GNU logs - #79053, boring messages

Message sent to bug-automake@HIDDEN:


X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#79053: epsf.tex: New file
Resent-From: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-CC: bug-automake@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2025 20:38:02 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.79053.B.175295748032137 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
X-GNU-PR-Message: report 79053
X-GNU-PR-Package: automake
X-GNU-PR-Keywords: 
To: bruno@HIDDEN
Cc: 79053 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnulib@HIDDEN
X-Debbugs-Original-Cc: bug-automake@HIDDEN, bug-gnulib@HIDDEN
Received: via spool by submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B.175295748032137
          (code B ref -1); Sat, 19 Jul 2025 20:38:02 +0000
Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2025 20:38:00 +0000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45089 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1udEJj-0008MD-Jb
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 16:37:59 -0400
Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:35928)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>)
 id 1udEJh-0008Lm-JZ
 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 16:37:58 -0400
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10])
 by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>)
 id 1udEJM-0001LX-Ae; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 16:37:40 -0400
Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([198.99.81.75] helo=freefriends.org)
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>)
 id 1udEJK-00079T-G0; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 16:37:35 -0400
X-Envelope-From: karl@HIDDEN
Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 56JKbTgT933716
 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT);
 Sat, 19 Jul 2025 14:37:29 -0600
Received: (from apache@localhost)
 by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.14.7/Submit) id 56JKbTcv933715;
 Sat, 19 Jul 2025 14:37:29 -0600
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2025 14:37:29 -0600
Message-Id: <202507192037.56JKbTcv933715@HIDDEN>
From: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <10629133.85pcf5A44T@nimes>
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=198.99.81.75; envelope-from=karl@HIDDEN;
 helo=freefriends.org
X-Spam_score_int: -41
X-Spam_score: -4.2
X-Spam_bar: ----
X-Spam_report: (-4.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3,
 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001,
 SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
X-Spam_action: no action
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

    The Standards reference
      - Makefile targets 'dvi' and 'install-dvi',
      - a variable 'dvidir',
      - a configure option --dvidir.
    All of these would have to be removed.

Although I have no particular initial objection to removing the dvi
stuff from standards.texi, I wouldn't want it to disappear from Automake
and Autoconf.  I expect there are workflows which depend on it (even if
the final .dvi file is hardly ever/never used) and those workflows would
gratuitously break, causing extra work for maintainers to fix something
that already works.

Furthermore, my experience is that as soon as a standard doesn't require
X, implementations will gratuitously remove or loudly "deprecate" X
(viz. egrep/fgrep). So I guess I'm not actually in favor of removing dvi
from the coding standards.

However ... as far as I can tell, the problem in practice is Automake's
make distcheck depending on make dvi, not the mere existence of dvi
stuff in the Makefiles. So how about if we make that a no-op by default?
It can already easily be overridden to test pdf generation instead, as
mentioned in the Automake manual:
  AM_DISTCHECK_DVI_TARGET = pdf

There's a circumlotion mentioned to make it into a no-op, but for this
purpose I'd simply define a new do-nothing target like:

am-no-op:

And then set
  AM_DISTCHECK_DVI_TARGET = am-no-op

Wdyt? --thanks, karl.

Message sent:


Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#79053: Acknowledgement (epsf.tex: New file)
Message-ID: <handler.79053.B.175295748032137.ack <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
References: <202507192037.56JKbTcv933715@HIDDEN>
X-Gnu-PR-Message: ack 79053
X-Gnu-PR-Package: automake
Reply-To: 79053 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2025 20:38:02 +0000

Thank you for filing a new bug report with debbugs.gnu.org.

This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message
has been received.

Your message is being forwarded to the package maintainers and other
interested parties for their attention; they will reply in due course.

Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s):
 bug-automake@HIDDEN

If you wish to submit further information on this problem, please
send it to 79053 <at> debbugs.gnu.org.

Please do not send mail to help-debbugs@HIDDEN unless you wish
to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system.

--=20
79053: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D79053
GNU Bug Tracking System
Contact help-debbugs@HIDDEN with problems

Message received at control <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2025 20:54:37 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 19 16:54:37 2025
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45190 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1udEZp-00016o-3x
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 16:54:37 -0400
Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([198.99.81.75]:40182
 helo=freefriends.org)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>)
 id 1udEZm-00016S-T5
 for control <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 16:54:35 -0400
X-Envelope-From: karl@HIDDEN
X-Envelope-To: <control <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 56JKsXWk935197
 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT)
 for <control <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 14:54:33 -0600
Received: (from apache@localhost)
 by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.14.7/Submit) id 56JKsXNP935196;
 Sat, 19 Jul 2025 14:54:33 -0600
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2025 14:54:33 -0600
Message-Id: <202507192054.56JKsXNP935196@HIDDEN>
From: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN>
To: control <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: 
X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-)

merge 79052 79053

Message sent to bug-automake@HIDDEN:


