kept me on his hacked Emacs >>> all these >>> years. But due to other bugs I have been forced to >>> upgrade to Emacs 30, >>> and I don't think he's going to update from 29. >>> >>> >>> Looking at nsfns and nsterm 29.4 vs. 30.1 I don't see >>> anything that stands out. >>> >>> Where did you get your 29.4 and 30.1 builds? >> >> The bugs forcing me to upgrade to 30.1 are entirely unrelated >> to windowing. (Just other things that were broken and >> recently fixed.) >> >> Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2113 >> System Description: macOS 12.7.6 >> >> Emacs 29 is the railwaycat version from Homebrew. >> This has the behavior that I want (no effects). >> brew tap railwaycat/emacsmacport >> Which supposedly comes from: >> https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport >> GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin20.6.0, Carbon >> Version 164 AppKit 2022.7) of 2023-08-08 >> >> Emacs 30.1 I got from: https://emacsformacosx.com/ >> (I wish I knew who that entity is. I wonder if it has malware.) >> GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin18.7.0, NS >> appkit-1671.60 Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G9323)) of 2025-02-24 >> >> Is there an easy way to tell what compiler options were used >> on these builds? (Maybe some emacs command will tell me?) >> >> It doesn't really take much effort to click around Caldwell's >> site and find out more. You should. > > What is a "Caldwell"? > > > You'll see. Not if I don't have the URL. I have no idea what you're talking about. --------------6T0fIgtDlXpH02gbFx0ZdREs Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <!DOCTYPE html> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> </head> <body> <p><br> </p> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/21/25 7:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAN+1Hbrpb+ebECKO1NGMVZ+Xp2C7qAqrZfaP8PMLWktjSqTvFg@HIDDEN"> <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> <div><br> <div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"> <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 19:29 Christopher Stacy <<a href="mailto:cstacy@HIDDEN" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div> <p><br> </p> <div>On 3/21/25 7:16 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div dir="ltr"> <div dir="ltr"> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 7:11 PM Christopher Stacy <<a href="mailto:cstacy@HIDDEN" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:</span></div> </div> <div class="gmail_quote"> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <div> <div>On 3/21/25 6:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div dir="ltr"> <div dir="ltr"> <div style="font-family:monospace"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 6:16 PM Christopher Stacy <<a href="mailto:cstacy@HIDDEN" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:</span></div> </div> <div class="gmail_quote"> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Yes, I forgot to say: This is all about fullscreen frames.<br> <br> You never use them. I use fullscreen exclusively, for Emacs.<br> <br> When I am in Emacs (which is all day every day), I just want Emacs in <br> front of me. No menu bars, titlebars. or anything!<br> <br> :)<br> <br> Firefox does the stupid effect in full screen mode, too, turns out.<br> So we can't look there for the answer.<br> <br> I don't think the correct solution is to change a setting on the OS, <br> since railwaycat Emacs does the right thing without external adjustments.<br> <br> This bug is in fact what has kept me on his hacked Emacs all these <br> years. But due to other bugs I have been forced to upgrade to Emacs 30, <br> and I don't think he's going to update from 29.<br> </blockquote> <div><br> </div> <div style="font-family:monospace">Looking at nsfns and nsterm 29.4 vs. 30.1 I don't see anything that stands out.</div> <div style="font-family:monospace"><br> </div> <div style="font-family:monospace">Where did you get your 29.4 and 30.1 builds?</div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <p>The bugs forcing me to upgrade to 30.1 are entirely unrelated to windowing. (Just other things that were broken and recently fixed.)<br> </p> <p>Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2113<br> System Description: macOS 12.7.6<br> </p> <p>Emacs 29 is the railwaycat version from Homebrew.<br> This has the behavior that I want (no effects).<br> brew tap railwaycat/emacsmacport<br> Which supposedly comes from: <a href="https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport</a><br> GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin20.6.0, Carbon Version 164 AppKit 2022.7) of 2023-08-08</p> <p>Emacs 30.1 I got from: <a href="https://emacsformacosx.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://emacsformacosx.com/</a><br> (I wish I knew who that entity is. I wonder if it has malware.)<br> GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin18.7.0, NS appkit-1671.60 Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G9323)) of 2025-02-24</p> <p>Is there an easy way to tell what compiler options were used on these builds? (Maybe some emacs command will tell me?)</p> </div> </blockquote> <div><span style="font-family:monospace">It doesn't really take much effort to click around Caldwell's site and find out more. You should.</span></div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <div> <p>What is a "<span style="font-family:monospace">Caldwell"?</span></p> </div> </blockquote> <div dir="auto"><br> </div> <div dir="auto">You'll see. <br> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <p>Not if I don't have the URL.<br> I have no idea what you're talking about.</p> <p><br> </p> </body> </html> --------------6T0fIgtDlXpH02gbFx0ZdREs--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#77160
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Fri, 21 Mar 2025 16:32:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <96951858-4ff4-4f8a-bdd1-ec417bca6c42@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbq3X+=R_f5RA0Vw+MVqT5o_WU9RLFbiW3k6Ck7kdjCMdw@HIDDEN> <c9eaba94-ab94-43a1-8a54-b61fdfe9979c@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbpzh6t6brZ3QRwm3V5Du3aB3ynELFpj-O63jHJufjXeFQ@HIDDEN> <8d152760-0bc1-42cb-87c7-5ea8c5c64a93@HIDDEN> <CAN+1HbqWstW0LichhqsOWG0bx89A8yiUBih9kFb=LvsUEjyG5g@HIDDEN> <51a4f2fc-0586-4981-8263-8ebbe2eea8f0@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <51a4f2fc-0586-4981-8263-8ebbe2eea8f0@HIDDEN> From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2025 19:32:01 -0400 X-Gm-Features: AQ5f1JruzPOq-aK9Ww6LDaPREsygcCy2igU8xAm0id1UyJ3iPA9uElEo8UqobFA Message-ID: <CAN+1Hbrpb+ebECKO1NGMVZ+Xp2C7qAqrZfaP8PMLWktjSqTvFg@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#77160: raising hell (frames) To: Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000f026e0630e2aae2" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 77160 Cc: 77160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --0000000000000f026e0630e2aae2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 