Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2025 21:22:38 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 19 17:22:38 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45328 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1udF0v-0006Hw-W3 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 17:22:38 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:43650) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1udF0t-0006Ga-IA for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 17:22:36 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1udF0X-0005GP-Hl; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 17:22:15 -0400 Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1udF0V-00051E-3p; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 17:22:12 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5FB13C0149D7; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 14:22:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10032) with ESMTP id 7AMYFyAYe0-L; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 14:22:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D8423C0149E2; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 14:22:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mail.cs.ucla.edu 9D8423C0149E2 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs.ucla.edu; s=9D0B346E-2AEB-11ED-9476-E14B719DCE6C; t=1752960129; bh=MLbJDbIqdthhFcPaS7+2XgHtqcLbQmFgIk0MaSfICVA=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:To:From; b=UbVbz9NSzFMgbFSTeq4FEOOaPBjWBMUF9j3vjVMGTVo2D2PBu29QXncBl8BCTGWuL 0Re3/eJGr8HPdILuUr4M5eZWluT3GMp5KaAvdhvrTAToESaTdWollbyPtEXlN260qJ v5XlIlXtVL8nTjLSrxnO4R8z1Nk6obNKKEXKWVU4nFnxCyMj9/pAXl5de3bpaK1bXp TPOti5R1y/xVGzUMtGbimGMq3YF6H9eqqNUVqbwFyFhhtQd9E5d47Bt3pRz9MnuiDL kGRXxY16S1Sh33MJOSZ98+eyyXvTWINlGMzWEF8YrMdRno5Hxclj2c5YAiXUC82oJi pKVIFw6kNWbjA== X-Virus-Scanned: amavis at mail.cs.ucla.edu Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10026) with ESMTP id qOYFam1laIx2; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 14:22:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (unknown [47.154.30.222]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7C98C3C0149D7; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 14:22:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8a3cd93f-cac6-49b8-b470-3e0e31fc5bb1@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2025 14:22:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: epsf.tex: New file To: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN>, bruno@HIDDEN References: <202507192037.56JKbTcv933715@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department In-Reply-To: <202507192037.56JKbTcv933715@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=131.179.128.66; envelope-from=eggert@HIDDEN; helo=mail.cs.ucla.edu X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: bug-automake@HIDDEN, bug-gnulib@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) On 2025-07-19 13:37, Karl Berry wrote: > However ... as far as I can tell, the problem in practice is Automake's > make distcheck depending on make dvi, not the mere existence of dvi > stuff in the Makefiles. So how about if we make that a no-op by default? Works for me, but don't we need to change the GNU coding standards to do even that?
bug-automake@HIDDEN:bug#79053; Package automake.
Full text available.Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.
Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2025 20:38:00 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 19 16:37:59 2025
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45089 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
id 1udEJj-0008MD-Jb
for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 16:37:59 -0400
Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:35928)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
(Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>)
id 1udEJh-0008Lm-JZ
for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 16:37:58 -0400
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10])
by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
(Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>)
id 1udEJM-0001LX-Ae; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 16:37:40 -0400
Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([198.99.81.75] helo=freefriends.org)
by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
(Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>)
id 1udEJK-00079T-G0; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 16:37:35 -0400
X-Envelope-From: karl@HIDDEN
Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 56JKbTgT933716
(version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT);
Sat, 19 Jul 2025 14:37:29 -0600
Received: (from apache@localhost)
by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.14.7/Submit) id 56JKbTcv933715;
Sat, 19 Jul 2025 14:37:29 -0600
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2025 14:37:29 -0600
Message-Id: <202507192037.56JKbTcv933715@HIDDEN>
From: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN>
To: bruno@HIDDEN
Subject: Re: epsf.tex: New file
In-Reply-To: <10629133.85pcf5A44T@nimes>
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=198.99.81.75; envelope-from=karl@HIDDEN;
helo=freefriends.org
X-Spam_score_int: -41
X-Spam_score: -4.2
X-Spam_bar: ----
X-Spam_report: (-4.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3,
RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001,
SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
X-Spam_action: no action
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit
Cc: bug-automake@HIDDEN, bug-gnulib@HIDDEN
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>,
<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>,
<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)
The Standards reference
- Makefile targets 'dvi' and 'install-dvi',
- a variable 'dvidir',
- a configure option --dvidir.
All of these would have to be removed.
Although I have no particular initial objection to removing the dvi
stuff from standards.texi, I wouldn't want it to disappear from Automake
and Autoconf. I expect there are workflows which depend on it (even if
the final .dvi file is hardly ever/never used) and those workflows would
gratuitously break, causing extra work for maintainers to fix something
that already works.
Furthermore, my experience is that as soon as a standard doesn't require
X, implementations will gratuitously remove or loudly "deprecate" X
(viz. egrep/fgrep). So I guess I'm not actually in favor of removing dvi
from the coding standards.
However ... as far as I can tell, the problem in practice is Automake's
make distcheck depending on make dvi, not the mere existence of dvi
stuff in the Makefiles. So how about if we make that a no-op by default?
It can already easily be overridden to test pdf generation instead, as
mentioned in the Automake manual:
AM_DISTCHECK_DVI_TARGET = pdf
There's a circumlotion mentioned to make it into a no-op, but for this
purpose I'd simply define a new do-nothing target like:
am-no-op:
And then set
AM_DISTCHECK_DVI_TARGET = am-no-op
Wdyt? --thanks, karl.
Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN>:bug-automake@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-automake@HIDDEN:bug#79053; Package automake.
Full text available.
GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham,
1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd,
1994-97 Ian Jackson.