X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#79053: epsf.tex: New file
Resent-From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-CC: bug-automake@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2025 21:23:02 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.79053.B.175296015824181 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 79053
X-GNU-PR-Package: automake
X-GNU-PR-Keywords: 
To: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN>, bruno@HIDDEN
Cc: 79053 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnulib@HIDDEN
X-Debbugs-Original-Cc: bug-automake@HIDDEN, bug-gnulib@HIDDEN
Received: via spool by submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B.175296015824181
          (code B ref -1); Sat, 19 Jul 2025 21:23:02 +0000
Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2025 21:22:38 +0000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45328 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1udF0v-0006Hw-W3
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 17:22:38 -0400
Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:43650)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>)
 id 1udF0t-0006Ga-IA
 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 17:22:36 -0400
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10])
 by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>)
 id 1udF0X-0005GP-Hl; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 17:22:15 -0400
Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.66])
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>)
 id 1udF0V-00051E-3p; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 17:22:12 -0400
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5FB13C0149D7;
 Sat, 19 Jul 2025 14:22:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10032) with ESMTP
 id 7AMYFyAYe0-L; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 14:22:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D8423C0149E2;
 Sat, 19 Jul 2025 14:22:09 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mail.cs.ucla.edu 9D8423C0149E2
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs.ucla.edu;
 s=9D0B346E-2AEB-11ED-9476-E14B719DCE6C; t=1752960129;
 bh=MLbJDbIqdthhFcPaS7+2XgHtqcLbQmFgIk0MaSfICVA=;
 h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:To:From;
 b=UbVbz9NSzFMgbFSTeq4FEOOaPBjWBMUF9j3vjVMGTVo2D2PBu29QXncBl8BCTGWuL
 0Re3/eJGr8HPdILuUr4M5eZWluT3GMp5KaAvdhvrTAToESaTdWollbyPtEXlN260qJ
 v5XlIlXtVL8nTjLSrxnO4R8z1Nk6obNKKEXKWVU4nFnxCyMj9/pAXl5de3bpaK1bXp
 TPOti5R1y/xVGzUMtGbimGMq3YF6H9eqqNUVqbwFyFhhtQd9E5d47Bt3pRz9MnuiDL
 kGRXxY16S1Sh33MJOSZ98+eyyXvTWINlGMzWEF8YrMdRno5Hxclj2c5YAiXUC82oJi
 pKVIFw6kNWbjA==
X-Virus-Scanned: amavis at mail.cs.ucla.edu
Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10026) with ESMTP
 id qOYFam1laIx2; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 14:22:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (unknown [47.154.30.222])
 by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7C98C3C0149D7;
 Sat, 19 Jul 2025 14:22:09 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <8a3cd93f-cac6-49b8-b470-3e0e31fc5bb1@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2025 14:22:09 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
References: <202507192037.56JKbTcv933715@HIDDEN>
Content-Language: en-US
From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
In-Reply-To: <202507192037.56JKbTcv933715@HIDDEN>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=131.179.128.66; envelope-from=eggert@HIDDEN;
 helo=mail.cs.ucla.edu
X-Spam_score_int: -19
X-Spam_score: -2.0
X-Spam_bar: --
X-Spam_report: (-2.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1,
 DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001,
 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001,
 SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
X-Spam_action: no action
X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+)
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/)

On 2025-07-19 13:37, Karl Berry wrote:
> However ... as far as I can tell, the problem in practice is Automake's
> make distcheck depending on make dvi, not the mere existence of dvi
> stuff in the Makefiles. So how about if we make that a no-op by default?

Works for me, but don't we need to change the GNU coding standards to do 
even that?

Message received at control <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2025 21:47:55 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 19 17:47:55 2025
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45484 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1udFPP-0008Q3-5g
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 17:47:55 -0400
Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([198.99.81.75]:57650
 helo=freefriends.org)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>)
 id 1udFPM-0008Pg-Jj
 for control <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 17:47:53 -0400
X-Envelope-From: karl@HIDDEN
X-Envelope-To: <control <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 56JLloVJ939392
 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT)
 for <control <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 15:47:50 -0600
Received: (from apache@localhost)
 by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.14.7/Submit) id 56JLloUx939391;
 Sat, 19 Jul 2025 15:47:50 -0600
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2025 15:47:50 -0600
Message-Id: <202507192147.56JLloUx939391@HIDDEN>
From: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN>
To: control <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: 
X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-)

merge 79052 79054
Last modified: Sat, 19 Jul 2025 22:00:02 UTC

GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.