19:29 Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN> wrote: > > On 3/21/25 7:16 PM, Ship Mints wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 7:11=E2=80=AFPM Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN= m> wrote: > >> On 3/21/25 6:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote: >> >> On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 6:16=E2=80=AFPM Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN= om> >> wrote: >> >>> Yes, I forgot to say: This is all about fullscreen frames. >>> >>> You never use them. I use fullscreen exclusively, for Emacs. >>> >>> When I am in Emacs (which is all day every day), I just want Emacs in >>> front of me. No menu bars, titlebars. or anything! >>> >>> :) >>> >>> Firefox does the stupid effect in full screen mode, too, turns out. >>> So we can't look there for the answer. >>> >>> I don't think the correct solution is to change a setting on the OS, >>> since railwaycat Emacs does the right thing without external adjustment= s. >>> >>> This bug is in fact what has kept me on his hacked Emacs all these >>> years. But due to other bugs I have been forced to upgrade to Emacs 30, >>> and I don't think he's going to update from 29. >>> >> >> Looking at nsfns and nsterm 29.4 vs. 30.1 I don't see anything that >> stands out. >> >> Where did you get your 29.4 and 30.1 builds? >> >> The bugs forcing me to upgrade to 30.1 are entirely unrelated to >> windowing. (Just other things that were broken and recently fixed.) >> >> Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2113 >> System Description: macOS 12.7.6 >> >> Emacs 29 is the railwaycat version from Homebrew. >> This has the behavior that I want (no effects). >> brew tap railwaycat/emacsmacport >> Which supposedly comes from: >> https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport >> GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin20.6.0, Carbon Version 164 >> AppKit 2022.7) of 2023-08-08 >> >> Emacs 30.1 I got from: https://emacsformacosx.com/ >> (I wish I knew who that entity is. I wonder if it has malware.) >> GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin18.7.0, NS appkit-1671.60 >> Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G9323)) of 2025-02-24 >> >> Is there an easy way to tell what compiler options were used on these >> builds? (Maybe some emacs command will tell me?) >> > It doesn't really take much effort to click around Caldwell's site and > find out more. You should. > > What is a "Caldwell"? > You'll see. > --0000000000000f026e0630e2aae2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" = class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 19:29 Christopher Stacy <<a= href=3D"mailto:cstacy@HIDDEN">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br></div><b= lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px = #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u> =20 =20 =20 <div></div><div> <p><br> </p> <div>On 3/21/25 7:16 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> =20 <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><spa= n style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 7:11=E2=80=AFPM Christopher Stacy <<a href=3D"= mailto:cstacy@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:</span></div> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8= ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <div> <div>On 3/21/25 6:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div style=3D"font-family:monospace"><span style=3D"fon= t-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 6:16=E2=80=AFPM Christopher St= acy <<a href=3D"mailto:cstacy@HIDDEN" target=3D"_b= lank">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:</span></div> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0= px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Yes, I forgot to say: This is all about fullscreen frames.<br> <br> You never use them. I use fullscreen exclusively, for Emacs.<br> <br> When I am in Emacs (which is all day every day), I just want Emacs in <br> front of me. No menu bars, titlebars. or anything!<br= > <br> :)<br> <br> Firefox does the stupid effect in full screen mode, too, turns out.<br> So we can't look there for the answer.<br> <br> I don't think the correct solution is to change a setting on the OS, <br> since railwaycat Emacs does the right thing without external adjustments.<br> <br> This bug is in fact what has kept me on his hacked Emacs all these <br> years. But due to other bugs I have been forced to upgrade to Emacs 30, <br> and I don't think he's going to update from 2= 9.<br> </blockquote> <div><br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:monospace">Looking at nsfns=C2=A0and nsterm 29.4 vs. 30.1 I don't see anything that stands out.</div> <div style=3D"font-family:monospace"><br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:monospace">Where did you get your 29.4 and 30.1 builds?</div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <p>The bugs forcing me to upgrade to 30.1 are entirely unrelated to windowing. (Just other things that were broken and recently fixed.)<br> </p> <p>Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3= .2113<br> System Description:=C2=A0 macOS 12.7.6<br> </p> <p>Emacs 29 is the railwaycat version from Homebrew.<br> This has the behavior that I want (no effects).<br> brew tap railwaycat/emacsmacport<br> Which supposedly comes from:=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"https:/= /github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport" target=3D"_blank">https://git= hub.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport</a><br> GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin20.6.0, Carbon Version 164 AppKit 2022.7) of 2023-08-08</p> <p>Emacs 30.1 I got from: <a href=3D"https://emacsformacosx.c= om/" target=3D"_blank">https://emacsformacosx.com/</a><br> (I wish I knew who that entity is. I wonder if it has malware.)<br> GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin18.7.0, NS appkit-1671.60 Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G9323)) of 2025-02-24</p> <p>Is there an easy way to tell what compiler options were used on these builds? (Maybe some emacs command will tell me?)</p> </div> </blockquote> <div><span style=3D"font-family:monospace">It doesn't really take much effort to click around Caldwell's site and find out more.=C2=A0 You should.</span></div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div><div><p>What is a "<span style=3D"font-family:monospace">Cal= dwell"?</span></p></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div = dir=3D"auto">You'll see.=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s= tyle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div= ><p dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace"></span></p> </div> </blockquote></div></div> --0000000000000f026e0630e2aae2--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#77160
; Package emacs
.
