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Subject: bug#77917: 31.0.50; [PATCH] Stop using the "stop" sign for all warning levels
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Dear maintainers,

The *Warnings* buffer uses the same "stop" sign for "warning" and
"error" level warnings. This makes it hard to quickly scan the buffer
for actual errors.

I attach a patch that uses a different icon for "warning" than for
"error" or "emergency".

All the best,
Protesilaos (or simply "Prot")
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From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Protesilaos Stavrou <prot@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#77917: Acknowledgement (31.0.50; [PATCH] Stop using the
 "stop" sign for all warning levels)
Message-ID: <handler.77917.B.174504746921455.ack <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
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Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#77917: 31.0.50; [PATCH] Stop using the "stop" sign for all warning levels
Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2025 11:29:16 +0300
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2025 08:14:00 +0300
> From: Protesilaos Stavrou <prot@HIDDEN>
> 
> The *Warnings* buffer uses the same "stop" sign for "warning" and
> "error" level warnings. This makes it hard to quickly scan the buffer
> for actual errors.

The sign is not for Warning or Error, it's for _disabling_ the
message.  That's why it's the same sign.

Why can't one search by using the text, not the sign?

> I attach a patch that uses a different icon for "warning" than for
> "error" or "emergency".

That's wrong, IMO, see above.

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#77917: 31.0.50; [PATCH] Stop using the "stop" sign for all warning levels
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On 2025-04-19 11:29, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2025 08:14:00 +0300
>> From: Protesilaos Stavrou <prot@HIDDEN>
>> 
>> The *Warnings* buffer uses the same "stop" sign for "warning" and
>> "error" level warnings. This makes it hard to quickly scan the buffer
>> for actual errors.
> 
> The sign is not for Warning or Error, it's for _disabling_ the
> message.  That's why it's the same sign.
> 
> Why can't one search by using the text, not the sign?
> 
>> I attach a patch that uses a different icon for "warning" than for
>> "error" or "emergency".
> 
> That's wrong, IMO, see above.

I see, thank you!

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Subject: bug#77917: 31.0.50; [PATCH] Stop using the "stop" sign for all warning levels
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

> The sign is not for Warning or Error, it's for _disabling_ the
> message.  That's why it's the same sign.

This will be confusing Emacs users *forever*, IMO.

You keep saying we should wait until people get used to these "buttons",
but that is not a good idea.  If nobody else, some new users will always
struggle, as the design of these buttons is inherently flawed.  I know
of no mature software that uses Emojis this way, which makes this UI not
discoverable.  We should *default* to text buttons, e.g.

  [Suppress], [Hide], or [Disable].

If someone likes emoticons better than text labels, it should be them to
customize.  We should *default* to standard, battle-proven, and thus
discoverable, UI elements.

Rudy
--=20
"One can begin to reason only when a clear picture has been formed in
the imagination."  --- Walter Warwick Sawyer, Mathematician's Delight,
1943

Rudolf Adamkovi=C4=8D <rudolf@HIDDEN> [he/him]
http://adamkovic.org

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> From: Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf@HIDDEN>
> Cc: 77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2025 01:33:08 +0200
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> > The sign is not for Warning or Error, it's for _disabling_ the
> > message.  That's why it's the same sign.
> 
> This will be confusing Emacs users *forever*, IMO.
> 
> You keep saying we should wait until people get used to these "buttons",
> but that is not a good idea.

That's my opinion, yes.  It's based on a lot of gray hair with user
expectations.  But I also said that people should feel free to ignore
my opinion on this, if they are certain changing the appearance will
produce better results.  So I'm not sure why you are still arguing.

> We should *default* to text buttons, e.g.
> 
>   [Suppress], [Hide], or [Disable].

That still could confuse: suppress what? hide what?

Like I said: there's no clear winner here.

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>> The *Warnings* buffer uses the same "stop" sign for "warning" and
>> "error" level warnings. This makes it hard to quickly scan the buffer
>> for actual errors.
>
> The sign is not for Warning or Error, it's for _disabling_ the
> message.  That's why it's the same sign.

The icon at the beginning of a warning/error is very useful
to help separating one warning/error from another, especially
for many very long multi-line messages.  But the button for
disabling them like [Disable] could be added at the end of messages.

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Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> writes:

>> The sign is not for Warning or Error, it's for _disabling_ the
>> message.  That's why it's the same sign.
>
> The icon at the beginning of a warning/error is very useful
> to help separating one warning/error from another, especially
> for many very long multi-line messages.  But the button for
> disabling them like [Disable] could be added at the end of messages.

+1
I'd also like to add that it is important that [Disable] (or any other
text) is highlighted as a link. This really helps to figure out that one
can interact with that text. The existing "stop" sign lack such indication.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode maintainer,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

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> From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Protesilaos Stavrou
>  <prot@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2025 06:45:02 +0000
> 
> Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> >> The sign is not for Warning or Error, it's for _disabling_ the
> >> message.  That's why it's the same sign.
> >
> > The icon at the beginning of a warning/error is very useful
> > to help separating one warning/error from another, especially
> > for many very long multi-line messages.  But the button for
> > disabling them like [Disable] could be added at the end of messages.
> 
> +1
> I'd also like to add that it is important that [Disable] (or any other
> text) is highlighted as a link. This really helps to figure out that one
> can interact with that text. The existing "stop" sign lack such indication.

Why link and not a button?  The latter would be more self-explanatory,
IMO.

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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

>> +1
>> I'd also like to add that it is important that [Disable] (or any other
>> text) is highlighted as a link. This really helps to figure out that one
>> can interact with that text. The existing "stop" sign lack such indicati=
on.
>
> Why link and not a button?  The latter would be more self-explanatory,
> IMO.

Agree. I just recall it being a link in the past, before =E2=9B=94 was intr=
oduced.

--=20
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode maintainer,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

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[=E0=AE=9E=E0=AE=BE=E0=AE=AF=E0=AE=BF=E0=AE=B1=E0=AF=81 =E0=AE=8F=E0=AE=AA=
=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B0=E0=AE=B2=E0=AF=8D 20, 2025] Juri Linkov wrote:

>>> The *Warnings* buffer uses the same "stop" sign for "warning" and
>>> "error" level warnings. This makes it hard to quickly scan the buffer
>>> for actual errors.
>>
>> The sign is not for Warning or Error, it's for _disabling_ the
>> message.  That's why it's the same sign.
>
> The icon at the beginning of a warning/error is very useful
> to help separating one warning/error from another, especially
> for many very long multi-line messages.  But the button for
> disabling them like [Disable] could be added at the end of messages.

Is my memory failing me, or was there such a button before the entire
emoji thing was added?  I remember using said button to suppress
warnings that would show up in the early days of native compilation.
(This is how I learnt that the emoji could also be used to suppress
warning BTW).

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Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes:

> Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>>> The sign is not for Warning or Error, it's for _disabling_ the
>>> message.  That's why it's the same sign.
>>
>> The icon at the beginning of a warning/error is very useful
>> to help separating one warning/error from another, especially
>> for many very long multi-line messages.  But the button for
>> disabling them like [Disable] could be added at the end of messages.
>
> +1
> I'd also like to add that it is important that [Disable] (or any other
> text) is highlighted as a link. This really helps to figure out that one
> can interact with that text. The existing "stop" sign lack such indication.

FWIW, I think changing the icon to something not meaning "stop" would be
better, and I'd prefer that the button looks like a regular text button.
I think this improvement is worth making now, and possibly even
backporting to emacs-30.  I consider this a usability bug.

