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From: Collin Funk <collin.funk1@HIDDEN>
To: Bernhard Gabler via GNU coreutils Bug Reports <bug-coreutils@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79896: [coreutils] printf deficiencies
In-Reply-To: <6c35ea05-8c81-404e-8a2a-d9bc4fdc1cda@HIDDEN>
References: <6c35ea05-8c81-404e-8a2a-d9bc4fdc1cda@HIDDEN>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2025 12:57:08 -0800
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Hi Bernhard,
Bernhard Gabler via GNU coreutils Bug Reports <bug-coreutils@HIDDEN>
writes:
> Hello,
>
> today I noticed the following deficiencies in implementation and
> documentation of printf:
>
> (1)
> Built-in help (/usr/bin/printf --help)
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 entirely fails to mention the option --.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This is even more surprising, as an error message explicitly
> points to the built-in help when that option is used without any
> additional parameters:
>
> $/usr/bin/printf --
> printf: missing operand
> Try '/usr/bin/printf --help' for more information.
>
> (2)
> man page=C2=A0 (commonly: /usr/share/man/man1/printf.1.gz)
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is missing any mention (lest description) of the option --.
>
>
> (3)
> Online-Documentation
> (https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/printf-invocatio=
n.html#printf-invocation)
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is missing any mention (lest description) of the option --.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Though at the end of that documentation page, it says:
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "The only options are a lone --help or --vers=
ion. See Common
> options
> <https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/Common-options.h=
tml>.
> Options must precede operands."
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Now seeing that only three "Common options" do exist, it do=
es not
> seem to make sense that the printf page explicitly mentions only two
> of them=C2=A0 ( --help=C2=A0, --version=C2=A0=C2=A0) but not the third=C2=
=A0( -- ).
>
>
> Obviously, these deficiencies exist in all languages/translations.
This is a POSIX requirement for programs. Copying their words here [1]:
Guideline 10:
The first -- argument that is not an option-argument should be
accepted as a delimiter indicating the end of options. Any
following arguments should be treated as operands, even if they
begin with the '-' character.
A common use of this is to delete file names that start with the "-"
character. We have an example like this in the manual under the 'rm'
command:
$ ls -- -f
-f
$ rm -f
$ ls -- -f
-f
$ rm -- -f
$ ls -- -f
ls: cannot access '-f': No such file or directory
Collin
[1] https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9799919799/basedefs/V1_chap12.htm=
l#tag_12_02
bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:bug#79896; Package coreutils.
Full text available.
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From: Collin Funk <collin.funk1@HIDDEN>
To: Bernhard Gabler via GNU coreutils Bug Reports <bug-coreutils@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79896: [coreutils] printf deficiencies
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Content preview: Hi Bernhard, Bernhard Gabler via GNU coreutils Bug Reports
writes: > Hello, > > today I noticed the following deficiencies in implementation
and > documentation of printf: > > (1) > Built-in help (/usr/bin/printf --help)
> > entirely fails to mention the option [...]
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Hi Bernhard,
Bernhard Gabler via GNU coreutils Bug Reports <bug-coreutils@HIDDEN>
writes:
> Hello,
>
> today I noticed the following deficiencies in implementation and
> documentation of printf:
>
> (1)
> Built-in help (/usr/bin/printf --help)
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 entirely fails to mention the option --.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This is even more surprising, as an error message explicitly
> points to the built-in help when that option is used without any
> additional parameters:
>
> $/usr/bin/printf --
> printf: missing operand
> Try '/usr/bin/printf --help' for more information.
>
> (2)
> man page=C2=A0 (commonly: /usr/share/man/man1/printf.1.gz)
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is missing any mention (lest description) of the option --.
>
>
> (3)
> Online-Documentation
> (https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/printf-invocatio=
n.html#printf-invocation)
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is missing any mention (lest description) of the option --.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Though at the end of that documentation page, it says:
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "The only options are a lone --help or --vers=
ion. See Common
> options
> <https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/Common-options.h=
tml>.
> Options must precede operands."
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Now seeing that only three "Common options" do exist, it do=
es not
> seem to make sense that the printf page explicitly mentions only two
> of them=C2=A0 ( --help=C2=A0, --version=C2=A0=C2=A0) but not the third=C2=
=A0( -- ).
>
>
> Obviously, these deficiencies exist in all languages/translations.
This is a POSIX requirement for programs. Copying their words here [1]:
Guideline 10:
The first -- argument that is not an option-argument should be
accepted as a delimiter indicating the end of options. Any
following arguments should be treated as operands, even if they
begin with the '-' character.
A common use of this is to delete file names that start with the "-"
character. We have an example like this in the manual under the 'rm'
command:
$ ls -- -f
-f
$ rm -f
$ ls -- -f
-f
$ rm -- -f
$ ls -- -f
ls: cannot access '-f': No such file or directory
Collin
[1] https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9799919799/basedefs/V1_chap12.htm=
l#tag_12_02
bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:bug#79896; Package coreutils.
Full text available.