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[108.28.162.65]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-7c5b92ec542sm188588485a.60.2025.03.21.16.29.16 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Mar 2025 16:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------BNFGEnXStPs803RVv9rdXQYS" Message-ID: <51a4f2fc-0586-4981-8263-8ebbe2eea8f0@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2025 19:29:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: bug#77160: raising hell (frames) To: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN> References: <96951858-4ff4-4f8a-bdd1-ec417bca6c42@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbq3X+=R_f5RA0Vw+MVqT5o_WU9RLFbiW3k6Ck7kdjCMdw@HIDDEN> <c9eaba94-ab94-43a1-8a54-b61fdfe9979c@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbpzh6t6brZ3QRwm3V5Du3aB3ynELFpj-O63jHJufjXeFQ@HIDDEN> <8d152760-0bc1-42cb-87c7-5ea8c5c64a93@HIDDEN> <CAN+1HbqWstW0LichhqsOWG0bx89A8yiUBih9kFb=LvsUEjyG5g@HIDDEN> From: Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <CAN+1HbqWstW0LichhqsOWG0bx89A8yiUBih9kFb=LvsUEjyG5g@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 77160 Cc: 77160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------BNFGEnXStPs803RVv9rdXQYS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 3/21/25 7:16 PM, Ship Mints wrote: > On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 7:11 PM Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN> wrote: > > On 3/21/25 6:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote: >> On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 6:16 PM Christopher Stacy >> <cstacy@HIDDEN> wrote: >> >> Yes, I forgot to say: This is all about fullscreen frames. >> >> You never use them. I use fullscreen exclusively, for Emacs. >> >> When I am in Emacs (which is all day every day), I just want >> Emacs in >> front of me. No menu bars, titlebars. or anything! >> >> :) >> >> Firefox does the stupid effect in full screen mode, too, >> turns out. >> So we can't look there for the answer. >> >> I don't think the correct solution is to change a setting on >> the OS, >> since railwaycat Emacs does the right thing without external >> adjustments. >> >> This bug is in fact what has kept me on his hacked Emacs all >> these >> years. But due to other bugs I have been forced to upgrade to >> Emacs 30, >> and I don't think he's going to update from 29. >> >> >> Looking at nsfns and nsterm 29.4 vs. 30.1 I don't see anything >> that stands out. >> >> Where did you get your 29.4 and 30.1 builds? > > The bugs forcing me to upgrade to 30.1 are entirely unrelated to > windowing. (Just other things that were broken and recently fixed.) > > Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2113 > System Description: macOS 12.7.6 > > Emacs 29 is the railwaycat version from Homebrew. > This has the behavior that I want (no effects). > brew tap railwaycat/emacsmacport > Which supposedly comes from: > https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport > GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin20.6.0, Carbon Version > 164 AppKit 2022.7) of 2023-08-08 > > Emacs 30.1 I got from: https://emacsformacosx.com/ > (I wish I knew who that entity is. I wonder if it has malware.) > GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin18.7.0, NS > appkit-1671.60 Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G9323)) of 2025-02-24 > > Is there an easy way to tell what compiler options were used on > these builds? (Maybe some emacs command will tell me?) > > It doesn't really take much effort to click around Caldwell's site and > find out more. You should. What is a "Caldwell"? --------------BNFGEnXStPs803RVv9rdXQYS Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <!DOCTYPE html> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> </head> <body> <p><br> </p> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/21/25 7:16 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAN+1HbqWstW0LichhqsOWG0bx89A8yiUBih9kFb=LvsUEjyG5g@HIDDEN"> <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> <div dir="ltr"> <div dir="ltr"> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 7:11 PM Christopher Stacy <<a href="mailto:cstacy@HIDDEN" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:</span></div> </div> <div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <div> <div>On 3/21/25 6:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div dir="ltr"> <div dir="ltr"> <div style="font-family:monospace"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 6:16 PM Christopher Stacy <<a href="mailto:cstacy@HIDDEN" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:</span></div> </div> <div class="gmail_quote"> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Yes, I forgot to say: This is all about fullscreen frames.<br> <br> You never use them. I use fullscreen exclusively, for Emacs.<br> <br> When I am in Emacs (which is all day every day), I just want Emacs in <br> front of me. No menu bars, titlebars. or anything!<br> <br> :)<br> <br> Firefox does the stupid effect in full screen mode, too, turns out.<br> So we can't look there for the answer.<br> <br> I don't think the correct solution is to change a setting on the OS, <br> since railwaycat Emacs does the right thing without external adjustments.<br> <br> This bug is in fact what has kept me on his hacked Emacs all these <br> years. But due to other bugs I have been forced to upgrade to Emacs 30, <br> and I don't think he's going to update from 29.<br> </blockquote> <div><br> </div> <div style="font-family:monospace">Looking at nsfns and nsterm 29.4 vs. 30.1 I don't see anything that stands out.</div> <div style="font-family:monospace"><br> </div> <div style="font-family:monospace">Where did you get your 29.4 and 30.1 builds?</div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <p>The bugs forcing me to upgrade to 30.1 are entirely unrelated to windowing. (Just other things that were broken and recently fixed.)<br> </p> <p>Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2113<br> System Description: macOS 12.7.6<br> </p> <p>Emacs 29 is the railwaycat version from Homebrew.<br> This has the behavior that I want (no effects).<br> brew tap railwaycat/emacsmacport<br> Which supposedly comes from: <a href="https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport</a><br> GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin20.6.0, Carbon Version 164 AppKit 2022.7) of 2023-08-08</p> <p>Emacs 30.1 I got from: <a href="https://emacsformacosx.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://emacsformacosx.com/</a><br> (I wish I knew who that entity is. I wonder if it has malware.)<br> GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin18.7.0, NS appkit-1671.60 Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G9323)) of 2025-02-24</p> <p>Is there an easy way to tell what compiler options were used on these builds? (Maybe some emacs command will tell me?)</p> </div> </blockquote> <div><span style="font-family:monospace">It doesn't really take much effort to click around Caldwell's site and find out more. You should.</span></div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <p>What is a "<span style="font-family:monospace">Caldwell"?</span></p> <p><span style="font-family:monospace"><br> </span></p> </body> </html> --------------BNFGEnXStPs803RVv9rdXQYS--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#77160
; Package emacs
.