I think if we want our users to get used to something like this, let's
at least make it not actively confusing.

My two cents.

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

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Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> writes:

> The icon at the beginning of a warning/error is very useful
> to help separating one warning/error from another, especially
> for many very long multi-line messages.  But the button for
> disabling them like [Disable] could be added at the end of messages.

+1 [Disable], [Suppress], [Hide], or the like.

And as Ihor says, the button should be fontified as such.

Then, nobody will wonder what do to.

Rudy
--=20
"Simplicity is complexity resolved."
--- Constantin Br=C3=A2ncu=C8=99i, 1876-1957

Rudolf Adamkovi=C4=8D <rudolf@HIDDEN> [he/him]
http://adamkovic.org

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--=_4ae990e394de301494cba532bac8f957
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Dear maintainers,

The *Warnings* buffer uses the same "stop" sign for "warning" and
"error" level warnings. This makes it hard to quickly scan the buffer
for actual errors.

I attach a patch that uses a different icon for "warning" than for
"error" or "emergency".

All the best,
Protesilaos (or simply "Prot")
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Date: Sat, 03 May 2025 11:17:31 +0300
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Protesilaos Stavrou <prot@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <b136129ff46beb3042c2c0f905c76798@HIDDEN> (message from
 Protesilaos Stavrou on Sat, 19 Apr 2025 11:55:22 +0300)
Subject: Re: bug#77917: 31.0.50; [PATCH] Stop using the "stop" sign for all
 warning levels
References: <5767c57e5e63e7e25a2f065fdba404cf@HIDDEN>
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> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2025 11:55:22 +0300
> From: Protesilaos Stavrou <prot@HIDDEN>
> Cc: 77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> On 2025-04-19 11:29, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> >> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2025 08:14:00 +0300
> >> From: Protesilaos Stavrou <prot@HIDDEN>
> >> 
> >> The *Warnings* buffer uses the same "stop" sign for "warning" and
> >> "error" level warnings. This makes it hard to quickly scan the buffer
> >> for actual errors.
> > 
> > The sign is not for Warning or Error, it's for _disabling_ the
> > message.  That's why it's the same sign.
> > 
> > Why can't one search by using the text, not the sign?
> > 
> >> I attach a patch that uses a different icon for "warning" than for
> >> "error" or "emergency".
> > 
> > That's wrong, IMO, see above.
> 
> I see, thank you!

No further comments, so I'm now closing this bug.


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Subject: bug#77917: closed (Re: bug#77917: 31.0.50; [PATCH] Stop using the
 "stop" sign for all warning levels)
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Your bug report

#77917: 31.0.50; [PATCH] Stop using the "stop" sign for all warning levels

which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed.

The explanation is attached below, along with your original report.
If you require more details, please reply to 77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org.

--=20
77917: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D77917
GNU Bug Tracking System
Contact help-debbugs@HIDDEN with problems

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To: Protesilaos Stavrou <prot@HIDDEN>
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Subject: Re: bug#77917: 31.0.50; [PATCH] Stop using the "stop" sign for all
 warning levels
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> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2025 11:55:22 +0300
> From: Protesilaos Stavrou <prot@HIDDEN>
> Cc: 77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> On 2025-04-19 11:29, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> >> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2025 08:14:00 +0300
> >> From: Protesilaos Stavrou <prot@HIDDEN>
> >> 
> >> The *Warnings* buffer uses the same "stop" sign for "warning" and
> >> "error" level warnings. This makes it hard to quickly scan the buffer
> >> for actual errors.
> > 
> > The sign is not for Warning or Error, it's for _disabling_ the
> > message.  That's why it's the same sign.
> > 
> > Why can't one search by using the text, not the sign?
> > 
> >> I attach a patch that uses a different icon for "warning" than for
> >> "error" or "emergency".
> > 
> > That's wrong, IMO, see above.
> 
> I see, thank you!

No further comments, so I'm now closing this bug.


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Subject: 31.0.50; [PATCH] Stop using the "stop" sign for all warning levels
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--=_4ae990e394de301494cba532bac8f957
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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 format=flowed

Dear maintainers,

The *Warnings* buffer uses the same "stop" sign for "warning" and
"error" level warnings. This makes it hard to quickly scan the buffer
for actual errors.

I attach a patch that uses a different icon for "warning" than for
"error" or "emergency".

All the best,
Protesilaos (or simply "Prot")
--=_4ae990e394de301494cba532bac8f957
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--=_4ae990e394de301494cba532bac8f957--



------------=_1746260282-18235-1--

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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

>> >> I attach a patch that uses a different icon for "warning" than for
>> >> "error" or "emergency".
>> > 
>> > That's wrong, IMO, see above.
>> 
>> I see, thank you!
>
> No further comments, so I'm now closing this bug.

But there have been alternative suggestions.
Are they all discarded?

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode maintainer,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

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> From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Protesilaos Stavrou <prot@HIDDEN>, 77917-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 03 May 2025 09:08:22 +0000
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> >> >> I attach a patch that uses a different icon for "warning" than for
> >> >> "error" or "emergency".
> >> > 
> >> > That's wrong, IMO, see above.
> >> 
> >> I see, thank you!
> >
> > No further comments, so I'm now closing this bug.
> 
> But there have been alternative suggestions.
> Are they all discarded?

I don't see any need to keep a bug open if no one is working on doing
anything with it.  If there's a suggestion for a change that is
agreed-upon, let's see it.

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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

>> But there have been alternative suggestions.
>> Are they all discarded?
>
> I don't see any need to keep a bug open if no one is working on doing
> anything with it.  If there's a suggestion for a change that is
> agreed-upon, let's see it.

I am probably going a bit off-topic, but I cannot help but wonder how
people looking to contribute to Emacs can find things to work on if
unsolved bugs are closed if they are not immediately worked on.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode maintainer,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

>> But there have been alternative suggestions.
>> Are they all discarded?
>
> ...  If there's a suggestion for a change that is
> agreed-upon, let's see it.

I thought that we converged to using a button, didn't we?
At least, that suggestion was not objected by anyone.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode maintainer,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

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> From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
> Cc: prot@HIDDEN, 77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 03 May 2025 10:27:09 +0000
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> >> But there have been alternative suggestions.
> >> Are they all discarded?
> >
> > I don't see any need to keep a bug open if no one is working on doing
> > anything with it.  If there's a suggestion for a change that is
> > agreed-upon, let's see it.
> 
> I am probably going a bit off-topic, but I cannot help but wonder how
> people looking to contribute to Emacs can find things to work on if
> unsolved bugs are closed if they are not immediately worked on.

Closing a bug doesn't make it invisible.  And reopening a bug is easy.

So I don't really understand these comments.

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> From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
> Cc: prot@HIDDEN, 77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 03 May 2025 10:38:59 +0000
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> >> But there have been alternative suggestions.
> >> Are they all discarded?
> >
> > ...  If there's a suggestion for a change that is
> > agreed-upon, let's see it.
> 
> I thought that we converged to using a button, didn't we?
> At least, that suggestion was not objected by anyone.

I don't see any code changes posted to that effect.  Without a patch,
this leads nowhere.

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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

>> I am probably going a bit off-topic, but I cannot help but wonder how
>> people looking to contribute to Emacs can find things to work on if
>> unsolved bugs are closed if they are not immediately worked on.
>
> Closing a bug doesn't make it invisible.  And reopening a bug is easy.
>
> So I don't really understand these comments.