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From: Bernhard Gabler <bernhard_gabler@HIDDEN>
Subject: [coreutils] printf deficiencies
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------ZxX5BB2vTHX0H4LtWsepHuHu
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
today I noticed the following deficiencies in implementation and=20
documentation of printf:
(1)
Built-in help (/usr/bin/printf --help)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 entirely fails to mention the option --.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This is even more surprising, as an error message explicitl=
y points=20
to the built-in help when that option is used without any additional=20
parameters:
$/usr/bin/printf --
printf: missing operand
Try '/usr/bin/printf --help' for more information.
(2)
man page=C2=A0 (commonly: /usr/share/man/man1/printf.1.gz)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 is missing any mention (lest description) of the option --.
(3)
Online-Documentation=20
(https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/printf-invocation=
.html#printf-invocation)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 is missing any mention (lest description) of the option --.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Though at the end of that documentation page, it says:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "The only options are a lone --help or --vers=
ion. See Common=20
options=20
<https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/Common-options.ht=
ml>.=20
Options must precede operands."
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Now seeing that only three "Common options" do exist, it do=
es not=20
seem to make sense that the printf page explicitly mentions only two of=20
them=C2=A0 ( --help=C2=A0, --version=C2=A0=C2=A0) but not the third=C2=A0(=
-- ).
Obviously, these deficiencies exist in all languages/translations.
Regards,
Bernhard
--------------ZxX5BB2vTHX0H4LtWsepHuHu
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF-=
8">
</head>
<body>
<p>Hello,</p>
<p>today I noticed the following deficiencies in implementation and
documentation of printf:=C2=A0</p>
<p>(1)<br>
Built-in help (<span style=3D"font-family:monospace"><span
style=3D"color:#000000;background-color:#ffffff;">/usr/bin/print=
f
--help</span></span>)</p>
<p>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 entirely fails to mention the option=C2=A0<span
style=3D"font-family:monospace"><span
style=3D"color:#000000;background-color:#ffffff;">--</span></spa=
n>.=C2=A0<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This is even more surprising, as an error message expl=
icitly
points to the built-in help when that option is used without any
additional parameters:</p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:monospace"><span
style=3D"font-weight:bold;color:#54ff54;background-color:#ffffff;">$</span=
><span
style=3D"color:#000000;background-color:#ffffff;">
/usr/bin/printf --</span><span
style=3D"color:#000000;background-color:#ffffff;">
</span><br>
<span style=3D"color:#000000;background-color:#ffffff;">printf:
missing operand</span><span
style=3D"color:#000000;background-color:#ffffff;">
</span><br>
<span style=3D"color:#000000;background-color:#ffffff;">Try
'/usr/bin/printf --help' for more information.</span><br>
</span>
<br>
</p>
<p>(2)<br>
man page=C2=A0 (commonly:=C2=A0=C2=A0
<span style=3D"font-family:monospace"><span
style=3D"color:#000000;background-color:#ffffff;">/usr/share</sp=
an><span
style=3D"color:#000000;background-color:#ffffff;">/man/man1/prin=
tf.1.gz</span></span>)</p>
<p>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 is missing any mention (lest description) of the opti=
on=C2=A0=C2=A0<span
style=3D"font-family:monospace"><span
style=3D"color:#000000;background-color:#ffffff;">--</span></spa=
n>.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>(3)<br>
Online-Documentation (<span style=3D"font-family:monospace"><span
style=3D"color:#000000;background-color:#ffffff;"><a class=3D"mo=
z-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual=
/html_node/printf-invocation.html#printf-invocation">https://www.gnu.org/s=
oftware/coreutils/manual/html_node/printf-invocation.html#printf-invocatio=
n</a></span></span>)</p>
<p>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 is missing any mention (lest description) of the opti=
on=C2=A0=C2=A0<span
style=3D"font-family:monospace"><span
style=3D"color:#000000;background-color:#ffffff;">--</span></spa=
n>.</p>
<p>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Though at the end of that documentation page, it says=
:</p>
<p>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "The only options are a lone <samp clas=
s=3D"option">--help</samp>
or
<samp class=3D"option">--version</samp>. See <a class=3D"xref"
href=3D"https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/Common-opt=
ions.html">Common
options</a>.
Options must precede operands."</p>
<p>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Now seeing that only three "Common options" do exist,=
it does
not seem to make sense that the printf page explicitly mentions
only two of them=C2=A0 ( <samp class=3D"option">--help</samp>=C2=A0,=
=C2=A0<samp
class=3D"option">--version</samp>=C2=A0=C2=A0) but not the third=
=C2=A0( <samp
class=3D"option">--</samp> ).</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Obviously, these deficiencies exist in all
languages/translations.</p>
<p>Regards,<br>
Bernhard</p>
</body>
</html>
--------------ZxX5BB2vTHX0H4LtWsepHuHu--
Bernhard Gabler <bernhard_gabler@HIDDEN>:bug-coreutils@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:bug#79896; Package coreutils.
Full text available.
GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham,
1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd,
1994-97 Ian Jackson.