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(Maybe some emacs command will tell me?) > > system-configuration-options > Right. And he needs to know what third-party patches were applied by each builder that aren't reported by system-configuration-options. Why he needs to know more about the builds because core Emacs folk won't be of that much help if a patch is the culprit. --00000000000001516a0630e29ebf Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon= t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">= On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 7:25=E2=80=AFPM Andreas Schwab <<a href=3D"mailt= o:schwab@HIDDEN">schwab@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:</span></div><= /div><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class=3D"= gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20= 4,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On M=C3=A4r 21 2025, Christopher Stacy wrote:<= br> <br> > Is there an easy way to tell what compiler options were used on these<= br> > builds? (Maybe some emacs command will tell me?)<br> <br> system-configuration-options<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div class=3D"g= mail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">Right.=C2=A0 And he needs to = know what third-party patches were applied by each builder that aren't = reported by system-configuration-options.=C2=A0 Why he needs to know more a= bout the builds because core Emacs folk won't be of that much help if a= patch is the culprit.</div></div></div> --00000000000001516a0630e29ebf--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#77160
; Package emacs
.
Full text available.Received: (at 77160) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Mar 2025 23:25:50 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 21 19:25:50 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39971 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tvlkM-000598-5K for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Mar 2025 19:25:50 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([2001:a60:0:28:0:1:25:1]:38554) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <whitebox@HIDDEN>) id 1tvlkJ-00058y-Bu for 77160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Mar 2025 19:25:48 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ZKJTh6JSnz1sG7h; Sat, 22 Mar 2025 00:25:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.68]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ZKJTh2n6Kz1qqmD; Sat, 22 Mar 2025 00:25:44 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavis at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.68]) (amavis, port 10024) with ESMTP id hu16QbotSb2v; Sat, 22 Mar 2025 00:25:43 +0100 (CET) X-Auth-Info: 7zC9AVJA9pIef/qz+jXUjs6rM3Nfk4mHDy9lUHFEpWeyCMRE5PXzRGY30kR9S2Fp Received: from igel.home (aftr-82-135-83-148.dynamic.mnet-online.de [82.135.83.148]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Sat, 22 Mar 2025 00:25:43 +0100 (CET) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6B19B2C1A07; Sat, 22 Mar 2025 00:25:43 +0100 (CET) From: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN> To: Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#77160: raising hell (frames) In-Reply-To: <8d152760-0bc1-42cb-87c7-5ea8c5c64a93@HIDDEN> (Christopher Stacy's message of "Fri, 21 Mar 2025 19:10:58 -0400") References: <96951858-4ff4-4f8a-bdd1-ec417bca6c42@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbq3X+=R_f5RA0Vw+MVqT5o_WU9RLFbiW3k6Ck7kdjCMdw@HIDDEN> <c9eaba94-ab94-43a1-8a54-b61fdfe9979c@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbpzh6t6brZ3QRwm3V5Du3aB3ynELFpj-O63jHJufjXeFQ@HIDDEN> <8d152760-0bc1-42cb-87c7-5ea8c5c64a93@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2025 00:25:43 +0100 Message-ID: <87cyeax8y0.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 77160 Cc: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>, 77160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) On Mär 21 2025, Christopher Stacy wrote: > Is there an easy way to tell what compiler options were used on these > builds? (Maybe some emacs command will tell me?) system-configuration-options -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@HIDDEN GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different."
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#77160
; Package emacs
.
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I use fullscreen exclusively, for Emacs. >> >> When I am in Emacs (which is all day every day), I just want Emacs in >> front of me. No menu bars, titlebars. or anything! >> >> :) >> >> Firefox does the stupid effect in full screen mode, too, turns out. >> So we can't look there for the answer. >> >> I don't think the correct solution is to change a setting on the OS, >> since railwaycat Emacs does the right thing without external adjustments= . >> >> This bug is in fact what has kept me on his hacked Emacs all these >> years. But due to other bugs I have been forced to upgrade to Emacs 30, >> and I don't think he's going to update from 29. >> > > Looking at nsfns and nsterm 29.4 vs. 30.1 I don't see anything that stand= s > out. > > Where did you get your 29.4 and 30.1 builds? > > The bugs forcing me to upgrade to 30.1 are entirely unrelated to > windowing. (Just other things that were broken and recently fixed.) > > Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2113 > System Description: macOS 12.7.6 > > Emacs 29 is the railwaycat version from Homebrew. > This has the behavior that I want (no effects). > brew tap railwaycat/emacsmacport > Which supposedly comes from: > https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport > GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin20.6.0, Carbon Version 164 > AppKit 2022.7) of 2023-08-08 > > Emacs 30.1 I got from: https://emacsformacosx.com/ > (I wish I knew who that entity is. I wonder if it has malware.) > GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin18.7.0, NS appkit-1671.60 > Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G9323)) of 2025-02-24 > > Is there an easy way to tell what compiler options were used on these > builds? (Maybe some emacs command will tell me?) > It doesn't really take much effort to click around Caldwell's site and find out more. You should. Try this build https://github.com/jimeh/emacs-builds/releases/tag/Emacs-30.