I vaguely recall that SystemCrafters once claimed that you suggested to
use debbugs tracker to hunt for things that can be fixed.
https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?package=emacs

Won't closing a bug eliminate it from that listing?

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode maintainer,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

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> From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
> Cc: prot@HIDDEN, 77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 03 May 2025 11:18:25 +0000
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> >> I am probably going a bit off-topic, but I cannot help but wonder how
> >> people looking to contribute to Emacs can find things to work on if
> >> unsolved bugs are closed if they are not immediately worked on.
> >
> > Closing a bug doesn't make it invisible.  And reopening a bug is easy.
> >
> > So I don't really understand these comments.
> 
> I vaguely recall that SystemCrafters once claimed that you suggested to
> use debbugs tracker to hunt for things that can be fixed.
> https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?package=emacs
> 
> Won't closing a bug eliminate it from that listing?

Using package=emacs is a bad idea anyway, IME, as it hides some bugs
(for reasons I have never understood).

The Debbugs search at https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/search.cgi certainly
doesn't eliminate such bugs.

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>>>>> On Sat, 03 May 2025 14:17:35 +0300, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> said:

    >> From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
    >> Cc: prot@HIDDEN, 77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
    >> Date: Sat, 03 May 2025 10:38:59 +0000
    >> 
    >> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
    >> 
    >> >> But there have been alternative suggestions.
    >> >> Are they all discarded?
    >> >
    >> > ...  If there's a suggestion for a change that is
    >> > agreed-upon, let's see it.
    >> 
    >> I thought that we converged to using a button, didn't we?
    >> At least, that suggestion was not objected by anyone.

    Eli> I don't see any code changes posted to that effect.  Without a patch,
    Eli> this leads nowhere.

Since I feel guilty about ever suggesting this feature in the first
place, how about (moving it to the end of the line is possible, if desired):

diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el b/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el
index 6c77d57a6ba..3e6128f2511 100644
--- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el
+++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el
@@ -324,8 +324,10 @@ display-warning
               ;; Don't output the button when doing batch compilation
               ;; and similar.
               (unless (or noninteractive (eq type 'bytecomp))
-                (insert (buttonize (icon-string 'warnings-suppress)
-                                   #'warnings-suppress type)
+                (insert (buttonize "[Suppress?]"
+                                   #'warnings-suppress
+                                   type
+                                   "Click to suppress this warning type")
                         " "))
 	      (if warning-prefix-function
 		  (setq level-info (funcall warning-prefix-function

Robert
--

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> Since I feel guilty about ever suggesting this feature in the first
> place, how about (moving it to the end of the line is possible, if desired):
>
> @@ -324,8 +324,10 @@ display-warning
>                ;; Don't output the button when doing batch compilation
>                ;; and similar.
>                (unless (or noninteractive (eq type 'bytecomp))
> -                (insert (buttonize (icon-string 'warnings-suppress)
> -                                   #'warnings-suppress type)
> +                (insert (buttonize "[Suppress?]"
> +                                   #'warnings-suppress
> +                                   type
> +                                   "Click to suppress this warning type")

The current icon at the beginning of the line helps
to direct user's attention to the warning.

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Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> writes:

>> -                (insert (buttonize (icon-string 'warnings-suppress)
>> -                                   #'warnings-suppress type)
>> +                (insert (buttonize "[Suppress?]"
>> +                                   #'warnings-suppress
>> +                                   type
>> +                                   "Click to suppress this warning type")
>
> The current icon at the beginning of the line helps
> to direct user's attention to the warning.

Then, what about

+                (insert (buttonize (concat (icon-string 'warnings-suppress) " [Suppress?]")
+                                   #'warnings-suppress
+                                   type
+                                   "Click to suppress this warning type")

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode maintainer,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

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>>> -                (insert (buttonize (icon-string 'warnings-suppress)
>>> -                                   #'warnings-suppress type)
>>> +                (insert (buttonize "[Suppress?]"
>>> +                                   #'warnings-suppress
>>> +                                   type
>>> +                                   "Click to suppress this warning type")
>>
>> The current icon at the beginning of the line helps
>> to direct user's attention to the warning.
>
> Then, what about
>
> +                (insert (buttonize (concat (icon-string 'warnings-suppress) " [Suppress?]")
> +                                   #'warnings-suppress
> +                                   type
> +                                   "Click to suppress this warning type")

This adds too much visual clutter to users who don't need to click this button.
A better place for this button would be at the end.

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Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> writes:

>> Then, what about
>>
>> +                (insert (buttonize (concat (icon-string 'warnings-suppress) " [Suppress?]")
>> +                                   #'warnings-suppress
>> +                                   type
>> +                                   "Click to suppress this warning type")
>
> This adds too much visual clutter to users who don't need to click this button.
> A better place for this button would be at the end.

Then, maybe partially revert 0db604a9149, resurrecting

-              ;; Don't output the buttons when doing batch compilation
-              ;; and similar.
-              (unless (or noninteractive (eq type 'bytecomp))
-                (insert " ")
-                (insert-button "Disable showing"
-                               'type 'warning-suppress-warning
-                               'warning-type type)
-                (insert " ")
-                (insert-button "Disable logging"
-                               'type 'warning-suppress-log-warning

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode maintainer,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

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> From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>,
>  77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, prot@HIDDEN
> Date: Mon, 05 May 2025 16:43:17 +0000
> 
> Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> >> -                (insert (buttonize (icon-string 'warnings-suppress)
> >> -                                   #'warnings-suppress type)
> >> +                (insert (buttonize "[Suppress?]"
> >> +                                   #'warnings-suppress
> >> +                                   type
> >> +                                   "Click to suppress this warning type")
> >
> > The current icon at the beginning of the line helps
> > to direct user's attention to the warning.
> 
> Then, what about
> 
> +                (insert (buttonize (concat (icon-string 'warnings-suppress) " [Suppress?]")
> +                                   #'warnings-suppress
> +                                   type
> +                                   "Click to suppress this warning type")

May I suggest to look at how other applications handle such
situations, i.e. when a message is shown and the user is given a
capability of disabling it?  Maybe that way we will find
implementation ideas that are both familiar to users and look nicer?

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

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Date: Mon, 05 May 2025 21:52:25 +0300
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>>> Then, what about
>>>
>>> +                (insert (buttonize (concat (icon-string 'warnings-suppress) " [Suppress?]")
>>> +                                   #'warnings-suppress
>>> +                                   type
>>> +                                   "Click to suppress this warning type")
>>
>> This adds too much visual clutter to users who don't need to click this button.
>> A better place for this button would be at the end.
>
> Then, maybe partially revert 0db604a9149, resurrecting
>
> -              ;; Don't output the buttons when doing batch compilation
> -              ;; and similar.
> -              (unless (or noninteractive (eq type 'bytecomp))
> -                (insert " ")
> -                (insert-button "Disable showing"
> -                               'type 'warning-suppress-warning
> -                               'warning-type type)
> -                (insert " ")
> -                (insert-button "Disable logging"
> -                               'type 'warning-suppress-log-warning

Maybe with a smaller font.

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>> Then, what about
>> 
>> +                (insert (buttonize (concat (icon-string 'warnings-suppress) " [Suppress?]")
>> +                                   #'warnings-suppress
>> +                                   type
>> +                                   "Click to suppress this warning type")
>
> May I suggest to look at how other applications handle such
> situations, i.e. when a message is shown and the user is given a
> capability of disabling it?  Maybe that way we will find
> implementation ideas that are both familiar to users and look nicer?