= 1 and see if it differs. This is the one I use when not building my own from source. You should also check your macOS settings for full-screen application behaviors. It is possible there's something to them that you need to understand. --00000000000065e4800630e27146 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon= t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">= On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 7:11=E2=80=AFPM Christopher Stacy <<a href=3D"ma= ilto:cstacy@HIDDEN">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:</span></div></div><div= class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo= te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204= );padding-left:1ex"><div> <div>On 3/21/25 6:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> =20 <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div style=3D"font-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-family:A= rial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 6:16=E2=80=AFPM Christopher Stacy <<a href=3D"= mailto:cstacy@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:</span></div> </div> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8= ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Yes, I forgot to say: This is all about fullscreen frames.<br> <br> You never use them. I use fullscreen exclusively, for Emacs.<br= > <br> When I am in Emacs (which is all day every day), I just want Emacs in <br> front of me. No menu bars, titlebars. or anything!<br> <br> :)<br> <br> Firefox does the stupid effect in full screen mode, too, turns out.<br> So we can't look there for the answer.<br> <br> I don't think the correct solution is to change a setting o= n the OS, <br> since railwaycat Emacs does the right thing without external adjustments.<br> <br> This bug is in fact what has kept me on his hacked Emacs all these <br> years. But due to other bugs I have been forced to upgrade to Emacs 30, <br> and I don't think he's going to update from 29.<br> </blockquote> <div><br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:monospace">Looking at nsfns=C2=A0and nsterm 29.4 vs. 30.1 I don't see anything= that stands out.</div> <div style=3D"font-family:monospace"><br> </div> <div style=3D"font-family:monospace">Where did you get your 29.4 and 30.1 builds?</div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <p>The bugs forcing me to upgrade to 30.1 are entirely unrelated to windowing. (Just other things that were broken and recently fixed.)<br> </p> <p>Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2113<br> System Description:=C2=A0 macOS 12.7.6<br> </p> <p>Emacs 29 is the railwaycat version from Homebrew.<br> This has the behavior that I want (no effects).<br> brew tap railwaycat/emacsmacport<br> Which supposedly comes from:=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport" targe= t=3D"_blank">https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport</a><br> GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin20.6.0, Carbon Version 164 AppKit 2022.7) of 2023-08-08</p> <p>Emacs 30.1 I got from: <a href=3D"https://emacsformacosx.com/" targe= t=3D"_blank">https://emacsformacosx.com/</a><br> (I wish I knew who that entity is. I wonder if it has malware.)<br> GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin18.7.0, NS appkit-1671.60 Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G9323)) of 2025-02-24</p> <p>Is there an easy way to tell what compiler options were used on these builds? (Maybe some emacs command will tell me?)</p></div></blo= ckquote><div><span style=3D"font-family:monospace">It doesn't really ta= ke much effort to click around Caldwell's site and find out more.=C2=A0= You should.</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:monospace"><br></s= pan></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:monospace">T<span class=3D"gmail_= default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">ry this build=C2=A0<a href=3D"http= s://github.com/jimeh/emacs-builds/releases/tag/Emacs-30.1">https://github.c= om/jimeh/emacs-builds/releases/tag/Emacs-30.1</a>=C2=A0and see if it differ= s.=C2=A0 This is the one I use when not building my own from source.</span>= </span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:monospace"><span class=3D"gmai= l_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><br></span></span></div><div><sp= an style=3D"font-family:monospace"><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f= ont-family:monospace">You should also check your macOS settings for full-sc= reen application behaviors.=C2=A0 It is possible there's something to t= hem that you need to understand.</span></span></div></div></div> --00000000000065e4800630e27146--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#77160
; Package emacs
.
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[108.28.162.65]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-7c5b93554c6sm185402785a.101.2025.03.21.16.10.58 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Mar 2025 16:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------xVNK4i0rOApmnUD0jBGNU30M" Message-ID: <8d152760-0bc1-42cb-87c7-5ea8c5c64a93@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2025 19:10:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: bug#77160: raising hell (frames) To: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN> References: <96951858-4ff4-4f8a-bdd1-ec417bca6c42@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbq3X+=R_f5RA0Vw+MVqT5o_WU9RLFbiW3k6Ck7kdjCMdw@HIDDEN> <c9eaba94-ab94-43a1-8a54-b61fdfe9979c@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbpzh6t6brZ3QRwm3V5Du3aB3ynELFpj-O63jHJufjXeFQ@HIDDEN> From: Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <CAN+1Hbpzh6t6brZ3QRwm3V5Du3aB3ynELFpj-O63jHJufjXeFQ@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 77160 Cc: Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN>, 77160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------xVNK4i0rOApmnUD0jBGNU30M Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 3/21/25 6:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote: > On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 6:16 PM Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN> wrote: > > Yes, I forgot to say: This is all about fullscreen frames. > > You never use them. I use fullscreen exclusively, for Emacs. > > When I am in Emacs (which is all day every day), I just want Emacs in > front of me. No menu bars, titlebars. or anything! > > :) > > Firefox does the stupid effect in full screen mode, too, turns out. > So we can't look there for the answer. > > I don't think the correct solution is to change a setting on the OS, > since railwaycat Emacs does the right thing without external > adjustments. > > This bug is in fact what has kept me on his hacked Emacs all these > years. But due to other bugs I have been forced to upgrade to > Emacs 30, > and I don't think he's going to update from 29. > > > Looking at nsfns and nsterm 29.4 vs. 30.1 I don't see anything that > stands out. > > Where did you get your 29.4 and 30.1 builds? The bugs forcing me to upgrade to 30.1 are entirely unrelated to windowing. (Just other things that were broken and recently fixed.) Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2113 System Description: macOS 12.7.6 Emacs 29 is the railwaycat version from Homebrew. This has the behavior that I want (no effects). brew tap railwaycat/emacsmacport Which supposedly comes from: https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin20.6.0, Carbon Version 164 AppKit 2022.7) of 2023-08-08 Emacs 30.1 I got from: https://emacsformacosx.com/ (I wish I knew who that entity is. I wonder if it has malware.) GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin18.7.0, NS appkit-1671.60 Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G9323)) of 2025-02-24 Is there an easy way to tell what compiler options were used on these builds? (Maybe some emacs command will tell me?) --------------xVNK4i0rOApmnUD0jBGNU30M Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <!DOCTYPE html> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> </head> <body> <p><br> </p> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/21/25 6:32 PM, Ship Mints wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAN+1Hbpzh6t6brZ3QRwm3V5Du3aB3ynELFpj-O63jHJufjXeFQ@HIDDEN"> <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> <div dir="ltr"> <div dir="ltr"> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 6:16 PM Christopher Stacy <<a href="mailto:cstacy@HIDDEN" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:</span></div> </div> <div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Yes, I forgot to say: This is all about fullscreen frames.<br> <br> You never use them. I use fullscreen exclusively, for Emacs.<br> <br> When I am in Emacs (which is all day every day), I just want Emacs in <br> front of me. No menu bars, titlebars. or anything!<br> <br> :)<br> <br> Firefox does the stupid effect in full screen mode, too, turns out.<br> So we can't look there for the answer.<br> <br> I don't think the correct solution is to change a setting on the OS, <br> since railwaycat Emacs does the right thing without external adjustments.<br> <br> This bug is in fact what has kept me on his hacked Emacs all these <br> years. But due to other bugs I have been forced to upgrade to Emacs 30, <br> and I don't think he's going to update from 29.<br> </blockquote> <div><br> </div> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">Looking at nsfns and nsterm 29.4 vs. 30.1 I don't see anything that stands out.</div> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br> </div> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">Where did you get your 29.4 and 30.1 builds?</div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <p>The bugs forcing me to upgrade to 30.1 are entirely unrelated to windowing. (Just other things that were broken and recently fixed.)<br> </p> <p>Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2113<br> System Description: macOS 12.7.6<br> </p> <p>Emacs 29 is the railwaycat version from Homebrew.<br> This has the behavior that I want (no effects).<br> brew tap railwaycat/emacsmacport<br> Which supposedly comes from: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport">https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport</a><br> GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin20.6.0, Carbon Version 164 AppKit 2022.7) of 2023-08-08</p> <p>Emacs 30.1 I got from: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://emacsformacosx.com/">https://emacsformacosx.com/</a><br> (I wish I knew who that entity is. I wonder if it has malware.)<br> GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin18.7.0, NS appkit-1671.60 Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G9323)) of 2025-02-24</p> <p>Is there an easy way to tell what compiler options were used on these builds? (Maybe some emacs command will tell me?)</p> <p><br> </p> </body> </html> --------------xVNK4i0rOApmnUD0jBGNU30M--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#77160
; Package emacs
.
Full text available.Received: (at 77160) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Mar 2025 22:32:44 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 21 18:32:44 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39913 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tvkux-00081X-UM for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Mar 2025 18:32:44 -0400 Received: from mail-ua1-x929.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::929]:44485) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <shipmints@HIDDEN>) id 1tvkuv-00081C-Ne for 77160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Mar 2025 18:32:42 -0400 Received: by mail-ua1-x929.