Here is an interesting solution of using the context menu
to suppress warnings:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/32085708/suppress-warnings-in-visual-studio-2015-for-custom-code-analyzers

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>>>>> On Mon, 05 May 2025 21:53:31 +0300, Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> sai=
d:

    >>> Then, what about
    >>>=20
    >>> +                (insert (buttonize (concat (icon-string 'warnings-=
suppress) " [Suppress?]")
    >>> +                                   #'warnings-suppress
    >>> +                                   type
    >>> +                                   "Click to suppress this warning=
 type")
    >>=20
    >> May I suggest to look at how other applications handle such
    >> situations, i.e. when a message is shown and the user is given a
    >> capability of disabling it?  Maybe that way we will find
    >> implementation ideas that are both familiar to users and look nicer?

    Juri> Here is an interesting solution of using the context menu
    Juri> to suppress warnings:

    Juri> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/32085708/suppress-warnings-in=
-visual-studio-2015-for-custom-code-analyzers

I conclude from that that we should use U+26A0 U+FE0F =E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F as=
 the symbol
to insert. Right clicking does not necessarily come easy to Emacs
users, so I still think a text button is needed.

Robert
--=20

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> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>,  Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>,
>   77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  prot@HIDDEN
> Date: Tue, 06 May 2025 09:39:56 +0200
> 
> >>>>> On Mon, 05 May 2025 21:53:31 +0300, Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> said:
> 
>     >>> Then, what about
>     >>> 
>     >>> +                (insert (buttonize (concat (icon-string 'warnings-suppress) " [Suppress?]")
>     >>> +                                   #'warnings-suppress
>     >>> +                                   type
>     >>> +                                   "Click to suppress this warning type")
>     >> 
>     >> May I suggest to look at how other applications handle such
>     >> situations, i.e. when a message is shown and the user is given a
>     >> capability of disabling it?  Maybe that way we will find
>     >> implementation ideas that are both familiar to users and look nicer?
> 
>     Juri> Here is an interesting solution of using the context menu
>     Juri> to suppress warnings:
> 
>     Juri> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/32085708/suppress-warnings-in-visual-studio-2015-for-custom-code-analyzers
> 
> I conclude from that that we should use U+26A0 U+FE0F ⚠️ as the symbol
> to insert.

Really?  So we've just made another full circle back to the beginning?
Where someone said, and I agree, that showing ⚠️ explains itself worse
than the existing symbol, because it could be easily interpreted as
meaning just "Warning".

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On Tue, 06 May 2025 14:29:34 +0300 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:

>> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
>> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>,  Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>,
>>   77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  prot@HIDDEN
>> Date: Tue, 06 May 2025 09:39:56 +0200
>>=20
>> >>>>> On Mon, 05 May 2025 21:53:31 +0300, Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> =
said:
>>=20
>>     >>> Then, what about
>>     >>>=20
>>     >>> + (insert (buttonize (concat (icon-string 'warnings-suppress) "
>>     >>> [Suppress?]")
>>     >>> +                                   #'warnings-suppress
>>     >>> +                                   type
>>     >>> +                                   "Click to suppress this warn=
ing type")
>>     >>=20
>>     >> May I suggest to look at how other applications handle such
>>     >> situations, i.e. when a message is shown and the user is given a
>>     >> capability of disabling it?  Maybe that way we will find
>>     >> implementation ideas that are both familiar to users and look nic=
er?
>>=20
>>     Juri> Here is an interesting solution of using the context menu
>>     Juri> to suppress warnings:
>>=20
>>     Juri> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/32085708/suppress-warnings=
-in-visual-studio-2015-for-custom-code-analyzers
>>=20
>> I conclude from that that we should use U+26A0 U+FE0F =E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F=
 as the symbol
>> to insert.
>
> Really?  So we've just made another full circle back to the beginning?
> Where someone said, and I agree, that showing =E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F explains=
 itself worse
> than the existing symbol, because it could be easily interpreted as
> meaning just "Warning".

What about the character "=E2=84=B9" (#x2139 INFORMATION SOURCE), perhaps w=
ith a
box face attribute, or alternatively as emoji "=E2=84=B9=EF=B8=8F"?  This s=
ign is widely
recognized and I think even invites clicking to see what the information
is (though having an explicit button as well would avoid any
misunderstanding).

Steve Berman

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>>>>> On Tue, 06 May 2025 14:29:34 +0300, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> said:

    Eli> Really?  So we've just made another full circle back to the beginn=
ing?
    Eli> Where someone said, and I agree, that showing =E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F e=
xplains itself worse
    Eli> than the existing symbol, because it could be easily interpreted as
    Eli> meaning just "Warning".

But =E2=9B=94 means "you have done something wrong", at least to some.

How about we just drop the icon completely?

Robert
--=20

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> From: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>,  yantar92@HIDDEN,
>   77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  prot@HIDDEN,  juri@HIDDEN
> Date: Tue, 06 May 2025 14:04:07 +0200
> 
> On Tue, 06 May 2025 14:29:34 +0300 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:
> 
> >> I conclude from that that we should use U+26A0 U+FE0F ⚠️ as the symbol
> >> to insert.
> >
> > Really?  So we've just made another full circle back to the beginning?
> > Where someone said, and I agree, that showing ⚠️ explains itself worse
> > than the existing symbol, because it could be easily interpreted as
> > meaning just "Warning".
> 
> What about the character "ℹ" (#x2139 INFORMATION SOURCE), perhaps with a
> box face attribute, or alternatively as emoji "ℹ️"?  This sign is widely
> recognized and I think even invites clicking to see what the information
> is (though having an explicit button as well would avoid any
> misunderstanding).

If this is recognized widely enough, sure.  But can you point to some
examples of using this for that purpose?

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> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
> Cc: juri@HIDDEN,  yantar92@HIDDEN,  77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
>   prot@HIDDEN
> Date: Tue, 06 May 2025 14:53:49 +0200
> 
> >>>>> On Tue, 06 May 2025 14:29:34 +0300, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> said:
> 
>     Eli> Really?  So we've just made another full circle back to the beginning?
>     Eli> Where someone said, and I agree, that showing ⚠️ explains itself worse
>     Eli> than the existing symbol, because it could be easily interpreted as
>     Eli> meaning just "Warning".
> 
> But ⛔ means "you have done something wrong", at least to some.

Which is why someone suggested to use ✖ or ❌.

> How about we just drop the icon completely?

And go for another circle?  It was you who suggested to go back to am
icon, based on an example of a similar feature posted by Juri.

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 Content preview:  On Tue, 06 May 2025 18:33:48 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>
 From: Stephen Berman >> Cc: Robert Pluim , yantar92@HIDDEN,
 >> 77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, 
 prot@HIDDEN, juri@HIDDEN >> Date: Tue, 06 May 2025 14:04:07
 +0200 >> >> On Tue, 06 May 2025 [...] 
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 Content preview:  On Tue, 06 May 2025 18:33:48 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>
    From: Stephen Berman >> Cc: Robert Pluim , yantar92@HIDDEN, >> 77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
    prot@HIDDEN, juri@HIDDEN >> Date: Tue, 06 May 2025 14:04:07
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On Tue, 06 May 2025 18:33:48 +0300 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:

>> From: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@HIDDEN>
>> Cc: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>,  yantar92@HIDDEN,
>>   77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  prot@HIDDEN,  juri@HIDDEN
>> Date: Tue, 06 May 2025 14:04:07 +0200
>>=20
>> On Tue, 06 May 2025 14:29:34 +0300 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:
>>=20
>> >> I conclude from that that we should use U+26A0 U+FE0F =E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=
=8F as the symbol
>> >> to insert.
>> >
>> > Really?  So we've just made another full circle back to the beginning?
>> > Where someone said, and I agree, that showing =E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F expla=
ins itself worse
>> > than the existing symbol, because it could be easily interpreted as
>> > meaning just "Warning".
>>=20
>> What about the character "=E2=84=B9" (#x2139 INFORMATION SOURCE), perhap=
s with a
>> box face attribute, or alternatively as emoji "=E2=84=B9=EF=B8=8F"?  Thi=
s sign is widely
>> recognized and I think even invites clicking to see what the information
>> is (though having an explicit button as well would avoid any
>> misunderstanding).
>
> If this is recognized widely enough, sure.  But can you point to some
> examples of using this for that purpose?

If you mean an editor using "=E2=84=B9" or "=E2=84=B9=EF=B8=8F" as button t=
o display otherwise
hidden information, then no, I don't know of any such editors (but I
have little acquaintance of editors besides Emacs :).  I have seen "=E2=84=
=B9"
used simply to mark (but not reveal) an informative message; here is an
example of output in the R console:
https://r4ds.hadley.nz/intro.html#the-tidyverse

Steve Berman

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> I conclude from that that we should use U+26A0 U+FE0F ⚠️ as the symbol
> to insert. Right clicking does not necessarily come easy to Emacs
> users, so I still think a text button is needed.

Ok, based on the feedback from everyone here is the patch
that should satisfy all requirements:

diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el b/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el
index 6c77d57a6ba..f3baa019ad2 100644
--- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el
+++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el
@@ -216,7 +216,7 @@ warning-suppress-p
     some-match))
 
 (define-icon warnings-suppress button
-  `((emoji "⛔")
+  `((emoji "⚠️")
     ;; Many MS-Windows console fonts don't have good glyphs for U+25A0.
     (symbol ,(if (and (eq system-type 'windows-nt)
                       (null window-system))
@@ -333,6 +333,14 @@ display-warning
 	      (insert (format (nth 1 level-info)
 			      (format warning-type-format typename))
 		      message)
+              ;; Don't output the buttons when doing batch compilation
+              ;; and similar.
+              (unless (or noninteractive (eq type 'bytecomp))
+                (insert " " (buttonize (propertize
+                                        "[Suppress]" 'face
+                                        '(variable-pitch (:height 0.9)))
+                                       #'warnings-suppress type)
+                        " "))
               (funcall newline)
 	      (when (and warning-fill-prefix
                          (not (string-search "\n" message))

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>>>>> On Tue, 06 May 2025 18:38:44 +0300, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> said:

    >> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
    >> Cc: juri@HIDDEN,  yantar92@HIDDEN,  77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
    >> prot@HIDDEN
    >> Date: Tue, 06 May 2025 14:53:49 +0200
    >>=20
    >> >>>>> On Tue, 06 May 2025 14:29:34 +0300, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN=
g> said:
    >>=20
    Eli> Really?  So we've just made another full circle back to the beginn=
ing?
    Eli> Where someone said, and I agree, that showing =E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F e=
xplains itself worse
    Eli> than the existing symbol, because it could be easily interpreted as
    Eli> meaning just "Warning".
    >>=20
    >> But =E2=9B=94 means "you have done something wrong", at least to som=
e.

    Eli> Which is why someone suggested to use =E2=9C=96 or =E2=9D=8C.

OK

    >> How about we just drop the icon completely?

    Eli> And go for another circle?  It was you who suggested to go back to=
 am
    Eli> icon, based on an example of a similar feature posted by Juri.

OK, in that case we need the right icon, and a text button at the end
of the warning message.

Robert
--=20

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>>>>> On Wed, 07 May 2025 09:57:11 +0300, Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> sai=
d:

    >> I conclude from that that we should use U+26A0 U+FE0F =E2=9A=A0=EF=
=B8=8F as the symbol
    >> to insert. Right clicking does not necessarily come easy to Emacs
    >> users, so I still think a text button is needed.

    Juri> Ok, based on the feedback from everyone here is the patch
    Juri> that should satisfy all requirements:

    Juri> diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el b/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnin=
gs.el
    Juri> index 6c77d57a6ba..f3baa019ad2 100644
    Juri> --- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el
    Juri> +++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el
    Juri> @@ -216,7 +216,7 @@ warning-suppress-p
    Juri>      some-match))
    Juri>  
    Juri>  (define-icon warnings-suppress button
    Juri> -  `((emoji "=E2=9B=94")
    Juri> +  `((emoji "=E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F")
    Juri>      ;; Many MS-Windows console fonts don't have good glyphs for =
U+25A0.
    Juri>      (symbol ,(if (and (eq system-type 'windows-nt)
    Juri>                        (null window-system))
    Juri> @@ -333,6 +333,14 @@ display-warning
    Juri>  	      (insert (format (nth 1 level-info)
    Juri>  			      (format warning-type-format typename))
    Juri>  		      message)
    Juri> +              ;; Don't output the buttons when doing batch compi=
lation
    Juri> +              ;; and similar.
    Juri> +              (unless (or noninteractive (eq type 'bytecomp))
    Juri> +                (insert " " (buttonize (propertize
    Juri> +                                        "[Suppress]" 'face
    Juri> +                                        '(variable-pitch (:heigh=
t 0.9)))
    Juri> +                                       #'warnings-suppress type)
    Juri> +                        " "))
    Juri>                (funcall newline)
    Juri>  	      (when (and warning-fill-prefix
    Juri>                           (not (string-search "\n" message))

I don=CA=BCt think we need the trailing space, but the rest looks good to
me. I don=CA=BCt mind if we end up preferring =E2=9D=8C, but =E2=9B=94 is r=
ight out.

Robert
--=20

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> I donʼt think we need the trailing space, but the rest looks good to
> me.

I tried without the trailing space, but then an underline is added
at the end.  Very strange effect.  Maybe a bug?

> I donʼt mind if we end up preferring ❌, but ⛔ is right out.

Everyone uses ⚠️ for warnings.

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>>>>> On Wed, 07 May 2025 19:16:46 +0300, Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> sai=
d:

    >> I don=CA=BCt think we need the trailing space, but the rest looks go=
od to
    >> me.

    Juri> I tried without the trailing space, but then an underline is added
    Juri> at the end.  Very strange effect.  Maybe a bug?

Some interaction between the `button' or `link' face from the
`buttonize' with the :height spec?

    >> I don=CA=BCt mind if we end up preferring =E2=9D=8C, but =E2=9B=94 i=
s right out.

    Juri> Everyone uses =E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F for warnings.

OK by me.

Robert
--=20

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>     >> I donʼt think we need the trailing space, but the rest looks good to
>     >> me.
>
>     Juri> I tried without the trailing space, but then an underline is added
>     Juri> at the end.  Very strange effect.  Maybe a bug?
>
> Some interaction between the `button' or `link' face from the
> `buttonize' with the :height spec?

Very interesting: 'display-warning' uses the function 'newline'
that basically does such a trick:

  (let ((last-command-event ?\n))
   (self-insert-command 1))

But the problem is that 'self-insert-command' inherits
the button text properties to the newline.  And with
these text properties the newline is displayed as
an underlined space character.