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-86dddba7e0eso1174628241.1 for <77160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 21 Mar 2025 15:32:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1742596356; x=1743201156; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=6QB6V2KDvPfW3+NkwWEBRsvAGpcfD7T04JOA0c/EnAA=; b=nLy2ayyA9E8FAE8/1kO5jxZuBYJSQYbjizf6Tk4SfUNvB8TnT+RSfMXGA9JfqR00Vc oyLZA50DhinDgy8oa5P3ICdGYKjWR2CoDUm3qwmQ9xbBpmnd6kiGh1n3bPqwA2MQ4AiS 5Z0Bz5/ta2TjignUcwlsjJr1QLEaAvgjAGJooHj3UydH3x1dDCJ/8DbmOmkA8fAQ9m/E nIC4LHEQKNYO5RzWUzv/qs/OI075XZIt+03R2yKY9XjbPcGHiZuHruS/N3LDXMoeE/uT YlUo6Pj6OBLZ5zIQtsIg7LdO6WMPSU8AxRPlQk1JfI7AnnEyVZPIJEi6btPQmxixpYeB +TBA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1742596356; x=1743201156; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=6QB6V2KDvPfW3+NkwWEBRsvAGpcfD7T04JOA0c/EnAA=; b=omPWUqmkdt+mTTaivlYyk2YmLlR2xuBJVFwGdsde7TXaz+5cO0DnQPTKViFf5YNhBE WSA1jbQR9PRmVmt/YfiRrzz0J4DP9XQG9iy4gZGu8fJIx01nedJQ3gBp0vDJJBZqgalG cWRH8l7f1Idxv5jd7rP5RtWq4jPQeXxSgOFKQfn/JoM0gi3fvcmxDm5nvluC/p7Za6aF 3Ild1h2rYLXwnAqcZl+gNDcKKUjACYY27x5I6UQRKyL5l7oiVGDxtOPNOqbYo7K6UyfN SaK6rFVbXdpv5LsYEhAlYbsNSSpJjZCIKT7GYMLsfcmFQ1DEZu4mdY6QhHhhLxnmglpv NNQw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yytl8g5EU5J1gUE3b7A9cORK96Y7NAkCZwjB/Sjtb/FtPwbasMm zUqD4rBaxcyUsDvfs3V0v8MCyso8MTrJ1p70Ww5ftd2GLdRCh5FzbwCZ4sayw2/FUy8i5WltPet MFZ4CLLekhf7BWNROv5PsC6JAfQDPzA== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnct05irNSLMAWHJGdxILAxHqt/S1g8IlLqGiLenZkong6oFEwcv1mb4lzDFymaR cDLZIQiqLVlSJ+w19LCQDIM1SMT3qxQt7p9D0YVGzy5hqbgtjfXwylGfoIzB8cpLqjcdvakJiF+ d0nqF+GGk0gqLceEkIndd+/0f1oQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IF0lNpyaEEf5OIgJySqLhK5AsCQb503LxMhC+ns4PhB105gLdZEVdwp4Vy3U7TP5syU0pTB7PgFl/i9FQ4lnRM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:570c:b0:4bd:22d5:fbd7 with SMTP id ada2fe7eead31-4c50d4f1e86mr5228552137.11.1742596355939; Fri, 21 Mar 2025 15:32:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <96951858-4ff4-4f8a-bdd1-ec417bca6c42@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbq3X+=R_f5RA0Vw+MVqT5o_WU9RLFbiW3k6Ck7kdjCMdw@HIDDEN> <c9eaba94-ab94-43a1-8a54-b61fdfe9979c@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <c9eaba94-ab94-43a1-8a54-b61fdfe9979c@HIDDEN> From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2025 18:32:24 -0400 X-Gm-Features: AQ5f1Jo5ZqAbkwacLJVPPVIrUiwVjrUnj1m7JBuUkZ6tgJQ2EBPICEdnt9bvvZ8 Message-ID: <CAN+1Hbpzh6t6brZ3QRwm3V5Du3aB3ynELFpj-O63jHJufjXeFQ@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#77160: raising hell (frames) To: Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c865d70630e1d4f6" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 77160 Cc: 77160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --000000000000c865d70630e1d4f6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 6:16=E2=80=AFPM Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN>= wrote: > Yes, I forgot to say: This is all about fullscreen frames. > > You never use them. I use fullscreen exclusively, for Emacs. > > When I am in Emacs (which is all day every day), I just want Emacs in > front of me. No menu bars, titlebars. or anything! > > :) > > Firefox does the stupid effect in full screen mode, too, turns out. > So we can't look there for the answer. > > I don't think the correct solution is to change a setting on the OS, > since railwaycat Emacs does the right thing without external adjustments. > > This bug is in fact what has kept me on his hacked Emacs all these > years. But due to other bugs I have been forced to upgrade to Emacs 30, > and I don't think he's going to update from 29. > Looking at nsfns and nsterm 29.4 vs. 30.1 I don't see anything that stands out. Where did you get your 29.4 and 30.1 builds? --000000000000c865d70630e1d4f6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon= t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">= On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 6:16=E2=80=AFPM Christopher Stacy <<a href=3D"ma= ilto:cstacy@HIDDEN">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:</span></div></div><div= class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo= te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204= );padding-left:1ex">Yes, I forgot to say: This is all about fullscreen fram= es.<br> <br> You never use them. I use fullscreen exclusively, for Emacs.<br> <br> When I am in Emacs (which is all day every day), I just want Emacs in <br> front of me. No menu bars, titlebars. or anything!<br> <br> :)<br> <br> Firefox does the stupid effect in full screen mode, too, turns out.<br> So we can't look there for the answer.<br> <br> I don't think the correct solution is to change a setting on the OS, <b= r> since railwaycat Emacs does the right thing without external adjustments.<b= r> <br> This bug is in fact what has kept me on his hacked Emacs all these <br> years. But due to other bugs I have been forced to upgrade to Emacs 30, <br= > and I don't think he's going to update from 29.<br></blockquote><di= v><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">Lo= oking at nsfns=C2=A0and nsterm 29.4 vs. 30.1 I don't see anything that = stands out.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospac= e"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">W= here did you get your 29.4 and 30.1 builds?</div></div></div> --000000000000c865d70630e1d4f6--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#77160
; Package emacs
.
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[108.28.162.65]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 6a1803df08f44-6eb3efdbe1fsm15592666d6.109.2025.03.21.15.16.45 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Mar 2025 15:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <c9eaba94-ab94-43a1-8a54-b61fdfe9979c@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2025 18:16:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: bug#77160: raising hell (frames) To: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN> References: <96951858-4ff4-4f8a-bdd1-ec417bca6c42@HIDDEN> <CAN+1Hbq3X+=R_f5RA0Vw+MVqT5o_WU9RLFbiW3k6Ck7kdjCMdw@HIDDEN> From: Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <CAN+1Hbq3X+=R_f5RA0Vw+MVqT5o_WU9RLFbiW3k6Ck7kdjCMdw@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 77160 Cc: 77160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Yes, I forgot to say: This is all about fullscreen frames. You never use them. I use fullscreen exclusively, for Emacs. When I am in Emacs (which is all day every day), I just want Emacs in front of me. No menu bars, titlebars. or anything! :) Firefox does the stupid effect in full screen mode, too, turns out. So we can't look there for the answer. I don't think the correct solution is to change a setting on the OS, since railwaycat Emacs does the right thing without external adjustments. This bug is in fact what has kept me on his hacked Emacs all these years. But due to other bugs I have been forced to upgrade to Emacs 30, and I don't think he's going to update from 29.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#77160
; Package emacs
.