I don't know the reason why 'display-warning' uses 'newline',
but after replacing 'newline' with a plain "\n"
it is displayed correctly:

diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el b/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el
index 6c77d57a6ba..9714abea213 100644
--- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el
+++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el
@@ -216,7 +216,7 @@ warning-suppress-p
     some-match))
 
 (define-icon warnings-suppress button
-  `((emoji "⛔")
+  `((emoji "⚠️")
     ;; Many MS-Windows console fonts don't have good glyphs for U+25A0.
     (symbol ,(if (and (eq system-type 'windows-nt)
                       (null window-system))
@@ -333,7 +333,14 @@ display-warning
 	      (insert (format (nth 1 level-info)
 			      (format warning-type-format typename))
 		      message)
-              (funcall newline)
+              ;; Don't output the buttons when doing batch compilation
+              ;; and similar.
+              (unless (or noninteractive (eq type 'bytecomp))
+                (insert " " (buttonize (propertize
+                                        "[Suppress]" 'face
+                                        '(variable-pitch (:height 0.9)))
+                                       #'warnings-suppress type)
+                        "\n"))
 	      (when (and warning-fill-prefix
                          (not (string-search "\n" message))
                          (not noninteractive))

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> On May 7, 2025, at 10:22=E2=80=AFAM, Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> =
wrote:
>=20
>>>> I don=CA=BCt think we need the trailing space, but the rest looks =
good to
>>>> me.
>>=20
>>    Juri> I tried without the trailing space, but then an underline is =
added
>>    Juri> at the end.  Very strange effect.  Maybe a bug?
>>=20
>> Some interaction between the `button' or `link' face from the
>> `buttonize' with the :height spec?
>=20
> Very interesting: 'display-warning' uses the function 'newline'
> that basically does such a trick:
>=20
>  (let ((last-command-event ?\n))
>   (self-insert-command 1))
>=20
> But the problem is that 'self-insert-command' inherits
> the button text properties to the newline.  And with
> these text properties the newline is displayed as
> an underlined space character.
>=20
> I don't know the reason why 'display-warning' uses 'newline',
> but after replacing 'newline' with a plain "\n"
> it is displayed correctly:
>=20
> diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el b/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el
> index 6c77d57a6ba..9714abea213 100644
> --- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el
> +++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el
> @@ -216,7 +216,7 @@ warning-suppress-p
>     some-match))
>=20
> (define-icon warnings-suppress button
> -  `((emoji "=E2=9B=94")
> +  `((emoji "=E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F")
>     ;; Many MS-Windows console fonts don't have good glyphs for =
U+25A0.
>     (symbol ,(if (and (eq system-type 'windows-nt)
>                       (null window-system))
> @@ -333,7 +333,14 @@ display-warning
>      (insert (format (nth 1 level-info)
>      (format warning-type-format typename))
>      message)
> -              (funcall newline)
> +              ;; Don't output the buttons when doing batch =
compilation
> +              ;; and similar.
> +              (unless (or noninteractive (eq type 'bytecomp))
> +                (insert " " (buttonize (propertize
> +                                        "[Suppress]" 'face
> +                                        '(variable-pitch (:height =
0.9)))
> +                                       #'warnings-suppress type)
> +                        "\n"))
>      (when (and warning-fill-prefix
>                          (not (string-search "\n" message))
>                          (not noninteractive))

Using =E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F to mean =E2=80=9Csuppress=E2=80=9D feels wrong. =
Maybe just display the =E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F or =E2=9B=94 in front of the =
warning, and append the suppress button at the end of the message? (But =
doesn=E2=80=99t the warning buffer only display warning?)

Also can we replace the =E2=96=A0 symbol with =E2=8A=96 or =E2=9B=92? =
The =E2=96=A0 symbol is very confusing.

Yuan=

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> On May 7, 2025, at 10:10=E2=80=AFPM, Yuan Fu <casouri@HIDDEN> =
wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On May 7, 2025, at 10:22=E2=80=AFAM, Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> =
wrote:
>>=20
>>>>> I don=CA=BCt think we need the trailing space, but the rest looks =
good to
>>>>> me.
>>>=20
>>>   Juri> I tried without the trailing space, but then an underline is =
added
>>>   Juri> at the end.  Very strange effect.  Maybe a bug?
>>>=20
>>> Some interaction between the `button' or `link' face from the
>>> `buttonize' with the :height spec?
>>=20
>> Very interesting: 'display-warning' uses the function 'newline'
>> that basically does such a trick:
>>=20
>> (let ((last-command-event ?\n))
>>  (self-insert-command 1))
>>=20
>> But the problem is that 'self-insert-command' inherits
>> the button text properties to the newline.  And with
>> these text properties the newline is displayed as
>> an underlined space character.
>>=20
>> I don't know the reason why 'display-warning' uses 'newline',
>> but after replacing 'newline' with a plain "\n"
>> it is displayed correctly:
>>=20
>> diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el =
b/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el
>> index 6c77d57a6ba..9714abea213 100644
>> --- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el
>> +++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el
>> @@ -216,7 +216,7 @@ warning-suppress-p
>>    some-match))
>>=20
>> (define-icon warnings-suppress button
>> -  `((emoji "=E2=9B=94")
>> +  `((emoji "=E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F")
>>    ;; Many MS-Windows console fonts don't have good glyphs for =
U+25A0.
>>    (symbol ,(if (and (eq system-type 'windows-nt)
>>                      (null window-system))
>> @@ -333,7 +333,14 @@ display-warning
>>     (insert (format (nth 1 level-info)
>>     (format warning-type-format typename))
>>     message)
>> -              (funcall newline)
>> +              ;; Don't output the buttons when doing batch =
compilation
>> +              ;; and similar.
>> +              (unless (or noninteractive (eq type 'bytecomp))
>> +                (insert " " (buttonize (propertize
>> +                                        "[Suppress]" 'face
>> +                                        '(variable-pitch (:height =
0.9)))
>> +                                       #'warnings-suppress type)
>> +                        "\n"))
>>     (when (and warning-fill-prefix
>>                         (not (string-search "\n" message))
>>                         (not noninteractive))
>=20
> Using =E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F to mean =E2=80=9Csuppress=E2=80=9D feels =
wrong. Maybe just display the =E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F or =E2=9B=94 in front =
of the warning, and append the suppress button at the end of the =
message? (But doesn=E2=80=99t the warning buffer only display warning?)

Re-reading your patch, I realized your patch does exactly what I =
described. Maybe we should rename the icon so it doesn=E2=80=99t say =
suppress.

And for the symbol we could use =E2=9A=A0.

Yuan=

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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
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>>> (define-icon warnings-suppress button
>>> -  `((emoji "⛔")
>>> +  `((emoji "⚠️")
> [...]
> Re-reading your patch, I realized your patch does exactly what
> I described.  Maybe we should rename the icon so it doesn’t say
> suppress.

Unfortunately, renaming an icon is not so simple.
First we need to mark an old name as obsolete
because very likely many users already customized it
with 'M-x customize-icon RET warnings-suppress RET'
that adds to the custom file a setting like this:

  (custom-set-icons
    '(warnings-suppress ((emoji "⚠️") (symbol " ■ ") (text " stop "))))

And I even don't know how to make it obsolete.
For example, there is 'define-obsolete-face-alias',
but no something like 'define-obsolete-icon-alias'.