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The effect happens on > some other applications, not just Emacs. But I think Emacs may be > requesting it. > > The railwaycat Cocoa port > (https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport) does not do the > effect. More importantly, the (latest) Firefox does not do the effect. > When I press "cmd-`" on both those applications, I get what I expect. No > effect, no flicker, no delay --- I am instantly in the other window. > > To be able to use Emacs 30.1 which has the effect, I went into the MacOS > control panel and under Accessibility, enabled "Reduce Motion". This > replaces the 2 second (!!!) sliding doors with a 1/2 second fader > effect. That is still too slow and intrusive for doing eyeball > source-compare by switching frames. > > I will note that regular Emacs on Linux also has an effect: the window > manager does (in my case) the card-flipping effect. I don't use Linux > very much, but it would be nice to get rid of this on that platform as > well. No idea what Windows does these days, but 15 years ago when I last > booted that OS, there was no effect when switching Emacs frames. > > I have no idea how any of this works, but I speculate that either (a) > the application requests an effect (perhaps that's the default) to the > window manager; or (b) Firefox is coded to the older window system, > which doesn't do these effects. Either way, it is definitely possible to > control this and make all effects go away. Somehow. > > So I am requesting the ability for Emacs to turn the effects off. > For MacOS, ideally for all platforms, ideally a Lisp variable at runtime. > If you wanted to get fancy it could be a frame property. > i can easily imagine setting it on only some frames, as I use frames for > a variety of purposes. > I can compile Emacs if that's what I have to do, to test a patch or to > set a compile-time option. I will gladly test this if anyone will hack it= . > > Thank You for any clues and hacks! > I use Monterey with 29.4, 30.1, 31/master and I never see any such animations (which I consider childish, like emojis). I also never see such things on Linux. The code for Emacs makes no explicit requests that I can discern. I'm guessing you have installed something else on your system or have some other setting that is interfering. Or... Are you running "full screen" windows? I never use those (only "maximized" in Emacs parlance) so it is possible what you are observing is something related to switching among full-screen frames. Disable Mission Control and Spaces and see what happens. --000000000000ccedfe0630e15710 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon= t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">= On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 5:36=E2=80=AFPM Christopher Stacy <<a href=3D"ma= ilto:cstacy@HIDDEN">cstacy@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:</span></div></div><div= class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo= te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204= );padding-left:1ex">In Emacs 30.1 on MacOS Monterey:<br> <br> I am used to the switching of frames being seamless and instant, with no <b= r> special effects.<br> <br> At some point, MacOS started doing this horrible sliding doors animation <b= r> when switching frames (window manager windows). The effect happens on <br> some other applications, not just Emacs. But I think Emacs may be <br> requesting it.<br> <br> The railwaycat Cocoa port <br> (<a href=3D"https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport" rel=3D"nor= eferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacp= ort</a>) does not do the <br> effect. More importantly, the (latest) Firefox does not do the effect.=C2= =A0 <br> When I press "cmd-`" on both those applications, I get what I exp= ect. No <br> effect, no flicker, no delay --- I am instantly in the other window.<br> <br> To be able to use Emacs 30.1 which has the effect, I went into the MacOS <b= r> control panel and under Accessibility, enabled "Reduce Motion". T= his <br> replaces the 2 second (!!!) sliding doors with a 1/2 second fader <br> effect. That is still too slow and intrusive for doing eyeball <br> source-compare by switching frames.<br> <br> I will note that regular Emacs on Linux also has an effect: the window <br> manager does (in my case) the card-flipping effect. I don't use Linux <= br> very much, but it would be nice to get rid of this on that platform as <br> well. No idea what Windows does these days, but 15 years ago when I last <b= r> booted that OS, there was no effect when switching Emacs frames.<br> <br> I have no idea how any of this works, but I speculate that either (a) <br> the application requests an effect (perhaps that's the default) to the = <br> window manager; or (b) Firefox is coded to the older window system, <br> which doesn't do these effects. Either way, it is definitely possible t= o <br> control this and make all effects go away. Somehow.<br> <br> So I am requesting the ability for Emacs to turn the effects off.<br> For MacOS, ideally for all platforms, ideally a Lisp variable at runtime.<b= r> If you wanted to get fancy it could be a frame property.<br> i can easily imagine setting it on only some frames, as I use frames for <b= r> a variety of purposes.<br> I can compile Emacs if that's what I have to do, to test a patch or to = <br> set a compile-time option. I will gladly test this if anyone will hack it.<= br> <br> Thank You for any clues and hacks!<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div clas= s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">I use Monterey with 29.= 4, 30.1, 31/master and I never see any such animations (which I consider ch= ildish, like emojis).=C2=A0 I also never see such things on Linux.=C2=A0 Th= e code for Emacs makes no explicit requests that I can discern.=C2=A0 I'= ;m guessing you have installed something else on your system or have some o= ther setting that is interfering.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style= =3D"font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"= font-family:monospace">Or...</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon= t-family:monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa= mily:monospace">Are you running "full screen" windows?=C2=A0 I ne= ver use those (only "maximized" in Emacs parlance) so it is possi= ble what you are observing is something related to switching among full-scr= een frames.=C2=A0 Disable Mission Control and Spaces and see what happens.<= /div></div></div> --000000000000ccedfe0630e15710--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#77160
; Package emacs
.
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[108.28.162.65]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 6a1803df08f44-6eb3ef0efe4sm15484276d6.21.2025.03.21.14.35.36 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Mar 2025 14:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <96951858-4ff4-4f8a-bdd1-ec417bca6c42@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2025 17:35:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN From: Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US Subject: raising hell (frames) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2d; envelope-from=cstacy@HIDDEN; helo=mail-qv1-xf2d.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) In Emacs 30.1 on MacOS Monterey: I am used to the switching of frames being seamless and instant, with no special effects. At some point, MacOS started doing this horrible sliding doors animation when switching frames (window manager windows). The effect happens on some other applications, not just Emacs. But I think Emacs may be requesting it. The railwaycat Cocoa port (https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport) does not do the effect. More importantly, the (latest) Firefox does not do the effect. When I press "cmd-`" on both those applications, I get what I expect. No effect, no flicker, no delay --- I am instantly in the other window. To be able to use Emacs 30.1 which has the effect, I went into the MacOS control panel and under Accessibility, enabled "Reduce Motion". This replaces the 2 second (!!!) sliding doors with a 1/2 second fader effect. That is still too slow and intrusive for doing eyeball source-compare by switching frames. I will note that regular Emacs on Linux also has an effect: the window manager does (in my case) the card-flipping effect. I don't use Linux very much, but it would be nice to get rid of this on that platform as well. No idea what Windows does these days, but 15 years ago when I last booted that OS, there was no effect when switching Emacs frames. I have no idea how any of this works, but I speculate that either (a) the application requests an effect (perhaps that's the default) to the window manager; or (b) Firefox is coded to the older window system, which doesn't do these effects. Either way, it is definitely possible to control this and make all effects go away. Somehow. So I am requesting the ability for Emacs to turn the effects off. For MacOS, ideally for all platforms, ideally a Lisp variable at runtime. If you wanted to get fancy it could be a frame property. i can easily imagine setting it on only some frames, as I use frames for a variety of purposes. I can compile Emacs if that's what I have to do, to test a patch or to set a compile-time option. I will gladly test this if anyone will hack it. Thank You for any clues and hacks!
Christopher Stacy <cstacy@HIDDEN>
:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#77160
; Package emacs
.
Full text available.
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