> And for the symbol we could use ⚠.

Thanks.  I tried to find a suitable character for the symbol,
but didn't realize this could be used for it.

Here is the patch that also updates the docstring:


--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/x-diff; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline; filename=warnings-suppress.patch
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el b/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el
index 6c77d57a6ba..54a35fee3a9 100644
--- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el
+++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el
@@ -216,15 +216,15 @@ warning-suppress-p
     some-match))
 
 (define-icon warnings-suppress button
-  `((emoji "⛔")
-    ;; Many MS-Windows console fonts don't have good glyphs for U+25A0.
+  `((emoji "⚠️")
+    ;; Many MS-Windows console fonts don't have good glyphs for symbols.
     (symbol ,(if (and (eq system-type 'windows-nt)
                       (null window-system))
                  " » "
-               " ■ "))
-    (text " stop "))
-  "Suppress warnings."
-  :version "29.1"
+               " ⚠ "))
+    (text " warning "))
+  "Indicate and optionally suppress warnings."
+  :version "31.1"
   :help-echo "Click to suppress this warning type")
 
 (defun warnings-suppress (type)
@@ -333,7 +333,16 @@ display-warning
 	      (insert (format (nth 1 level-info)
 			      (format warning-type-format typename))
 		      message)
-              (funcall newline)
+              ;; Don't output the buttons when doing batch compilation
+              ;; and similar.
+              (unless (or noninteractive (eq type 'bytecomp))
+                (insert " " (buttonize (propertize
+                                        "[Suppress]" 'face
+                                        '(variable-pitch (:height 0.9)))
+                                       #'warnings-suppress type)
+                        "\n"))
+              (unless (bolp)
+		(funcall newline))
 	      (when (and warning-fill-prefix
                          (not (string-search "\n" message))
                          (not noninteractive))

--=-=-=--

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> From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>,  Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>,
>   77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>,
>   prot@HIDDEN
> Date: Thu, 08 May 2025 09:45:38 +0300
> 
>  (define-icon warnings-suppress button
> -  `((emoji "⛔")
> -    ;; Many MS-Windows console fonts don't have good glyphs for U+25A0.
> +  `((emoji "⚠️")
> +    ;; Many MS-Windows console fonts don't have good glyphs for symbols.
>      (symbol ,(if (and (eq system-type 'windows-nt)
>                        (null window-system))
>                   " » "
> -               " ■ "))
> -    (text " stop "))
> -  "Suppress warnings."
> -  :version "29.1"
> +               " ⚠ "))
> +    (text " warning "))

Since the 'symbol' value was changed to express "warning" rather than
"suppress", the symbol used for terminals on MS-Windows needs to be
also modified, since the previous one has nothing in common with
"warning".

Also, are you sure that show U+26A0 ⚠ is a good idea for the 'symbol'
preference?  At least on TTY frames, that character has problems
because its glyph is wide, and many terminal emulators have trouble
showing it in an Emacs window.

So I think the 'symbol' alternative still needs work.

Btw, since this icon is called "warning-suppress", did anyone think
about showing a cross or a strike-through over the icon/symbol?
Because using ⚠ as "warning-suppress" is at least strange, IMO.

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>>  (define-icon warnings-suppress button
>> -  `((emoji "⛔")
>> -    ;; Many MS-Windows console fonts don't have good glyphs for U+25A0.
>> +  `((emoji "⚠️")
>> +    ;; Many MS-Windows console fonts don't have good glyphs for symbols.
>>      (symbol ,(if (and (eq system-type 'windows-nt)
>>                        (null window-system))
>>                   " » "
>> -               " ■ "))
>> -    (text " stop "))
>> -  "Suppress warnings."
>> -  :version "29.1"
>> +               " ⚠ "))
>> +    (text " warning "))
>
> Since the 'symbol' value was changed to express "warning" rather than
> "suppress", the symbol used for terminals on MS-Windows needs to be
> also modified, since the previous one has nothing in common with
> "warning".

⚠️ contains an exclamation mark, so the symbol could be just '!' or '!!'
like in flymake's margin/fringe.

> Also, are you sure that show U+26A0 ⚠ is a good idea for the 'symbol'
> preference?  At least on TTY frames, that character has problems
> because its glyph is wide, and many terminal emulators have trouble
> showing it in an Emacs window.

I tried ⚠ on a tty, and it looks very poor, barely recognizable.
So need to find a new symbol.

> Btw, since this icon is called "warning-suppress", did anyone think
> about showing a cross or a strike-through over the icon/symbol?
> Because using ⚠ as "warning-suppress" is at least strange, IMO.

Since the general preference is to have the [Suppress] link at the end,
we need to use a new name "warning" for the icon.

Therefore I retract my patch in favor of Kévin's patch from
https://debbugs.gnu.org/61413#108 that added the new icon "warning"
with a nice svg image.  When installed, it should be tweaked
for further improvements (including FIXME).

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>> Also, are you sure that show U+26A0 ⚠ is a good idea for the 'symbol'
>> preference?  At least on TTY frames, that character has problems
>> because its glyph is wide, and many terminal emulators have trouble
>> showing it in an Emacs window.
>
> I tried ⚠ on a tty, and it looks very poor, barely recognizable.
> So need to find a new symbol.

▲ looks more solid on a tty.

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Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> writes:

>>>>>> On Tue, 06 May 2025 18:38:44 +0300, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> sai=
d:
>
>     >> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
>     >> Cc: juri@HIDDEN,  yantar92@HIDDEN,  77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
>     >> prot@HIDDEN
>     >> Date: Tue, 06 May 2025 14:53:49 +0200
>     >>=20
>     >> >>>>> On Tue, 06 May 2025 14:29:34 +0300, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.=
org> said:
>     >>=20
>     Eli> Really?  So we've just made another full circle back to the begi=
nning?
>     Eli> Where someone said, and I agree, that showing =E2=9A=A0=EF=B8=8F=
 explains itself worse
>     Eli> than the existing symbol, because it could be easily interpreted=
 as
>     Eli> meaning just "Warning".
>     >>=20
>     >> But =E2=9B=94 means "you have done something wrong", at least to s=
ome.
>
>     Eli> Which is why someone suggested to use =E2=9C=96 or =E2=9D=8C.
>
> OK
>
>     >> How about we just drop the icon completely?
>
>     Eli> And go for another circle?  It was you who suggested to go back =
to am
>     Eli> icon, based on an example of a similar feature posted by Juri.
>
> OK, in that case we need the right icon, and a text button at the end
> of the warning message.

In case that can help, I think this is more or less what this patch on
bug#61413 does: (with screenshot)

<https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D61413#108>

Direct link to the patch:
<https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?filename=3D0001-Use-plain-text-f=
or-warning-supression-button.patch;bug=3D61413;msg=3D108;att=3D1>

Screenshot:
<https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?att=3D2;msg=3D108;bug=3D61413;fi=
lename=3DScreenshot_20250223_163540.png>

Similar to Juri's latest patch; in short,

* stop using the "warnings-suppress" icon; keep it for
  backward-compatibility in case there are out-of-tree users,
* insert a new plain "warning" icon (with SVG representation that can
  use the 'warning face),
* add a text button for suppression.

(The main feedback on that patch, IIRC, was that the 'button face looks
too much like a link instead of something like 'custom-button.  Wasn't
sure where to go from there so dropped the ball after that; thank y'all
for picking it back up here)

(There was also a FIXME for a problem that Juri solved in the other
subthread by just inserting "\n" instead of calling 'newline, AFAIU)

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> From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>
> Cc: casouri@HIDDEN,  77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  rpluim@HIDDEN,
>   prot@HIDDEN,  yantar92@HIDDEN
> Date: Thu, 08 May 2025 20:29:35 +0300
> 
> >> Also, are you sure that show U+26A0 ⚠ is a good idea for the 'symbol'
> >> preference?  At least on TTY frames, that character has problems
> >> because its glyph is wide, and many terminal emulators have trouble
> >> showing it in an Emacs window.
> >
> > I tried ⚠ on a tty, and it looks very poor, barely recognizable.
> > So need to find a new symbol.
> 
> ▲ looks more solid on a tty.

But will it be perceived as a warning sign?  It looks just a triangle.

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> From: Kévin Le Gouguec <kevin.legouguec@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>,  yantar92@HIDDEN,
>   77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  prot@HIDDEN,  juri@HIDDEN
> Date: Thu, 08 May 2025 20:53:17 +0200
> 
> In case that can help, I think this is more or less what this patch on
> bug#61413 does: (with screenshot)
> 
> <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=61413#108>
> 
> Direct link to the patch:
> <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?filename=0001-Use-plain-text-for-warning-supression-button.patch;bug=61413;msg=108;att=1>
> 
> Screenshot:
> <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?att=2;msg=108;bug=61413;filename=Screenshot_20250223_163540.png>
> 
> Similar to Juri's latest patch; in short,
> 
> * stop using the "warnings-suppress" icon; keep it for
>   backward-compatibility in case there are out-of-tree users,
> * insert a new plain "warning" icon (with SVG representation that can
>   use the 'warning face),
> * add a text button for suppression.

How about doing that, but without the icon?  The icon is problematic
on TTY frames, and why do we need it, when the text already says
"Warning: SOMETHING"?

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> On May 8, 2025, at 12:10=E2=80=AFPM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> =
wrote:
>=20
>> From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>
>> Cc: casouri@HIDDEN,  77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  rpluim@HIDDEN,
>>  prot@HIDDEN,  yantar92@HIDDEN
>> Date: Thu, 08 May 2025 20:29:35 +0300
>>=20
>>>> Also, are you sure that show U+26A0 =E2=9A=A0 is a good idea for =
the 'symbol'
>>>> preference?  At least on TTY frames, that character has problems
>>>> because its glyph is wide, and many terminal emulators have trouble
>>>> showing it in an Emacs window.
>>>=20
>>> I tried =E2=9A=A0 on a tty, and it looks very poor, barely =
recognizable.
>>> So need to find a new symbol.
>>=20
>> =E2=96=B2 looks more solid on a tty.
>=20
> But will it be perceived as a warning sign?  It looks just a triangle.

My two cents, and feel free to ignore: maybe just use the exclamation =
mark. We don=E2=80=99t have to use a =E2=80=9Cunicode=E2=80=9D symbol =
for the symbol category. =E2=80=9C!=E2=80=9D conveys the idea and is =
well supported.

Yuan=

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Kévin Le Gouguec <kevin.legouguec@HIDDEN> writes:

> Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 06 May 2025 18:38:44 +0300, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> said:
>>
>>     >> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
>>     >> Cc: juri@HIDDEN,  yantar92@HIDDEN,  77917 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
>>     >> prot@HIDDEN
>>     >> Date: Tue, 06 May 2025 14:53:49 +0200
>>     >> 
>>     >> >>>>> On Tue, 06 May 2025 14:29:34 +0300, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> said:
>>     >> 
>>     Eli> Really?  So we've just made another full circle back to the beginning?
>>     Eli> Where someone said, and I agree, that showing ⚠️ explains itself worse
>>     Eli> than the existing symbol, because it could be easily interpreted as
>>     Eli> meaning just "Warning".
>>     >> 
>>     >> But ⛔ means "you have done something wrong", at least to some.
>>
>>     Eli> Which is why someone suggested to use ✖ or ❌.
>>
>> OK
>>
>>     >> How about we just drop the icon completely?
>>
>>     Eli> And go for another circle?  It was you who suggested to go back to am
>>     Eli> icon, based on an example of a similar feature posted by Juri.
>>
>> OK, in that case we need the right icon, and a text button at the end
>> of the warning message.
>
> In case that can help, I think this is more or less what this patch on
> bug#61413 does: (with screenshot)
>
> <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=61413#108>
>
> Direct link to the patch:
> <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?filename=0001-Use-plain-text-for-warning-supression-button.patch;bug=61413;msg=108;att=1>
>
> Screenshot:
> <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?att=2;msg=108;bug=61413;filename=Screenshot_20250223_163540.png>
>
> Similar to Juri's latest patch; in short,
>
> * stop using the "warnings-suppress" icon; keep it for
>   backward-compatibility in case there are out-of-tree users,
> * insert a new plain "warning" icon (with SVG representation that can
>   use the 'warning face),
> * add a text button for suppression.
>
> (The main feedback on that patch, IIRC, was that the 'button face looks
> too much like a link instead of something like 'custom-button.  Wasn't
> sure where to go from there so dropped the ball after that; thank y'all
> for picking it back up here)
>
> (There was also a FIXME for a problem that Juri solved in the other
> subthread by just inserting "\n" instead of calling 'newline, AFAIU)

I'm not sure I'm following all of this, but FWIW, I like ⚠️
as an icon merely to indicate a warning; and while I'm fine
with the text "suppress" as a button, maybe 🤫 would work as an
icon button to mean silence this (aka suppress). 

-- 

Howard

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>>>>> Also, are you sure that show U+26A0 ⚠ is a good idea for the 'symbol'
>>>>> preference?  At least on TTY frames, that character has problems
>>>>> because its glyph is wide, and many terminal emulators have trouble
>>>>> showing it in an Emacs window.
>>>> 
>>>> I tried ⚠ on a tty, and it looks very poor, barely recognizable.
>>>> So need to find a new symbol.
>>> 
>>> ▲ looks more solid on a tty.
>> 
>> But will it be perceived as a warning sign?  It looks just a triangle.
>
> My two cents, and feel free to ignore: maybe just use the exclamation
> mark.  We don’t have to use a “unicode” symbol for the symbol
> category.  “!” conveys the idea and is well supported.

“!” is fine, like in flymake-margin-indicators-string.

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>> * stop using the "warnings-suppress" icon; keep it for
>>   backward-compatibility in case there are out-of-tree users,
>> * insert a new plain "warning" icon (with SVG representation that can
>>   use the 'warning face),
>> * add a text button for suppression.
>
> How about doing that, but without the icon?

The icon helps to draw the user's attention to the warning.
Other IDEs do this, e.g. https://i.sstatic.net/gppvo.jpg

> The icon is problematic on TTY frames, and why do we need it, when the
> text already says "Warning: SOMETHING"?

This is not problematic since 'define-icon' supports many layers.
From (info "(elisp) Icons"):

  If ‘icon-preference’ is ‘(image emoji symbol text)’ (i.e., allowing all of
  these forms of icons), in this case, ‘icon-string’ will first check that
  Emacs is able to display images at all, and then whether it has support
  for each of those different image formats.  If that fails, Emacs will
  check whether Emacs can display emojis (in the current frame).  If that
  fails, it'll check whether it can display the symbol in question.  If
  that fails, it'll use the plain text version.

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